BH BH7 Suspect #5: Psychic Surge - Voter Identification & Discussion

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E4 Flint

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
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Source, and Willdbeast/ScarfWynaut
​
What?
I am beginning a suspect on Psychic Surge, as per discussion in the Suspect Thread (see more below)

Why?
(Link to announcement)
Psychic Surge has been brought up many times in the past due to its ability to block priority status and damaging attacks, providing support for the entire team at a small price of being forced to run it as an ability on a teamslot. This was offset by the fact that it also powered up Psychic power which helped the two MegaMewtwo powerhouses. However, the new addition of Photon Geyser in USUM, a move that ignores abilities while offering MewtwoMegaX a powerful new STAB to rival or even exceed the power of Psystrike has driven it to the point of being suspected now.

Here is a small sample from the Suspect Thread:
How?
  • We will be using the new suspect process laid out by Zarel here(aka no COIL). I already did not support game limits so that shouldn't be an issue.
    Therefore the requirements simply are 78 GXE with at least 35 games.
  • Do so by making a new alt with the sequence"psy" in it anywhere, but not separated.
PsychicHologram ✓
PastryHologram X
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  • I will also hold a mini contest, where the alt I like the most will also be given a shoutout during the final announcement in the BH Discord and the voting thread on Smogon
There have been some questions asking why do I require having a prefix for a Suspect Ladder. While I have plenty of reasons, the key one that should matter is that if you don't have an alt with one with reqs, you can't vote/I won't count your vote.

Where?
You must post your proof of reqs in this thread and play your games on the main pokemonshowdown.com sim. A new Balanced Hackmons (suspect) ladder shall be created for this suspect. Psychic Surge will be BANNED on the Suspect Ladder

Do:
  • Post your proof and, if you wish, your stance on the matter, in this thread. Read the following CAREFULLY on how to do so:
    • you MUST FIRST AND FOREMOST PROVIDE AN IMAGE OF THE ALT WITH PROOF OF OWNERSHIP. I can't stress that last part enough. Refer to these examples of how to do this: example1example2example3
      • If you don't do at least the above, your vote won't be counted
  • Post in this thread if you have any questions about THIS SUSPECT PROCESS
Do NOT:
  • Post your stance on the matter in this thread without proof. (Why? Post in the main suspect thread instead)
  • Post anything in this thread unrelated to this suspect (with or without proof)
When?
This suspect period will last 2 weeks, till 11:59PM march 5th (EST). I will try to begin the voting immediately after confirming some other details on how it will be done.

GLHF!
  • 78 GXE after 35 games
  • "Psy" alt with image proof IN THIS THREAD
  • Psychic Surge BANNED on Suspect Ladder
  • Ending March 5th
Tagging The Immortal​
 
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my pro tip: if you're 31-5 with 77% gxe, just stop before you go on a losing streak.

Also, 78% is doable but it is a little high I think. I was one win away from the reqs at 31 wins, and I didn't get them until 19 wins later. Seems a little crazy.

Edit: proof of record, sorry.
 
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something in this thread unrelated to this suspect
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i'm still undecided so if you make a good post for either side it could win my vote
 
Finally i do it , a lot of hax and miss . Sry for the people i flame :)


Do not ban psychic surge =)
 
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tzop said:
Finally i do it , a lot of hax and miss . Sry for the people i flame :)


Do not ban psychic surge =)
Click to expand...
I've already said this to one person and 3 posts later it happens again but:
E4 Flint said:
you MUST FIRST AND FOREMOST PROVIDE AN IMAGE OF THE ALT WITH PROOF OF OWNERSHIP. I can't stress that last part enough. Refer to these examples of how to do this:
Click to expand...
It's literally in bold underlined...
 
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Late 4 game losing-streak had me grind 15 extra games vs people who needlessly stall for 200 turns... Aside from that, it was pretty fun playing without psysurge even though I had to build a new team because all my previous ones abused it.

E: typo, also s/o to GL Volkner for the god set that is Chompy, the Land Shark
 
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i really enjoy this psy-surge free meta because now i don't have to run either solgaleo or mmy on every team and i still win when i don't get hax'd by bad teams or my own rust
spaghetti everywhere
 
Double post but I did it

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This team is starting to grow on me

Mega Diancie sweeps and can occasionally beat imposter. Mind Blown pressures Prankster so you just need to beat Flash Fire, Chansey is imposter but also imposter-proofs Diancie on a soft switch. Dialga handles Audino and Xerneas, and I opted for Spectral Thief just because it's a good user of it. This move is interchangeable with Stealth Rock. Megabro beats almost all -Ates and can switch into some MMX variants that are less creative. It's also nice team glue for physical attackers in general. Mega Rayquaza deals with non-APS offense and is hard to switch into with team support. Yveltal is the backup Mega Gengar check in case Dialga fails and has Rapid Spin + Revelation Dance to both force out spinblockers and have a spammable move against stall.

