Bu-Bu-Bu-Bulky Offense Round 2

Red~Rum

Here's my team I made a while ago. But now that Latias is uber I need some help. So please rate!

Red~Rum said:
Changes are in bold!

Let's look at my team.
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Dragonite @ Life Orb
Quiet Nature
Attack 252/Special Attack 252/HP 4
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Extreme Speed
Earthquake

Inner Focus prevents Dragonite from being flinched allowing him to cripple flinch leads. The move pool and EV spread allows him to take out common leads as well. For the bulkier ones, such as Hippowdon and Swampert, Draco Meteor will deal a crippling blow and 2HKO them should they stay in for a subsequent one. Dragonite can also be used late in the game to be a late game mix sweeper.


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Metagross@Leftovers
Adamant Nature
HP 112/Attack 252/Defense 12/Speed 132
Agility
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Thunderpunch

Metagross and Dragonite work great together they cover each other weakness' they're both bulky and hit hard as well. Metagross can be used late-game as well well as early in the game. Agility makes Metagross one of the fastest things out there and then he can sweep through a team. Meteor Mash for STAB and possibly increase attack, Earthquake covers the nasty fire pokemon and thunder punch helps with water pokemon.


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Gyarados@Leftovers
Adamant Nature
HP 156/Attack 72/Defense 96/Speed 184
Dragon Dance
Taunt
Waterfall
Stone Edge

Gyarados' typing and Dragon Dance works wonders together. He also is another pokemon to absorb ground attacks. He takes fire attacks from Metagross and Scizor (will see in a second) as well. He takes steal hits too which helps counter Bullet Punch Scizors. Stone Edge for critical hits and Waterfall for stab and flinch.

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Scizor@Life Orb
Adamant Nature
Technician
HP 32/Attack 252/Speed 224
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Bug Bite
Brick Break

Scizor's ability to take a hit and set up is amazing. The only issue with the typing is 4x fire which Gyarados handles perfectly. Swords Dance + Life Orb allows him to deal some pretty deadly hits. Technician gives boosts to his attacks and Bullet Punch is STAB'd and priority and Bug Bite is STAB'd. Brick Break helps with steel type pokemons.


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Latias@Leftovers
Timid Nature
HP 112/Special Attack 204/Speed 192
Calm Mind
Recover
Surf
Dragon Pulse

Ok this set is working much better than the old Blissey set I use to run. The spread that I have is pretty decent. Latias has sweeping abilities after 2 Calm Minds, Latias is also helping me with my fire weakness and I see that she causes a lot of switches.


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Swampert@Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
HP 252/Attack 4/Defense 252
Stealth Rock
Roar
Earthquake
Ice Beam

This guy is helping out as well. He supplies the well needed Stealth Rock support my team needs. Also, it's another fire resistance and he is also immune to those dreadful electric moves Gyarados fears. Due to the lack of a recovery move other than Rest, Leftovers are crucial. Earthquake is for taking out special walls, Ice Beam is for physical walls.
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Hi.

I would suggest a small set change on Dragonite. I would try superpower over EQ, and 24 speed Evs at the expense of Attack. This will let you OHKO Heatran and Tyranitar leads, as well as Blissey later in the game. The speed will allow you to outrun almost all Metagross leads, though a little more speed can be added for extra insurance.

Metagross should run Zen Headbutt over Thunderpunch, as this offers good neutral coverage againt Rotom, Swampert, Zapdos and Gyarados among others. I would also suggest that you run 196 speed Evs to outrun Scarf Rotom-A after an Agility, since Scarf Rotom is a very common Agiligross switch-in which could also give your team some serious trouble.

Obviously we need to find a replacement for Latias. I was never quite sure how well that Latias fitted into your team in the first place, so I think we shouldn't necessarily be looking for a like-for-like replacement. Your team is is need of a decent counter to opposing Gyarados. Though you wouldn't much appreciate the electric weakness, a defensive Rapid Spinner Starmie could fit in quite well, helping to check Infernape and Bulky Gyarados, whilst supporting Dragonite and Gyarados in particular with rapid spin.

