BW Role Compendium v2.0

Ophion

Crystal Beams
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
I think Toxicroak should be added under substitute users. it runs a SubPunch set among other sets with substitute.
Good catch, didn’t see this.
Could we possible add sableye into priority or a prankster section for mon such as torn and sableye
I don’t think Sableye has enough notability in the metagame overall to warrant this being a thing, especially since Torn doesn’t really utilize its Prankster much if at all on most teams.
 
While we're on the topic of Toxicroak, could it be moved to the standard section of Bulk Up users? It just doesn't look right to have it in the same section as Torn and Conk, both of which barely use Bulk Up. Is SD still Toxicroak's most used set? If not I would argue that it should be moved to the niche section, as it would fit right next to Scizor.
 
Would it make sense to include a section for toxic spikes absorbers? I know it's pretty niche, but it is a form of utility that may be worth pointing out.
 

FNH

Siatam's Eternal Understudy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Would it make sense to include a section for toxic spikes absorbers? I know it's pretty niche, but it is a form of utility that may be worth pointing out.

So adding a section dedicated to poison types? I dont see the useful that. Also I would venture to say that "Toxic Spikes Absorber" isnt really why people add the few good poison types to a team, so its not really a role here. Amoonguss is added as a Keldeo Loom check and to status opponents and so on. Toxicroak is added on teams as an attacker. Tentacruel is poison, so he abosrbs T-spikes, but I think "Spinners" is fine as is as it more thoroughly captures the role (not to mention excad/fort are both immune to t-spikes and can spin). I just dont think T-spike aborbtion is a legitmate role worth adding.
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
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Toxic Spikes absorber is far more of a role than "Normal Gem user".

I really don't understand who this thread is trying to help. Half of the things in the OP aren't real roles and don't help you with teambuilding. This thread also doesn't help new players in battles because if I have a Garchomp in front of me and don't know what kind of sets it can run, then I'd need to scroll through the entire list to find what roles Garchomp falls under in order to know I should scout for Dragon Gem.

Similarly, listing things like "Choice Scarfers" as roles is wholy misleading. Scarf Tyranitar, Scarf Landorus-T, and Scarf Moxie Salamence all utilise Choice Scarf in such wildly different ways (checkmate trapping, pivot/revenge killer, late-game sweeper) that they are almost incomparable. If anything, Scarf Landorus-T should be side-by-side with Sash Alakazam which is infinitely more comparable than either of those other scarfers. This applies in a lot of other places too.

If I'm being completely honest this thread comes off as people throwing out as much niche metagame knowledge as they can for whatever reason, with it then being compiled in a way that you'd have to already know the metagame pretty well to work out the meaning of. The only people who can understand this thread are the people who don't even need it.
 
I would venture to say that "Toxic Spikes Absorber" isnt really why people add the few good poison types to a team
While this is usually true, there are certain scenarios where someone would want the secondary role of t-spikes absorber from one of these mons. For example, if some one was building an offensive rain team with an analytic Starmie as its spinner, they might use croak over Breloom to deal with
t-spikes so that Starmie can stay healthy when removing other hazards. A similar thing could happen on sun teams using Donphan. They may use Amoonguss (or even Venusaur) over other keld checks to help keep that teams spinner healthy.
 

Ophion

Crystal Beams
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Toxic Spikes absorber is far more of a role than "Normal Gem user".

I really don't understand who this thread is trying to help. Half of the things in the OP aren't real roles and don't help you with teambuilding. This thread also doesn't help new players in battles because if I have a Garchomp in front of me and don't know what kind of sets it can run, then I'd need to scroll through the entire list to find what roles Garchomp falls under in order to know I should scout for Dragon Gem.

Similarly, listing things like "Choice Scarfers" as roles is wholy misleading. Scarf Tyranitar, Scarf Landorus-T, and Scarf Moxie Salamence all utilise Choice Scarf in such wildly different ways (checkmate trapping, pivot/revenge killer, late-game sweeper) that they are almost incomparable. If anything, Scarf Landorus-T should be side-by-side with Sash Alakazam which is infinitely more comparable than either of those other scarfers. This applies in a lot of other places too.