No Psysurge is nice so far, but no one is abusing DQM like I anticipated. For this reason, -Ate has been a very good answer to offense for me, since Mega Rayquaza can still put in work with Lonely/Naughty Sky Plate Fakespeed. This team still struggles with setup spam though, especially the type of setup spam that has -Ate in mind.
 
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Ok I'm gonna state my position on psychic surge and the suspect now.
The battles I fought against competent people demonstrated me some things.

First we have -ate vs full EV meta. While Boomburst is basically unaffected by the suspect, everything neutral to -ate is never 2HKOed by fakespeed. Meanwhile MMY is still totally capable of OHKOing every -ate user with appropriate coverage or just specs Psycho Boost, really. -ate isn't a check to MMY, not even without terrain. -ate fakespeed can at best revenge kill something weakened, but so does a scarf boomburst, or just a scarf. -ate fakespeed isn't really good.

Second we have MMY. MMY still wins most 1 vs 1 without Psychic Surge. Try adapt MMY; it has less but similar power to surge MMY, and in a meta where checks to MMY are less numerous (since it has one less set) it is possible to catch the enemy off guard. And while one of its best set is currently banned, there are still a lot of effective sets, and then a lot of unconventional, usable sets, each one with its powerful niche. (Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, Contrary and Magic Guard are the effective ones, -ate Boomburst, No Guard, Merciless, Adaptability and Illusion are unconventional). MMY is still quite good.

Third we have MMX. I've never seen MMX running something other than contrary. MMX isn't really viable now.

Then, Prankster. Encore and Topsy Turvy are finally viable again against set up. But Haze + Destiny Bond were still sufficient. The threat of imposter also discourages setting up at all. Not to mention that Encore and Topsy Turvy are pointless if the target is a Dark type. It only happened once that a Dark type (Yveltal) tried to set up on me (and I had Prankster Giratina with Encore as a blanket check to set up). But it ended up being fakespeeded by a Diancie, and the terrain wouldn't have helped. Checking setup isn't hindered by psychic surge. To be more accurate, being prepared to check set up hoping that anti priority isn't in play is a bad idea, even without psychic surge, because what if the opponent it's a dark type or running Dazzling?

Dazzling and Queenly Majesty. To be honest I only saw that once. It doesn't support the team. It isn't undetectable like it was in the past; Imposter can scout it without wasting moves. It can be mold broken (mostly irrelevant, ok). The meta has the options to circumvent APS without losing against something else. It doesn't have an exact utility. If the team of the opponent is built to fully work against anti-priority, the ability is 100% pointless.

I'd also like to remember that psychic terrain works both ways. No one can use priority. Even if you are playing stall, you'll appreciate that time when Diancie couldn't sweep through your team because your almost dead Prankster Registeel was safe from Diancie's fakespeed acting before priority recovery.

The only real problem we had with surge was MMX with Adaptability under Psychic Terrain using Photon Geyser to break past Fur Coat.
It is simple team support, yet extremely threatening as it forced people to bring Mega Bro (2hkoed by moongeist beam), Mega Sableye (2hkoed by Fleur Cannon factored the SpA drop OR 2hkoed by V-create with chances of OHKO when banded), Cresselia or Lugia (beyond dealing with MMX/Y they are terrible. If they aren't running fur coat or max speed, banded V-create 2hkoes) to wall it. And it is not even impossible to pull that off again because nothing stops something to set up terrain with the move (maybe with the extender) and unleash the very same thing, except this time the meta isn't prepared. While this is of course less rewarding, the problem isn't addressed.

Psychic Surge isn't the problem. MMY isn't the problem. MMX is a problem when you stack adapt, psychic surge and photon geyser (otherwise fur coat is an effective check and there would not be problems). Remove one of them and there is no problem. But does it needs to be psychic surge?

Banning Psychic Surge is a bad idea. It's a returning to gen 6.

Do not ban Psychic Surge.

EDIT: corrected some stuff.
 
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