SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps

The amount of content provided by a Battle Frontier (either 4th or 3th gen battle frontier) greatly surpasses a few trainers with good teams. When you talk about the Battle Frontier you talk about 5 to 7 facilities, each one with a very specific set of rules and dedicated mechanics, along with the work on the visuals (the battle frontier is not just a sign that activates when you talk to it, it is actually mapped), to the point that in this very forum, each one of the battle facilities has enough text regarding its depth that could surpass a phd.

The rematches will last for a few hours, maybe 2 hours with a standard team if you know what you are doing. A new battle frontier would make you invest much more than that to actually challenge it.
Not to mention battle tower locks your levels to the opponent, so unlike the rematches you won't have a level advantage.
 
Now that Platinum vs. BDSP has become a legitimate debate, I think this is a fair point in Plat's favor. I generally think Plat's main campaign will have an edge over BDSP due to the opposing trainer teams and the superior Galactic plot.

However, I think BDSP's rematch teams are looking so impressive that it actually kind of makes up for the lack of Battle Frontier for me. I can't give a definitive post game edge to one game versus the other.

And I went into this strongly preferring Plat's aesthetic, but I got to be honest - BDSP is looking quite pretty in its own right. I'm especially impressed by the battle backgrounds.

I think the one X factor for me in this debate right now is the team building aspect. I need to know more about how viable each BDSP option is, especially Underground, while also factoring in evolution item availability. That's a pretty big unknown for me at the moment. It does help BDSP's case however, that I don't need to consider HM viability anymore while constructing a team.

I don't even think the level curve is looking concerning from what I've seen. Maybe there will be bumps in the road (particularly mid game between Maylene and Wake) but I think we're going to need the Exp. All in this game. In Plat, I could beat Cynthia on average 9-10 levels below her with a well planned team and strategy. That won't work here.

If you notice from the trainer data, her team is the only one with perfect IVs and EV trained in her first matchup. The rest of the Elite Four only catches on to that in later rematches. It's going to take an all-star team to take her down the first time, let alone subsequent times. So I really need to know what options I have available to me to construct such a team, before giving an edge to Plat or BDSP in this department.
Yeah, what Platinum has in its favour is a slightly better story and better first teams.
If we look at this correctly, BDSP addresses and succeeds in solving what was wrong with DP:
  • Slow paced game;
  • Limited pokédex, narrowing our teambuilding options (I remember fire types only being 2 families: Chimchar and Ponyta lines);
  • Challenging game (BDSP has better team movesets and strats, most of them competitive, even on first matches);
  • The HM usage required to traverse the game was too high for bad attacks that couldn't be easilly forgotten back then;
  • Making competitive teams was too time consuming and tedious without the Sw/Sh QoL we have nowadays
Nobody can complain that BDSP doesn't solve DP problems. It's a good game in that aspect. On top of that, we got the Underground expansion and revamped Contests.
In the other hand, we can think about that BDSP is mainly DP with gen 8 QoL. What we can complain about is that probably BDSP could have a little more new content, like bringing back megas, improving the Galactic plot (like Platinum already does), or adding some kind of post game episodes and inherit some of Platinum's improvements like the Battle Frontier and first-battle team compositions. Also, some developing choices are indeed questionable, like:
  • the chibi artstyle, making it for awkward cutscenes and weird pokémon-human scale when pokémon are following you (in my opinion this visual aspect shows no improvement since HGSS in 2009);
  • the Amie bullshit being bound to the following pokémon;
  • the untoggable full party expShare.

In short, this game can either feel satisfying or disappointing. It all depends on what you look at it and what aspects matter to you. I'm a bit disappointed because I expected more for Sinnoh, but I think this will be a good Sinnoh experience afterall. They deserve my props for the cool AI teambuilding strats, I was not expecting that at all!
 
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The amount of content provided by a Battle Frontier (either 4th or 3th gen battle frontier) greatly surpasses a few trainers with good teams. When you talk about the Battle Frontier you talk about 5 to 7 facilities, each one with a very specific set of rules and dedicated mechanics, along with the work on the visuals (the battle frontier is not just a sign that activates when you talk to it, it is actually mapped), to the point that in this very forum, each one of the battle facilities has enough text regarding its depth that could surpass a phd.

The rematches will last for a few hours, maybe 2 hours with a standard team if you know what you are doing. A new battle frontier would make you invest much more than that to actually challenge it.
I mean I am a huge fan of both Frontiers, don't get me wrong. And losing out on a Battle Factory experience is unfortunate.

But these rematch teams have perfect IVs, EV trained, and seem to utilize competitive strats. It almost reminds me of the PWT in a way, and even there they didn't have perfect IVs. As long as you don't cheese the fights with Switch mode, healing items, or over level to oblivion, I think it'll be possible to simulate a similarly challenging experience.

