Resource BSS Viability Rankings

[PPB]

I'm going to go ahead and nomimate Haxorus for C again. Mold Breaker is great when Mimi is king and prevents it from being outclassed by Dragonite. Dragonium Z allows it to deal massive damage while sweeping and allows it to put off being locked into Outrage for 1 turn. I think it has a niche.

Interestingly, Gigalith has Custap as a tool now. I have no opinion on Gigalith though.

 

[Ieki]

I'm going to go ahead and nomimate Haxorus for C again. Mold Breaker is great when Mimi is king and prevents it from being outclassed by Dragonite. Dragonium Z allows it to deal massive damage while sweeping and allows it to put off being locked into Outrage for 1 turn. I think it has a niche.

Except it still competes with Mega Gyardos, which has a better Mimikyu matchup, as a mold breaker dragon dancer. Haxorus has to rely on DD or iron tail’s shaky accuracy to KO.
From experience (disclaimer not high quality battles & >1 yr ago) it isn’t a reliable answer to Mimikyu.

 

[PPB]

Except it still competes with Mega Gyardos, which has a better Mimikyu matchup, as a mold breaker dragon dancer. Haxorus has to rely on DD or iron tail’s shaky accuracy to KO.
From experience (disclaimer not high quality battles & >1 yr ago) it isn’t a reliable answer to Mimikyu.

It gets access to shadow claw though. And yes it relies on DD to KO, but mega gyarados does as well. Unlike gyarados, haxorus does not take up a mega slot. Also, saying haxo competes with gyarados just because they both have mold breaker and dd overlooks the fact that Haxorus is very different from Gyarados, to the point where I think they are not in direct competition with one another. Haxorus's pure Dragon typing is different offensively (and defensively) from Gyarados's Water (and dark, although Crunch is less common) typing. While it is a risky typing to have because of the dominance of fairy mons, if you can successfully lure out and destroy those fairies, Outrage's neutral coverage is dangerous. Haxorus plays as a purely offensive mon, and while it loses out on Gyarados's ability to also be a defensive pivot, it also hits a whole lot harder than gyarados, thanks to Outrage being much stronger than waterfall and also its ability to wield Dragonium Z, also allowing it to severely dent walls before going down. Admittedly Haxorus is worse than Gyarados in most situations, but they do different things, which I think gives Haxorus a niche.

Ultimately I am not arguing that Haxorus is a great mon (Gyarados, on the other hand, is a great mon.) I'm arguing that it's viable, and I think it fits neatly into C tier with the likes of other niche mons like Eevee and Buzzwole.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

Except it still competes with Mega Gyardos, which has a better Mimikyu matchup, as a mold breaker dragon dancer. Haxorus has to rely on DD or iron tail’s shaky accuracy to KO.
From experience (disclaimer not high quality battles & >1 yr ago) it isn’t a reliable answer to Mimikyu.

Well that isn't strictly true. Haxorus can use steelium-z for a guaranteed OHKO whereas Iron Head from mega Gyara is only a roll and won't ko bulky mimikyu, Mega Gyara does not outspeed naturally Mimikyu either and gets bopped by LSF. Of course I agree that Mega Gyara is a far better in the meta altogether but there are perks to Haxorus as opposed to Mega Gyara specifically in the Mimikyu matchup.

 

[Psycho FOX]

Hello everyone, so long, well I leave my nominations before the end of the year.

- Greninja from A + to S- / S
With the passing of the seasons, Greninja has shown great versatility, being able to act as lead, sweeper, revenge killer, etc. Accompanying a large number of offensive and passive movements, and an excellent ability as is Protean, in my opinion it deserves an increase of rank.
- Pheromosa from B + to A-
Pheromosa is a case similar to Greninja (perhaps less valued), a variety of movements and a good skill, used at the right time I can destroy almost a whole team.
- Pelipper from B to B +
Why choose Pelipper over Politoed? Many wonder, my answer is that their role is more beneficial to rain teams, Pelipper is not only satisfied with putting rain, but his flying stab helps him finish with threats like Amoonguss or Mega Venusaur, apart from being able to remove objects with Knock Off to annoying pokemon like Porygon 2.
- Amoonguss from B + to A-
It fulfills the same role as Mega Venusaur but without depending on a mega, possibility of sleeping 100% and ability to use objects, nothing more to say about this great Wall
- Serperior from B + to A-
It does not have the best variety of movements but with those that it has enough and enough to disregard offensive roles as lead or sweeper and more defensive as screener or utility with movements like Knock Off or Glare for giving examples.
- Toxapex from A- to A
This thing is impressive as wall, the truth is that I was very surprised when I started to use it, it can make fun of an entire team if it does not have something decent against it, enchanted and in my opinion worthy of promotion.
- Mega Manectric from B to B +
Koko or Thundurus are better many think and if they are partly right, but Manectric has known how to earn my respect as an electric pokemon, his set is quite predictable but it is very helpful apart from having great skills like Lighting Rod and Intimidate which are very helpful against pokemon like Koko or Mimikyu.
Mega Alakazam from B- to B
I mention it again because it is very good to be in B-, and not only depends on Lele or Baton Pass teams to be a good pokemon, what is perhaps that if your biggest fear is Mimikyu but good once removed from the Alakazam field can cause fear if it is well used.

 

[Psynergy]

While this thread is getting a little bit of activity I just want to state that I do want to get the next vote started soon, expect it sometime after the new year. There hasn't been many notable meta changes since the last vote but that makes it an even better time to take a look at things, so if you've got anything to nominate be sure to do it soon!

 

[marilli]

Snorlax B+ -> A-

This thing's kinda really good and surprisingly versatile in its moveset for a physical normal-type. Not only has it consistently risen in usage as the playerbase becomes more informed, it is now higher usage than just about everything else in A- except Lucario and Tyranitar, which need a big investment of the Mega Stone in order to be a relevant threat + relies heavily on being fortunate enough for good matchup / hitting relevant moves to be a true threat. It's just more consistent for less investment than just about everything else on A- so it should be at least moved to there.

Suicune A- -> B+

This thing plummeted in usage for a good reason. Even the SubCM set isn't quite enough to save it. It has minimal niche that sets it apart from other physical walls such as Hippowdon, Porygon2, etc. who are better at the support role, and Tapu Fini which is a much more reliable CM Attacker. If you want to stall out with Sub-CM in front of bulky threats like Porygon2, Glalie actually does a far more reliable job of beating those. At least Pokemon like Nihilego and Mega Venusaur, despite their relatively low usage, at least has something very unique about them you cannot get with anything else. This is not true for Suicune, and so it should drop. While the SubCM Set is still strong with T-Spikes or other support, we see really annoyingly good threats in B- that are stuck there because it needs a team support and you're basically throwing away a team slot in order to provide a rare support.

