BH BH8 Suspect #1 - Shedinja - Voter ID and Information

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E4 Flint

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shed.jpg

Source
What?
BH Council is beginning a suspect on Shedinja as per discussion in the Balanced Hackmons Thread (see below)

Why?
(Discussion on it began here)
Recap/Summary on the presence of Shedinja
  • Longstanding feature of BH, Shedinja is primarily known for its (in)famous Sturdy Shedinja set that allows it to tank most damaging moves from its opponents
  • Due to the above, it has shown itself as an extremely effective momentum gainer. When armed with Endeavor, it almost mandates the use of a Ghost type switch in, which causes it to be able to force out other threats that can't hurt it very easily while pivoting to something that can punish the new switch in heavily. This ability to warp gameplay around it has led to many deeming it overpowered.
  • While Gen 7 has introduced the "mold moves" (Moongeist Beam, Sunsteel Strike, Photon Geyser) that allows the user to ignore Shedinja's ability, oftentimes it is easy to stall their low PP
  • Otherwise to defeat it, hazards, status moves, passive damage from weather, partial trapping or residual damage like Leech Seed are usually required. Mold Breaker and its sister abilities also do the job
    • As mentioned before, these become almost necessary to run and there is a further problem that if only a limited portion of your team that is dedicated to eliminating Shed is removed early, Shedinja can often win the endgame purely because the opponent has nothing else left to threaten it
  • Meanwhile, Gen 7 has also introduced the item Protective Pads which allows Shedinja to be able to use its stab U-turn or Endeavor to deal moderate to extreme damage with impunity, without having to worry about common held items like Rocky Helmet that was previously used to check it fairly easily
  • Generation 8 also introduced Heavy Duty Boots that allows Shedinja to avoid hazards on switch in, while simultaneously removing Pursuit (one of the few surefire ways to eliminate Shedinja with Mold Breaker) and a variety of previously viable Ghost switch-ins (chiefly Giratina)
  • Because of this extreme success, there have also been a small number of lure Shedinja sets, such as -ate Sheds to hit Ghost types on the switch in, or Magic Bounce and others to lure walls designed to just set hazards or status it
How?
  • We will be using the new suspect process laid out by Zarel here(aka no COIL). I already did not support game limits so that shouldn't be an issue.
    Therefore the requirements simply are 83 GXE with at least 40 games.
  • Do so by making a new alt with the sequence "SHED" in it anywhere, but not separated.
  • The alt must have a creation date on or after January 10, 2019
ShedSkinHologram ✓
ShellshockedHologram X
  • I will also hold a mini contest, where the alt I like the most will also be given a shoutout during the final announcement in the BH Discord (and maybe even a custom role) and the voting thread on Smogon
I have several reasons: allows me to eyeball ladder/room for suspect activity for future suspect tweaks, lets people know who are participating in suspect/raises awareness, etc. However, the key one that should matter is that if you don't have an alt with one with reqs, you can't vote/I won't count your vote.
NEW! The rest of smogon seems to now agree with me and this seems to be how most suspects are done now! Wouldn't you believe it..
Where?
You must post your proof of reqs in this thread and play your games on the main pokemonshowdown.com sim.

Shedinja will be in effect in the ladder for the duration of this suspect; I would recommend using it as much as you can to get a feel of how it is in the meta and have a good idea of it is broken, or if its a piece of its common sets, or if it is perfectly manageable after all.

Do:
  • Post your proof and, if you wish, your stance on the matter briefly, in this thread. Read the following CAREFULLY on how to do so:
    • you MUST FIRST AND FOREMOST PROVIDE AN IMAGE OF THE ALT WITH PROOF OF OWNERSHIP. I can't stress that last part enough. Refer to these examples of how to do this: example1example2example3
      • If you don't do at least the above, your vote won't be counted. I will be very strict about this.
  • Post in this thread if you have any questions about THIS SUSPECT PROCESS
Do NOT:
  • Post your stance in detail on the matter in this thread without proof. (Why? Post in the main suspect thread instead)
  • Post anything in this thread unrelated to this suspect (with or without proof)
When?
This suspect period will last until 11:59PM Friday, January 24, 2019 (<-this link will show how much time is left). I will try to begin the voting immediately after confirming some other details on how it will be done and posting the Voter Id Thread similar to past suspects.