And even the Frontier isn't without its faults. You have to wade through a bunch of no name battles before reaching the good ones. It's nice that these rematch battles will be more easily accessible.

A good tower holds up pretty well, and BDSP has a very good one. It's not like Platinum's Frontier was as good as Emerald's tbh.

The post-game may not be as repeatable, but it is pretty good.
Yeah, the Tower also looks good in this game. I really can't give a definitive edge to one post game versus the other from what I've seen so far.

Not to mention battle tower locks your levels to the opponent, so unlike the rematches you won't have a level advantage.
You don't have to have a level advantage against the rematch teams either, unless you actively seek one. I think it will be perfectly possible to fight them at around the same level as they are if you don't grind excessively.
 
Do remember that the Dexit announcement wasn't well received in japan at the time.

And with "wasn't well received", I mean something slightly more awful than "20 angry men on a forum"
https://nintendosoup.com/junichi-ma...ts-ahead-of-pokemon-sword-and-shields-launch/

To the point there were (unconfirmed) rumours of death threats, graphic drawings of violent acts against Masuda and Omori, with people initiating a support campaign on the internet to try and cheer up the morale of the employees.
 
I don’t like the look of BDSP and I found ORAS a little weak, and ideally there should never be any significant cut content in these kind of remakes… but I was always fine with the Frontier’s removal and highly agree with GF’s reasoning for it: it’s a lot of resources for something basically no-one plays.

Like… let’s be real here. I won’t get into semantics about postgame content and having some kind of battle facility, because there is always a place for that; but for most people interested in that the Tower does just fine. Most other facilities amount to gimmicks adjacent to Tower and many are downright *annoying* at that with the RNG thrown at you. There’s obviously fans of those but they are in the minority and it’s hardly a priority for most people seeking something a game has to offer.

I feel a compromise could be made, mind — like I said many are just Tower-with-a-gimmick so you could put a couple of them in the tower as alternate rules to flesh the place out a bit. It should in theory be very easy to code in Factory as just “use rental pokemon” as an option, perhaps with a different boss character too.

But by and large I would consider the Frontier the lowest priority for things to keep, and honestly far lower priority than new content as well. I would much rather see a “Griseous Episode” or something than the Frontier in an alternate universe where BDSP was given reasonable dev time and resources, and I guarantee you most players would agree.
 
Like… let’s be real here. I won’t get into semantics about postgame content and having some kind of battle facility, because there is always a place for that; but for most people interested in that the Tower does just fine. Most other facilities amount to gimmicks adjacent to Tower and many are downright *annoying* at that with the RNG thrown at you. There’s obviously fans of those but they are in the minority and it’s hardly a priority for most people seeking something a game has to offer.
The only Frontier facility I'm not happy about its absence is the rental facility, because you don't need to train your own Pokémon (so even someone who doesn't know about competitive training, or does not have the means to can get some BP).

The rest... can leave without me batting an eye about it.
 
Backlash will affect them the day it affects their sales.

As long as "backlash" = 20 angry old men fighting on a forum while everyone else is still having fun, that's not backslash, that's just 20 angry people fighting on a forum.

Unfortunately for these 20 angry old men, the Pokemon games are on a potential new record trend, so their anger will stay while GF and TPCI reap the money off their products instead.
While I agree that backlash will only have an impact once/if it ever affects profit, it's disingenuous to pigeonhole issues as the ramblings of "20 angry men" - as it is just as egregious to say that the people who enjoy current generations are "a small handful of mindless yes-men". There are plenty of other stances to take: you could still enjoy the games, but still have a problem with the issues, you could hate the games but don't mind the issues, or any of a number of stances in-between. Gatekeeping really serves no good purpose.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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I get the hate for the timer, I understand it, but it's far from the ginormous issue you people make it look like. GF doesn't care for your 6v6 singles nor your 6v6 doubles battles, they care of their official format, and want to keep it fast paced.
There's no reason they can't let us decide how long the timer should be. Before matches have a timer setting where you select how many minutes the battle will be: 20 to 60 (or 99 if they want to go up to the numerical max).

ILCA: And this is your idea for the Distortion World.
GF: No.
ILCA: But...
GF: 1:1 DP remake.
ILCA: *Sigh* Okay...
GF: But you can keep the boss fight.
ILCA: What? But without the Distortion World the boss fight doesn't make sense!
GF: WE HAVE SPOKEN.

That's really cool and at the same time makes no sense at all xD is that Giratina made of dark matter or something? xDDD


No need to presume. Reddit has footage.
Should have sent out their Giratina first just for the memes.