If I'm being completely honest this thread comes off as people throwing out as much niche metagame knowledge as they can for whatever reason, with it then being compiled in a way that you'd have to already know the metagame pretty well to work out the meaning of. The only people who can understand this thread are the people who don't even need it.
This is for teambuilding and a quick glance of what mons can serve a certain role or whatever in general moreso than in-battle aid. It’s so people can see “Oh, what uses scarf in the metagame?” for example in the more general sense rather than a comprehensive thing. I think you’re going into this thinking of it as a sets viability ranking or team structure guide, (the latter already exists and the former I am working on and will come out when I stop being lazy). Also. no need to degrade the purpose of this thread to “a bunch of dudes putting niche metagame knowledge” when it has a more useful purpose. These types of threads have existed for multiple tiers and generations and helped many people. It’d be one thing if you had suggestions for improvement in context for what the thread is actually meant for (aka not turning it into a thing that already exists or is being worked on atm, but it seems as if you don’t so yea. Ftr, this isn’t meant to be a jab at you or anything, Also, I’m not adding a TSpikes absorber section for the reasons FNH has already said.
 
On an unrelated note, why is it that Xatu is listed as a reflect user but not as a light screen user? I could understand reflect being more common and light screen being less so, but Xatu seems to capable of being a viable light screen setter. If there is a legitimate reason for this an explanation would be appreciated. Otherwise, please add Xatu to the light screen list.
 
On an unrelated note, why is it that Xatu is listed as a reflect user but not as a light screen user? I could understand reflect being more common and light screen being less so, but Xatu seems to capable of being a viable light screen setter. If there is a legitimate reason for this an explanation would be appreciated. Otherwise, please add Xatu to the light screen list.
Reflect is used on xatu because it helps vs ttar. Tar is one of the most common mons in the game and without reflect Xatu loses to it. Although xatu is being used on sand a bit more now, its been classically used on sun most often. Keeping hazards away is key for sun, so reflect is used to not die to tar. (also has other misc uses that i wont get into)
 

Caetano93

is a Forum Moderatoris a Past SPL Champion
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On an unrelated note, why is it that Xatu is listed as a reflect user but not as a light screen user? I could understand reflect being more common and light screen being less so, but Xatu seems to capable of being a viable light screen setter. If there is a legitimate reason for this an explanation would be appreciated. Otherwise, please add Xatu to the light screen list.
The standart Xatu set:

Xatu @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Night Shade
- U-turn
- Reflect / Feather Dance

Roost to keep health, NS and U-turn to not be a momentum sucker. The last slot is to not be defeated by Ttar (so you can U-turn safely AND keep SR out of your field side). The choice between Reflect or Feather Dance is because Reflect helps also your team mates but if not needed FD is the best option. Speed EVs to creep max speed Ttar.

Light Screen does not help Xatu in any MU since all SR / Spikes users are physical oriented mons.

4 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 248 HP / 188+ Def Xatu through Reflect: 108-127 (32.4 - 38.1%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO after sandstorm damage

88+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 248 HP / 188+ Def Xatu through Reflect: 127-150 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

208 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 248 HP / 188+ Def Xatu through Reflect: 126-148 (37.8 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage
 

Nalorium

a contender that refused to give up
is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Stuff I would add:

- Rock Gem: I love double dancer Lando with Sedge+Rock Gem, I have seen it quite a bit in ladder and it has been used in tournaments like the SPL by Jhon W.
-Substitute

- Mixed Attackers

- Agility user

- Add Hail (:puff:)

- Quick Attack user

Btw, there's 2 toxicroaks


Good job, this thread is very useful.
 

FNH

Siatam's Eternal Understudy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
you can probably add colbur section to berries with latios and more niche latias since its now mega popular with Psy spam teams
 
Could :bw/breloom: be added to Worry Seed users? Probably behind the slash since it is a fringe option, but it can mess with its checks such as Reuniclus.
 

Ophion

Crystal Beams
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
you can probably add colbur section to berries with latios and more niche latias since its now mega popular with Psy spam teams
Good suggestions, I implemented these.
Could :bw/breloom: be added to Worry Seed users? Probably behind the slash since it is a fringe option, but it can mess with its checks such as Reuniclus.
Can you cite me to where it's been used outside of some fringe seasonal? Anyway, since Breloom is on the topic, I added it to Grass Gem section since Dice and others players have advocated it and used it.
 
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Could we add Gliscor in the Stealth Rock section now? Cuz SR Gliscor had seen a lot of SPL usage and is even being more common in the ladder now. (I could give some replays but that will probably take a while due to how many times we had seen it in SPL). Edit: Also, can Celebi be added as a more common Stealth Rocker as well? Especially with how well it matches up against Tentacruel?

I feel like Celebi can technically count as a Special Wall due to its ability to wall common Rain mons, but can we list Slowking as a common special wall now? Cuz it has seen a lot more usage as a Keldeo counter in Sand Teams.

