Metagame Bonus Type [OM of the Month]

Recently used this team in a tour in the OM room, figured I'd share it here.

Defensive core is pretty standard stuff. Poison Mandibuzz is a super good catch-all special wall, and a great pivot against Spectrier as well. Also beats Rillaboom quite handily. Fairy Toxapex is a hard counter to almost every variant of both Rapid- and Single-Strike Urshifu, and Mandibuzz handles the Psychic variants so you're super covered against it. It's also a very good physical pivot as you can easily come in on almost any non-Ground physical attacker, get chip with Rocky Helmet and scout what they're using, then switch into an appropriate immunity/resist. Flying Heatran is the team's answer to Naganadel (and Nidoking lacking Thunderbolt), and is good at pressuring most bulky Ground and Water types as the former often pairs up with Steel and the latter is often either vulnerable to Toxic or weak to Ground. Landorus-T finishes off the core by acting as a check to mons such as Garchomp and Kartana.

The offensive core is where things start to get spicy. Fighting Choice Band Landorus-T is a super nutty breaker. Almost anything that isn't a dedicated resist is bound to get OHKO'd:

252+ Atk Choice Band Landorus-Therian Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp: 364-429 (101.9 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Once you get a good hit on the opponent's Ground immunity (which is often Flying Heatran, which takes a million from Superpower and outright dies to Stone Edge), you just get to spam Earthquake and watch everything drop. Most mons aren't capable of revenging you from full, some even with super-effective hits, which makes it possible to get extra kills even against offensive teams simply by trading hits. In the event that you do get hard-countered (Fairy Corviknight, for example), U-turn lets you generate momentum and bring in another mon to start breaking.

Gyarados... is there. I wanted a better way to break bulky Ground-types and didn't really have a Water/Ground switchin, and Gyarados happened to fulfill both criteria. Steel typing helps it gain opportunities to set up and sweep, and if it does get going, makes it much harder to revenge kill as Water/Flying/Steel is an absolutely stellar defensive typing and after a Dragon Dance you outspeed most of the unboosted metagame.

Dragapult is the star of the team. Steel/Dragon/Ghost is an excellent defensive typing and a very scary offensive one when paired with Fire Blast. Most teams are prepared for Specs Dragapult right now and end up being very, very weak to Dragon Dance as a result. Once Toxapex and Heatran are out of the way, getting a Dragon Dance off is basically GG.

Threatlist:

Fairy Corviknight and similar defensive mons - in theory it beats the entire offensive core, but in practice it gets overwhelmed quite quickly. Still, you have to play aggressively against it and make sure it doesn't get many opportunities to heal. Keep Stealth Rock up and force it to Defog instead of pivoting or healing, take advantage of Flying Heatran's Fighting neutrality to bring it in even against Body Press variants and pressure it out.

Kartana, Garchomp - Huge threats to the team, but you have outs against them. Don't let them set up and snowball - even if you have to trade, it's best to take them out and let your other mons deal with the aftermath.

Electric Naganadel, Tapu Koko, Fairy/Flying Zeraora, etc. - you may have noticed that 2/3 of this team is weak to Electric. Any Electric type that can consistently threaten Landorus-T is an extremely scary matchup, with Naganadel in particular being impossible to revenge kill. If you see any of these, or any other scary-looking Electric type, you need to play knowing that it's a kill-or-be-killed matchup and that you CANNOT play defense. This team has the tools to play hyper-offense, and this is what they're used for.

Dark Spectrier - probably the single worst matchup this team has. Every time it gets in, you're forced to go hard Mandibuzz and U-turn into Dragapult, risk a roll with Dragon Darts on slightly bulkier variants, and then if Dragapult goes down too early you just lose. You also can't let Dragapult get burned, and if Sticky Web is up you lose. Normal Spectrier is slightly less scary as Mandibuzz can somewhat handle it, but it's still incredibly tough to beat.

Thoughts on the meta: Naganadel needs to GO, Urshifu-SS needs to GO (Poison sucks, use Steel, Ghost or Psychic), and Spectrier needs to GO. Other than that, I don't see anything immediately overwhelming. Dragapult and Zeraora are incredibly versatile and a nightmare in the teambuilder, but I don't think either is as threatening in practice. Both easy S-tiers, but time will tell if they're actually broken. Heatran isn't as good as I thought it might be, but that might be because of how much it's tasked with answering right now thanks to how strong Tapu Lele, Naganadel and Boomburst users are - multiple of these will wear down Heatran super quickly, especially Flying Heatran with its Stealth Rock weakness. Ground Heatran and Grass Heatran are probably better than Flying, honestly: they handle Naganadel and Tapu Lele better, and have better offensive presence with either Power Herb STAB Solarbeam, or just STAB Earth Power. In general, a ton of things seem broken or insanely good on paper, but are manageable in practice due to the increased defensive counterplay from 3rd typings - Spectrier, Naganadel, Kartana and Urshifu-SS are some of the very few exceptions. Despite being manageable, however, they're almost never mediocre or bad. I nearly got my butt handed to me by Psychic/Fire DD Mew, and saw a couple other cool things either in games or on paper, like the Gyarados set posted above, Water Nidoking, and Fairy Jirachi. Lots of stuff seems super fun and in general it seems like a lot more normally "niche" or "outclassed" options could potentially thrive in this meta.
 
Mind sharing your code? If it’s not too big, just post it here. Would be interesting to put such information into an excel file.
ok but u need all of the files to make it work. i'm french so some things are in french.
 

Attachments

Let's talk about vikavolt:

"pretend it is here"

Steel (Vikavolt)

Levitate

Bug Buzz
Volt Switch
Roost
Sticky Web

248 HP 20 SPA 240 Spdef Calm Nature

Very good defensive typing, only weak to fire, an exploitable X4 weakness it can just pivot into a flash fire mon or one that quad resists. it's really fat. I have been testing with it these first two days and it's just a really Good Pivot
 
Here's a hyper offense team I've been running with. Most of the support comes from overwhelming threats that put a hole in a wall or force an obvious switch in.

Fighting (Regirock) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Thunder Wave
- Stone Edge

Body Press continues to find strong users in these other metas. With one Iron Defense your wall is swinging over 1000 defense with STAB, while not having low HP or Special Defense like some other users. You can also use Registeel for slightly better typing and more balanced physical/special defense.

Ground (Gyarados) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Power Whip

I haven't run into a team yet that can stop Gyrados, especially if you're paying attention to what their available counters are. Most Grass pokemon pick up extra types that makes one of those moves neutral. You could make an argument for a lot of items, but keeping the sweeper healthy is a lifesaver.

Normal (Toxtricity) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Volt Switch
- Sludge Wave

A STAB Punk-Rock Specs Boomburst is going to one-shot a lot of things, or two-shot a switch in. Anything that tanks a hit should be plenty softened for someone else.