Xurkitree B- -> B

#1 Electrium Z 35.49 %

Electrium Z finally overtakes Psychium Z as the most common Xurkitree item, and it's not hard to see why. Unlike everything else in B-, which is are literally only good in conjunction with some other Pokemon, Xurkitree is far more useful as a standalone threat. It breaks bulky balance teams like no other, if one chooses to stop using that Z-Hypnosis gimmick that only is truly strong in conjunction with another Pokemon's support. Of course it still has the option to go for hax which adds to its versatility, but very minorly.

Greninja A+ -> S

Greninja even overtakes Landorus-T as the 2nd most commonly used Pokemon for 2 seasons in a row now, and it's not hard to see why. Landorus-T has generally superior stats and bulk at its disposal, but is nowhere near the active threat that Greninja is. There's really no way to reliably check the many sets that Greninja can viably use, and when you think you've got it, it can just u-turn out or throw out a toxic on the switch, and continue being a nuisance. It's able to be tailor-made to get the matchup on just about every relevant threat in the metagame, and laughs at team preview.

Naganadel A+ -> A

While none of these are recent developments but Naganadel just isn't as strong as everything else in A+ which basically makes their way onto most standard teams. Yes Naganadel completely takes over the game when it does, and it has amazing type matchup and can easily sweep with a single free turn - but I think it's very similar to Volcarona in that aspect, which sits at A despite that same strength. Unlike Volcarona, Naganadel does not even have the option of going bulky and thus hogs the Z-move, and yet cannot beat Mimikyu. If Mimikyu were some kind of a rly bad Pokemon that you could exploit your opponent for using it, it's probably still A+ material but it's not. The meta has shifted significantly (partly in order to check Naganadel itself, partly meta becoming more specially defensive to check Greninja) and that just hasn't been as good for Naganadel, such as Shadow Ball + Sneak Aegislash, SpDef fats (like Spdef hippo, Lax, etc.)

This is mainly a Snorlax nom, everything else is bait.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

Snorlax B+ -> A-

My only nom here. If I was honest, I'd be tempted to say that Snorlax is better than anything in A-. People have just started realising that Hippowdon and Porygon2 made a very fat baby and here it is. Curse set in particular is horrifying, only thing other than like mega gyarados behind dual screens where you can pretty consistently set up twice in one game. Fighting types (which aren't amazing anyways) aren't even that good a switch-in to the curse set, lax literally beats every single relevant fighting type if they were to switch in on a curse unless they are sash. Mega Blazikens high jump kick doesn't even KO after a curse, proccing bulky berry whilst +1 EQ ohkos. Bulky berry recycling also really op as you can set up or spread yawns and heal consistently at the same time. Also has the second perk of normalium-z sets, which beat like 90% of the things that teams rely on to beat/wear down bulky normals (like knock off and toxic) and in general a wide gen 1 movepool and three excellent abilities so you can run a lot of strange options if you wanted to. Belly drum recycle, z-stockpile, work up mixed/special recycle, thick fat av, z-self destruct, choice band, z-happy hour.

It's just so versatile in not only sets but what role it can perform within a team and a game: special wall, phaser, status spreader, setup sweeper, wallbreaker, stallbreaker.

Should note that a large portion of the lead metagame (gren, koko, landorus-t) are snorlax food also, which only helps to further its case.

 

[Psycho FOX]

I have a proposal for the next update (surely they already had it in mind but it is not too bad to propose it)
Why not separate the C Range in its divisions C-, C, C +? It's a pretty simple idea that apart gives a better and more accurate idea of how viable some Pokémon are that are in the C range
Here I leave my list of how to "my opinion" would be the pokemon of rank C if the idea was approved.

- C +
Diggersby (New)
Gastrodon
Incineroar
Milotic
Quagsire
Rhyperior
Stakataka
Vivillon

- C
Aerodactyl Mega
Beedril Mega (New)
Buzzwole
Gardevoir Mega
Golisopod
Haxorus (New)
Shuckle

- C-
Blissey (New)
Ditto
Eevee
Gengar
Jellicent (New)
Sableye Mega
Weavile (New)
Wobbuffet

 

[Biber]

I want to nominate Nihilego from A- to B+.

There was a discussion a few seasons ago where I was on the side of keeping it in A-, but I think the meta got harder for it with all the special sponge Snorlax and double/triple steel running around.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

I want to nominate Nihilego from A- to B+.

There was a discussion a few seasons ago where I was on the side of keeping it in A-, but I think the meta got harder for it with all the special sponge Snorlax and double/triple steel running around.

I think nihilego honestly has been underwhelming for a while.

I was far more lenient on some of the arguments given for Nihilego staying A- than I am now and kind of equivocated on it. I think it's even worse than what I said back then and it in no respect deserves to be in A-. B+ is a fine place for it to be.

 

[Psynergy]

Despite a few delays on my end, the first vote of 2019 is up! This was a smaller vote than usual despite the longer period since the last vote, which is unsurprising for a mostly settled meta going into another year, but that's fine by me since that makes it easier to put things together. Very few things moved this time, but Greninja is notably moving to S tier amidst its gradual rise in usage. There's really not too much else to add, but I do have a couple quick notes to add.

The suggestion of splitting C rank comes up often, so we discussed that more recently. I know I've stated before that C rank in its current state doesn't have a ton of reason to be split, and that still holds. The current C rank simply isn't large enough to require splitting it down further, and the viability of the Pokemon in C rank are also mostly similar. There are some slight standouts like Vivillon, but not many outliers. As stated before though, if people make enough convincing nominations for C rank Pokemon we'll definitely look into splitting it in the future.

Also, there may be another quick but informal update in the near future adjusting the ranks of a few Pokemon that are a bit dated. In the interest of getting this update in before the Open starts I kept this vote short, but except a couple more changes later on. Incidentally the recently nominated Nihilego will be discussed, and if any other nominations are made before then we will definitely consider those as well. Otherwise, as always, feel free to let me know if there are any issues in this update!

Mega Metagross: A+ -> S

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cant say: i'm super unsure. I think meta is better than all the A+ options but it's worse than the S options.... so S- ?? lol. I think that defaults it to A+ though. Sure it has great stats, typing and punches holes, it's inability to boost its stats (outside agility / hone claws) and outright sweep keeps it from being S to me

chemcoop: A+. Has great coverage and is one of the most threatening megas for its versatility but it often misses KOs and still can get outsped and dunked on by a lot of common mons like Gengar, Greninja, Koko, etc. Inability to set up limits Mega Meta to A+.

DragonWhale: A+. It's stats are insane but it can't hold an item or abuse broken moves (closest that comes to it is iron head), it lacks the presence that s-ranks impose on the metagame.

greilmercenary9: A+. Metagross is an amazing mega but while it has insane coverage and versatility, it also doesn’t have any decent boosting moves, which makes it harder for it to totally take over the game the way Salamence can. There are several common threats that outspeed and threaten, and being weak to Shadow Sneak means the plus matchup against Mimikyu can be ruined with enough chip unless a slot is devoted to Bullet Punch. It’s definitely towards the top of A+ IMO, but I don’t think this belongs in S.

