Resource BW Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
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OU & NU Leader
Can someone explain the point of salac mamoswine on rain? NMI just seems a lot better to me. The amount of damage you need for it to actually sweep any non drag-mag team is way too high, esp without sand. And it's just piss weak.

Not even being able to kill latios after rocks is TRASHHHH
Doing 30% or less to skarm and rotom is TRASHHHH
He even admits its a CT lol
No need to be rude about something that has not been used in well over a year, but I will gladly humor you.

Salac Mamoswine was invented in January 2021, which was a time before all of the following:
  • I came up with Air Balloon Starmie
  • Technician Breloom and Scizor saw consistent usage
  • Cloyster saw any usage at all
  • Air Balloon Jellicent existed
Checking and revenge killing Salac Mamoswine was a much different animal back then because of this. In addition, Skarmory usage was much lower and Rotom-W were far more SDef, when PDef is now needed for Cloyster, which explains the two Pokemon you brought up.

Overall, Salac Berry on Mamoswine is fringe at absolute best right now and even back then it only worked on very particular teams; I used it because I expected offense before offenses had evolved to use as much priority and Air Balloon Starmie. If you don't like it, don't use it. It was better in a metagame that no longer exists. NMI, Chople, Leftovers, Scarf, and even Band are all superior on Mamoswine now.
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
What are the best answers against quiver dance + bug gem volcarona?
Depends on the other coverage. Tentacruel in Rain with Toxic is a good answer usually. A lot of things are circumstantial though. For example, Heatran is a counter if it's not HP Ground, Dragonite works if it is at full health or there is no HP Ice, Keldeo is great if it's Choice Scarf or Volcarona is not Giga Drain, and Scarf Latios can do the trick with some chip. Terrakion is also great, but depends on Sand being up or a lack of Giga Drain / Psychic. Finally, things like Encore Politoed, Gyarados, Sash Psyshock Alakazam, and Salamence can also work in some settings.
 
Why some deoxys-s run fling + King's rock in hyper offense in BW Ubers ?
Not a current Meta Ubers expert, but I believe that this works well vs Sash Deo-A, since you flinch it and then KO with another Move, so you don't get hazards on your side. Also works vs the rare Froslass or (depending on the other offensive move of Deo-S) Sash Excadrill and Sash Aerodactyl. To sum it up, this allows Deo-S to win vs Sash leads without the mind games that involve using Taunt.
 

Gamer1234556

"Because... Scald is a shit Ferro answer!!!"
For Sand Teams, what is the best way to answer Aerodactyl? Cuz I feel like no matter what you lead you always end up at a disadvantage especially when it outspeeds any viable Sand Pokemon and Taunts them to death.
 

zf alt 2

Banned deucer.
For Sand Teams, what is the best way to answer Aerodactyl? Cuz I feel like no matter what you lead you always end up at a disadvantage especially when it outspeeds any viable Sand Pokemon and Taunts them to death.
depends on what you’re trying to prevent exactly?

if sr, you can lead rotomW and voltswitch into exca and spin. you can also use something like rocktomb exca to lower its speed…

honestly aero itself isn’t that threatening, and on many structures, your best play is probably to just let it get up sr and ensure whatever mon kills it can prevent setup from the sweepers that are most dangerous to your team (usually volc or cloy)…your best off thinking about this in the builder (but not necessarily making huge changes to teams) and correcting your mindset/play to mitigate the payoffs on Aero squads (the setup sweepers) than managing the enablers (the suicide sr setters or screeners)
 
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Hey Finchinator Why hasn't victini gotten banhammered from BW UU? Can you guys on the council vote on holding a suspect test or a quickban vote for black and white victini? This thing has been terrorizing UU since who knows when and deserves a quickban or a suspect test. This would immensely benefit the health of UU since BW UU has been a very unhealthy metagame that revolves around beating Victini or abusing your own Victini. Victini is so toxic for BW UU because no matter how much you prep for it, just like every other gen it always has a way to work around its checks and counters. BW UU needs some serious work just like BW OU, and getting Victini out of UU and put into UUBL is a great first step since that thing has been overcentralizing for a long time. Anyway, all I ask is that you bring this up to the council and get them to do something about this, because it should definitely should have been banned already and victini has been banworthy for far too long.
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Hey Finchinator Why hasn't victini gotten banhammered from BW UU? Can you guys on the council vote on holding a suspect test or a quickban vote for black and white victini? This thing has been terrorizing UU since who knows when and deserves a quickban or a suspect test. This would immensely benefit the health of UU since BW UU has been a very unhealthy metagame that revolves around beating Victini or abusing your own Victini. Victini is so toxic for BW UU because no matter how much you prep for it, just like every other gen it always has a way to work around its checks and counters. BW UU needs some serious work just like BW OU, and getting Victini out of UU and put into UUBL is a great first step since that thing has been overcentralizing for a long time. Anyway, all I ask is that you bring this up to the council and get them to do something about this, because it should definitely should have been banned already and victini has been banworthy for far too long.
I have supported a Victini ban in BW UU for 5+ years (not kidding -- that post is from back in 2017).

