SPOILERS! Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl Data Dumps

Giratina93 said:
At least there is a soft workaround for the Exp. All. If you don't mind running a rotating 15-18 mon team, the levels are going to be around where they were with base D/P for your mons, thus making things all the more harder. It's not a perfect workaround by any means, but at least it alleviates Exp. All breaking the game intentionally.
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the idea of juggling that many pokemon honestly sounds so exhausting i'd rather just eat the extra levels and use a team of 6 i like
I tried the big team thing a few times before and the reason that was more annoying than fun was not because of running to the PC so the Box Link doesnt do much for me.

Balanced Freakmons said:
Damn! They took care about a detail! OMG what's this? XD



Celebi's dungeon in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Red/Blue rescue team is called Purity Forest iirc

And tbh Celebi and Deoxys are the only 2 legends/mythicals before gen 4 not covered by the other known slates (since Jirachi and Mew are given to you).
I still wonder what happens to Shaymin, Darkrai and Arceus. If they are in-game events, I hope the items are given to you.
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Darkrai & Shaymin at least have encounter data so that, combined with their locations still being in the location list, does at least imply we'll get them...somehow. I could see them being "special", since their actually in Sinnoh to begin with, and being tied to an actuall event they'll give out.


Arceus is weirder. The Hall of Origin location is in the location list, & this isnt a 1:1 copy of the DP list (order of everything is way different) but there's apparently no encoutner data for it.

Balanced Freakmons said:
Spear pillar should be different, I agree with you! They use to mess up a bit on this. In pokémon XY you fought Lysandre over the sun, when you were at a bottom of an underground hideout?????

But I get it, they're not showing a Spear Pillar background, because they are hiding Hall of Origin :blobshrug:
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Spear Pillar backdrop is used when you fight Dialga & Palkia.
 
AmbientDinosaur said:
I'm fascinated by how messy the level-up learnsets are. It is such a stark contrast between the ported SWSH learnsets and the modified Gen VII learnsets for returning pokémon.

The SWSH learnsets are simple and straightforward, with linear level-up patterns and few duplicate moves. Meanwhile, the learnsets of returning pokémon keep the more complex level-up patterns from Gen VII and earlier, and have lots of duplicate moves. More importantly, returning pokémon that change their level-up learnset after they evolve (like Breloom) don't have access to all of their preevos moves, a change that was welcome in SwSh.

Since the Gen VII learnsets had to be adjusted to switch out any of the snapped moves from SwSh, several pokémon got new level-up moves in compensation. However, since the order of the learnsets haven't been updated, some of these replacement moves can sometimes either feel too weak or too strong for that level (for example Yanma lv 30 String Shot, Cacnea lv 16 Poison Jab).
Also, some pokémon (like Drowzee) didn't get all new moves as replacements. Instead, it got duplicates of Hypnosis.

All around, a lot of strange decisions and oddities among the learnsets of returning pokémon in BDSP.
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It seems so wild that the SwSh learnsets established new patterns and boundaries that honestly streamline everything pretty nicely (as much as I hate Ultra Beasts not having their prime number level up learns anymore) and then just. Didn't do it at all.

And yeah the increasing move power sort didn't JUST happen in cases with roughshod replacements like Cacnea, you also have Probopass with 80BP Body Press just tacked on the end after 120BP Zap Cannon. That wasn't even replacing anything!
 
Balanced Freakmons said:
Well, to tie with Platinum, it would need updated team rosters imo. Like, give Volkner a proper team. "Oh octillery is there for ground types". Alright, Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Mow and air balloon Magnezone want to know your location. And Flint, Candice and some other E4 like Aaron suffer from the same weak team composition problems. It's not only the type mismatch, but also the mons they use. Candice is gym 7 and uses sneasel and snover. Crasher wake is gym 5 and has a more threatning team in Gyarados, Floatzel and Quagsire. Even Fantina has a better team. Aaron uses Beautyfly and Dustox...for real?
And ofc, it would need the affection feature be separated from the walking mons. That's just bizarre, and a lazy way to implement the Amie features, that influences directly a very appreciated feature.
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The affection one, at least it's a toggle, otherwise that would be devastating as well.

