ORAS OU Bugs in Sand, oh my, oh my...


(Art by Brad McGinty)
G'day ladies and gentlemen!

This is my newest RMT, and it is, in theory, the continuing of my old Sand team RMT (which got locked, because I'm a lazy f***er and didn't read the rules about only being allowed to post 1 RMT per 2 weeks :P). Since there has been a lot of time, battles, conversations and new knowledge since that thread, I decided NOT to reopen it, but instead start from scratch, and make the whole thing a bit more appealing for readers.

First things first: I've said it before, but I can only repeat myself; thanks once again to both Albacore and ABR for dealing with my hours of theorycrafting, and helping me form this team.

I will start with explaining how I theorycrafted the Pokemon themselves, and afterwards go into detail about the movesets, spreads and item choices. Hope you enjoy it!

Teambuilding process:

1)

So since I knew I wanted to build a Sand team, the one single Pokemon that was an auto-include (even Tyranitar is, in theory, not a 100% must-have), was Excadrill, since it's the backbone and centerpoint of any post-TSS-Sand team.

2+3) ?!!?

My next two slots were propably the hardest choices in the team (apart from my mega), because there were so many factors to consider. First of all, I had to choose the direction I wanted my team to go: Do I want it to be Bulky Offense? Hyper Offense even? Or would I rather have a more defensively-oriented Balance team? That would massively influence the way I pick my next Pokemon, and if I want to close offensive or defensive gaps. Since apart from Sand, Stall teams are my personal favorite Archetype, I chose the Balanced route. This meant, that I looked at what the most common threats are in the current metagame, and especially which ones threaten my Excadrill and hence need to be checked, walled or weakened.

Looking at the usage stats for September (here) and the trends of the last few OLT cycles (there), it's pretty clear that the major problems to handle are Landorus-Therian, Clefable, Keldeo and Latios. Now looking at the available Pokemon, I had several pivots to choose from: Rocky Helmet Tangrowth and Rotom-Wash deal with Lando-T pretty well; Amoonguss, Starmie and Assault Vest Tangrowth tackle Keldeo. In the end I chose AMOONGUSS and ROTOM-WASH, for the following reasons: I am a big fan of taking out an enemy Pokemon by putting it to sleep, and to do that with Tangrowth would mean I couldn't go Assault Vest, forcing me to look for Starmie as a Keldeo check, and Starmie's defensive set seems just so meh these days... Also, even though Clefable is already mostly covered by my Excadrill, Amoonguss can help that too by weakening it first, and Clear Smog is just generally a nice to have move to stop certain setup sweepers.

That said, I haven't tested the other options, but I'm sure using Tangrowth and Starmie wouldn't be too bad either.

4)

Now with Keldeo and Lando-T checked, the next point on my list was Latios. The most prominent check to Latios, Tyranitar, is already predestined to be used in Sand teams, for obvious reasons of not only bringing actual Sand, but also the versatility of being either an emergency special Tank and supporter, or a hardhitting Choice user.

5)

Ahhh, good ol' S-Tier Clef. It mostly doesn't need an explanation to be used in ANY team, but for the sake of it: I wasn't 100% sure yet if I wanted to run a Choice Scarf, Choice Band or Support set on Tyranitar yet, so I was looking for optional Stealth Rockers, which Clefable does an exceptional job at, since it beats Mega-Sableye. Also it gave me a status sponge and the option of either running Speed Control in Thunder Wave, or Knock Off support. It also deals with most Garchomp sets (apart from a few offensive SD ones), which hurts the rest of my team pretty badly. AND on top of that, it is an emergency check for Lati-twins if my Tyranitar is weakened, or I mispredict something.

6)
?
!

(Sprites are totally animated to show the importance of the Pokemon... and because those were the only ones I found...)
Now, for my last spot, I still wanted/needed a mega-evolution, and looking at the rest of my team, it had to be one that could preferably wallbreak several fat Grass and Steel types. Both Char-Y and Heracross are really strong wallbreakers in OU, special and physical respectively. At first, I almost wanted to auto-include Charizard, because it simply powers through everything left, like Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Venusaur-M, etc...

But:

After running my team through the Break-My-Team-Simulator (clickyclicky) and double-checking with ABR, we noticed that I could actually get 6-0ed by Bisharp after a single boost, and could do nothing but watch in agony. Now while Heracross might not have the actual power to simply kill things left and right, I would rather get walled than swept. Additionally, Heracross still does fine against Venusaur, it can Sub on Ferrothorn, and Skarmory is basically dead after a Brave Bird on Heracross, so it's basically a trade, and if the enemy Skarmory was their Excadrill check, a sweep is inbound.

For those reasons, I chose to go for Mega-Heracross as my mega and wallbreaker, finally adding the biting bug to my Sandstorm!