Steel (Vikavolt) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Bug Buzz
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon

Steel gives Vikavolt better typing and solid coverage. It's not excellent on its own, but having Web support is great for these heavy hitters. Even if it just means they won't bring something out until they spin, that's an advantage for you.

Fighting (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz

I ran a similar set with Rillaboom for some time in Camomons (I also like Hammer Arm+Grassy Glide), but I wanted something immune to Psychic. Incineroar lowers attack while having boosted special defense, so she's a nice momentum breaker. Knock Off hits hard and debuffs, drain punch heals, and Earthquake/Iron Head/U-Turn can round things out. Fighting type gives Stealth Rock resistance and gives Incineroar the tools to take down Heatran.

Ghost (Porygon-Z) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Trick

Ghost Porygon is running around because it's really strong. If you lock into Normal or Ghost, be prepared to switch out.

New/Covered Weaknesses:</p><p>Regirock: weak to Psychic and Fairy
Gyrados: weak to Ice and Grass; immune to Electric; neutral rock
Toxicitry: no new weakness or weakness covered
Vikavolt: weak to Fire (4x) and Ground (0x); neutral rock
Incineroar: weak to flying: neutral rock
Porygon: weak to dark: immune to fighting, normal, ghost.
Did I run into you on the ladder lol. That's almost the exact same vikavolt set as mine bar evs. Unless you just somehow thought the same thing. Glad it's catching on, Very fat
 
Why isn't Dark Dragapult used that often?

2573.png
Dark (Dragapult) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Beat Up
- U-turn
- Dragon Darts
- Fire Blast
I've used it a lot and it's not that bad of a mon. It's obviously better to use early on for maximum Beat Up BP. The only issue I've had with this was with the Fairy types.
 
Why isn't Dark Dragapult used that often?

View attachment 346328
Dark (Dragapult) @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Beat Up
- U-turn
- Dragon Darts
- Fire Blast
I've used it a lot and it's not that bad of a mon. It's obviously better to use early on for maximum Beat Up BP. The only issue I've had with this was with the Fairy types.

I'd guess the problem is that Dragapult in general doesn't get many major improvements by adding a type. Which makes it used less 1. because it's not that useful and, 2. Because it's not that different from using regular Dragapult, so there's no novelty factor.

It doesn't have the bulk or typing to become a defensive wall, and it doesn't have the power/moves to really take advantage of an additional stab. Fire typing is about the only thing is really gets a buff from and that's purely because it helps KO all the mons that have added steel to their type. It doesn't need dark typing, as dark hits hardly anything new (Besides ghost/normal) and offers no needed resistances.

Sure, Pult is good. But it always was. Nothing really changes for Dragapult, whilst other mons fill entirely different niches and get a lot more use because people want to try out the big changes.


People also get obsessed purely with the type chart in this meta. Everyone wants their Steel/Flying/Electric, or similar types with minimal drawbacks.
 
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Spent a good chunk of today playing with various different teams, all of which sucked ass either because they were bad or because they were stupid matchup-fishing HO and made me feel empty for using them.

At the very least I played a variety of team styles and different mons so let's go over them.

Section One: ban these for all that is holy in this world
:ss/urshifu::ss/naganadel:

Urshifu-SS definitely has its stronger checks but it's still extremely powerful and basically mandates specific Pokemon to be on your defensive core if you don't want to get your face caved in. I think we'd have a lot more breathing room if this wasn't around.

Naganadel is also an extremely powerful wincon and its list of checks is still largely limited to Heatran and ChansBliss. It's like Urshifu in that there are Pokemon which handle it, but not many, and against the right team you really struggle.

Section Two: Big Threats
A lot of these Pokemon are really strong and for some I think have solid cases for them being banworthy, but it's pretty hard for me to tell. Also, this isn't a comprehensive list, just Pokemon I felt like talking about from my time playing.

:ss/kartana:

Kart's biggest problem was having the painfully mediocre Grass/Steel offensive combo, and it's best Steel move being Smart Strike doesn't help. Sacred Sword and Knock Off are what let it thrive, but it misses out on having a STAB boost to them.

Naturally, granting your own Kart STAB to one of these moves is incredibly potent. Dark Kartana hits like an absolute truck and not much wants to switch into it, seeing as resists are going to lose their item. I'd say the biggest thing keeping it balanced right now is that Poison Mandibuzz is everywhere; though Smart Strike is a way to hit it neutrally, for choiced sets Steel is a pretty awful move to lock into, meaning you're likely to get bullied by the opponent's multiple Steel resists. SD can be a way around this issue, but finding good opportunities to pull one off can be difficult and you lack the Speed or Attack granted by Scarf/Band.

:ss/zeraora:
Zeraora has so much variety in what it can do. It's a great offensive pivot that can utilize multiple types to its advantage, and being able to outspeed Pult is as crucial as ever. Slower teams that aren't Stall can struggle vs. this a lot, as its really good at preserving momentum and hitting really hard either with Close Combat or Knock Off, depending on your bonus typing. Extremely solid mon. Bulk Up sets are demonic and I highly recommend trying one out.

:ss/dragapult:
Right now my favorite and least favorite Dragapult set is Dark Beat Up.
This is another very versatile Pokemon and its not hard to understand why. Normal is a free upgrade to Pult, which was already really good, but that's just one of many. I ran Water as gives it a better type for switching-in and provides it STAB Scald, a great move to have for status fishing and boosting Hex. Steel is another common sight for Dragon Dance variants and in general helps Pult come in more often now that its plethora of resistances make up for its lacking bulk.

:ss/blissey:
This is mostly a stand-in for Stall and Semi-Stall, but Blissey (and its derivative) is really good and super annoying. The most common I've seen in Ghost, leaving it with a singular Dark weakness, but I've also come across other variants. Still weak to a lot of the same things (knock off, strong neutral physical attacks, being passive), but being able to pick-and-choose its answers gives it so much more value.

The playstyles themselves are just really good. The thing about Bonus Type is, while you're able to add more STABs, you're not adding additional coverage, so there does seem to be an advantage for fat builds as they can craft extremely sturdy defensive cores. It's not an invincible archetype; stallbreaker strats like Magma Storm Heatran are still excellent at trapping, Taunting and eliminating annoying defensive Pokemon, plus there's plenty of Pokemon which just click buttons into them. It is however something I imagine will evolve and start to dominate once sets are better explored and optimized (and as things start getting the banhammer).

:ss/mandibuzz:
I'd wager this is the most defining wall of the metagame. It's Poison set matches-up well versus a ton of premier offensive threats in a way other Pokemon can't, which is its claim to fame. I've seen other types like Ground so it's not weak to Electric, but when building I knew I needed a way to break past Mandi or else progress would be really difficult. I do think it's so good right now largely because people are desperate for checks to Urshifu and Kartana along with Ghosts like Dragapult and Spectrier.