GLHF!
---
TLDR?
 
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Chazm

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ladder taught me nothing about this mon - but the strain on the builder is way too strong. ban this thing
https://pokepast.es/b0635fcad6c37e3e - this was the team I used for reqs. the main weaknesses are specs kyu and secret sword lun / dw. other issues can be that sf etern may not reliably be able to set spikes and this means that residual damage can be tough to get up in some matchups.
 
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Funbot28

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I will be flamed for this but whatev its just an opinion. Will be voting No Ban. While I agree that Shed is a nuisance this gen due to the flexibility of it's item slot potentially enabling it to circumvent some form of dealing with it (Boots with hazards, Ppads with anti-contact moves, and sometimes Goggles for weather residual damage), I still feel that Shed can't always perform it's role as a catch all check to many wallbreakers / defensive mons that people make it out to be. A lot of teams carry means to deal with Shed nowadays, and I feel this gen the importance of checking Shed is set to a higher importance due to the decreased power creep compared to previous gens. Whether it be through the moldy moves, Koff + Hazards, status, weather, etc, Shed will always face some form of potential counterplay one way or another despite the item it carries. This may fall in line with a level of over-centralization of course, but from what I can gather thus far, I feel Shed just offers another precaution in the teambuilding phase no different from other threats such as Zekrom, Zacian-C, Darmanitan-G, and other miscellaneous threats, one that requires even more risk to run given the nature of it's fragility. Albeit, having a great payoff if used carefully, I still feel Shed provides a competitive aspect to the tier that differs from the notion of it being a "braindead" addition to any team as one does need to build around it moreso then most "offensive wallbreakers / pivots" in the tier imo.

Now I will proceed to crawl in my hole as the rocks come flying my way lol.

edit: team i used cause i wanna be like the cool kids: https://pokepast.es/7db176ac6ca17cf8
 
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Trolled a bit by the end and forfeited a pair of boring matches.

I didn't get a lot of info on Shedinja itself as I'd have liked to have. It seems really nice to improof some sets and definitely has the potential to claim a kill before you realize how to exploit it, be it rocky helmet, hazards, status... It strains the building quite a bit and even more the playing imo and with the addition of heavy duty boots its versatility is through the roof. Will be keeping an eye on the arguments here and look over the bh thread before making my vote.

The Team
 
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barely saw any shed while i was getting my reqs, but that hasn't really changed my opinion on it. the way it constrains teambuilding is unreasonable and its ability to create momentum is unmatched. i'll be voting to ban shedinja.

i mainly used this team while laddering, but i also played a few matches each with this and this. vaporeon fucking sucks btw
 
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Preventing and Treating Teen Shedinja Usage

If your child uses Shedinja, there are steps you can take to stop the problem. If your child doesn't use Shedinja, there are things you can do to prevent it. 1. Remove your child's shoelaces. Heavy-duty boots is one of the leading causes of Shedinja. 2. Monitor your family's use of the restroom. Not only will this prevent the use of Imposter and thus Shedinja due to shame of being a tryhard virgin, it will prepare your teens for today's workplace, where corporations are stepping up their surveillance of employees' bathroom usage. 3. Kill your internet service. There is absolutely nothing of value on the internet. Everyone should be reading their Bibles or working, not playing filth like Balanced Hackmons. 4. Control your child's reading material. Screen everything your child brings into the house. Do not allow anything even remotely related to Shedinja. Get up early in the morning and go through the newspaper cutting out all of the pictures of insects in the nature section. Burn them before your teenager wakes up. 5. Use corporal punishment. Spare the rod and spoil the child! Although outlawed by Socialists in many places, a good, sound thrashing has always been the best cure for the unruly child. 6. Buy and use commercially available Anti-Shedinja devices. You can get a sunsteel strike for your Boys by clicking here. President Bush has made it one of the goals of his Faith-Based Initiative to fund private Christian companies to develop a toxic spraying anti-Shedinja device for Girls. 7. Understand your child's language. There are dozens of slang terms for Shedinja in use by today's teenagers. For example, cancer, AIDS, and polio are commonly used terms. You should be familiar with them. Click here for a list. There are many other lists available on the Web. Don't use these slang terms around your children! If you must refer to Shedinja, use the term "Self-Abuse." 8. Scientifically test your child for signs of Shedinja. Research has shown that using Shedinja is correlated with excessive acne and obesity. If your child shows these symptoms, chances are, they are spamming Shedinja.


