1v1 [BW] Donphan (Sitrus Berry + Ground Gem) [QC 2/2] [GP 1/1]

Lumii

warmth of the winter
is a Community Contributor
[SET]
name: Ground Gem
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Endeavor
move 4: Rock Slide / Head Smash / Counter
item: Ground Gem
ability: Sturdy
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

Set Description
=============
Ground Gem-boosted Earthquake, Donphan's strongest STAB move, OHKOes Metagross and Heatran. Ice Shard lets Donphan KO many Pokemon at low HP that could otherwise 2HKO it in return, such as Haxorus, Magnezone, and Porygon-Z. Endeavor + Sturdy lets Donphan survive would-be OHKOs and bring the foe to 1 HP, which lets Ice Shard pick them off. Donphan's Rock Slide is for Aerodactyl, Substitute Tornadus, and Thundurus, while Head Smash is worse against the three but better against bulky Choice Specs Zapdos. Counter allows Donphan to beat some physical attackers, such as Scrafty.

EVs
=============
Maximum Attack EVs and an Adamant nature let Donphan do as much damage as possible. The rest of the EVs are relatively insignificant, as Donphan can use Sturdy to avoid OHKOs and Ice Shard to bypass its low Speed.


Usage Tips
=============
If Donphan is able to 2HKO with some attack + Ice Shard, it should always use it. An example of this is against Sawk, which faints to Donphan's Earthquake + Ice Shard. Donphan should use Endeavor against threats that are expected to activate its Sturdy. Against Latios, Donphan can either use Endeavor or Ice Shard, which often 3HKOes. If Latios attacks and activates Sturdy, Endeavor + Ice Shard wins. If Latios uses either Calm Mind or Trick, repeatedly using Ice Shard wins instead. Donphan cannot, however, win against Latios that have Psyshock + Draco Meteor.

[SET]
name: Sitrus Berry + Endeavor
move 1: Endeavor
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Sturdy
nature: Brave
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Def
ivs: 0 SpD / 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Set Description
=============
Sturdy and a Sitrus Berry allow Donphan to more comfortably use Substitute on the first turn. Endeavor is used to get a foe in KO range of Ice Shard. Earthquake is Donphan's strongest STAB move and can OHKO Pokemon like Heatran.

EVs
=============
0 Speed IVs allow Donphan to use Substitute after Snorlax attacks. Donphan should also have 0 IVs in Special Defense to activate Sturdy more often. Since physical attacks rarely activate Sturdy anyway, 252 Defense EVs are used to help against physical attackers.

Usage Tips
=============
Unless Donphan can KO immediately with Earthquake + Ice Shard, it should always use Substitute on the first turn, which, due to its Sitrus Berry, will work even if Sturdy is activated. Donphan should continue to use Substitute until its HP does not allow it to use Substitute again. After this, Donphan can use Endeavor + Ice Shard to attempt to KO.


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lumii, 493772]]
- Quality checked by: [[Itchy, 518399], [neomon, 408904]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429]]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Itchy

Jealous of the way I bounce up off the ceiling
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Moderator
I know I said that you could reserve individual sets at the beginning, but I would rather you write about every set. Could you please also write about offensive Donphan (Band / Ground Gem) and put that as the first set? Offensive sets are generally better since this set can fall flat if the opponent plays around Sturdy, but still fine. Makes it easier and more efficient if we do them all at once is all. This set is fine after these edits btw

Set:
- Sitrus Berry + Endeavor instead of Sitrus Endeavor
- Put the moves in the order you mention them (Endeavor Ice Shard Sub EQ)

Set Description:
- What Ice Shard does is mentioned in the first sentence, so the last sentence can be removed
- The Sturdy + Sitrus + Sub point can be consolidated and explained in more detail in usage tips

EVs:
- "it is preferred" is used multiple times, probably can find another phrase for (or cut) some of those.