And I'm gonna cut them a *bit* of slack with the wonky DP rosters because I'm presuming those will get shored up with their rematch teams.

R_N said:
Spear Pillar backdrop is used when you fight Dialga & Palkia.
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I know it's used for fighting Dialga/Palkia, but that doesn't exactly make up for them not using it for the Galactic boss battles. Particularly in comparison to Platinum, that final Cyrus battle backdrop in Distortion World is one of the most memorable in the series for me.

R_N said:
Get the feeling ILCA did not receive much guidance on movesets, and probably didn't have a lot of experience with it either I guess? Or time. Or a mix of it all.

Shame we'd probably never get an interview about this game, there's lot of things I'm curious about what it was like.
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I'd like to know who was in charge of these move set decisions. That person or people need to be in charge of more things moving forward.
 
Balanced Freakmons said:
Same!
If they wanna keep their jobs, they better not do that interview. This outcome game seems to suck a lot, and the development problems are public.
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I highly doubt an interview like that would have the people just bad mouth everything, even if it was a bad environment.
And for all we know it was a fine environment, but just various issues happened.

The game itself seems fine. It runs start to finish, it's dp, stylistically its not for everyone but it does what they want to do, balh blah blah. I imagine that GameFreak & ILCA are both over all fine with how it turned out, especially if Covid play such a factor (I strongly suspect this is the big reason why the new battle music isnt inserted and why there's no intro, they were probably lower priority than getting the game into a Done state) and especially with another party at the helm. Even if they were on a tight leash it probably wasn't pure hell, even if there was clearly some rough spots.
 
Wukong said:
The affection one, at least it's a toggle, otherwise that would be devastating as well.

And I'm gonna cut them a *bit* of slack with the wonky DP rosters because I'm presuming those will get shored up with their rematch teams.
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Speaking of which, i'm very curious for that as well. Where the hell is that cursed information file? What are they waiting for?

Wukong said:
I'd like to know who was in charge of these move set decisions. That person or people need to be in charge of more things moving forward.
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Agree! They did a cool job making teams more big brain in that aspect.
Probably the only employee worth re-hiring :psysly:
 
R_N said:
Get the feeling ILCA did not receive much guidance on movesets, and probably didn't have a lot of experience with it either I guess? Or time. Or a mix of it all.

Shame we'd probably never get an interview about this game, there's lot of things I'm curious about what it was like.
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I think its probably for similar reasons that they kept DPP teams. I think the goal was importing the existing data structures into Unity rather than cleaning them up. I cannot say how the developers at ICLA are handling this, but from my experience working on Game Jams, Hackathons, etc. its much better to keep the scope small and actually achieve a deadline with a working product that's polished than pursuing an ambitious idea that doesn't even work or look good.
 
AmbientDinosaur said:
I'm fascinated by how messy the level-up learnsets are. It is such a stark contrast between the ported SWSH learnsets and the modified Gen VII learnsets for returning pokémon.

The SWSH learnsets are simple and straightforward, with linear level-up patterns and few duplicate moves. Meanwhile, the learnsets of returning pokémon keep the more complex level-up patterns from Gen VII and earlier, and have lots of duplicate moves. More importantly, returning pokémon that change their level-up learnset after they evolve (like Breloom) don't have access to all of their preevos moves, a change that was welcome in SwSh.

Since the Gen VII learnsets had to be adjusted to switch out any of the snapped moves from SwSh, several pokémon got new level-up moves in compensation. However, since the order of the learnsets haven't been updated, some of these replacement moves can sometimes either feel too weak or too strong for that level (for example Yanma lv 30 String Shot, Cacnea lv 16 Poison Jab).
Also, some pokémon (like Drowzee) didn't get all new moves as replacements. Instead, it got duplicates of Hypnosis.