:ss/corviknight::ss/tornadus-therian::ss/landorus-therian::ss/zapdos:
These are the other Flying-types I've seen or used the most. Corviknight is a common sight and has a ton of viable sets. It's definitely a solid contender for the best Flying-type, but I'm more partial to Mandibuzz because Corv is a bit more lacking in the utility department and can be a bit harder to patch-up weaknesses on.

Torn-T is something I've been using a lot of and it's honestly super clean. I tried a Fighting set and it was definitely inconsistent but extremely potent. Focus Blast and Hurricane are hard to switch into, moreso when you have a Nasty Plot boost or Defog the opponent to improve accuracy. The SR neutrality helps a ton too, letting you run other items in place. With Regen it can switch into Kartana pretty consistently, only fearing Smart Strike and the rare (i.e. I've never seen it) Psycho Cut.

Lando is pretty much the same except it can hit harder with other moves or just be a better blanket check to Physical attackers. Flying types are everywhere making it hard to succeed as a Ground-type, but that's what the Rock set is for.

I've seen both defensive Zapdos sets and offensive ones, the latter on Rain teams usually (more on those later...). Part of me feels its the weakest of these five but it's not bad by any means.

:ss/clefable:
Practically every Clef I've seen is Steel and runs Calm Mind. Magic Guard + Magearna's stupid typing makes Clef so hard to take down late-game and fail to prep for it and you will get run over by this thing. With how hard it is to run Ground moves in a Flying-type meta it has a plethora of teammates it can fall back on to cover its weaknesses.

:ss/heatran:
Tran is very good. The Flying set is about as popular as expected, but you can do much more with this. It's a great glue mon that covers all sorts of teambuilding holes, and having a strong Fire type is really nice when Steel types are abundant. It also helps that Flying Heatran is one of the best ways to deal with an opposing Heatran.

:ss/hippowdon::ss/excadrill:
From my experience Sand is everywhere. Hippo has a large array of annoying defensive sets while Drill is really good at breaking past most things. I've seen a lot of Sand teams that just keep throwing setters are you until Excadrill gets an opening and then proceeds to sweep your unhindered.

:ss/pelipper::ss/barraskewda:
Rain teams are worse in terms of feeling like an uphill battle. Pelipper's ability to run Ground and deny Electric moves is huge for these teams, as it means its the Rain setter, Hazard Control, slow pivot, and Electric immunity in one. From there most teams I've come across bring in one of many dangerous breakers/sweepers and go to town. Barraskewda I saw a lot of, the Fighting set has a nasty Close Combat which gives it the powerful neutral coverage alongside Rain-boosted Waterfall it so desired. Being able to stay healthier in the face of Rocks is also a big deal for it.

:ss/torkoal::ss/venusaur:
Sun is the last weather team and the one I've grown to despise the most. Venusaur is extremely threatening if you lack Heatran as it can use STAB Sun-boosted Weather Ball to tear through tons of Pokemon. Torkoal usually runs either Ground or Grass in my experience, and these teams often run a Ninetales in the back to make sure Venusaur has as many attempts to win as possible.

Section 3: Personal Thoughts
Right now I feel the metagame is extremely chaotic. There's just so many different forms of Offense to keep track of and way too many big threats to cover for. Part of this is definitely low ladder being the perpetual nightmare it tends to be for someone who doesn't like running Stall teams (AKA the one-way ticket out of low ladder), so I can't say this is how it's been for everyone. I tend to play later at night when the strange people start going online and magically running teams that happen to counter the one I just made. I'll definitely be playing more later on and perhaps try to make something legitimately good or just use a better builder's team lmao

With that out of the way here's a couple things I've played around with and would love to get more mileage out of.

:ss/rotom-heat:
Rotom is really good and my favorite form has always been Heat since it's got such a unique defensive type. Running Steel on it makes Rotom really strong versus Kyurem and is annoying to take down in genera. The Fire/Electric typing preys on the Steel and Flying types that are so common. Access to Trick makes it that much better, you can shut down walls and make room for the rest of your team to progress. It's also a great tool versus Clefable if running Scarf Trick, while also providing a good form of Speed Control with how many fast Pokemon there are to keep track of.

:ss/mamoswine:
I was looking for something that could dismantle a lot of defensive cores and that ultimately brought me back to Mamo. Ground/Ice remains one of the best offensive pairings and access to Knock Off, Rocks, and Ice Shard is very promising. I think its niche lies as a Rocker that threatens most Defog users in the metagame, the issue being Mamo is deceptively bad at taking hits.

:ss/orbeetle-gmax:
There's no graphic for Gravity so here's Orbeetle. Zydog is certainly an option but it's poor bulk and Thousand Arrows hitting neutrally first time around doesn't do it for me. Gravity feels so strong in a meta where Grass and Bug types are uncommon and most teams rely on Flying and Levitate for their Ground answers. Players also enjoy stacking Ground weaknesses onto these Pokemon as it's generally risk-free, so using Gravity to exploit this trend is really cool. The problem is you have to use Gravity.
 
Just wanted to share this Sirfetch'd set. It's really fun to just spam Close Combat since so many teams rely on their ghost immunity to beat fighting types but Scrappy just ignores all that. Choice band First Impression is also really powerful and great for stopping sweeps and revenge killing.

sirfetchd.gif


Bug (Sirfetch’d) @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- First Impression
- Poison Jab
- Leaf Blade
 
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Naganadel is also an extremely powerful wincon and its list of checks is still largely limited to Heatran and ChansBliss. It's like Urshifu in that there are Pokemon which handle it, but not many, and against the right team you really struggle.
I'd like to mention Slowking as a strong counter to Naganadel. It can pick any defensive or offensive typing it prefers, including but not limited to Fairy, Normal, Dark, Steel, and Ground. It both gains momentum for team and can threat enemy team with a large variety of attack/support moves, and itself has enough special bulk to be justified as basically a blanket check to all special attackers.

These are the other Flying-types I've seen or used the most. Corviknight is a common sight and has a ton of viable sets. It's definitely a solid contender for the best Flying-type, but I'm more partial to Mandibuzz because Corv is a bit more lacking in the utility department and can be a bit harder to patch-up weaknesses on.
I'd like to mention that Fairy Corviknight + Ghost Blissey counters the entire meta pretty much, apart from dedicated breakers. For more defensive teams, it is also completely acceptable to run both Corviknight and Mandibuzz, although Steel Zapdos is a potent competitor too.

Tran is very good. The Flying set is about as popular as expected, but you can do much more with this. It's a great glue mon that covers all sorts of teambuilding holes, and having a strong Fire type is really nice when Steel types are abundant. It also helps that Flying Heatran is one of the best ways to deal with an opposing Heatran.
The fact that the best way to deal with Heatran is by using your own Heatran is the symbol of overcentralizing. Since Steel types are so abundant as well, the meta is basically a Heatran meta. Needs to go by smogon policies but can't go because steel types will dominate even more.