NOVED: no, it's really good but A+ is fair, even with all the options meta has for coverage it's not as crazy versatile and threatening as something like greninja. A+ feels like the right fit for it

Psynergy: Nah, Metagross is great but not that great. It can handle anything it chooses to but always has to deal with getting completely walled by something because it can't reliably boost. Its typing is also has some pretty notable weaknesses despite the amazing resistances it gets, A+ is fine.

Solerme: Stay A+. Strong, but not as strong as the S tier we have and have had.

Theorymon: A+. I agree its above the other A+ mons, but I think Mega Metagross has a couple issues holding it back from S. Mainly, the Ghost-type weakness and the lack of good set up moves (I don't count Hone Claws lol).

Naganadel: A+ -> A

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cant say: This is close for me too. I think the respect you need to give it at team preview, and how you need to restrict its freedom to get a NP off keeps it A+. It's a little harder to use with all the Heatran / Ttar / Fini / fat teams these days but I still think it's a borked mon

chemcoop: A. More special bulk in the metagame as well as the presence of speedy Naga revenge killers like Sash or Scarf Gren really keep this thing from just blowing through teams like it used to.

DragonWhale: A. Very capable sweeper that blows through teams but requires team support that chips opponents first and gren+mimi stop it pretty often.

greilmercenary9: A. The meta has fully adapted to Naga and its potential to snowball out of control with boosts, and thus its threat level has gradually decreased over USM in a kind of inverted Kommo-O phenomenon. Without getting up Nasty Plot it just doesn’t quite have the firepower it needs to blast through many bulkier targets, and threats that can outrun it like Greninja and Scarf Landorus-T can make it very difficult for Naganadel to choose whether to boost or try to nail a switch-in in certain situations since it really needs that first KO to get out of control. Still very strong, but a drop to A is fair here.

NOVED: I agree with A. After a lot more time to take this mon in I feel like around thund t territory is right.

Psynergy: Normally I don't like to vote on something that spectacularly failed to pass in the previous vote, but it's been long enough and the nomination for this is fair. I voted in favor of this drop last time and my opinion is still the same, there's just so many ways to keep Naganadel in check so I think A is suitable.

Solerme: i've written in the last votes why it should stay A+, and i honestly still think that this is A+ material

Theorymon: A. This is one I'm really conflicted about, but I find the checks against Naganadel like Heatran good enough, and its bulk lacking enough where I think it may be below the other A+ mons at the moment. Naganadel is extremely deadly still, but I can't help but feel like it has less room for error than a lot of other simiarly ranked mons atm.

Haxorus: UR -> C

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cant say: agree. nothing special but decent booster and mold breaker is cool

chemcoop: UR. Requires too much team support and underperforms relative to every other dragon type or Mold Breaker mon. Doesn't have as much of a niche as the other C mons.

DragonWhale: UR. Dragons are dead this gen and you need a very good reason to use one. Haxorus does not have one.

greilmercenary9: UR. Mold Breaker is good, but it’s not such a great ability to justify using an otherwise mediocre mon. The other Mold Breaker abusers are very good Pokemon that just enjoy the extra utility it brings, but Dragons are already losing traction this generation and Haxorus isn’t worth using over other dragons that are just better.

NOVED: No, this mon is just not worth using over other dragons imo

Psynergy: Mold Breaker is cool but I don't think that's enough reason to justify being a pure Dragon-type with shaky bulk. Going to have to agree with the UR club here.

Solerme: DD+Mold Breaker. Not good as other Dragons, but C seems fair

Theorymon: UR. Mold Breaker is awesome, but being a frail, pure Dragon-type sure as hell isn't. I say it should stick to weird Battle Spot Specials :P

Greninja: A+ -> S

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cant say: I know i used the "can't boost stats and sweep" argument for Meta but that doesn't matter for Gren with its crazy coverage / unpredictability. I think this is the most splashable pokemon in the format alongside mimikyu. put it in S

chemcoop: S. Newest edition to the S tier. Seeing ridiculous usage right now and just does so many things well that it makes it tough to predict at team preview. Scarf, Sash Torrent or Protean, LO, Z-Torrent, Protean Waterium, Protean w/ Coverage Z are just a few of the many things Gren does to fit whatever role it needs to on a team.

DragonWhale: S. I've said it's probably s rank before. Nothing seems to have made this Pokemon any less viable.

greilmercenary9: S. Greninja gets the nod to S rank due to its insane versatility, impressive speed tier, priority and utility options, and not even needing a mega slot in the process. Protean, Z-Torrent, and Sash Torrent are all high level sets, and even each of those primary archetypes can have little nuances that are unpredictable or otherwise turn the tide in Greninja’s favor, such as unexpected Hidden Power types on Protean or techs like Taunt or Toxic on Sash Torrent. You can check this thing, but without knowing the set there isn’t really a true counter.

NOVED: Kind of a tough choice but gonna say yes on this. Probably wouldn't have not that long ago but realistically this thing is a big threat and does way too many things to not be S for me

Psynergy: We've had a lot of disagreement on this in the past and I stand by not moving this before, but as with NOVED the recent meta developments have pushed me over to agreeing with this now. I never like using this thing, but it's consistently one of the most tricky Pokemon for offensive teams to deal with unless you're running something like Tapu Koko, which itself is also often forced to Volt Switch out because Focus Sash is a fun item. S rank is fair for this thing now.

Solerme: This is hard, very hard, but in the end i think that Gren deserves the S rank. It needs a Z move or a Life Orb to hit hard, but it does hit everything. Plus the Torrent set hits definitely hard. Frail, but has access to a priority. Gets support moves such as Taunt, Toxic Spikes and Rock Tomb. You can do everything with this mon, and it will most likely do it well. Fits in mostly every offensive team, and can work in other ones. S

Theorymon: I've been resistant to this in the past, but I don't think I can say no to this any longer. Greninja may be a lot more frail than the other S mons, but it's versatility is unmatched. It always induceses a level of paranoia when I see it in team preview.

Pheromosa: B+ -> A-

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cant say: nah. always felt underwhelming to me, and don't really see enough of it to bump it up

chemcoop: B+. Should stay B+ as the presence of bulky mons like Aegislash and Hippo that Pheromosa can't OHKO essentially means that Phero can't steamroll through teams. It has great coverage and can be a big threat to unprepared teams, but it doesn't take much to stop this thing (Mimikyu lol).