Sorry Gurpreet lol no offense!
Thanks for the cool Shed team Funbot28!
I am pro-ban btw.
 
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Shed reqs 2.jpg

Finally got the reqs after too many games lol
S/o to everyone who talked with me during the run, and everyone who posted teams here.
Kinda indecisive on the vote for now.
I barely saw any shed during my run, most of those I have seen were focus sash endeavor. I used it towards the beginning, but it didn't really feel overwhelmingly powerful enough to be banned.
On the other hand, I perfectly understand the reasons why some want shed banned.
 

xavgb

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https://pokepast.es/1639e1d24d6da9aa
https://pokepast.es/1fec357facdbdf2b

Got reqs with these (and a couple others that i only used for like 5 games at most). Laddering with these was a painful experience as the shed is what i've been using since the start of the gen and rain is rain. Reqs were also too long but w/e.

Definitely voting ban on this thing. At the very least I find Shed unhealthy in the way it forces teambuilding, but honestly even when running specific prep for it you're relying on a few things being in your favour especially with the item choice. Having played about 50 games with Shed myself I can definitely say that a lot needs to go wrong to be in a real losing position - generally something along the lines of having a solid wall for whatever you bring along as an attacker and some means of consistent pressure (something that actually makes progress). This is pretty dumb because you're basically putting in more prep than you would for any other mon with less consistency in actually accounting for the thing you're prepping for.

The main thing that annoys me though is the lack of variety/creativity in builds. Due to the amount of effort you have to put into prepping for Shed with your individual mons, you tend to end up with either the most obvious offensive threats (Mold GDZ, Lunala, Zac-C) or suboptimal offensive threats, both of which risk just getting walled, so you then have to continue the prep into the rest of your team by running stuff like Wisp on defensive mons etc. While these moves are some of the best options available in the meta, this doesn't really mean you should be forced into them so often. I played multiple games on the ladder where the fact that my Melmetal was capable of 1v1ing the Wisp Melmetal variants was a huge factor, and weaknesses get opened up all over the place if you prep "too hard" for Shed. As a result of people running such heavy prep for Shed on their individual mons, tons of structures end up being built around pivoting crazy breakers in safely to see whether they can pull something out of their ass, while using the fat mons to wait around until the breakers can do their thing. In order to escape these teams being optimal you pretty much have to find a way of removing Shed from the game without your mons directly engaging it, and we just don't really have options for that anymore - the best one is weather, and the funny thing is even that needs some extra support in case it faces goggles. I'm not going to pretend that Shed is the only thing locking the meta in place like this, but I do think it's a large factor and a ban would be important to let the meta develop without something like this looming in the builder. I'm pretty sure there's a few things that will have to go and while Shed teams do tend to both abuse and handle them better than most teams, I still don't see this as a reason to leave it unbanned.

Lastly, I've noticed that some people's expectations for Shed seem to be skewed slightly. It's worth remembering that there's a lot of sides to Shed and obviously quite a few items - Heavy-Duty Boots does not have to be a godly unbeatable item choice for Shed to be broken, Shed doesn't necessarily have to be the most consistent thing available in the meta to be banworthy, and Shed definitely isn't confined to the same set of rules as last gen when it comes to choosing sets, as the gen 7 meta and gen 8 meta are just way too different for the exact same sets/team structures to be optimal. I haven't gotten Rocks up with Shed once this gen despite the fact that its ability to set hazards was a major reason for its suspect last gen, and yet here we are.
 


ladder taught me nothing about this mon - but the strain on the builder is way too strong. ban this thing
https://pokepast.es/b0635fcad6c37e3e - this was the team I used for reqs. the main weaknesses are specs kyu and secret sword lun / dw. other issues can be that sf etern may not reliably be able to set spikes and this means that residual damage can be tough to get up in some matchups.
Just adapt/ Go out of your smogon bubble and capatalize on the over useage
 
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