I think you should chuck Swampert's 4 attack Evs into speed, since this could be very important in a Roar war against another Swampert. 8 speed could even be considered, taking the evs out of defence.

Good luck.
 
All but the Starmie suggestion I like due to the electric weakness. I had Latias in mainly for its defensive ability and it was able to fit in good with most of my team.
 
Hi, got your PM.

Bulky offense is cool, but one of the most important parts of it is supporting each member properly. As you noted, Latias is banned, so something has to be done there as well. Dragonite seems to be the star of the show here, starting things off by putting the hurt into lots of things. I like that, so I'll work around keeping him there. I have a few suggestions elsewhere, though, that I feel will help the main goal of the team, so hear them out!

First, your team lacks a really effective switch-in to Rotom-A, specifically Rotom-H/C, which can run through most of your team and burn the rest. You also really don't support SDScizor all that well with your team by having nothing that can capitalize on the things that force it out. Sub+LO Heatran will give you a lot of trouble as well, since it tends to carry either HPGrass or HPElectric specifically for Swampert/Gyara respectively.

I suggest a Choice Band Scizor over your current SD Scizor for a few reasons:

  • Can pursuit-KO Scarfed Rotom-A with ease
  • Powerful U-turns that can give free switch-ins to other things and soften counters a bit
  • Can handle your serious DDMence weakness if Swampert is weakened by using CB Bullet Punch
  • Gives you some immediate power, so you don't have to setup with 4/6 of your Pokemon to do well
Run the following set:

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Nature: Adamant
~ Bullet Punch
~ U-turn
~ Superpower
~ Pursuit

Also, in place of Latias, I want to suggest Standard Rotom-C for a few reasons:

  • Can beat Swampert with ease, who will give many of your sweepers a tough time
  • Can burn Tyranitar, who with a Scarf will generally frustrate your team (Can burn other things too, which is nice, and isn't setup bait because of it)
  • Swampert and Scizor have excellent synergy with Rotom-C, being able to take out many of the things that try to switch into it
  • Rotom-A is no slouch in attacking with its Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball
  • Rotom-C discourages things setting up on it because of its Will-O-Wisp
  • Retains the ground immunity that Latias provided, as well as giving you another Scizor switch-in
  • Gives you another solid electric resistance for your team
Use the following set if you want to use Rotom-C:

Rotom-C @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Nature: Bold
~ Thunderbolt
~ Shadow Ball
~ Will-O-Wisp
~ Leaf Storm

If you choose to run Rotom-C, it will probably be worth it to use Ice Punch on Metagross over Thunderpunch, since Rotom-C will be an excellent switch-in to any Gyarados that come against your Metagross.

Anyway, give these suggestions a try, I think they'll do your team well. Good luck!
 
You never specified in the first post that this was a wifi team; you should do that. There's not much else that checks the same things that Rotom-C does... You could really use a few things from that slot:

  • Reasonable secondary Scizor switch-in
  • Ground-immunity
  • Beat some annoying bulky waters
  • Secondary electric resistance
  • It'd be nice if it checked Heatran too
The only other Pokemon that can remotely handle those things without being Latias, who is banned, or Rotom-A is a Specially Defensive Zapdos with Hidden Power Grass. He's, unfortunately, weak to Stealth Rock, but he's a great Pokemon that will check a lot of threats while being generally hard to setup on. Zapdos also pairs excellently with Scizor and Metagross, so this should work out fairly well. And while he's neutral to Electric-type attacks, a specially defensive set keeps him from being 2HKOed by most. Try the following set:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe
Nature: Calm
~ Thunderbolt
~ Heat Wave
~ Hidden Power Grass
~ Roost

If you use this, you should definitely use the Choice Band Scizor I suggested in my last post, since things like Salamence might be gutsy and try to setup on you. Good luck!
 
