SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps

I've said it multiple times, they dont design it because they don't care.

This series is meant to be played by kids to have fun, not for a challenge. It's meant to be easy.

Any time they actually bother to implement a challenge is to throw a bone to veterans, not something they are willing to actually invest resources for.

(Yes, probably any other company would have invested in making challenge modes for the sake of hitting a second target audience, but GF/TPCI are fine with just pleasing their target audience and getting anything else as collateral extra money)
The thing is: judging by how old the franchise is, they need to realise that a big portion of the fanbase starts to be OG. The game can be easy (default mode), but a little love for the OG fan portion could be present (a difficult mode). The target audience is new kids, and that's fine, but a big fraction of the fanbase is old enough to question things and deserve to be heard as well. But this is my personal opinion, it is how I see the franchise should evolve.
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
is there a comprehensive list of Pokemon that would theoretically be returning due to BDSP
I don't have one, but it's everything from Gens 1 to 4 so you can just look at Serebii's list of unobtainable Pokemon and ignore everything starting with Snivy. I didn't count, but it looks like about 2/3 of the remaining Pokemon would come back if SwSh was patched for this when Home is updated.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
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Quick question that recently came to mind, but has there been any indication as to how the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn starters will be obtainable in BDSP?

I mean feasibly you could transfer Kanto and Hoenn starters from SwSh to BDSP it they allow that via HOME, but the question still stands as to whether you can actually get some of your own in BDSP itself.

The Johto starters are obviously in the data, but the question still stands as to how Chikorita, Cyndaquil, and Totodile can be obtained in the game without any sort of foreign transfer.
 
I have looked at the encounter tables to find which Pokémon are unobtainable.

Excluding fossils, special encounters (e.g., Drifloon, Rotom), and gift Pokémon (e.g., Riolu), the following Pokémon do not appear in any encounter table, so the only way to obtain them would be via in-game gift (AFAIK there isn't a list for this yet), event (there was a Tangrowth event in D/P), and/or special mechanic (Feebas was only catchable in 4 fishing spots in Mt. Coronet):
  • Starters
  • Tangela, Tangrowth
  • Feebas, Milotic
  • Tropius
Excepting Feebas, these Pokémon were not obtainable in the original D/P games. It makes sense to keep starters until Pokémon HOME compatibility allows transfers, but I am really puzzled by the exclusion of Tropius and (most notably) Tangela (who got an evolution in Gen IV)/Tangrowth (who we've seen in the trailers). Perhaps an oversight that will be fixed on the day-1 patch?

I am also terrified at the prospect of Feebas being locked under the crazy fishing spot mechanic. I am guessing this feature is still in, but coded differently so it is not reflected on the encounter table. Oh my, back in the day I spent hours trying to catch Feebas and I never succeeded. The only one I ever got was hacked using an Action Replay. Ugh, this is the worst mechanic in the games.
Seems odd they would exclude Feebas. For starters can't you just breed and trade?


Quick question that recently came to mind, but has there been any indication as to how the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn starters will be obtainable in BDSP?

I mean feasibly you could transfer Kanto and Hoenn starters from SwSh to BDSP it they allow that via HOME, but the question still stands as to whether you can actually get some of your own in BDSP itself.

The Johto starters are obviously in the data, but the question still stands as to how Chikorita, Cyndaquil, and Totodile can be obtained in the game without any sort of foreign transfer.
I'd like to know this as well.
 
Quick question that recently came to mind, but has there been any indication as to how the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn starters will be obtainable in BDSP?

I mean feasibly you could transfer Kanto and Hoenn starters from SwSh to BDSP it they allow that via HOME, but the question still stands as to whether you can actually get some of your own in BDSP itself.

The Johto starters are obviously in the data, but the question still stands as to how Chikorita, Cyndaquil, and Totodile can be obtained in the game without any sort of foreign transfer.
Probably gifts if you complete the Pokédex (?), or acheive a certain thing, i guess...
 
Quick question that recently came to mind, but has there been any indication as to how the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn starters will be obtainable in BDSP?

I mean feasibly you could transfer Kanto and Hoenn starters from SwSh to BDSP it they allow that via HOME, but the question still stands as to whether you can actually get some of your own in BDSP itself.