Sub Mamoswine is also much more common in the meta, can we add that to the Substitute Section?

Also, this hasn't been fixed yet:



 
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Ophion

Crystal Beams
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Could we add Gliscor in the Stealth Rock section now? Cuz SR Gliscor had seen a lot of SPL usage and is even being more common in the ladder now. (I could give some replays but that will probably take a while due to how many times we had seen it in SPL). Edit: Also, can Celebi be added as a more common Stealth Rocker as well? Especially with how well it matches up against Tentacruel?

I feel like Celebi can technically count as a Special Wall due to its ability to wall common Rain mons, but can we list Slowking as a common special wall now? Cuz it has seen a lot more usage as a Keldeo counter in Sand Teams.

Sub Mamoswine is also much more common in the meta, can we add that to the Substitute Section?

Also, this hasn't been fixed yet:


I've implemented all of these, it just slipped my mind in all honesty so thanks for pointing these oddities out. Also, yes, the Toxicroak is gone now, it only took a year for me to actually get rid of it lmao.

Also added an Air Balloon section so that's fun (in b4 Caetano93 tells me to put Air Balloon Latios to counter Mold Breaker Excadrill)
 
More Specific Utility

Ability / Moves
Magic Guard

:alakazam::reuniclus:|:sigilyph:
Magic Bounce
:xatu:|:espeon:
Wish
:jirachi:|:alomomola::chansey:
Trick
:latios::starmie::rotom-wash:|:latias::jirachi::reuniclus:
Healing Wish
:latias:|:cresselia::celebi::Jirachi:
Phazers
:skarmory::hippowdon::heatran:|:latias::garchomp::keldeo::slowking::tyranitar::riolu:
Knock Off
:gliscor::tornadus::ferrothorn::landorus-therian::tentacruel:|:seismitoad::tangrowth::Thundurus-Therian:
Worry Seed
:ferrothorn::amoonguss:|:tangrowth:
Encore
:alakazam::politoed:
Reflect
:xatu:|:azelf::latios:
Light Screen
None |:azelf::latios:
Taunt
:gliscor::jellicent::skarmory::heatran::tornadus::Mew: |:azelf::sableye::tyranitar::gengar::terrakion::Hydreigon:
Memento
None |:latios:
Substitute
:Mamoswine::keldeo::latias::gliscor::tornadus::garchomp::terrakion::excadrill::heatran::Tentacruel::jirachi::alakazam::magnezone::gyarados::dragonite::Breloom::thundurus-therian::Toxicroak:|:gengar::moltres::kyurem:

Status
Burn

:starmie::rotom-wash::gastrodon::slowbro::politoed::heatran::mew::ninetales::tentacruel::jellicent::keldeo:|:seismitoad::latios::latias::reuniclus::gengar::moltres::slowking::alomomola::sableye::milotic:
Paralysis
:Rotom-Wash::chansey::ferrothorn::amoonguss::breloom::cresselia::alakazam::thundurus-therian::slowbro::Latios::reuniclus::jirachi:|:slowking::magnezone::tyranitar::tangrowth::starmie::zapdos::Latias:
Poison
:heatran::politoed::tentacruel::excadrill::gastrodon::starmie::gliscor::keldeo::jirachi::hippowdon::cresselia::slowbro:|:chansey::bronzong::terrakion::garchomp::milotic::slowking::xatu::alomomola:
Hey, I think you should add a Section for like Suicide Leads.
That would be Nice to Add to the Compendium, as its a role used on some Hyper Offensive Teams in BW2 OU

Keep up the Great Work! :-)
 
OP copied from SoulWind Approved by Earthworm

BW2 OU TEAMBUILDING COMPENDIUM (v 2.0)
The idea of this thread is to provide a visual list of what Pokémon does what in the BW2 OU metagame.