Usage Tips:
- Mention Metagross over Heatran for variety maybe
- Ice Shard as priority doesn't need a super long explanation
 

Itchy

Jealous of the way I bounce up off the ceiling
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Ground Gem QC! These comments are probably a bit dense, but hopefully not too hard to implement
Set Description:
- What Pokemon does Ground Gem help with? - Volcarona + Haxorus (not having to worry about sd) are two big ones
- EQ + Ice Shard bops non-Wisp / Sub Volcarona, so Head Smash isn't much of an improvement in this matchup, trades rolls on bulky sub with Rock Slide for non-Charti wisp with Head Smash.
- Head Smash is still better vs (Bulky) Specs Zapdos, but Rock Slide (+ Ice Shard) is better vs Sub Tornadus, Aerodactyl, and Thundurus, and they're about the same versus Specs Thundurus-T. Mention both, since they have marginally different use cases - sometimes accuracy / PP / no recoil is better, sometimes Head Smash's raw power is, but usually Rock Slide is better
- Maybe Counter as an option as well?
- Move the Rock-type moves + maybe Counter down to the last slot since you mention them after Endeavor

EVs:
- The Speed is just extra EVs, you don't have to mention the Speed creep (since that is usually discouraged in analyses)
- Max attack doesn't necessarily have to be explained, but if you do, say something about rolls for Sub Volcarona / Thundurus / Tornadus / offensive Genesect

Usage Tips:
- sometimes before Keldeo when priority is mentioned, Aqua Jet isn't super common - the real buzzkill here is Reflect
- add a couple more examples to this section - Latios should be in the Endeavor + Ice Shard explanation, others could use a mention or two to give some context to the tips

1/2 after implementation
 
As first comment, endeavor seems too niche+it's pretty short so I believe it should be an OO set and not a main set.

Set Description
=============
Earthquake is Donphan's strongest STAB move and can be used against foes it OHKOs, such as Metagross, Heatran, and Porygon-Z. Ice Shard pairs well with Sturdy and Endeavor to allow Donphan to bring opponents down to a single HP point and OHKO them with Ice Shard. Donphan's Rock Slide is for Aerodactyl, Substitute Tornadus, and Substitute + Toxic Thundurus, while Donphan's Head Smash OHKOes Bulky Specs Zapdos. Counter allows Donphan to beat some physical attackers, such as Scrafty. Holding a Ground Gem allows Donphan to more reliably OHKO certain Pokemon, like Volcarona and Haxorus, that would not be OHKOed without the Ground Gem boost.
Rephrase the ice shard stuff I think cause rn it seems like you only use it with endeavor. ice shard can be used to finish foes at low hp and goes well w/ endeavor etcetc. I mean rock slide beats thundurus doesn't really have to be toxic+sub.

EVs
=============
Donphan's HP investment makes sure that it survives Fighting Gem Conkeldurr's Hammer Arm and Mach Punch
252+ Atk Fighting Gem Iron Fist Conkeldurr Hammer Arm vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 291-343 (78 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 78-93 (20.9 - 24.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

huh? Am I missing something?

It, however, struggles against Pokemon with priority moves, such as Genesect and sometimes Keldeo
You wrote earlier you beat genesect w/ eq but then now u say it runs a prio move and beats you. Just say it may run prio sometimes not always.

If the Latios uses an offensive move, Donphan must use Endeavor before it uses Ice Shard.
So Ice shard > Endeavor > Shard wins even if they draco turn 1? . You can't predict if the opposing latios will attack or trick.
+ Why would you endeavor against "every" special attacker, didn't you say Volcarona loses to eq? I think you have to be more specific about cases

I'm gonna have to review it again when done
 

Lumii

warmth of the winter
is a Community Contributor
Itchy I've decided to 0/2 QC this one. The Sitrus Berry set has had no changes, but can you recheck the Ground Gem set due to the significant changes?

DEG this goes back to you as well, if you can recheck this, it would be very appreciated! I also DMed you my thoughts on keeping Sitrus as a set and not an other option on Discord: I think the two different items here put emphasis on different parts of Donphan's possible strategy.

For now I will be marking this 0/2. I also have made Ground Gem the first set. Please recheck these once you get the chance!
 