In general, Heatran should defo be on watchlist. Flying type defensive cores might also need to be carefully looked at, and Mandibuzz is alright for now imo.
 
Thank to Anpawo's code and painfully typed out all type combinations as well as personally counted all the weaknesses, resistances, and immunities of each typing without looking it up a little bit of my own, I have a complete excel file of all triple type combinations and the amount of different weaknesses/resistances/immunities they have.
You can view it here. I also took the liberty of adding a basic net value for each type (all the resistances/immunities - all the weaknesses), as to make it easier to sort things. The coding I did was just a simple for loop and there might be some type combinations missing (there are 817 row, with 816 types, but I'm not sure if that's the total amount of triple combinations). The file also only counts the number of type effectiveness, not saying which types.
Maybe later I will upload the notebook and the file of the excel file at a later time.
Edit: Realized that the link wasn't public and now you can view it.
 
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Here are my quick thoughts about some of the stuff I've used and seen

:tornadus-therian:
This mon is excellent, while it has a great offensive coverage being reliant on hurricane and focus blast makes it basically unusable offensively. Defensively it is super good though, just run enough speed to creep Urshifu / Garchomp / Kartana depending on your team and put the rest in physical bulk. Being resistant to Dark, Fighting, Grass, and Ground lets it pivot in on so many viable physical attackers and since you don't really need boots anymore you can run something like rocky helmet to punish them harder.

:cresselia:
Here's a nice bulky mon, probably the only wall to Ground Kyurem that isn't Blissey (lame), can be a nice wincon with CM + Stored Power too since it has Moonblast to hit the Dark types.

:heatran:
Seen this a lot and the classic set with Magma Storm faces a big problem which is that it's completely walled by itself. Also mons like Blissey often have a Ghost typing meaning they can easily escape from Magma Storm. Also if your opponent has a SpDef Corv that isn't weak to Fire (it's good trust), there goes all your Magma Storm PP. Don't get me wrong Heatran is definitely still good but I highly disagree with the person saying it's centralizing right now, the Magma Storm set especially faces some big roadblocks and the fact that if you run a Flying set it actually needs Boots to switch in (???) means it's not as good at walling things over prolonged periods. Heatran really wants Leftovers to not be worn down by repeated switch ins to clefable or something. Basically I think it's overrated.

:corviknight:
Corviknight has like 80 different viable types. This is the one I've been using the most of, I don't even think it's the best type Corviknight can run overall, but it's just a good general type for fighting special attackers usually so I run it with spdef. I mentioned it earlier as an example of something you can switch into Heatran and just gain momentum from since it can only use Magma Storm 4 times against you, only does about 35% and you can escape from it with U-turn so even if it hits all 4 it ends up completely exhausted of PP basically.

:slowbro:
My fave slowbro. I like how it can scout basically any variant of Urshifu thanks to the Dark and Poison neutrality and the Rock resistance is handy too and has helped with stuff like Terrakion, Tyranitar, or really just switching in on stealth rock. A Dark neutrality is just useful in this due to there being a lot of offensive Dark types at the moment. I use it with Body Press usually cause it's STAB and decently strong although a lot of mons have random Ghost types so it doesn't always work. Future Sight is similarly inconsistent though due to there just being a lot of Dark types so yea.

:tangrowth:
The best type for Tangrowth tbh. Dominates most Zeraora, Fighting resist is always good for Kartana and Urshifu, can generally stay in and knock off most things and you get stab on sludge bomb if you run that, all of these are things Steel can't do. However there's lots of Steel types around that tangrowth can't do much too besides knock off but that's fine because you can wear down anything with the power of knock off.

:boltund:
Ever used Zeraora and thought "wow I wish I wasn't using a shitmon and could actually do damage?" Just spam banded Crunch with this, it's actually way better than Dark Zeraora and I'm not even memeing. It's legit good cause it can punish some common dark resists like Mandibuzz or DarkPex while not relying on STAB Knock off which does laughable damage against an itemless target. "Why not use like Weavile or something-" Fuck u boltund is cool and he is my friend.

:cinccino:
"Again why not use Weavile-" No. This thing just clicks Technician Triple Axel and it is amazing. In my experience a lot of the best attackers in this meta are mons that can just spam a high-power STAB move with no immunities (so that you don't get screwed by unexpected typings), this is a perfect example of that. A lot of people's Ice resists are more suited to fighting a special attacker like Kyurem so this just owns them, spdef Heatran is a good example of this. You gotta scout for helmets when using this or aggressively knock them off though, and stuff like Pex and slowbro still checks you so be careful.

:toxtricity:
By now you can probably see the trend, I use a lot of consistent defensive mons but memey breakers. Still though this is fun. It's basically "Oh you don't have Ghost Blissey? Then perish". Really it is that insane, you need outright immunities to tank more than 2 or 3 boombursts.
 
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Hey folks, dipping my toes into this metagame thanks to it now being the OM of the Month. My main thought looking at this right now: Magnezone (probably Flying) is probably going to be one of the most effective Pokémon in this game. Here's why:

The Steel type backs a TON of resistances. Dragon, Fairy, Ice, Steel, just to name a few, that's only like half. Plus it has an immunity to Poison. A lot of Steel types currently exist in OU already because of this. But, two other super powerful types, Dragon and Fairy, get SUPER better with the Steel type added. In Dragon's case, neutralizing two (edit: THREE) of its weaknesses, and in Fairy's case, granting a resistance AND giving it an immunity to something it was weak to before.

The point is, I think we are going to be seeing a lot of steel-types, either Steel types improved with an added type, or other 'mons given Steel for defences, that our only Magnet Puller will take advantage of.

(Note, if this was a generation with Hidden Power this Pokémon would be OP, but right now it has its STABs and Body Press, which can still be a solid threat to a lot of opponents.)

Here is my possible set. Assault Vest allows it to tank any fire moves, its one weakness (say from Heatran) before being able to fire back with something of its own (because any Steel types gaining the Flying type will be gaining an Electric weakness).

Flying (Magnezone) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Discharge/Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon/Tri-Attack/Explosion
- Volt Switch

tl;dr: make sure your team has a Magnezone counter, especially if you gave someone a Steel type for protection
 
Spent a good chunk of today playing with various different teams, all of which sucked ass either because they were bad or because they were stupid matchup-fishing HO and made me feel empty for using them.

Section One: ban these for all that is holy in this world
:ss/urshifu:
I think ur overestimating urshifu. It has a plethora of checks like poison mandi, fairy corv, dark pex, and a lot more. Having to prepare for a good mon doesn't make something broken and its checks are not super restriction as they each do things outside of simply being a shifu check.
 