Rules
  • One liners are fine, avoid double posting
  • Don't shitpost and don't be an idiot.
  • When suggesting things to be added/removed, provide decent reasoning as to why something should be added or removed.
  • Don't nominate unviable mons
  • For burn and paralysis, Pokemon that don't use the moves Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave / Stun Spore are listed for spreading those statuses. For burn, this is because they either use Scald (Water-types not Rotom-W), or they're known to run Flame Orb (Latios, Latias, Reuniclus). For paralysis, this is because they can spread Thunder paralysis (Reuniclus, Thundurus-T, Jirachi) or Body Slam paralysis (Jirachi).
  • In front of slash = standard and common, behind = niche and uncommon (usually applies to the specific role but a mon can be niche as a whole)
General and Important Team Roles

Entry Hazards
Stealth Rock:
:tyranitar::Garchomp::landorus-therian::heatran::jirachi::excadrill::ferrothorn::Gliscor::hippowdon::terrakion::chansey::skarmory::seismitoad:|:mamoswine::mew::bronzong::forretress::azelf::celebi:
Spikes:
:ferrothorn::skarmory:|:forretress:
Toxic Spikes:
:tentacruel:|:forretress:
Spinners:
:starmie::excadrill::tentacruel:|:forretress:
Spinblockers:
:jellicent:|:gengar::sableye:

Attackers
Physical Attackers:
:tyranitar::terrakion::garchomp::breloom::dragonite::excadrill::kyurem-black::landorus-therian::scizor::toxicroak::gyarados::mamoswine::salamence:|:victini::cloyster::weavile::metagross::azumarill:
Special Attackers:
:keldeo::latios::volcarona::alakazam::reuniclus::celebi::tornadus::thundurus-therian::heatran::magnezone::hydreigon::jirachi::kyurem::starmie::politoed::rotom-wash:|:mew::gengar::kingdra::moltres::vaporeon::latias:
Mixed Attackers:
:garchomp::jirachi::tyranitar::landorus-therian:|:mienshao::tornadus::hydreigon::kyurem-black:

Walls
Special Walls:

:jirachi::heatran::jellicent::ferrothorn::tyranitar::rotom-wash::excadrill::chansey::tentacruel::Celebi:|:slowking::forretress::bronzong:
Physical Walls:
:skarmory::gliscor::hippowdon::mew::landorus-therian::slowbro::cresselia::reuniclus::Ferrothorn: |:zapdos::alomomola::tangrowth:
Mixed Walls:
:ferrothorn::amoonguss::jellicent::cresselia::gastrodon::rotom-wash::tentacruel::slowbro::gliscor:|:milotic::chansey::bronzong:

Setup Sweepers
Dragon Dance:

:dragonite::gyarados:|:salamence::latios:
Swords Dance:
:garchomp::breloom::landorus-therian::excadrill::terrakion::gliscor::toxicroak:|:scizor:
Agility / Rock Polish:
:thundurus-therian::terrakion::landorus-therian:|:metagross:
Calm Mind:
:keldeo::jirachi::reuniclus::latios:|:celebi::latias:
Nasty Plot:
:celebi::thundurus-therian:|:mew:
Bulk Up:
:breloom:|:tornadus::conkeldurr::toxicroak:
Quiver Dance:
:volcarona:
Shell Smash:
:cloyster:|:omastar:
Tailwind:
:tornadus:| :Latias:
Gravity:
none | :Landorus-Therian:

Trick Room:
:Reuniclus:

Weather
Sand:

:tyranitar::hippowdon:
Rain:
:politoed:
Sun:
:ninetales:

Trapping
:tyranitar::magnezone::heatran::scizor:|:weavile::Metagross:

Pivots
Regenerator:

:amoonguss::slowbro::mienshao:|:tangrowth::slowking:
U-turn:
:scizor::landorus-therian::jirachi::tornadus::mienshao::xatu:|:thundurus-therian::hydreigon:
Volt Switch:
:rotom-wash:|:magnezone::thundurus-therian:
Baton Pass:
:celebi:|:gliscor::zapdos::mew::vaporeon:

Suicide Leads
:Jirachi: :Terrakion: :Landorus_Therian: :Garchomp: :Mamoswine: :Excadrill: I :Breloom:

Priority
Bullet Punch:

:scizor:
ExtremeSpeed:
:dragonite:
Sucker Punch:
:toxicroak:
Ice Shard:
:mamoswine:|:weavile::cloyster:
Mach Punch:
:breloom:|:conkeldurr:
Aqua Jet:
:azumarill:|:keldeo:
Quick Attack:
:Terrakion:
Hey Man!, your missing some Suicide Leads like Skarmory, Forretress, Azelf, Aerodactyl and Infernape (Last 3 having a niche in BW OU as a Lead-off)

Question: How can Jirachi be a Suicide Lead?, if so, May I see a Pokepaste.
Also, can you add Pokémon's Dual Screens in the ''More Specific Utility'' Section. That would be Nice :-)
 

Ophion

Crystal Beams
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Hey Man!, your missing some Suicide Leads like Skarmory, Forretress, Azelf, Aerodactyl and Infernape (Last 3 having a niche in BW OU as a Lead-off)