Normal Giratina: Who... who are you?
Shadow Giratina: I'm you, but 28 Levels better.

Ngl if they gave that Tauros Sheer Force, it'd actually be legitimately monkaS
It feels like it's supposed to.

A question I feel like gamefreak is asking themselves every day since it's presumably beholden to Nintendo keeping 3DS online servers up.

e: I feel like the second best case scenario (the best is Nintendo just not killing the servers) is that the Bank servers are actually all gamefreak's and the 3DS can continue to connect to it provided you had Bank before the 3DS Shop closes
Question, was there a way for the 3DS to directly connect to the Switch? I quick Google searched didn't show me anything definitive.
 
Yeah, what Platinum has in its favour is a slightly better story and better first teams.
If we look at this correctly, BDSP addresses and succeeds in solving what was wrong with DP:
  • Slow paced game;
  • Limited pokédex, narrowing our teambuilding options (I remember fire types only being 2 families: Chimchar and Ponyta lines);
  • Challenging game (BDSP has better team movesets and strats, most of them competitive, even on first matches);
  • The HM usage required to traverse the game was too high for bad attacks that couldn't be easilly forgotten back then;
  • Making competitive teams was too time consuming and tedious without the Sw/Sh QoL we have nowadays
Nobody can complain that BDSP doesn't solve DP problems. It's a good game in that aspect. On top of that, we got the Underground expansion and revamped Contests.
In the other hand, we can think about that BDSP is mainly DP with gen 8 QoL. What we can complain about is that probably BDSP could have a little more new content, like bringing back megas, improving the Galactic plot (like Platinum already does), or adding some kind of post game episodes and inherit some of Platinum's improvements like the Battle Frontier and first-battle team compositions. Also, some developing choices are indeed questionable, like:
  • the chibi artstyle, making it for awkward cutscenes and weird pokémon-human scale when pokémon are following you (in my opinion this visual aspect shows no improvement since HGSS in 2009);
  • the Amie bullshit being bound to the following pokémon;
  • the untoggable full party expShare.

In short, this game can either feel satisfying or disappointing. It all depends on what you look at it and what aspects matter to you. I'm a bit disappointed because I expected more for Sinnoh, but I think this will be a good Sinnoh experience afterall. They deserve my props for the cool AI teambuilding strats, I was not expecting that at all!
All good points. I don't care that much for Mega's or following Pokémon, so those don't personally affect me.

But I do think the chibi art is pretty goofy, even if it's not a deal breaker for me. And I say this as a huge detractor of mandatory Exp. All, but I legit think we'll need it in this game. I think they're using the Gen 5 scaling mechanic too so I don't think we'll become over levelled. But we're literally going to have be in the late 50s (at least) for a full team of six to take down Cynthia in her first matchup alone, if we're playing on Set mode with no healing items. I think by battling all the possible trainers without grinding, the Exp. All will get us to that point, but I have to test that out myself.

The one problem with this is balancing a team of weird experience groups (Fast, Slow, etc.) where you'll be overutilizing the Slow mons in order for them to keep pace. Which is a fair point. But I initially thought the Exp. All would make this game unplayable for me and I definitely no longer feel that way.

This whole debate seems to be boiling down similarly to ORAS vs. Emerald as far as the definitive game of their respective regions. Which I have to say is an impressive showing for a Sinnoh remake, as I did not think this game would come close to measuring up to Platinum.

But by and large I would consider the Frontier the lowest priority for things to keep, and honestly far lower priority than new content as well. I would much rather see a “Griseous Episode” or something than the Frontier in an alternate universe where BDSP was given reasonable dev time and resources, and I guarantee you most players would agree.
I mean I wouldn't agree with that. In an alternate universe, I definitely would prefer extra dev time and resources would be spent on a full fledged Frontier if possible. But all things considered, this game has done a great job of making up for the lack of that. Arguably more so than any other game actually, in my opinion.
 
I mean I am a huge fan of both Frontiers, don't get me wrong. And losing out on a Battle Factory experience is unfortunate.

But these rematch teams have perfect IVs, EV trained, and seem to utilize competitive strats. It almost reminds me of the PWT in a way, and even there they didn't have perfect IVs. As long as you don't cheese the fights with Switch mode, healing items, or over level to oblivion, I think it'll be possible to simulate a similarly challenging experience.

And even the Frontier isn't without its faults. You have to wade through a bunch of no name battles before reaching the good ones. It's nice that these rematch battles will be more easily accessible.



Yeah, the Tower also looks good in this game. I really can't give a definitive edge to one post game versus the other from what I've seen so far.