DragonWhale: B+. Good mon but has fundamental flaws. Not good enough for A-.

greilmercenary9: B+. Dying to a light wind while being Mimikyu fodder is not an ideal recipe for success. Pheromosa has enough power and coverage to be a huge threat even despite this, but if it gets outsped or runs up against decently powered priority it’s in trouble. B+ is fine for this kind of profile.

NOVED: No, B+ is fine this thing has a lot of issues

Psynergy: Nah I think B+ is fine here, I don't think anything has changed to make Pheromosa any better than it was before. It's a great hyper offensive Pokemon that lives and dies as a glass cannon, and everything that gives it trouble is still just as common as always.

Solerme: A-, This thing can be either super disappointing, since it's very frail, or a game changer. If you use it wisely it can close games alone. Hard to use, but Beast Boost is rewarding, specially with its speed and offensive stats.

Theorymon: I like Pheromosa quite a bit more in USUM compared to SM, but I still think its a tricky mon to use at times. I think B+ is fine for it.

Pelipper: B -> B+

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cant say: yeah i like this. feels useful at team preview even if you don't wanna bring your rain sweeper.

chemcoop: B. If the rest of the rain mons are B/B-, Pelipper should also be B with M-Swampert and Politoed as rain is its only niche.

DragonWhale: B+. It's only seen in rain but it has good moves like Uturn and STAB perfect accuracy hurricane that makes it a lot more flexible than just a drizzle setter.

greilmercenary9: B. It’s arguably a better rain setter than Politoed due to Hurricane, U-Turn, and the secondary Flying typing, but even if that’s true (which I don’t think I immediately grant to begin with) it doesn’t deserve to be a whole subrank above in my opinion, especially since Politoed still has some of its own unique tools that can help rain teams. I also agree with Chemcoop that with rain as its only niche it seems appropriate for it to be in with the other main rain abusing mons or setters in B.

NOVED: Pelippers rank is sort of reflective of how good rain is & atm rain feels like B imo

Psynergy: I still think this isn't any better than Politoed, and while I will say rain is solid in the current meta I don't think it's particularly outstanding which is also fairly reflective of Pelipper itself. This can stay in B.

Solerme: I'd honestly keep the higher ranks for stuff that can be good on its own. I don't see Pelipper in anything else than rain teams, for one purpose. B seems fair to me.

Theorymon: B+. Alright conterversial opinion alert! In addition to liking Pelipper more than Mega Swampert, I've always found that unlike Politoed, Pelipper has actually done some work itself whenever I've used it, even when I don't bring it with a rain sweeper. That being said, I wouldn't totally object to Politoed being B- and this remaining B either, but I think its clearly better than Politoed at least.

Amoonguss: B+ -> A-

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cant say: oof this is a big call but i kinda like it. feel like amoon has been gaining lots of traction lately. think i agree with the nom

chemcoop: B+. Really good mon, but struggles to do much against mons that it doesn't hard wall. Often can be a momentum drain and allows common mons like Mence or Zard to come in and either set up or fire off a huge hit.

DragonWhale: B+. Spore is broken but Koko and Fini are common enough and against common subs it can be an instaloss. Walling good mons is a plus though.

greilmercenary9: B+. It’s a solid mon and has lots of fun tools to differentiate itself from M-Venu, but anything that gets around Spore effectively without getting hard walled is usually going to give it trouble. Being great against stuff like Mimikyu is a huge plus, and Regenerator is great, but being exceptionally vulnerable to Electric/Misty Terrain users and mons with Sub hurt it.

NOVED: I think B+ is fine. I'm not as sold on this guy as a lot of ppl. It's super good vs Mimi and water only gren but I feel like it's easy to use Misty to take it on and it's offensive presence is pretty poor

Psynergy: I like Amoonguss but I think this is fine where it is. It has a consistent niche as a bulky Grass-type with access to Spore and the ability to check Mimikyu. Unless you can't afford to use the Mega slot though, I think Venusaur is still mostly better due to Thick Fat, and I think the current rankings reflect that.

Solerme: A-. I love this mon. it gets Spore, Clear Smog, Synthesis and Foul Play. It has Regenerator and offers a solid answer to offensive variants of mimikyu. It can sit over strong stuff like Mega Gyarados and Tapu Koko too. A- sounds fair to me.

Theorymon: B+. I've been saying that Amoonguss is pretty great for a while, but I think its a pretty specfic niche of being a defensive Grass-type that doesn't use a Mega Stone, and of course that delcious Spore and Foul Play. It never felt like something you can slap on teams on the level of most A mons to me.

Serperior: B+ -> A-

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cant say: A-. on paper i'm never that impressed with serp but i always seem to have trouble dealing with it... i think this is a fine nom

chemcoop: B+. Not hard to get a Glare off and disrupt your opponent's game plan, but Serp isn't strong enough to be an offensive sweeper nor is it a good enough support mon to merit a place in A rank. Most meta teams have some answer for Serp and won't allow it to disrupt more than one mon.

DragonWhale: B+. Glare is a good move but it isn't for Serp as a Pokemon so much as it's to support the team its a part of (often Glalie). Garbage coverage too lol.

greilmercenary9: B+. Serperior is a good support mon, but like with Amoonguss above, anything that has a good way to gain momentum against Glare without otherwise losing to it is probably in good shape, most notably fast Sub users. It’s coverage is also horrendous, so it probably isn’t doing almost any real damage to bulky Grass resists without getting to +6, which can make it setup fodder in its own right.

NOVED: Para isn't as good as it used to be. Mono grass attacker is just not strong enough(and yeah you can use hidden power or whatever but this thing is basically mono grass offensively most of the time) stay B+

Psynergy: There's definitely a fair place for Serperior in the meta and I think B+ is that place. A decently quick Grass-type with useful support options and some level of offensive snowballing, but being dependent on boosting to have offensive pressure is easy to abuse as a Grass-type so I think it's fine where it is.

Solerme: B+. Leaf Storm misses PTSD. Jk, i'm a fan of Serp, but it is super predictable. Glare is an awesome move and Contrary a wonderful ability, but it needs at least to be at +2 to OHKO stuff with Leaf Storm, and probably at +4 to get kills with a non-stab move. There is better stuff out there sitting in the A- tier. You can just bring in Celesteela, Aegislash or Heatran and beat it while eating even a couple of +6 LStorm.

Theorymon: B+. This is another one I'm conflicted about. I actually think Glare Serperior is pretty effective (and also I have PTSD in regards to Glalie LOL), but I don't find Serperior that hard to stop on its own, its more what its sorrounded by.

Toxapex: A- -> A

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cant say: A, i think this works

chemcoop: A. One of the few noms on this list I'm okay with. If Gliscor and Ferro are A for their ability to set hazards/toxic and pivot in on resisted/neutral attacks, then Pex should also be A since it does the same thing. Takes hits extremely well, regen is a phenomenal ability, and is a great defensive pivot that forces your opponent to switch into one of a select few Pokémon to handle Pex.