:ss/comfey:
I have thought a bit about it and Comfey seems to have some important uses as a Fairy/Poison type.
With an addition Poison typing, Comfey not only is immune to toxic, but also is an excellent answer to Urshifu-S or Naganadel (depending on your EVs of course). That’s why I used Poison over Steel as well, as Close Combat would be neutral and Fire Blast would be super effective. Steel Comfey would also be vulnerable to Magnezone
With a toxic immunity as well as +3 priority Drain Kiss, Comfey can surprise both sides of defense and offense alike.
Comfey’s main issues are it’s terrible attacking movepool, especially after Hidden Power cut, and still having pretty weak stats. Pokemon like Excadrill or Tapu Lele can cleave right through Comfey’s defenses and take little to 0 damage from Comfey’s moves.
Poison (Comfey) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Triage
EVs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Calm Mind
- Synthesis/Pollen Puff
- Giga Drain/Pollen Puff/Stored Power
This set lets Comfey outspeed Adamant/Modest base 70s like Bisharp and Volcanion. This might seem weird since Comfey's ability gives its healing moves more priority than most other moves, but this way Comfey can at least use Pollen Puff vs Bisharp in a pinch and can Calm Mind or Store Power Volcanion. It is also just 16 EVs, so you might as well go for it. The EVs in bulk here make sure Black Sludge give the full 1/16th HP and have the rest in maximizing Physical defense.
As for moves, Drain Kiss is a must-have, otherwise there would be no point in using Comfey at all. It gives Comfey healing and of course priority with its ability in Triage. Calm Mind is also used to increase Comfey's bulk and power, with enough boosts being able to do some serious damage. It also helps Comfey against Pokemon such a Naganadel, Ground Kyurem, and even Nidoking
200 SpA Kyurem Earth Power vs. +1 244 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 176-210 (57.8 - 69%) -- not a KO
252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Sludge Wave vs. +1 244 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 122-146 (40.1 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. +1 244 HP / 0 SpD Comfey: 229-273 (75.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
That is if Comfey gets off a Calm Mind before hand, which you'll need to do against a more passive Pokemon or a Fighting type locked into CC.
Synthesis is a fast way to regain your HP without needing +6 Drain Kisses against a Scrafty or something, and it makes it so Comfey can always be healthy against Poison Urshifu.
Pollen Puff and Stored Power are pretty much your only other viable options for hitting Psychic Terrain users, as Psychic Terrain blocks Triage. Pollen Puff is more consistent and actually does more damage than Drain Kiss on same targets, while Stored Power can potentially be 260 BP, helps vs Calm Mind wars/Unaware Clefable, and isn't resisted by Poison either. Giga Drain can be used as an alternative priority move for Comfey, which may seem bad at first, but it can OHKO a Smashed Cloyster or a chipped Barraskewda in a pinch and does have the recoil Draining Kiss will have vs Rocky Helmet Toxapex.
I normally would use DK, CM, Synth, and SP. Use Pollen Puff if your team lacks a good fallback option against a strong and bulky offensive Pokemon like Bisharp, and use Giga Drain if your team is really weak to Rain or Gravity Spam.
Also would recommend using Magnezone as support against Excadrill, Heatran, and the many Steel types that'll cause it trouble.
 
If anyone makes a really good gravity team I'd like to see it.
Here are some ideas for teams
Gravity:
Moxie + STAB Earthquake + Choice:Salamence::Heracross::Gyarados::Krookodile::Pinsir:
If there are no resists, you can start taking out pokemon and gain moxie boosts. One problem is when Gravity runs out, and they have an immunity, you have to switch.

Meowstic:Meowstic:
Prankster is a very useful ability, and with meowstic, you can paralyze opponents, set up screens, trick, and set up Gravity. I feel that tricking lagging tail or t-waving is useful b/c of all the very fast weather pokemon.

Starmie:Starmie:
Starmie is very fast, has access to Gravity, Flip Turn, and Rapid Spin, and can take advantage of Gravity with it's low accuracy moves such as: Zap Cannon, Hydro Pump, Blizzard, and Thunder. I like giving it the Electric bonus.

Magic Room
This can be fun since you can disable your own choice items, set-up, and then get your item back. You can do things like disable Volcarona's Heavy Duty Boots, Assault Vests, Focus Sash etc.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bonustype-1352708357-tdaq9bb8rp2fyt6sw9ypyjac723as0epw
 
Been playing a bit and getting to top 50 on ladder with this Comfey team:
:comfey: :magnezone: :slowking: :rillaboom: :bronzong: :mandibuzz:
The comfey set I’m using is from a previous post I made, while everything aside from Fighting Bronzong is pretty standard.
The reason why I have Bronzong here is because;
:ss/kyurem:
Kyurem is an absolute monster in this metagame with a Tertiary Ground typing. Even with all the triple typings around, it is incredibly tough to switch into STAB Freeze-Dry+Earthpower. Choice Specs can instantly wreck most things with Kyurem having 130 SpA with hard to resist coverage. Your only options are Levitate+Steel, Ice/Bug, Steel/Flying/Fire as far as typings go. While I could have gone with Flying Heatran or Steel Moltres, the former is vulnerable to Stealth Rock without Boots and lacks recovery of any kind if it uses Boots, while the former lacks Stealth Rock and additionally your Defogger really needs to be Mandibuzz for another pretty insane and really banworthy Pokemon imo.
Fairy/Ghost Blissey can eat Kyurem’s special moves easily, but doesn’t run Stealth Rock normally ever since it got Teleport and if Kyurem uses SubRoost or Kyurem is now Physical Dragon Dance, Blissey is pretty much screwed.
Bronzong was pretty much the only Pokemon I could find that wasn’t Stealth Rock weak, had Stealth Rocks itself, and could actually threaten most Kyurem, and well it at leasts gets the job done. Hitting Kyurem’s Fighting weakness with a pretty strong STAB Body Press, additionally being neutral to Dark, and complimenting Normal Slowking that is immune to Ghost.

But remember how I said you really need Poison Mandibuzz? Well;
:ss/kartana:
Kartana (namely Dark Kartana) makes Urshifu-S look like joke. With STAB on Sacred Sword or Knock Off, in addition to natural Steel STAB and a bonus Grass STAB, Kartana matches Urshifu’s power output.
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 161-190 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew on a critical hit: 648-764 (160.3 - 189.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band (Steel) Urshifu Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band (Fighting) Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 156-183 (38.6 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band (Dark) Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 672-792 (166.3 - 196%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 243-286 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not only are you hitting even harder than Urshifu-SS’s Wicked Blow, you remove the target’s Item and can do a critical hit as well.
Not only that, but Kartana also is much faster, has Beast Boost, has Sword Dance, and also has a x4 resistance to Grassy Glide.
And while STAB Knock Off from Kartana doesn’t do as much as max power Fishious Rend, Kartana can choose to render certain playstyles as KIA thanks to more spammable Dark typing. Scarf with even with Adamant will still outspeed most things in the tier and terrorize Offense, while Jolly will revenge kill nearly everything. Plus with its typing, not even Rillaboom can touch it.
Banded STAB Knock Off can cleave through most balance teams and at worst least a sizable hole in the opponent’s defenses.
And Sword Dance that target’s Quagsire’s vulnerable Grass weakness as well as knock off being even stronger.
Mandibuzz is pretty much the go-to check, but even then, Mandibuzz can lose its Item, needs to be healthy at all times, and needs to run Foul Play too. That goes for Fairy Corviknight as well.
Oh, and let’s not forget that Dark is immune to Future Sight/Psychic as well, so even exploiting Kartana’s frail special side is more difficult and can’t take a huge chunk with Slowking pivoting.