Itchy

Jealous of the way I bounce up off the ceiling
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
- The Ground Gem spread used here is not that great, max attack is best and the rest of the EVs can go wherever

Ground Gem Donphan gives more value to the KOs that Donphan can get from Earthquake + Ice Shard than the Endeavor + Ice Shard KOs that it can get. (filler) Donphan should first seek to use Earthquake if it can get an OHKO or 2HKO with a foe being unable to OHKO or 2HKO in return KO with Ice Shard after (could use examples as well so it's less abstract). If this is not the case, Donphan should use Endeavor against threats that are expected to activate Donphan's Sturdy (an example or two couldn't hurt). Against Latios, Donphan can either use Endeavor or Ice Shard, which has very good odds to 3HKO. If Latios uses an attacking move that makes Sturdy activate, Endeavor into Ice Shard wins. If Latios uses either Calm Mind or Trick, using Ice Shard thrice wins. However, Donphan cannot beat Dragon Gem Latios that run Psyshock and Draco Meteor.

back to 1/2 after
 
[SET]
name: Ground Gem
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Endeavor
move 4: Rock Slide / Head Smash / Counter
item: Ground Gem
ability: Sturdy
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Set Description
=============
Earthquake is Donphan's strongest STAB move and can be used against foes it OHKOs, such as Metagross and Heatran. Ice Shard lets Donphan OHKO many Pokemon at low HP that could otherwise OHKO it, such as Haxorus and Porygon-Z. that could otherwise 2HKO it in return (you qcd it yourself, rephrase this and then lmk so i can check again) this also includes sturdies fyi so mention those
Donphan's Rock Slide is for Aerodactyl, Substitute Tornadus, and Thundurus, while Head Smash gives better odds against Bulky Specs Zapdos. Counter allows Donphan to beat some physical attackers, such as Scrafty.

EVs
=============
Ground Gem Donphan should have maximum Attack EVs in order to do as much damage with its moves as possible. The rest of the EVs are relatively insignificant, as Donphan can oftentimes still use its Sturdy + Endeavor strategy to get OHKOes with Ice Shard.

Usage Tips
=============
Donphan should use Earthquake if it can get an OHKO or KO with Ice Shard afterwards. An example of this is against Sawk, which gets defeated by Donphan's Earthquake on the first turn and Ice Shard on the second. Donphan should use Endeavor against threats that are expected to activate Donphan's Sturdy. Against Latios, Donphan can either use Endeavor or Ice Shard, which has very good odds to 3HKO. If Latios uses an attacking move that makes Sturdy activate, Endeavor into Ice Shard wins. If Latios uses either Calm Mind or Trick, using Ice Shard thrice wins. However, Donphan cannot beat Dragon Gem Latios that run Psyshock and Draco Meteor.



[SET]
name: Sitrus Berry + Endeavor
move 1: Endeavor
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Sturdy
nature: Brave
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe
ivs: 0 SpD / 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Set Description
=============
Endeavor is used to get an opponent down to an amount of HP from which Ice Shard can OHKO. Sturdy and a Sitrus Berry allow Donphan to more comfortably use Substitute on the first turn. Earthquake is Donphan's strongest STAB move and can OHKO Pokemon like Heatran.

EVs
=============
Maximum investment in Attack is necessary in order to do as much damage as possible with Earthquake and Ice Shard. Investing 252 EVs in Defense is also preferred because it has favorable rolls to survive two Close Combat from 252+ Sawk. A Brave nature, 4 EVs, and 0 IVs in Speed are used in order to underspeed Snorlax by a single point. It is also preferred to have 0 IVs in Special Defense in order to activate Sturdy as much as possible when being hit by a special attack.

Usage Tips
=============
The overarching idea of any Donphan with Endeavor will be attempting to make Donphan take as much damage as possible before using Endeavor and finishing a battle with Ice Shard. Unless Donphan is against a Pokemon that it can reliably by using Earthquake, such as Metagross or Sawk, it is important to click Substitute on the first turn. This is made possible due to its Sitrus Berry, which allows Donphan to get a Substitute up even if Sturdy is activated on the first turn. If it is possible for Donphan to use another Substitute, it should almost always use attempt to get another Substitute up. After using Substitute as many times as possible, Donphan's Ice Shard after Endeavor can OHKO many Pokemon. i have a hard time getting behind this sentence but I'll let that be the gp persons job

whats the upside here to the ground gem (as far as i can tell its not having to predict whats stuff clicks) say that it makes it better into whatever you want to beat here, namely latios,specs manaphy bla bla