DragonWhale: A. There isn't a whole lot that takes this thing on and Regenerator is a broken ability for such a fantastic defensive pivot.

greilmercenary9: A-. I’m on the fence on this one, but I’m maybe a little more reticent than some of the rest of the group on moving this one up. It’s a wonderful defensive pivot, works well in a lot of cores, has an awesome ability in Regenerator, is immune to poison, and has Haze, to the point where a lot of the meta has trouble damaging this thing. But it’s also extremely passive, hitting like a wet noodle even when super effective, and is either reliant on Toxic for damage or on winning a long game of attrition. This is usually fine, but it can hurt Toxapex in a fair number of situations, even with Haze to help keep setup sweepers in check. As an example, Toxapex only has an outside chance to 2HKO M-Blaze with Scald, and M-Blaze is weak to the attack and isn’t exactly a durability champion to begin with. Toxapex’s other properties are so good that it may well deserve A anyway given how well it fits into bulky balance and stall builds, but I’m still on the fence and leaning towards keeping it A- at least for now.

NOVED: Interesting & tough choice here. Don't have a lot to say but I feel like A- is fine

Psynergy: Honestly this is a fair nom but I'm not on board with it. Toxapex is great but it's still not something you can easily throw on a team due to how passive it is, and I think there's more than enough meta threats that keep it down. I don't like to cite usage stats often but its usage doesn't exactly stand out as an A tier Pokemon, so I think this is fine in A-. Don't get me wrong, Toxapex on a proper team can be a real pain to deal with but I don't think it's thatgood to make up for how passive it is.

Solerme: A, solid defensive mon. Gets recovery and has a good ability. Can use Haze too. There is a reason why you often see this thing into stall/defensive cores.

Theorymon: I severely underestimated this mofo back in SM, but I still think Toxapex is more for stall teams and a few balanced teams, and nothing more. I'll admit I tend to prefer A- to A+ Pokemon to be mons that fit on a wide variety of teams, but I think Toxapex being A- is an alright exception because its so good at doing its defensive job. A just seems like its pushing it to me.

Mega Manectric: B -> B+

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cant say: idk about this one. i like mane myself but it's not that great tbh

chemcoop: B. Cool for VoltTurn Intimidate teams like Lando + Mane + Gyara but still pretty niche and doesn't perform a significantly different role from Koko other than Intim. Also doesn't have the breaking power of Thundy-T, so M-Mane is just outclassed as an electric.

DragonWhale: B. I haven't seen much that differentiates this mon from Koko or Thund-t especially when it takes a mega slot (besides intimidate, but a ton of physical mons threaten it anyway so)

greilmercenary9: B. I like M-Mane but while VoltTurn cores are fun it really struggles with raw damage output compared to other megas and even other electrics like Koko and Thund-T, and it doesn’t have a ton of raw bulk to help make up for that either. The utility of fire coverage helps but not nearly enough to prop this up to B+.

NOVED: Don't really think this is worth raising, on the mediocre side of megas

Psynergy: Manectric is decent but I don't think it's any bit better than B. It's like a Tapu Koko with Intimidate and Flamethrower, but it takes up your Mega slot. If you're not abusing those details, just use Koko.

Solerme: pre mega ability let it switch into electric attacks freely, and Intimidate + volt switch is no joke. Great speed, not the best SpA, but still electric STAB is a pretty good offensive type. B+

Theorymon: B, I like Mega Manectric for its volturn shenigans with Landorus-T, but I'm not really seeing what made it better recently outside of nailing Greninja. I guess to be fair thats a pretty excellent selling point these days though hmm...

Mega Alakazam: B- -> B

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cant say: i don't see this outside of eeveepass or psychic spam. idk if it's good enough to get bumped up

chemcoop: B-. Really niche mega. Strong and has a neat ability in Trace, but the presence of Mimi really neuters this thing and prevents it from winning games. Really only good on EeveePass or PsySpam teams which are pretty niche in the meta.

DragonWhale: B. Definitely not a B- mon lol. This thing deals SO much damage sometimes and has a fantastic speed tier. Mimi does hamper it a lot though.

greilmercenary9: B-. I’m just going to quote myself from the last time this came up since I don’t think anything significant has changed for M-Zam since then: “Only really notable on Psyspam or as a partner to help a setup mon get going, and while it can do those two niches quite well, it has little else going for it, especially in a meta where Mimikyu rules the roost and doesn’t even need a Z to OHKO uninvested Zam if it has Shadow Claw. Its niche in helping stuff like Glalie, Vivillion, or Eevee set up is arguably more interesting, especially since it’s easier to take someone by surprise with it and has some interesting tools like Thunder Wave and Trace, but it’s comparable utility is still dwarfed by something like Hippo or Serperior (or Whimsicott for Eeveepass) that really do the utility game better unless Zam really catches someone off guard.”

NOVED: It's not that big a deal but if manectric is B this probably should be too. Maybe they're both B- tho.

Psynergy: Honestly I think Alakazam is probably about on par with Manectric, maybe better but not that much better. Trace is very neat, it's very fast and strong, and it keeps Eevee teams alive. It does struggle with Mimikyu and Lele exists, but I think it's probably on par with most the rest of B tier.

Solerme: B-, I'm not 100% sure about Mzam. It sounds great on paper when you see the stats, and fun to play when using Trace properly, yet if you need a super fast frail sweeper there are a lot of better things that don't even need a mega stone.

Theorymon: Not sure, I'll admit I've never actually used Megazam this gen (Let's Go doesn't count LOL), but does this really see much use outside of Psychic spam teams? Don't really feel comfortable commenting on this guy, haven't experienced him in a while.

Snorlax: B+ -> A-

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cant say: definitely agree

chemcoop: A-. Agree with this. One of the few mons that can reliably take hits from Gren thanks to its big HP and SpDef stats. Curse is hard to stop once it gets rolling and Yawn/WW sets can chip things into range of a more offensive mon in the back. Belly Drum also an unexpected but low-key threat :^)

DragonWhale: A-. This thing was overlooked for the entire first half of the generation. Pinch berries makes this thing so hard to kill and it has fantastic setup moves.

greilmercenary9: A-. Probably the easiest move of this voting round IMO. Snorlax has incredible bulk, and this is only enhanced by Gluttony and FIWAM berries and having a typing with only one weakness. Without a strong Fighting type or Toxic to take this thing down, it can quickly become an unstoppable threat if allowed to set up with Curse. Snorlax can also go the utility route very effectively with Yawn + Whirlwind sets, and while these aren’t nearly as threatening as Curse or more offensive sets, they work very well with specific cores like Skarm + M-Gar.

NOVED: Yeah Snorlax is just GOOD

Psynergy: Snorlax continues to rise up in usage and the meta being slightly more unkind to Fighting-types helps. That doesn't mean Fighting-types aren't good though, and Toxic isn't exactly an uncommon tech, but if you lack these things then Snorlax does become a pain to deal with. This is definitely worthy of A- at this point.