Question: How can Jirachi be a Suicide Lead?, if so, May I see a Pokepaste.
Also, can you add Pokémon's Dual Screens in the ''More Specific Utility'' Section. That would be Nice :-)
You right, sorry. I wrote those in last night as I was tired and wrote it in the context of Jirachi being a good lead on HO, but it's not a suicide lead. I fixed all of that. As for Forre, Zelf, Aero, and Nape, imma need replays to add them as even a niche cause I haven't seen them be a suicide lead (haven't seen the latter 3 at all in fact) in a single even remotely noteworthy game, let alone as a lead. I added Skarm and removed Rachi tho. For other stuff changed, I put Scizor in main SD'rs since Smurf is rising again and put Toxicroak in niche SD and Sub since Croak rains dead, moved Forre to niche Volt Switch where it should be, moved Cloy to niche Shell Smash since King Rocks banned, took Azelf off sections where it was before since this post reminded me that mon is actually dogshit and isn't even ranked on the VR, added Liepard to niche phazer since it's on the VR and Latios to main phazer, added a Life Orb section, and moved Azu to niche AJet cause it sucks lol. Btw, there's a screens section in the 3rd post, kinda empty since screens setters suck in this tier.
 

peng

fuck xatu
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Suicide lead section is a bit weird - really only Skarmory and Landorus-T are BW suicide leads, with Double Edge Aerodactyl being after the slash. Terrakion would fit there too. Garchomp, Breloom, Mamoswine, Excadrill aren’t really suicide leads, just mons that can viably run Sash (even that is arguable for the latter three) and can lead effectively, but they aren’t suicide leads, imo.

Cloyster is still very relevant, its gotten a second wind now people use actually use consistent items on it (nmi, gems) - bumping it down is premature.

Ttar is near top for paralysis with twave becoming its 5th or 6th best move. Skarmory a niche one (secret power)
 

Ophion

Crystal Beams
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Suicide lead section is a bit weird - really only Skarmory and Landorus-T are BW suicide leads, with Double Edge Aerodactyl being after the slash. Terrakion would fit there too. Garchomp, Breloom, Mamoswine, Excadrill aren’t really suicide leads, just mons that can viably run Sash (even that is arguable for the latter three) and can lead effectively, but they aren’t suicide leads, imo.

Cloyster is still very relevant, its gotten a second wind now people use actually use consistent items on it (nmi, gems) - bumping it down is premature.

Ttar is near top for paralysis with twave becoming its 5th or 6th best move. Skarmory a niche one (secret power)
I decided to do all of these since Aero's ranked anyway so fuck it. I put Chomp in a good sash user and the other 3 behind the sash slash if that's good enough along with Aero since its in suicide lead anyway. Also, idk why tar was in niche, didn't mean for that but ty for catching it. Also, forgot to mention but added an Ice Gem section for Cloy.
 
You right, sorry. I wrote those in last night as I was tired and wrote it in the context of Jirachi being a good lead on HO, but it's not a suicide lead. I fixed all of that. As for Forre, Zelf, Aero, and Nape, imma need replays to add them as even a niche cause I haven't seen them be a suicide lead (haven't seen the latter 3 at all in fact) in a single even remotely noteworthy game, let alone as a lead. I added Skarm and removed Rachi tho. For other stuff changed, I put Scizor in main SD'rs since Smurf is rising again and put Toxicroak in niche SD and Sub since Croak rains dead, moved Forre to niche Volt Switch where it should be, moved Cloy to niche Shell Smash since King Rocks banned, took Azelf off sections where it was before since this post reminded me that mon is actually dogshit and isn't even ranked on the VR, added Liepard to niche phazer since it's on the VR and Latios to main phazer, added a Life Orb section, and moved Azu to niche AJet cause it sucks lol. Btw, there's a screens section in the 3rd post, kinda empty since screens setters suck in this tier.
Well, Smogon says that they have a Niche due to Infernape, Azelf, Aerodactyl's is Naturally Fast getting up Stealth Rocks before Fainting so might as well.
Infernape | BW | Smogon Strategy Pokedex
Aerodactyl | BW | Smogon Strategy Pokedex
Azelf | BW | Smogon Strategy Pokedex
Note: Azumarill doesn't suck LOL it has Powerful Priority boosted by Rain and Choice Band. Azumarill | BW | Smogon Strategy Pokedex
It can really Put in the Work.

Thanks!
 

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