---

Sets, items and spreads:

Now this is already longer than I originally planned it, so I will try to make this paragraph as short as possible:

1) Excadrill is a modified Sand Sweeper set. Sand Rush, maxed out Attack and Speed, last 4 EVs in either Def or SpD. Earthquake and Iron Head are the hardest hitting Stabs, Swords Dance to set up and make it even more deadly. Last slot is either Rock Slide for coverage (for example to finish a Skamory that Heracross traded with), or Rapid Spin as an emergency Hazard removal, even though nothing on this team is actually weak to Stealth Rocks. Jolly nature over Adamant to outspeed max speed Heatran outside of Sand. Item is an Air Baloon, because Life Orb wears it down way too much, and being able to boost on a ground-locked or switching Lando-T is insane value.

2+3) Rotom-W and Amoonguss are pretty much the standard defensive pivot sets. Lefties/Black Sludge respectively for recovery, Levitate and Regenerator as their abilities. Rotom runs Volt Switch to keep momentum and hit Skarm, Hydro Pump as a strong Stab, Will-o-Wisp to cripple physical Pokemon even more, and Pain Split as pseudo-heal. Amoonguss has Giga Drain and Clear Smog as Stabs, the latter also shutting down certain setup sweepers like CM Clef. Spore is also an auto-include. Last slot can be either HP:Fire to help wear down defensive steels like Ferrothorn, who like to switch in, or Stun Spore because of the synergy with Spore forcing enemies out.

4) I was thinking quite a while about my Tyranitar set and if I should go for a special defensively oriented spread and support set, or an offensive Choice Band one. In the end I decided on Choice Band, running the Standard max attack and speed, crunch, pursuit, stone edge and supower coverage. The reason for that is: Not only do I have a good rocker and support Pokemon in Clefable already, but also, unless I get completely outplayed by doubleswitching on me, I should usually be able to get the OHKO on threats like Latios or Char-Y because of the increased CB speed. For people trying out this team who are not (yet) comfortable in their abilities to switch or predict switches, the support set with investments in def and SpD, a Smooth Rock/Chople Berry as an item, and Ice Beam/Stealth Rocks instead of Crunch/Superpower can still work really good in this team.

5) Clefable is also just the standard support set. Leftovers for sustaining, Magic Guard to sponge status and not take damage from Hazards and Sand, Soft-Boiled, Heal Bell, Stealth Rock as moves. The last slot is once again optional, you can either go for Knock Off support to remove important items like Eviolite on Chansey, Leftovers on Heatran, etc., or for Thunder Wave to cripple common switchins to Clefable.

6) Yet another standard set, my Mega-Heracross is a simple bulky Wallbreaker. Pin Missile and Rock Blast to abuse Skill Link and break Sturdy/Sash, Close Combat as a massive burst stab. Last slot was Substitute for the reasons stated above.

Small extra note: As some people might notice, all of my Pokemon (which are able to) are female. That is because the standard online Gender for Pokemon is Male, and I want to be able to avoid the occassional Attract (looking at you, ScoliPass teams)

---

Importable:

Excadrill (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin / Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

Amoonguss (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Clear Smog
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Stun Spore

Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Superpower

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Thunder Wave / Knock Off

Heracross-Mega (F) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 240 HP / 136 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Substitute


---

Conclusion:

As always, I had a blast doing this. No matter how much it mashes my brain cells, I just love teambuilding :P I'm also very grateful for the help ABR and Albacore provided, I'm sure I would have missed a lot of points without them.

Anyways, I'd love to hear what all of you guys have to say, feel free to comment your opinion and suggested changes hear, or just leave some kind words ;)

So long,
Sart
 
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Oh, and something I forgot that might be important to note, is the Threatlist:

According to BRMT, the major threats are M-Scizor, M-Metagross, M-Venusaur, Terrakion and regular Scizor, but in reality I've had much more trouble dealing with good Weaviles, Venusaur gets worn down rather easy, Scizor with a Burn or Para doesn't do much vs Excadrill, same goes for Metagross. Just need to play around it by switching accordingly.

Link
 
What's up dude, this is a really efficient sand team you have here. I think Heracross pairs very nicely with sand since it can easily break down the things the sand struggles to break through. Your team handles most of the metagame quite nicely even having multiple answers to big threats in case 1 goes down or in the instance of a misplay so often times, your team allows room to come back from any mistakes.

The biggest threats I found to your team were something like mega scizor and zardy. Zardy actually outspeeds 4/6 members (5/6 if sand isnt up) and can very easily predict the ttar and focus blast it. SD Scizor can potentially set up on 4 members (exca, ttar, clef, amoong) of the team and just win. It's not even the case of your team being weak to a specific scizor variant, I found it quite weak to all variants.

Unfortunately, Zardy and Scizor are 2 different threats that have very different checks so the best solution to find some common ground is to use a mon that can pivot into them and threaten them out. The mon that came to mind was Specs Keldeo. Keldeo can 2hko all scizor variants with a specs and even threaten out zardy. The difficult part was deciding which member to replace and I settled on clefable since at most it was sitting there and eating hits without contributing much to the win conditions of your team (bar knocking stuff off or twaving for hera). Changing clefable means you lack a rocker so the simplest change to make is by changing scarf tar to chople tar. This maintains a 1 time zardy check and allocates the pressure of checking zam to ttar as well just like clef did.