Solerme: Absolutely, might even raise to A for me. This thing can win games alone if you don't have a check for it. It's not even 100% predictable, having more than 1 set with the Curse Recycle, the Yawn Whirlwind and the ZBelly Drum set.

Theorymon: Hell yeah! Snorlax is an excellent mon, it's both a good phazer and a decent set up tank too! Gluttony berry stuff is just so damn good, I think that alone puts it above pretty much anything B-ranked atm!

Suicune: A- -> B+

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cant say: yeah i think i gotta agree. can't remember the last time I ran this myself with fini / pex existing.

chemcoop: B+. Outclassed as a bulky CM water by Fini because of Misty Terrain's utility and a lack of resist to M-Blaze HJK. Cune has the niche of being able to Pressure Stall which is why I would rate it as a solid B+ mon, but it just doesn't do enough to justify using it over Fini unless you need a bulky water and your team is too M-Gengar weak to add Fini.

DragonWhale: B+. Water competition is high, especially when Fini does a similar thing with better typing and Misty terrain.

greilmercenary9: B+. Calm Mind variants are still dangerous in the right circumstances, but it takes very specific sets or needing the lack of a Poison weakness for it to really be an improvement on Fini in the current meta, as the lack of Fairy typing hurts more often than it helps. It still has its own unique tools at its disposal--Pressure and Mirror Coat being the most obvious--and can be very dangerous, but it’s slowly lost ground in the meta over the course of this gen.

NOVED: Yeah I don't like suicune that much, not a big consideration for me when I need a water

Psynergy: I like Suicune a lot and I think the other guys are underselling its strengths, but it definitely isn't on par with Toxapex. Mirror Coat and Pressure are very underrated tools and not being Gengar-weak isn't insignificant. That being said I do agree Suicune should drop, it doesn't get enough usage to justify A- anymore.

Solerme: B+, Discount Tapu Fini, but gets Roar and has pressure, and where Fini can't, Cune can use Rest sets. Sub Cm cune is a great baton pass recipient, and it can overall act like a pretty good bulky water. Yet the bulky water competition is too high. Solid B+, not A material in this meta.

Theorymon: It seems like I like Suicune more than a lot of other people here, since I find some of its tools like Roar, Pressure, and Mirror Coat to be a big deal over Tapu Fini for some teams, in addition to not being weak to Poison. Not gonna lie though, Toxapex and Tapu Fini are mons I think of before Suicune, so I think B+ fits as the "more niche but still very good bulky water" thing Suicune has going for it.

Xurkitree: B- -> B

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cant say: yeah I like this. i think it's gotten better since people started using the bulkier wallbreaker sets rather than trying to sweep. still really fun on gravity teams tho lol

chemcoop: B. Agree with this one. Z-Hypno is a meh set, but a bulkier Tail Glow build with z-Bolt can just hammer through balance comps.

DragonWhale: B-. Same issue as Manectric.

greilmercenary9: B. Just runs through bulky balance and some stall with Tail Glow + Sub sets when allowed a free turn, and while Z-Hypno is incredibly risky the speed boost in combination with the raw power this thing packs can also be effective against certain teams.

NOVED: No, z hypno is a dumb set, it's slower than every scarfer. And it's not that hard to prevent sleep for a lot of teams

Psynergy: Hm I'm honestly not too fussed about where this ends up, but looking at both B and B- I think it's actually more in line with the stuff in B. I am glad people are using that dumb Z-Hypnosis set less, but I still never see it so I don't mind this staying in B-. I'll still say that B is a fair place for it though so I'll lean towards that.

Solerme: Hard to set up with it, but thanks to Tail Glow you can invest a lot in bulk and fire back, specially with a Z move, blowing up almost everything. It even has some gimmicky sets such as the Z Electric Terrain / Rain Dance, and of course the Z Hypnosis one that is an evergreen.

Theorymon: I'm fine with Xurkitree getting an upgrade mostly because of bulky Tail Glow sets that can run through slower, more defensive teams.

Changes:
Naganadel moves from A+ to A
Greninja moves from A+ to S
Snorlax moves from B+ to A-
Suicune moves from A- to B+
Xurkitree moves from B- to B

 

[1_TrickPhony]

Great slate. Think I agree with most of it, although I would like to mention that I think B+ is a little over-saturated (only 10 in A- and 18 in B+). Obviously there is no set number for each tier, but in many cases I feel like there is a tier within a tier for B+, 18 mons cannot be all of the same rank in any tier list imo.

Mons Id consider closer to A- than B+, with a short description

Lopunny: Speed tier to bop the plethora of fast mons in the higher tier, can freely HJK without having to worry about a mimi/aegi switchin that plagues other HJK users. Surprisingly good support moves and plenty of room for surprises. Incredibly priority move in scrappy fake out to beat disguise as well. Has always been underrated, even if its not the strongest hitter.

Amoonguss: I know this was in last slate but again seems way more useful that most of the B+ mons. Checks 2 of the best mons in BSS in greninja and mimi, situationally checks lando as well, can pivot out with regen if things get hairy, and incredible support moves in spore/clear smog. Def resonated with solerme’s analysis of the nomination, its better than B+ mons, even if it may be more situational than other A-. I cant see a world where it is a rank lower than mega venu, considering they occupy similar niches, but has better ability, support, and no mega stone.

Pheromosa: this mon has the ultra unique niche of not being able to be revenged by scarf mons. Mimikyu is a huge issue but id argue its only true issue of the highest usage mons. Well timed u-turns prevent it from being abused by mimi and aegi as some mentioned, and it straight up beats lando/mence/gren. Obviously priority is a huge issue, but lele is still a thing and is a great top tier partner. Id say it averages a kill in most games and snowballs out of control in some sealing a win. The game is getting faster, and little is faster than phero, even at a neutral nature.

 

[NOVED]

I think the oversaturation in B+ is a fair concern but from my eyes it feels like it's because we're probably being too generous with a lot of mons in B+ through B-. I think the rankings would start to look more accurate if we started shifting some things in B+ through B- downward rather than moving some B+ mons to A-.

We also shouldn't totally write off that 18 or so mons can't be around the same power level. I'm not sure that's something as simple as a yes or no & is worthy of a discussion in itself.

 

[1_TrickPhony]

We also shouldn't totally write off that 18 or so mons can't be around the same power level. I'm not sure that's something as simple as a yes or no & is worthy of a discussion in itself.

Also worthy of a thought. In that case I think the three mons above should become more or less the standard of B+, and things like Azu, P-Z, Kommo-O (all the cheese situational sweepers) should be bumped down. I think I currently favor moving up a couple of mons than down, but thats certainly a good consideration.