Rising_Dusk said:
You never specified in the first post that this was a wifi team; you should do that. There's not much else that checks the same things that Rotom-C does... You could really use a few things from that slot:

  • Reasonable secondary Scizor switch-in
  • Ground-immunity
  • Beat some annoying bulky waters
  • Secondary electric resistance
  • It'd be nice if it checked Heatran too
The only other Pokemon that can remotely handle those things without being Latias, who is banned, or Rotom-A is a Specially Defensive Zapdos with Hidden Power Grass. He's, unfortunately, weak to Stealth Rock, but he's a great Pokemon that will check a lot of threats while being generally hard to setup on. Zapdos also pairs excellently with Scizor and Metagross, so this should work out fairly well. And while he's neutral to Electric-type attacks, a specially defensive set keeps him from being 2HKOed by most. Try the following set:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe
Nature: Calm
~ Thunderbolt
~ Heat Wave
~ Hidden Power Grass
~ Roost

If you use this, you should definitely use the Choice Band Scizor I suggested in my last post, since things like Salamence might be gutsy and try to setup on you. Good luck!
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I got your VM, but I guess the problems been solved.

Yeah, to be honest, I agree because the only possible relation to Rotom-C is pretty much Zapdos, except it has more weaknesses related to Rotom-C, but Zapdos also contains Rotom-C's main type attacks; Eletric-, Grass-, and Fire-. So Zapdos still has coverage to help protect against opposing Gyarados and Zapdos also compliments swampert from the likes of Celebi, but your team seems to already cover that problem. There's not much to rate but to also go for CB Scizor that Rising_Dusk has already suggesting because it packs much bigger power and with this set, as you're U-turning, your teammates may switch into things that may be counter such as Heatran where as gyarados just comes in and scare it away with Dragon Dance only or Waterfall. Your team has some nice type synergy as well, anyways, good luck.
 
Zapdos does cover some things I do need but it also brings upon a problem that I can't afford another weakness to rock attacks and stealth rocks.
 
I was thinking about suggesting you another, but I wanted to see what your reply would be. So here goes:

Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

It takes Heatran, It revenge kills any Salamence that isn't running 252 Speed EVs with +1 Dragon Dance (speed tie,) it's immune to Ground- attacks, it's immune to Electric- attacks, and it's not weak to Stealth Rock.

Another reason I suggested Scarf Flygon is with CB Scizor and its U-turn, both of these choiced U-turners are able to scout a lot and since some of your pokemons can come in and take some hits and counter some of those threats. Flygon is a good choice because it's also a fast U-turn user and has the speed to revenge kill major threats naming Salamence and Scarf Heatran.

I left Stone edge in there to kill weakened Gyarados that already have +1 DD as another way to revenge kill. Outrage is for it's main STAB, Earthquake as a secondary STAB and to hit those who resist Dragon- attacks. U-turn for the obvious scout which works so great along side CB Scizor.

Try this suggestion, as it should work well in pair with Scizor and Gyarados, and help take down the mentioned threats above, and I think makes a good replacement with Latias, although Latias is just far stronger and faster. Good Luck.
 
I like the suggestion of Flygon except for the fact it sort of brings away the whole theme of bulky sweeping and still leaves me weak to special sweepers. I will be testing Flygon out.
 
Just a quick rate here. I notice with Latias gone you have nothing at all that can switch into Rotom-A, and much of your team is walled by it. For this reason you should definitely replace Latias with Heatran.

Heatran @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive / EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Fire Blast / Earth Power / Hidden Power Grass / Explosion

This Heatran is a great counter to Rotom-A as it can switch in on nearly every move and hit extremely hard with Fire Blast. If it gets the Flash Fire boost from Will-O-Wisp, its a guaranteed KO. Heatran also is a great lure to Swampert, Suicune, etc. and can 2HKO them with Hidden Power Grass. This is great because then Metagross and Gyarados will have a much easier time sweeping when these Pokemon are eliminated. Good luck.
 
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