Some other thoughts
:ss/urshifu: :ss/spectrier:
These 2 are admittedly not so bad any more.
Most people run Poison Urshifu over Steel Urshifu, which is fine by me. More Urshifu that can't hit Mandibuzz neutrally and only hits the allusive Fairy/Poison neutrally with its weaker STAB (and let's not forget about the irl heart attack mechanic) is fine by me. No doubt very prominent, but is definitely a lot more manageable with Triple types where the Pokemon can actually resist Fighting+Dark+Poison/Steel, or at least resist the Fighting/Dark part and be neutral to Poison/Steel, which was rare normally. Now a type like Fairy/Poison can be distributed to any Fairy or Poison type, Dark/Flying can now resist Poison and Fighting with Poison, make Togekiss immune to Poison Jab or Corviknight resistant to Fighting and Dark. There is a lot more variety of ways to check Urshifu now.
Same with Spectrier, but more prominent.
While you can't slap a Normal type onto any decently bulky and wall Spectrier endlessly due to Spectrier's new Dark STAB, you can instead slap Dark typings onto almost anything and wall Spectrier endlessly.
Jokes aside, being able to use Dark Pex makes non-choice sets much easier to deal with (even with the irl heart attack mechanics). You have a lot more options with Spectrier handling in this Metagame and more so than Urshifu imo due to how common Dark/Ghost resists can be. Still, you'll have to have some plan of attack since Grim Neigh and Nasty Plot are nothing to scoff at.
Kartana and Kyurem are much bigger threats than these 2 respectfully as they benefit the extra STABs more and don't mind the customizable Tertiary typing combos as much as Urshifu and Spectrier do.
But this is also pretty early and we might see more things like Ground Spectrier with Specs or Electric Urshifu-SS for Toxapex/Mandibuzz

:ss/naganadel:
I feel pretty on fence with Naganadel. Similar to how Urshifu can now have multiple different triple types resist its STABs more easily or sometimes be completely immune to all attacks (like with Fairy Heatran), Naganadel is much faster, can boosts its Spe or SpA on KOs, can use Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Nasty Plot, leaving very little room for error and having very few reliable means or stopping it. There is FairyPex with Haze and FairyLure, but are pretty specific, and Flying Heatran may be spikes immune, it is still weak to Rocks.
What also makes Dragon/Fire/Poison resists worse that the typings that do resist them are less desirable, like Steel/Rock/Water, Steel/Water/Fire or Steel/Rock/Fire, and Naganadel can just boost past those resistances or force them to constantly take Spikes Damage.
Definitely deserves the watchlist too, along with Kartana and Kyurem.
 
Alright I got a good couple games in yesterday with a team I actually put some effort into making and managed to peak in the top 10. Meta's pretty fun when you're not facing only cheese strats like what happened to me prior.

Here's the team I used, it's not perfect but I think the defensive core is extremely solid versus a lot of the metagame and could be expanded further.
:ss/blissey:
Ghost (Blissey) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Teleport
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
:ss/corviknight:
Fairy (Corviknight) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Defog
- Brave Bird

Shoutout to QY_CS for recommending this CorvBliss defensive pivot core, it's honestly amazing just how well these two work together.

Ghost/Normal Blissey is an extremely solid answer to Special Attackers, Ghost spam, and Body Press users and once you eliminate the physical attackers on a team it can very quickly outstall or soften the opponent for a teammate to sweep. Without Blissey this team would get rolled by Kyurem; substitute variants are definitely really dangerous and require some good luck or smart maneuvering. Dark Sprectrier can be an issue but if you sus out a Choice set Corv can take it on, which segways well into Fairy/Steel/Flying Corv. This is a phenomonal mixed wall right now; I ran a more defensive set since I had Blissey. Helmet Corv chips away at the likes of Urshifu, Kartana, Rillaboom, Lando-T, basically any U-Turn user. Even in situations where its usefulness is limited or I need a sack, that extra damage can be huge in wearing down dangerous sweepers so they fall to chip or get put in range of a Revenge Kill. Brave Bird isn't terribly useful sadly, you'd probably be better off with something else but Corv's has severe 4MSS when running Defog.

:ss/hippowdon:
Water (Hippowdon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 176 HP / 152 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Stealth Rock

Hippo helps a lot in rounding out the core as it's good versus Heatran, which destroys Corv and can easily Taunt Blissey, and in many ways is a fantastic partner to Corviknight. The EVs are admittedly random, you do live 4 Seismic Toss w/o Lefties but good luck ever having that happen to you before Blissey uses Toxic instead, but the good news is that it works, as Hippo is already a physically defensive tank and the extra Special bulk is much appreciated. The only bad thing about this set is Rock Tomb, which was a cheeky tech I added to see how it worked, but sadly it's not very useful. I think you'd get a lot more mileage out of a stronger Rock move or even Muddy Water. Overall however Hippo really just needs recovery + EQ + SR to function.

:ss/naganadel:
Flying (Naganadel) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Spikes

Spikes Naganadel is quite powerful, you do miss out on immediate power or Speed but it also solves the issue of it making zero progress versus dedicated checks. Beast Boost granting +1 Speed on a KO is also really clutch in forcing awkward scenarios onto your opponent or getting damage off for another Pokemon. Flying-type lets it avoid a Ground weakness and can help it switch into more attacks thanks to the 4x Fighting resist.

:ss/kartana:
Dark (Kartana) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade

After trying Banded Kart I decided to give SD a whirl and it proved its worth. With the 1.2 boost from Black Glasses, +2 STAB Knock Off doesn't have resists unless you're also a dedicated Physical Wall. Speed is its biggest issue as it misses out on a lot of crucial benchmarks, but its no slouch in the breaking department.

:ss/zygarde-10%:
Normal (Zygarde-10%) @ Life Orb
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Glare

This is definitely the weakest member of the team though it did have its moments. Extreme Speed is good for finishing off faster threats the rest of the team can't handle, while TArrows remains one of the dumbest moves in the game and has very limited switch-ins, especially if you've boosted up to +1. Some games it doesn't do anything except get one KO/heavy damage off and die, but there were times it was able to secure a win or at least get me into a stronger position.