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lumii, 493772]]
- Quality checked by: [[Itchy, 518399], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]
when you update lmk I'll read it again
E:2/2
 
Last edited:

Adeleine

why did i bet on [LEAK] oh god oh fuck
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Add/Fix Remove Comment

removed extra linebreaks

name: Ground Gem
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Endeavor
move 4: Rock Slide / Head Smash / Counter
item: Ground Gem
ability: Sturdy
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Set Description
=============
Ground Gem-boosted Earthquake, Donphan's strongest STAB move, OHKOes Metagross and Heatran. Ice Shard lets Donphan KO many Pokemon at low HP that could otherwise 2HKO it in return, such as Haxorus, Magnezone, and Porygon-Z. Endeavor + Sturdy lets Donphan survive would-be OHKOs and bring the foe to 1 HP, which lets Ice Shard pick them off. (imo this is worth specifying + doing so here) Donphan's Rock Slide is for Aerodactyl, Substitute Tornadus, and Thundurus, while Head Smash is worse against the three but (I imagine?) better against bulky Choice Specs Zapdos. Counter allows Donphan to beat some physical attackers, such as Scrafty.

EVs
=============
Maximum attack Attack EVs and an Adamant nature let Donphan do as much damage as possible. The rest of the EVs are relatively insignificant, as Donphan can use its Sturdy + Endeavor strategy to KO with Ice Shard. Sturdy to avoid OHKOs and Ice Shard to bypass its Speed. (super minor but would dropping def evs–or even ivs–be better for counter donphan? feel free to add smth about counter and defense evs and/or ivs, only if you want)

Usage Tips
=============
If Donphan can get an opportunity starts out able (bc there are some times later where you wouldnt want to do this, eg if ice shard just ohkoes or maybe counter shenanigans. i assume so anyway? feel free to change things a different way) to 2HKO with an attacking move followed by some attack into Ice Shard, it should always use it. An example of this is against Sawk, which gets defeated by faints to Donphan's Earthquake + Ice Shard. Donphan should use Endeavor against threats that are expected to activate Donphan's its Sturdy. Against Latios, Donphan can either use Endeavor or Ice Shard, which often 3HKOes. If Latios uses an attacking move that makes Sturdy activate, attacks and activates Sturdy, Endeavor into Ice Shard wins. If Latios uses either Calm Mind or Trick, repeatedly using Ice Shard. Donphan, however, cannot Shard probably wins instead. Donphan cannot, however, (I imagine "probably wins instead" makes sense?) win against Latios that have Psyshock + Draco Meteor.

[SET]
name: Sitrus Berry + Endeavor
move 1: Endeavor
move 2: Ice Shard
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Earthquake
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Sturdy
nature: Brave
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Def
ivs: 0 SpD / 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Set Description
=============
Sturdy and a Sitrus Berry allow Donphan to more comfortably use Substitute on the first turn. Endeavor is used to get an opponent down to an amount of HP from which Ice Shard can KO. a foe in KO range of Ice Shard. Earthquake is Donphan's strongest STAB move and can OHKO Pokemon like Heatran.

EVs
=============
Maximum Attack is necessary in order to do as much damage as possible with Earthqauke + Ice Shard. Minimum Speed investment allows Donphan to be slower than Snorlax. 0 Speed IVs allow Donphan to use Substitute after Snorlax attacks. Donphan should also have 0 IVs in Special Defense to activate Sturdy more often. Since physical attacks rarely activate Sturdy anyway, 252 Defense EVs are used to help against physical attackers. (I imagine this makes sense? if not, pls clarify why youre running def investment on a mon w 0 spd ivs)

Usage Tips
=============
Unless Donphan can KO immediately with Earthquake + Ice Shard, Donphan it should always use Substitute on the first turn, which, due to its Sitrus Berry, can work even if Sturdy is activated. Donphan should continue to use Substitute until its HP does not allow it to use Substitute again. After this, Donphan can use Endeavor + Ice Shard to attempt to KO.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lumii, 493772]]
- Quality checked by: [[Itchy, 518399], [neomon, 408904]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429]]

Adeleine.gif

GP Team done
 

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