All around, a lot of strange decisions and oddities among the learnsets of returning pokémon in BDSP.
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Some of the Gen 8 movesets also stand out because of the absurd Levels moves are learned. A lot of the the DLC movesets look like, and probably were, made for Pokemon caught at Level 60 in SwSh's Postgame instead of anything that would ever make them usable in BDSP. You may want to avoid evolving Shinx until Level 48 if you want Wild Charge because it's Level 68 for Luxio or 80 for Luxray. You're better off sticking with Volt Switch for STAB so you can switch to something that actually learns its moves. Zubat and Nidoran desperately need TMs too because every 5 Levels with their moves doesn't let you get any good moves without TMs and it's even slower if you evolve them, which most people would.

Were they not allowed to touch the Level Up Moves from SwSh? The stuff changed and not changed... Why? The trainer's movesets were improved a ton, so why is so much unchanged or ported then unchanged?
 
roark.png

From 4chan, Roark rematch. 6 mons and leads with a level 68 Tyranitar. I take anything from 4chan with a grain of salt, but the first text line matches the spanish text dump so it's at least a well-done fake if so.
 
CoolMan6001 said:
So uhh...

who's the donor for Strength Sap and Boomburst?

I think I might need to transfer something for those.
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Those two definitely seem like an oops from importing movesets that they didn't clean up.


Chatot should really learn Boomburst naturally....

sb879 said:
View attachment 384238

From 4chan, Roark rematch. 6 mons and leads with a level 68 Tyranitar. I take anything from 4chan with a grain of salt, but the first text line matches the spanish text dump so it's at least a well-done fake if so.
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Ohh, meaty.
For reference/reminder, leader rematches in Platinum were 5 Pokemon and levels ranged from 61 to 65
Tyranitar was on Roark's team, but it was his ace (for some reason a number of rematches changed their ace) at level 65.
 
R_N said:
Those two definitely seem like an oops from importing movesets that they didn't clean up.
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i mean atleast we got Smeargle for the cases like Icicle Crash (thankfully since Weavile needed some way to get that. Stuck with Throat Chop though unless transfers are possible)
 
CoolMan6001 said:
i mean atleast we got Smeargle for the cases like Icicle Crash (thankfully since Weavile needed some way to get that. Stuck with Throat Chop though unless transfers are possible)
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Even if 2-way transfers wind up being possible that update isn't coming until ???? 2022 (February at the absolute earliest)
 
atagok2 said:
Budew no longer learns any level-up moves? And Roserade loses weather ball? It has had it for every generation since dppt....
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I noticed a problem regarding Roserade loosing Weather ball

1. If the Pokemon knew the move by level up in gen 7 or earlier AND
2. The Pokemon could only get the move in SwSh with a TM/TR

Then the Pokemon looses that move

There's quite a few cases of this (Toxic Spikes Tentatcruel and Fire Fang Garchomp) that arose as a result of the devs wanting to do an any% wr speedrun on making the learnsets

EDIT: sniped
 
R_N said:
Get the feeling ILCA did not receive much guidance on movesets, and probably didn't have a lot of experience with it either I guess? Or time. Or a mix of it all.

Shame we'd probably never get an interview about this game, there's lot of things I'm curious about what it was like.
Click to expand...
Needless to say, the movesets don't seem to be made by the same person (or team) who made the SwSh ones. Whether it was ILCA or someone else at Game Freak who drafted them remains to be known.

Also, there were some SwSh learnsets that got additions too, like Flygon learning Outrage at lv 1. This is also a sign of the moveset designer(s)'s unfamiliarity with the SwSh learnsets, since they placed Outrage right in between the two Dragon Claw entries.
Screenshot_20211110-005000_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
CoolMan6001 said:
I noticed a problem regarding Roserade loosing Weather ball

1. If the Pokemon knew the move by level up in gen 7 or earlier AND
2. The Pokemon could only get the move in SwSh with a TM/TR

Then the Pokemon looses that move

There's quite a few cases of this (Toxic Spikes Tentatcruel and Fire Fang Garchomp) that arose as a result of the devs wanting to do an any% wr speedrun on making the learnsets

EDIT: sniped
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Think that has any chance of being fixed on release? Weather ball on roserade was my only form of fire coverage on my monograss run throughs :psycry:
 
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