Although this team did me well it has a lot of Pokemon which it struggles against. :ferrothorn:Ferrothorn is usually an absolute pain to deal with as Naga is the only one really able to handle it unless it gets in range of Kartana or Zygarde. Doesn't have much it can do against Corv, but Corv isn't exactly tailored towards beating it either. Steel-type:rotom-wash:Rotom was something I encountered once but it legit 6-0'd this entire team. Certain physical attackers are also very difficult to play around. :zeraora:Zera is faster than everything and has moves to hit all three of my defensive mons very hard. I pretty much need to pivot around with Hippo and Corv if it starts setting up to win, especially against the Flying set. :hawlucha:Hawlucha is in the same boat, it's faster than everything with Unburden and my only outs are hoping Blissey can get a Toxic off or wear it down with Sandstorm + Helmet through switches. :cinderace:Ace is also really hard to play around, at least I can outspeed with Naganadel but it can carry Sucker Punch which puts me in a really awkward position if its boosted. Usually the play is to stave it off with Hippo and try to wear it down with Sand + Helmet as usual, maybe throwing in Blissey on a predicted HJK so it takes a fat 50%. I think I may have done this to one of readytolose's alt accounts in some of the most stressful plays I've ever made.

Probably the worst matchup I've encountered is offensive physical Flying-type:tapu-koko:Koko. It absolutely walks over this team since the variants I've come across always carry Grass Knot. Extremely threatening Pokemon.
Ghost (Blissey) (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Teleport
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Fairy (Corviknight) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Defog
- Brave Bird

Water (Hippowdon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 176 HP / 152 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Stealth Rock

Flying (Naganadel) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Spikes

Dark (Kartana) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade

Normal (Zygarde-10%) @ Life Orb
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Glare
 
ok, after topping the ladder twice, we have issues already.
first of all, this is a very good metagame, most tech comes from hidden type barring the fairy typing in the mix, it doesnt really change much in terms of what types will be most used etc.

however,
dark/steel/dragon (Spectrier) @ Leftovers/choice specs
Ability: Grim Neigh
EVs: 112 HP / 132 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind/nasty plot
- Dark Pulse/wisp
- Shadow Ball/hex

this mon is broken. alot of people on the ladder and here in this thread downplay this mon alot. first of all, mandibuzz cant beat this mon, no matter the typing, this needs to be something thats known. i have 6-0ed/beaten teams who relied on manibuzz as a check/counter only realize that they cant break the sub with anything and they cant revenge it with anything. this mon is dumb on so many levels and im the only one on this ladder who actually knows how to optimize spec's evs so well that it can sub and set up and sweep at all given moment with any typing. i have tried fairy/poison/normal/ground/electric. this mon is far exceeds anything in this tier by alot. the whole idea that this is remotely "balanced" is just wrong on all fronts, too strong too bulky, and too fast. just quickban this.

secondly,

base/fairy/poison/bug/steel(Urshifu) @ Choice Band / black glasses
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Wicked Blow
- U-turn
- Poison Jab/iron head

why? why is this allowed. we have nothing for this. just because we can add fairy/dark to mons doesnt make this mon balanced or remotely fine in this meta. we literally have nothing for this, everything dies. i have sat here on ladder and played a stall and this just sat on this stall team with poison typing and just won because now in this meta its way harder check and chip down urshifu and it has now become easier for urshifu to come in and do whatever wants gain momentum/secure 2hkos/ clean. we gave urshifu more options to work with, we went from oh clef always checks to now it always dies. just like in every tier that banned this. because i have noticed 99% of the playerbase are just spamming dark/poison/flying manibuzz and believe that they are safe, just like spec. the moment ur mandibuzz is chipped its dead. once it gets knocked, its dead. its not consistent enough. like dont get me wrong manibuzz is great mon in this metagame however people rely on it too much when it doesnt actually beat any of these mons, all it can do is roost/uturn/defog and when it gets knocked, its dead. just quick ban this mon.

dragon/ground/dark/flying/steel/base (Cinderace) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick/ court change
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch/gunk shot / court change

now something a little less, well broken. this mon has definitely gotten weaker in its pressure with whats currently in the tier however, its still too much for this meta, its typing options varies based on the team(basically any typing that gives an immunity of some kind because u dont need a second typing honestly other than to switch into a move) we have gained alot more counters and checks to this mon however thats not why its broken. it still puts alot pressure on teambuilding and it can still 2hko everything in the tier given the right moment because only a very few options are there to actually beat this, like there water/ground hippo which is by far its most consistent check/counter other than that there's really nothing else. i believe i have used this mon extensively. all of the ground flying waters and dragons give it a hard time to get it going.
not alot of people will be convinced that this is broken cuz no one is using it nor seen it in action as much. if they quick ban ursifu/spec/naga, people will start to see why because cinderace isnt a mon that will be as blatantly broken as it seems at first and people tend to make that mistake alot so if they dont quick ban or consider banning/suspecting it then u know why. (update, people are complaining about it well we will see how it goes)

finally

fire/dark/fairy/steel/ghost/electric (Naganadel) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower/thunderbolt/hex
- Draco Meteor

look, just ban this mon. i believe that every mon that i have previously talked about above has some degree of skill to be used to its highest potential right. i dont have to say much about this mon. we have given it more options and more chances to set up on mons that it couldnt before and once it does it just wins because we cant revenge it. and i have solo'd teams from rain to trick room to stall after just one nasty plot. i know alot of people are using blissey and i will tell u this right now, that mon sucks, it aint beating nothing in this meta. ur never waling anything ur better off using slowking/galar slowking they are just 1 billion % better than bliss right now. the best special attacks right now are lele/kyurem/heatran/naga and they all beat bliss. main reason why i brought up bliss is because i have been seeing alot and its not good. teleport is fine, nice momentum but if bliss is intended to wall/check these mons, ur losing. anyway. naga is almost braindead to use and nothing walls its stabs. all types are viable that are listed above



my final thoughts

having these mons in the tier will not improve the meta, there's no reason to have them in the meta either. they all fall under being either very unhealty or very broken or both. why is it that everytime we have new metas, uber mons that are obviously broken are always unbanned like i get u might believe that there's a chance that these mons are fine/balanced but 90% of the time its the same case over and over again. i feel like i have been trying to get these same mons banned for multiple metagames before and its kinda getting annoying that we have to speak up to have these mons quickbanned

might post a vr in the future, look forward to that
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Quickban Slate #1
:ss/Naganadel::ss/Dragapult::ss/Spectrier:
Naganadel, Dragapult, and Spectrier have been quickbanned from Bonus Type! These 3 have shown to have highly limited defensive counterplay, requiring specific Pokemon to check them like Grass-type Heatran, Blissey, or Normal/Fairy Pokemon respectively, while also having limited offensive counterplay due to their high Speed tier and typings that help against most priority.
Tagging Kris to implement.