Back to the idea of having 18 mons in B+, I just can't see any way that such a large amount of mons in a category that high should all be considered the same level. Sure, for something like a lower tier, its not worth it to explore the minutia of differences, but in B+, there is almost certainly a lack of parity and it should be defined for the sake of determining true viability. For perspective, OU viability has its largest tier at 13 (also B+ lol), and probably has more mons available with legends/mythics available (but few others banned). Just 2c ofc...

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

I am not sure I completely agree with the idea that the B+ tier is oversaturated given how the tier list is structured.

A lot of the reason that the B tier in general (B- also has 18 occupants) is more populated than the A tier is because more pokemon fit the definition of a B tier pokemon than of an A tier one. The three pokemon stated I believe don't fall under what is defined as an A tier pokemon at all and are well placed at the top of the B tier. I can definitely see the argument for at least bumping down Azumarill and Porygon-Z mainly due to how situational they are. Kommo-o I still believe is underrated in the current metagame, especially in how predictable it makes opponents moves, but that is just my personal opinion.

I should lastly mention that OU is a different case to BSS. From my experience playing OU, it is a very different environment and I believe is more centralised than BSS at least on showdown. Furthermore, they have split their C tier into C+/C/C- where they have 39 pokemon as opposed to our 17. They also lack definitions for their tiers and it's just a general hierarchical list, which is why OU is more able to evenly distribute pokemon in their viability rankings. We could change the B tier in my mind if we changed what it meant to be a B tier pokemon.

From what I've seen, the usage roughly does reflect where pokemon are in viability, so I don't think we are too off the mark.

 

[Psynergy]

As previously mentioned, we've discussed the VR a bit further to update a few dated rankings that weren't voted on in the last update. We looked mostly at Pokemon in the A-/B+ region since while the sub-ranks don't necessarily need to be even, the large disparity in those two lists definitely warrants some attention. We didn't give a formal vote but in the end, Excadrill, Mamoswine, Nihilego, and Primarina were dropped. Future nominations will be looked at during the next formal vote, whenever that may be, but feel free to make any comments or nominations for the time being!

Excadrill moved from A to A- largely due to how dated its previous spot was, and this is ultimately what led to this discussion. Excadrill still has a perfectly valid niche, serving as the only Mold Breaker Pokemon that can reliably OHKO all Mimikyu variants through Disguise (bar Sash), and it makes for a good Scarf user and even deceptively bulky AV user. However, its role as a Sand Rush sweeper has fallen out of favor for quite awhile now, which can largely be attributed to the presence of threats like Greninja, Landorus-T and Salamence. Sand Rush Excadrill is also still perfectly viable, but generally speaking this niche has a less favorable place in this meta, which ultimately hurts Excadrill's viability. Compared to the rest of the A tier Pokemon, Excadrill is notably a step behind them in the current meta, and dropping it to A- is arguably long overdue.

Mamoswine moved from A to A- for similar reasons as Excadrill, though Mamoswine suffers less from a dated niche. Mamoswine faces quite a bit of competition from Landorus-T and Hippowdon as a premier SR setter, and its awkward Speed tier makes things difficult sometimes. However, it still boasts an incredible offensive typing and ability that gives it some unique defense utility despite its awkward bulk. Mamoswine can easily be an opponent's bane all on its own, but unless you specifically need the offensive utility it provides with its fantastic STAB moves you will often find yourself using the aforementioned SR setters instead. This is still an incredible and unique niche worthy of A- at least, but if you don't need those tools then chances are you aren't going to use Mamoswine.

Nihilego moving from A- to B+ has been nominated before and probably justified a drop then too, but it's definitely time to drop it now. Nihilego also boasts a very unique niche due to a unique typing and stat spread, but Rock/Poison just has some really problematic downsides that keep it down. Being forced to run Hidden Power to not be hard-walled by all Steel-types is never a good thing, and its paper thin Defense is very easy to abuse. However, it is still a very unique SR user and Scarf mon, being one of few Pokemon that can reliably check both of Charizard's Megas as well as being a good Fairy killer. Unless it falls off the meta completely though, don't expect this to fall below B+.

Primarina moves from B+ to B as a result of its gradual fall in usage since USUM. Primarina continues to become a much rarer sight, not even seeing much use in tournaments lately. The last time Primarina dropped we cited its niche as a Trick Room attacker becoming less valuable due to Mawile being a far more effective and popular option as well as its worse physical bulk compared to Tapu Fini making it a less popular defensive pick. NOVED also noted that its niche as a Z-Move nuke is also less appealing than it used to be thanks to Greninja, who tends to be more effective as Z-Move nuke due to its fantastic Speed and unpredictability. Primarina still does the same things it always has, but its place in the current meta feels more reflective of a B tier Pokemon.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

I agree with pretty much every other drop, but I'm still not sure on Mamoswine. I feel like you cant have Garchomp, Volcarona, Kartana and Gliscor in A and not have Mamoswine in A. I think these pokemon are pretty much as viable as each other.

 

[ArcticBreeze]

Lets get to the point. Hax Duck A+ to S
so what are the most used pokemon in the usage stats
#1 Mimikyu well this is kind of both ways btu this thing can take it on and if its trick room generally beat it
#2 Lando-T P2 is great vs lando T with ya know ice beam and good defences.
#3 Greninja Torrent is a threat to physdef but in general p2 can take this thing on decently and atleast check it.
#4 CHarizard Well zard isnt really #4 but vs y depending on the p2 set it can deal with it. Same with Zard X.
#5 Salamence Porygon 2 is great to deal with mega salamence. This pokemon is very valuable on salamence weak teams.
#6 Aeg Now aeg is iffy. Sub toxic p2 fears. Rare max speed swords dance is bad. Besides that p2 can ebat It
#7 Tapu Fini. Ok P2 can pressure it if it has electric moves but in general this is great vs p2.
#8 Hippo Magic p2 tech is fire but in general ice beam pressures t although it does not like yawn + rocks.
#9 Tapu Koko P2 can deal with very little sets but in a pinch can take a few hits.
#10 Tapu Lele ok ye no unless ur tr mixed def /spd or thunder wave spd switch. And if they sub on u thats almost liek game.
So in general P2 beats most of the top threats or can beat the majority of threats. Another pokemon like meta metagross which is seen as a huge threat always can onyl beat p2 with hammer arm or flinches and btw to max def
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 84-100 (43.9 - 52.3%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO

Id also like to say P2 evs are so flexable.On one of my teams I wa sablw to ev the P2 to take +2 naga draco and still deal with mmence. The pokemon still dealt with common threats. Porygon 2 also has semi perfect coverage. This pokemon is also flexable on the teams its on. It could be on rare stall Tr BO Balance A rare offence. This pokemon can really support its team with TR or thunder wave or maybe even discharge. Ive found myself putting TR on P2 not becaus eI had even a semi tr team but becaus eit could support a pokemon like aegwithout losign much. Overall this pokemon is so flexable and bulky. This also retains an offensive presence.

