FREE ILLU :)
*pauses circlejerking* sorry, what did you say?I just want to point out that despite what the out of context screenshot Storm Eagle shared might make you think, the OM discord isn't a circlejerk where allegedly "good" players mass collaborate on a ban. We welcome different opinions and love to discuss in a more casual setting.
The OM Discord is something better than that. Many players can gather there to build new teams and to discuss anything about BH, be it their team or advice on the metagame in general. I don't believe the screenshot was out of context; I wanted to show that the opinions are generally pro-ban.I just want to point out that despite what the out of context screenshot Storm Eagle shared might make you think, the OM discord isn't a circlejerk where allegedly "good" players mass collaborate on a ban. We welcome different opinions and love to discuss in a more casual setting.
TL:DR; I yell my opinion at people because I think my opinion is right.I refute the arguments because I feel some of them have one-sided or biased arguments and that I hope that in doing so they may reconsider their Do Not Ban vote. But even though there may be a 'bad argument', there's no such thing as a 'bad opinion'. The voters can do what they want as they earned their vote, however I did respond in hopes that they would consider voting Ban because I believed the ability was broken and uncompetitive.
This is a blatant straw man of Storm Eagle and an ad hominem that doesn't really help your argument too much. First of all, of course he would think that his opinion is right, that's the definition of an opinion. However, I don't believe that he is yelling at anti-ban players, he's simply reasoning everything out to try and convince them to see Illusion from a different perspective.TL:DR; I yell my opinion at people because I think my opinion is right.
That's... a really outdated internet arguing ideology that doesn't work anymore, if it ever has.
now the first of these criteria doesn't really apply for illusion, because it isn't a matchup based thing more than anything else. for example, if you're using ho-oh as your mega diancie switchin, there's functionally no difference between dying to cb illusion mmx photon geyser and dying to head smash from mg diancie matchup-wise. this criterion could apply for some other things in the meta (if people can legitimately get x-1/x-0 records for suspects, there's likely an uncompetitive element in play), but i won't be getting into that here.Uncompetitive - elements that reduce the effect of player choice / interaction on the end result to an extreme degree, such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant.
- This can be matchup related; think the determination that Baton Pass took the battling skill aspect out of the player's hands and made it overwhelmingly a team matchup issue, where even the best moves made each time by a standard team often were not enough.
- This can be external factors; think Endless Battle Clause, where the determining factor became internet connection over playing skill.
- This can be probability management issues; think OHKOs, evasion, or Moody, all of which turned the battle from emphasizing battling skill to emphasizing the result of the RNG more often than not.
Friendly reminder that just because this does not seem like as big of an issue as Contrary or a Sleep Clause is not a reason to vote Do Not Ban. If you truly feel those are problems then you can post about them in the Bans thread. We should focus exclusively on Illusion right now and I feel like redirecting the attention towards things that appear more broken at first glance is not something we should do in this thread.
I use Illusion too and I know the ability is broken first-hand. If you need an argument, go ahead and read my initial post on the matter. Illusion can be used to eliminate checks to the thing you are disguising as, as you can use a strong Pokemon like Mega Gengar and you can pick what you disguise as, then you can force the opponent to switch (as no one will stay in on a -Ate Mega Diancie with most Pokemon) and you have a legitimate chance at 2HKOing most things in the tier due to this, and when your opponent's Mega Diancie switch-in is damaged severely, it'll likely just fall to a FakeSpeed combo or a Boomburst and then the odds of winning are on your side.
Contrary is difficult to improof and there are abilities and other means to prevent Sleep. Illusion does not have a drawback at all. It even prevents Imposter from transforming into your Pokemon so it makes for a ridiculously easy improof with Red Orb Groudon.
You know full well Imposter isn't the only reason to use Illusion. It's a primary reason on setup sweepers, but setup sweepers are not consistent of all of the viable Illusion Pokemon. Illusion is still fundamentally an ability which is intended to make your opponent misplay on purpose to get yourself an advantage. That is broken. Why? Because I've said it about fourteen times or more. If you can eliminate a check to one of your wincons through Illusion by forcing your opponent to make a misplay, then your chances of winning skyrocket.I strongly believe because illusion counterplays imposter so "perfectly" is why most persons thinks its over powered which is why we are here with this suspeect. If the only way to beat an ability is with imposter or some convoluted improof, then that should be worthy of suspecting not illusion ie contrary.
Just as a fair note, I rarely use Imposter and can immediately recognize Illusions strengths. One turn is all you need to turn the tide, and often times you can make your opponent switch out so it's technically two or three turns even.Illusion is a gamble all the time, it may work one time but after the 1st, the opponent will be on their guard. Its only overpowered to persons who like to switch in imposter on everything or rely heavily on "safe" walls.