Here are the sets:

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind


Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave

Hope I helped and thanks a lot for sharing!
 

Leo

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What's up dude, this is a really efficient sand team you have here. I think Heracross pairs very nicely with sand since it can easily break down the things the sand struggles to break through. Your team handles most of the metagame quite nicely even having multiple answers to big threats in case 1 goes down or in the instance of a misplay so often times, your team allows room to come back from any mistakes.

The biggest threats I found to your team were something like mega scizor and zardy. Zardy actually outspeeds 4/6 members (5/6 if sand isnt up) and can very easily predict the ttar and focus blast it. SD Scizor can potentially set up on 4 members (exca, ttar, clef, amoong) of the team and just win. It's not even the case of your team being weak to a specific scizor variant, I found it quite weak to all variants.

Unfortunately, Zardy and Scizor are 2 different threats that have very different checks so the best solution to find some common ground is to use a mon that can pivot into them and threaten them out. The mon that came to mind was Specs Keldeo. Keldeo can 2hko all scizor variants with a specs and even threaten out zardy. The difficult part was deciding which member to replace and I settled on clefable since at most it was sitting there and eating hits without contributing much to the win conditions of your team (bar knocking stuff off or twaving for hera). Changing clefable means you lack a rocker so the simplest change to make is by changing scarf tar to chople tar. This maintains a 1 time zardy check and allocates the pressure of checking zam to ttar as well just like clef did.

Here are the sets:

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind


Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Thunder Wave

Hope I helped and thanks a lot for sharing!
After looking at the team I realized how weak he was to both of these 2 and tbh I dont think Keldeo helps with these. It does check mscizor, but it fails to check Zard-Y. To begin with it can't switchin because it takes 50-60% from Fire Blast or gets ohko'd by Solar Beam on the prediction. Then it can't even OHKO with max roll Hydro Pump under the Sun which means Zard-Y can keep punching holes through the team. Although I like Keldeo as a mscizor answer I think the only mscizor set he struggles against is the offensive one which can be dealt with by Rotom-W+Excadrill, you just have to keep Rotom healthy to take the +2 Superpower. Now Zard-Y has few switchins and also gets rid of the sand which allows it to outspeed Excadrill, that's why the Chople Tyranitar you suggested is definitely needed. I think that's all for this team, definitely a solid build reminds me of ABR's M-Lop Sand Offense which is a lot of fun to use, but in the end most Sand/Rain teams end up looking pretty much the same since the archetype is built around the same pokemon imo (Sand is Exca+Tyranitar, Rain Politoed Kingdra M-Swampert)
 
Hey obii and Leooo_33, thanks a lot for the detailled replies!

First of all, I'm glad you like the team :) It was definitely fun to build and it's the first Sand team I've built where I'm actually comfortable with how it turned out. And yeah, I'm a big fan of ABR and his gameplay, and he helped me out quite a bit when I had questions during the building process, so the influence is definitely there.

Now on to the changes you proposed:

Scizors (of any kind) and Char-Y are indeed quite problematic to handle, although most of the times I was able to play around them by tricking my opponents and double-switching, but I'm sure that won't work anymore once I climb a bit higher, so it definitely needs adressing. The reason why I want Clef to stick is because of all the Stall teams that are being played on higher ranks, and I need a consistent answer to Sableye-M that can keep rocks up. Additionally, like Leooo_33 said, while Keldeo kills Char, it doesn't actually switch into it either, so I don't think Keldeo will help me TOO MUCH here.

What I DO like though, is the Chople Berry variant on Tyranitar, and I was considering it while building the team. My biggest problem with the set though, is the fact that it doesn't actually OHKO Latios, and might even lose to Surf variants (which most run atm if I'm not mistaken?), if he predicts the switch-in, because it's slower without Scarf. Would that be a big problem? Or is the chance of them predicting a Tyranitar switchin and beating it with Surf before I can kill them with double Stone Edge (or a Pursuit if they switch out) small enough not to care?

I guess what I COULD do, was run Crunch on the defensive TTar set, because I don't need the Rocks if I keep Clef on the team, so I at least have a chance on the OHKO (0 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Latios: 266-314 (88.9 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO). That seems like the most reasonable change to me, so please let me know what you think of it :)

Edit: This is the set I'm gonna try on Tyranitar for now:

Tyranitar (F) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
 
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Ok, so the new set on Tyranitar is definitely the better choice. The power drop is almost not noticeable and the ability to switch into many special attackers is really helpful, since the rest of my team is more physically oriented.

I'm not the best battler (obviously), but if people want, I could upload some replays too, where I show both good games and the strengths, as well as bad games and hence the flaws of the team (or my gameplay ^^)?
 
Additional edit that got brought up in the RMT room last night:

- Rocks back to TTar over Crunch (since 2x Pursuit still kills Lati Twins and overall they don't come in on much)?
- Therefore CM on Clef as an additional Win-Con?
- 212 Def EVs on Clef to better check M-Medicham?
- 44 Spe EVs on Rotom to outspeed Azu and Crawdaunt?

Would love to know people's thoughts on that
 

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