This is the first set of bans for now, and we're continuing to look at threats people have brought up. While some things were not banned now, it just means we are continuing to assess their place in the metagame. Here's why some things mentioned weren't banned and others we have discussed at length:

:ss/urshifu:

I'm sure most people are surprised to see this still in the metagame, but 23gz and I both feel that this is not a priority at the moment. Most of the arguments that have been presented show that most people have not attempted to adapt to Urshifu's presence in the metagame, and really only (somewhat) cover the defensive counterplay to Urshifu. Defensive checks like Fairy Corviknight, Fairy Toxapex, and Fighting Landorus-T stop Urshifu's sets in its tracks but haven't been mentioned in any of these arguments. These arguments also have failed to mention Urshifu's 4MSS that it has in this metagame, where it has to choose between Sucker Punch and U-turn or losing coverage, none of which are favorable options. Without Sucker Punch, Urshifu is considerably easier to check offensively, and even with Sucker Punch it's not particularly difficult due to being Choice locked. Offensive checks like Poison Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Tapu Koko, and Zeraora are able to revenge kill it with ease and typically can switch into it once if needed. As it stands right now, there's really not much of a solid argument against Urshifu and mostly point to people being mad about an Uber Pokemon being present in the metagame, though I expect this may change with the recent bans taking a large chunk of its popular revenge killers out of the metagame.
*Note: I only listed a few checks here as to not flood the paragraph with too many examples, there are plenty of others if you try out other options.

While I don't agree with the majority of current arguments against Urshifu, there have been a few solid points that have been brought up against it. The popularity of Future Sight users like Slowking are amazing support for Urshifu and is incredibly splashable, and I do think if there's anything that may push it over the edge, it'd be this combination. To be frank, I don't think Poison Urshifu is good let alone broken in the current metagame because there's practically no check that it does better against than Steel Urshifu, while doing considerably worse against defensive counterplay like Corviknight and Toxapex. Steel Urshifu is able to deal pretty considerable damage to them, and while I don't like the argument of RNG, Iron Head flinches are a real possibility in longer games and can allow it to break past Corviknight with just one.

TL;DR: We don't feel Urshifu has shown to be nearly as big of an issue as people make it out to be yet, though we will continue to gauge its presence in the metagame and update you all soon.

:ss/kartana:
Kartana hasn't had much discussion on it, nor has it shown to be broken yet to our surprise. Kartana is generally very broken in OMs so it'll be refreshing if this proves to be fine in the metagame. Band sets with Dark or Fighting seem to be the most potent, though it's still very frail and its Speed tier isn't perfect.

:ss/zeraora:
Zeraora also has seen light discussion and hasn't shown to be too much compared to my initial perception of the metagame. Flying, Fairy, and Fighting sets are all really nice speed control options, and don't lack counterplay by any means. I initially thought that Flying sets would be too much, but so far it seems rather reasonable to check both offensively and defensively.

:ss/cinderace:
Not gonna comment on this one much and am only including it to point out that this metagame is not OU, just because a Pokemon is Uber does not mean it's automatically broken in a completely different metagame. Cinderace seems mediocre and once the metagame cools down I don't expect it to be a popular option at all (it already isn't used due to popular checks being potent).

As previously mentioned, while we do not currently find the aforementioned threats to be too much right now, they're very much on our radar as we adjust to these new bans! We'll keep you updated, thanks for enjoying the metagame so much!
 
I'm sure most people are surprised to see this still in the metagame, but 23gz and I both feel that this is not a priority at the moment. Most of the arguments that have been presented show that most people have not attempted to adapt to Urshifu's presence in the metagame, and really only (somewhat) cover the defensive counterplay to Urshifu. Defensive checks like Fairy Corviknight, Fairy Toxapex, and Fighting Landorus-T stop Urshifu's sets in its tracks but haven't been mentioned in any of these arguments. These arguments also have failed to mention Urshifu's 4MSS that it has in this metagame, where it has to choose between Sucker Punch and U-turn or losing coverage, none of which are favorable options. Without Sucker Punch, Urshifu is considerably easier to check offensively, and even with Sucker Punch it's not particularly difficult due to being Choice locked. Offensive checks like Poison Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Tapu Koko, and Zeraora are able to revenge kill it with ease and typically can switch into it once if needed. As it stands right now, there's really not much of a solid argument against Urshifu and mostly point to people being mad about an Uber Pokemon being present in the metagame, though I expect this may change with the recent bans taking a large chunk of its popular revenge killers out of the metagame.
*Note: I only listed a few checks here as to not flood the paragraph with too many examples, there are plenty of others if you try out other options.

While I don't agree with the majority of current arguments against Urshifu, there have been a few solid points that have been brought up against it. The popularity of Future Sight users like Slowking are amazing support for Urshifu and is incredibly splashable, and I do think if there's anything that may push it over the edge, it'd be this combination. To be frank, I don't think Poison Urshifu is good let alone broken in the current metagame because there's practically no check that it does better against than Steel Urshifu, while doing considerably worse against defensive counterplay like Corviknight and Toxapex. Steel Urshifu is able to deal pretty considerable damage to them, and while I don't like the argument of RNG, Iron Head flinches are a real possibility in longer games and can allow it to break past Corviknight with just one.
good, u banned the broken stuff now, everything u said in this secton is blatantly wrong about urshifu, nothing u have said is a correct representation how good urshifu is and why its broken. firstly on how no one has adapted, now thats not an argument to be used here. there's nothing to adapt to. everyone is already playing in a way and building for urshifu and using multiple ways to handle urshifu and we already know its best counters/counterplay and checks and its not enough, the fact that its this good in a meta where we can slap fairy and dark typing on anything already speaks volumes. all of the checks/counters that u have mentioned all lose to urshifu in the long run and this isnt even with future sight where it literally kills all of those mons u have mentioned outright on switch in. urshifu does not have a 4mss, i dunno, where u got this from because all it needs, are stabs and the 2 slots, which are optional. this is not 4mss. band does not need to run coverage for fairies nor does it need to use u turn for momentum nor does it need to run sucker punch it can run anything in those 2 slots and perform well. all of ur other comments about urshifu are justifiable but to sit here and say it has 4mss is just wrong. and then u list mons that check/ revenge kill urshifu, now this contributes to nothing the mons u just quickbanned also have checks. spec still had checks, pult still had checks and naga still had checks, u did not elaborate here all u did was list checks and tell us they revenge kill urshifu. well its up to u, i will just keep abusing it while its still up
 
i don't agree with you, i think urshifu isn't broken at all since every pkm can be add fairy or poison. i made ONE team, and i'm still using it, 0 urshifu annoyed me. i'm at 1347 and i did 17 w for 2 L. and i also don't understand why naganadel is banned because heatran flying counters it totally.
 

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