The Johto starters are obviously in the data, but the question still stands as to how Chikorita, Cyndaquil, and Totodile can be obtained in the game without any sort of foreign transfer.
People have found starters in the underground, probably rare and post national dex.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PokeLeaks/comments/qqxln8/_/hk2ybgk
 
This is a full list of everything not currently in SwSh (excluding ofc the new LA stuff), so if they were to add everything to SwSh that's in BDSP; then yes, that would be the vast vast majority of Pokémon. I doubt this will be the case, but if it is it will be very funny because it would mean Greninja specifically is one of the few starters and few pokemon overall to not be in the game



EDIT: also decided for the heck of it to highlight everything by their gen colours to give a better idea visually of gen percentage

 
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I don't necessarily agree with you that they don't care since the resources/ investment needed to do this are so minimal that it makes zero sense to not try. Like straight up just the existence of the QOL fixes to breeding and EV training already justifies the inclusion of difficulty modes like 10 times over. I think its just a weird design philosophy thing like the forced exp share. I am definitely overdosing on hopium, but I hope the reception of the rematch rosters mean sometime in the future they will decide to throw a delicious bone to the veterans that only took a few hours to make.
Depends on what exactly you are looking for out if a challenge mode, since I don't think just "add 3 - 6 levels to all the trainer's Pokemon" would really satisfy anyone, despite that one being the one that would actually only take a few hours to make and could easily just be substituted by putting the toggle back on the exp all and making certain that the level curve is adjusted for that. Even then, however, you're still playing the same game, just with a bit more grind, which isn't really that difficult in the end because at the end of the day tacking on an extra 4 levels to someone like Milo or Nessa isn't going to make them that much more formidable.

So for a proper challenge mode you would have to go much more deeper than just level increases you would also need to look at making larger changes to the teams. Stuff like moveset changes or adding items or even adding or changing mons entirely. Stuff that would actually need some more dev time to both plan out and code in. Then of course the question of how to activate said mode (is it unlocked from the beginning? Is it similar to the BW2 versions? Is it a new game+ kind of deal and if it is what happens to everything you did previously?) which would also need dev time on discussions and implementation.

I would like a challenge mode and feel like they should definitely consider adding one in since it would be worth the time and effort to properly implement it, especially after seeing some of these spicy sets... but I do think there would be more effort to adding a proper one (i.e. one that doesn't go the boring route of just increasing levels) into the game than just adding a simple toggle.
 
I noticed this too yesterday, they're certainly interesting teams. Also, apparently only Dawn uses those teams, if you choose Lucas as the playable character, obviously.

If you use Dawn, Lucas uses these three teams, they also have a pattern
View attachment 384409
  • A Sinnoh starter
  • A Rotom form which is weak to the Sinnoh starter Lucas choose.
  • A normal type
  • An Eeveelution
  • A fossil Pokémon
  • And... I can't really tell what's the connection between Dusknoir, Absol and Gliscor other than the fact that they're the leads of their teams.
It's really nice that we can battle Lucas/Dawn. Previously we could only battle with them
There's a level of thought that has gone into the battle design of this game that is kind of astounding. I mean for them to create custom teams for this sort of side rival just on the basis of gender, for no other reason than "just because", is something I haven't seen GF do in a very long time. While designing battles with hold items and EVs seems straightforward, I just haven't seen that level of effort from GF in a Pokémon game probably since B2W2.
 
There's a level of thought that has gone into the battle design of this game that is kind of astounding. I mean for them to create custom teams for this sort of side rival just on the basis of gender, for no other reason than "just because", is something I haven't seen GF do in a very long time. While designing battles with hold items and EVs seems straightforward, I just haven't seen that level of effort from GF in a Pokémon game probably since B2W2.
I kind of assume ILCA designed these, not gamefreak
 
I noticed this too yesterday, they're certainly interesting teams. Also, apparently only Dawn uses those teams, if you choose Lucas as the playable character, obviously.

If you use Dawn, Lucas uses these three teams, they also have a pattern
View attachment 384409
  • A Sinnoh starter
  • A Rotom form which is weak to the Sinnoh starter Lucas choose.
  • A normal type
  • An Eeveelution
  • A fossil Pokémon
  • And... I can't really tell what's the connection between Dusknoir, Absol and Gliscor other than the fact that they're the leads of their teams.
It's really nice that we can battle Lucas/Dawn. Previously we could only battle with them
Another thing to add is the fossil Pokemon for teams 689 and 688 being part of the Grass/Fire/Water core, but for 687, Flareon takes that spot. As for the leads, my guess they're all suppose to be more sinister Pokemon.
 
Like straight up just the existence of the QOL fixes to breeding and EV training already justifies the inclusion of difficulty modes like 10 times over.
You see, to them, difficulty modes already exist: in the form of team compositions. I don't remember which one, but I think there was an interview before Sword/Shield where their idea of making the game harder is "you start using less or weaker Pokémon".

They think adding proper difficulty modifiers is pointless... and besides, given what they did in BW2, it's best that they don't try.
 