You don't have to have a level advantage against the rematch teams either, unless you actively seek one. I think it will be perfectly possible to fight them at around the same level as they are if you don't grind excessively.
I very much like the rematches, its fair to congratulate them when they do this right, and they have done this right. It's not to say that the battle frontier is perfect, but its replayability value for obvious reasons and the amount of raw options that it offers surpases a rematch. Keep in mind that rematches loses their value at the first playthrough, unless you are devoted to, i dont know, maybe keep permanently leveling up mons to level 84 to rematch the same leaders again, whereas the facilities are designed with the purpose of replaying them as long as you want and even incorporate an streak system to reinforce this. Like, the Battle Tower is absolutely fantastic (to the point the pressence of a classical battle tower was the only thing i needed to buy this remakes), but when you pair it with its brothers, Pokémon becomes a binding of isaac. Its endless.
 
Question, was there a way for the 3DS to directly connect to the Switch? I quick Google searched didn't show me anything definitive.
I do not believe the 3DS is capable of connecting with the Switch.

This is likely partially why Bank & Home have to implement a password system in order to transfer Pokemon from Bank to Home: the 3DS can't just connect to Switch so it needs to leap frog via a connected server that does the hand off.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
From the top reply:

"After 49 winning streaks, you can access 'Master Class'.
Master Class have 10 ranks; When you get a seven-win streak, your rank will go up by one. On the other hand, if you lose seven times in a row, your rank will go down by one.
And each ranks exists definite Master Trainer (not random).
Based on the order of the text data, the Trainer order is
Single: Roark - Gardenia - Maylene - Byron - Candice - Fantina - Crasher Wake - Volkner - Cynthia - Palmer
Double: Roark&Byron - Mira&Cheryl - Fantina&Gardenia - Saturn&Jupiter - Candice&Maylene - Riley&Marley - Buck&Bertha - Flint&Volkner - Mars&Cyrus - Barry&Palmer
You can check text data: Archive-5583\bdsp_parses\message\language\language_dp_scenario3.txt - line after no.1020"

And I thought the PWT was a bit sketchy for allowing Giovanni in... Who the hell did Palmer pay off jesus
 
Saturn at least turned over a new leaf so he's fine.

Jupiter & Mars are funnier since it kind of sounds like everything split up a bit and they more cared about Cyrus.


Cyrus is extremely funny since he uh
"What is truly ultimate to you? What do you consider perfection? The most important thing... What shines the brightest... Telling you is meaningless. But I will not give up. I will become a deity one day... And I will make the ultimate mine..."
 
From the top reply:

"After 49 winning streaks, you can access 'Master Class'.
Master Class have 10 ranks; When you get a seven-win streak, your rank will go up by one. On the other hand, if you lose seven times in a row, your rank will go down by one.
And each ranks exists definite Master Trainer (not random).
Based on the order of the text data, the Trainer order is
Single: Roark - Gardenia - Maylene - Byron - Candice - Fantina - Crasher Wake - Volkner - Cynthia - Palmer
Double: Roark&Byron - Mira&Cheryl - Fantina&Gardenia - Saturn&Jupiter - Candice&Maylene - Riley&Marley - Buck&Bertha - Flint&Volkner - Mars&Cyrus - Barry&Palmer
You can check text data: Archive-5583\bdsp_parses\message\language\language_dp_scenario3.txt - line after no.1020"

And I thought the PWT was a bit sketchy for allowing Giovanni in... Who the hell did Palmer pay off jesus
It's interesting but why Buck&Bertha when Flint is Buck's brother.
Sad there's no Aaron&Lucian pair.

Wondering when we will see their Teams.
 
Buck & Bertha are an interesting combination.

Mira/Cheryl, Riley/Marley are just kinda whatever. They needed to pair up and the stat trainers made sense. And Gardenia/Fantina are a real pair the spare situation.

Obviously Buck had to be paired with someone, and Flint (his brother) was already taken because of Volkner, but grabbing Bertha's just an interesting pick.
 
Buck & Bertha are an interesting combination.

Mira/Cheryl, Riley/Marley are just kinda whatever. They needed to pair up and the stat trainers made sense. And Gardenia/Fantina are a real pair the spare situation.

Obviously Buck had to be paired with someone, and Flint (his brother) was already taken because of Volkner, but grabbing Bertha's just an interesting pick.
His ace is Claydol. Being a Ground type, that's the only logical reason I can think of.
 
Do these pair-ups have dialogue between themselves i.e. Galarian Star Tournament? If so I could see Buck & Bertha having an "energetic youngster and old lady trying to keep up with the whippersnapper" kind of arrangement
I really hope so!

Frankly, i dunno how that works, but it's exactly what I wanted. Something similar to Galarian Star Tournament but with BT rules.
 

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