Here I would calcs but I believe most people know how strong and bulky this pokemon and im tired so thats it :]

 

[1_TrickPhony]

So, instead of calling for Haxduck or another mon to go to S, which I personally might seem like a bit of a jump at this point (sorry Mon), I'd like to suggest that we should consider the creation of an S- ranking, to reflect a few mons that may have differentiated themselves from the glut of fantastic mons that lie in A+.

Theres one mon I've been thinking a lot about recently that probably fits this bill, which has seen a ton of increasing usage and success recently.

That mon is Aegislash

This guy is kinda nuts right now. And its not hard to see why its #6 in usage. This behemoth, boasting 3 immunities (including to being poisoned), is such a boon for an incredible defensive mon. I'd argue it might even be the best defensive mon in the game, but unlike its other defensive brethern (p2, cele, ferro), it has an ability which allows it turn to an offensive powerhouse in an instant.

Very few mons can consider themselves pure counters to Aegislash: Char-Y and Heatran, and even so, there are definitely sets that can make life hell for these two and other checks and counters. Simply put, its incredibly hard to enter a game and have a perfect idea of what set Aegi is going to be, and while you are playing rock paper scissors with some top tier mons, you straight shut down others (kartana, pheromosa, ferro, p2, Lucario, Hera). It demands a level of respect that few other mons bring to the table.

The set most deserving of S- right now (maybe even S if S- isn't created) are its toxic variants, which have been seeing explosive growth in usage, and for good reason. Being able to cripple many switch ins, along with any defensive mons that stay in, while being immune to the status itself is incredibly powerful against all forms of teams in this meta. Combine this with having the ability to deter a ton of physical attackers and a majority of choice locked mons with King's Shield, and you have perhaps the best defensive staller in the game.

However, thinking that Aegislash is a 1D mon due to its best set being defensive is to your own peril. Aegislash can run things like Ghostium-Z, Weakness Policy, or Fight-Z to decimate mons that may try to take advantage of its passiveness. And you most likely won't know until you are hit hard whether it is going physical, special, or a combination of attacking types.

Best part about Aegislash is that there is nothing stopping you from running a combination of offense and defense to whatever you desire. Want to go full offense? Use SD, Shadow Claw, Sacred Sword, Shadow Sneak. Want to go full defensive? Sub, Tox, Shadow Ball, King's Shield is for you. Want to have a combination of things? I actually have a set that is fight-Z, toxic, shadow sneak, kings shield on one of my teams, which is super good for catching opponents off guard. If that set is a little too whack for you, toxic, ghost-Z is becoming pretty standard now.

My final point will be to highlight its versatility with all of its usable moves and items.
Moves: Shadow Ball, Kings Shield, Toxic, Shadow Sneak, Sacred Sword, HP Ice, Sub, Shadow Claw, SD, Iron Head, Flash Cannon, Head Smash.
Items: Ghost-Z, Leftovers, Weakness Policy, Fight Z, Life Orb, Steel-Z.

For a "defensive" mon, thats pretty darn good. Like Greninja before it, lets give Aegi the respect it deserves and bump it up to S-/S

 

[PPB]

#4 CHarizard Well zard isnt really #4 but vs y depending on the p2 set it can deal with it.

This really does depend on set though. You seriously don't want to rely on P2 to check Yzard when it's packing Overheat.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

This really does depend on set though. You seriously don't want to rely on P2 to check Yzard when it's packing Overheat.

A full health Spdef P2 can technically recover stall off zard-y's overheat as it doesn't 2hko. The initial overheat will be doing up to about 66% though, not something P2 appreciates for sure.

 

[PPB]

A full health Spdef P2 can technically recover stall off zard-y's overheat as it doesn't 2hko. The initial overheat will be doing up to about 66% though, not something P2 appreciates for sure.

The problem is when you switch into Zard. If Zard is Timid P2 can still (usually, unless you get really bad rolls) stall Zard Y after switching into Flamethrower, but if it's Modest max SpA it gets really dicey. It puts P2 in a precarious situation where it needs to avoid damage, come in on Zard at over 60ish% health (in other words: not on Flamethrower), and hit Recover every single turn sun is up (to do otherwise would be a misplay). Stealth rocks don't help either (these really help out Timid Zard, making Flamethrower+Overheat dangerous coming even from it). But yeah if you manage to get in P2 at full you can pull it off.

However I do not know how common Max SpA Modest Zard is. Do note, though that if you want to deal with Zard Y, you do need to specialize your P2 for it by running max spDef and +spDef nature.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

The problem is when you switch into Zard. If Zard is Timid P2 can still (usually, unless you get really bad rolls) stall Zard Y after switching into Flamethrower, but if it's Modest max SpA it gets really dicey. It puts P2 in a precarious situation where it needs to avoid damage, come in on Zard at over 60ish% health (in other words: not on Flamethrower), and hit Recover every single turn sun is up (to do otherwise would be a misplay). Stealth rocks don't help either (these really help out Timid Zard, making Flamethrower+Overheat dangerous coming even from it). But yeah if you manage to get in P2 at full you can pull it off.

However I do not know how common Max SpA Modest Zard is. Do note, though that if you want to deal with Zard Y, you do need to specialize your P2 for it by running max spDef and +spDef nature.

Generally a team with a defensive P2 would have a corresponding Zard Y check such as Spdef Heatran. So I'm mostly talking about teams where P2 is used as a Zard Y check, in which case you would be max spdef. P2 doesn't really wants to switch into max spa modest Zard Y in the sun, nothing does though really other than heatran, chandelure, mega salamence (as long as no hp ice) and AV tyranitar. You can take a hit off most zards, recover stall or put up a twave or discharge if you absolutely have to. Max Spa Modest Zard is somewhat uncommon a lot of people prefer bulkier spreads for Modest.

 

[ArcticBreeze]

Reuniclus to B-/C

Lets start this off by saying this mon is so fire. When properly supported this thing can beat whole teams. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-874134764 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-874113012 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-874111686 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-873793572 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-873776036 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-874142407 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-874124247

There are a few replays of Reuniclus going in. This thing gets 3 good abilitys can use so many items.Dark types what is considered Reuniclus' biggest problem can be beaten with tspikes + a cm+ID set, Z-Focusblast,LO Focusblast. This thing can make its way on semistall balance tr. This thing can s et up on taunt fodder mimikyu once u confirm it does not ahev a ghost move. SLower set up sweepers like snorlax and ferrothorn get set up on. Many teams also can not beat this thing unless they get lucky. The main haze user (toxapex) is pressured by psychic. Many taunt users are frail and do nto like coming in/ can not do damage to you. This thing is also naturally somewhat bulky so setting up is doable.

Another replay ( http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-874170720 )