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Depends on what exactly you are looking for out if a challenge mode, since I don't think just "add 3 - 6 levels to all the trainer's Pokemon" would really satisfy anyone, despite that one being the one that would actually only take a few hours to make and could easily just be substituted by putting the toggle back on the exp all and making certain that the level curve is adjusted for that. Even then, however, you're still playing the same game, just with a bit more grind, which isn't really that difficult in the end because at the end of the day tacking on an extra 4 levels to someone like Milo or Nessa isn't going to make them that much more formidable.

So for a proper challenge mode you would have to go much more deeper than just level increases you would also need to look at making larger changes to the teams. Stuff like moveset changes or adding items or even adding or changing mons entirely. Stuff that would actually need some more dev time to both plan out and code in. Then of course the question of how to activate said mode (is it unlocked from the beginning? Is it similar to the BW2 versions? Is it a new game+ kind of deal and if it is what happens to everything you did previously?) which would also need dev time on discussions and implementation.

I would like a challenge mode and feel like they should definitely consider adding one in since it would be worth the time and effort to properly implement it, especially after seeing some of these spicy sets... but I do think there would be more effort to adding a proper one (i.e. one that doesn't go the boring route of just increasing levels) into the game than just adding a simple toggle.
A few hours might have been a bit much, but I don't think its too difficult a project. The SWSH battle tower has about 170 different trainers and each can have anywhere from 8- 30+ possible Pokémon each with about 4 different sets. The entirety of the story mode roster is so so small compared to that and balancing the level curve seems pretty easy since the exp all seems to be here to stay (ditch the NFE pokemon on opposing trainer rosters earlier and any under leveling issues are gone.) I do agree that there would be discussions about implementation, but after that its literally basic data entry.
 
You see, to them, difficulty modes already exist: in the form of team compositions. I don't remember which one, but I think there was an interview before Sword/Shield where their idea of making the game harder is "you start using less or weaker Pokémon".

They think adding proper difficulty modifiers is pointless... and besides, given what they did in BW2, it's best that they don't try.
The thing is, I've done various challenge runs. Just changing the mons you use isn't really enough. Assuming you don't outlevel the next gym leader*, weak mons still crush it. You have to ban grinding, items in battle, and limit the mons you get just as a start. And then it feels artificial. People who are calling for a challenge mode don't want to beat a weak opponent while standing on one leg, they want to beat an absolutely monstrous oppt by pulling out every trick that's available.

The real question is how good the challenge mode should be. All major fights from late early/early mid-game on should have which of the following: fully-evolved team of 6, max EVs/IVs/Natures, competitive movesets, held item use, healing item spam, balanced types, excessive level spikes? I don't think there's agreement on that. GF seems to think level spikes are the answer. BDSP devs went with making the rematches as close to competitive-ready as possible given the game. Different players are calling for different things on here. It's a question without a clear answer IMO.

*Which is a problem in some games. Just...tie how high you can level your pokes to the last badge obtained, make it a toggle, default to off. Otherwise it's easy to overlevel quickly if you're grinding a recent catch/fighting every trainer/grinding cash at restaurants/searching for a rare/the level curve sucks.
**Route trainers/wilds/etc should be tougher, but I don't think anyone minds them not being serious fights. It's fine if Swimmer Steve has 3 mono-waters, he's not supposed to be memorable or interesting. Archie, though, should be.
 
The thing is, I've done various challenge runs. Just changing the mons you use isn't really enough. Assuming you don't outlevel the next gym leader*, weak mons still crush it. You have to ban grinding, items in battle, and limit the mons you get just as a start. And then it feels artificial. People who are calling for a challenge mode don't want to beat a weak opponent while standing on one leg, they want to beat an absolutely monstrous oppt by pulling out every trick that's available.

The real question is how good the challenge mode should be. All major fights from late early/early mid-game on should have which of the following: fully-evolved team of 6, max EVs/IVs/Natures, competitive movesets, held item use, healing item spam, balanced types, excessive level spikes? I don't think there's agreement on that. GF seems to think level spikes are the answer. BDSP devs went with making the rematches as close to competitive-ready as possible given the game. Different players are calling for different things on here. It's a question without a clear answer IMO.

*Which is a problem in some games. Just...tie how high you can level your pokes to the last badge obtained, make it a toggle, default to off. Otherwise it's easy to overlevel quickly if you're grinding a recent catch/fighting every trainer/grinding cash at restaurants/searching for a rare/the level curve sucks.
**Route trainers/wilds/etc should be tougher, but I don't think anyone minds them not being serious fights. It's fine if Swimmer Steve has 3 mono-waters, he's not supposed to be memorable or interesting. Archie, though, should be.
Judging from what we're seeing, BDSP's style seems to be a good foundation for a challenge mode.

I think we'll see some interesting runs when an Exp. All disable patch is released.
 

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