Also, the BW tiering council (and old generation councils) are largely there for OU rather than lower tiers.

Not too sure why I was tagged or why I am the authority on this matter in your eyes, but I personally support looking into Victini in BW UU.
 
Were there any non-legendary Pokemon besides Blaziken who were banned from BW OU at some point? If so, what were the reasonings for the ban(s)?
 

Finchinator

no longer Harry’s house
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Were there any non-legendary Pokemon besides Blaziken who were banned from BW OU at some point? If so, what were the reasonings for the ban(s)?
Excadrill was banned earlier on in the generation’s life largely due to Sand Rush variants being allowed.
 
Excadrill was banned earlier on in the generation’s life largely due to Sand Rush variants being allowed.
So was it only Excadrill for non-legendary Pokemon besides Blaziken being banned? Is there a link I can access for the thread containing further reasoning for Excadrill ban?
 
Why isn't Conkeldurr OU by technicality?

It's a pretty awful mon with little usage, and is never seen in tournament play. It also is C rank in the viability rankings below several UU or lower tiered mons. Also, Hippowdon was moved down to OU by technicality more recently which makes no sense cause Hippowdon is unanimously considered better than Conkeldurr.
 

Fakee

LA FLAME
is a Tutor
Why isn't Conkeldurr OU by technicality?

It's a pretty awful mon with little usage, and is never seen in tournament play. It also is C rank in the viability rankings below several UU or lower tiered mons. Also, Hippowdon was moved down to OU by technicality more recently which makes no sense cause Hippowdon is unanimously considered better than Conkeldurr.
the rankings are not updated frequently, as in the case of conkeldurr there is also gengar, they are mons that do not have much use in the tier but they are there because the usages are not updated often, it is true that hippowdon is a little more used than conk but none of them has the consistency to be OU imo
 
How many dragons are typically used on competitive dragmag teams currently?
While I don't use dragmag that much so this advice is by no means objective, but personally, whenever I use dragmag, I generally prefer having 3 dragons and another pokemon that can act either as a pokemon that can help against opposing dragons like mamoswine, a spinner like starmie, a pokemon like keldeo that can deal with problematic HO threats like volc and cloyster, and some late game sweepers like tr reuniclus can work as well on specific teams (alongside the mandatory magnezone and defensive steel type for the 2 remaining slots). That being said, while I think using 3 dragons gives the most consistent results, you don't have to use 3 dragons. some teams run 4 dragons to further make sure that the dragons will get the job after you trap the opponent's steels, but you really need to use scarf chomp to make sure that you don't instantly lose to HO. Some teams even run just 2 dragons to make room for more support, but it's generally harder to overwhelm teams with just 2 dragons so I wouldn't recommend it if you're just starting to learn how to play dragmag.

To sum up, I personally think 3 dragons is the magic number, but 4 or 2 dragons can work well too.
 
Why isn't Conkeldurr OU by technicality?

It's a pretty awful mon with little usage, and is never seen in tournament play. It also is C rank in the viability rankings below several UU or lower tiered mons. Also, Hippowdon was moved down to OU by technicality more recently which makes no sense cause Hippowdon is unanimously considered better than Conkeldurr.
OU by Technicality updates every 6 months and is meant to include Pokémon whose usage in the OU ladders don't even reach 2.28% nowadays. I agree that like half of the Pokémon on that list are better than Conk but it is what it is
 
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The sample team thread was closed citing it was going to wait for SPL, but it's been a long time and still no updates have been made. When will the thread be unlocked?
 
Yo lets suspect test Darkrai
Darkrai is significantly less potent without sleep. The only real sets i can see it running are nasty plot and specs. Darkrai has decent coverage, but enough counters for it to be reasonable. A set with NP Dark Pulse Focus Blast and Thunder gets crippled by Chople Berry Ttar with t wave, walled by venusaur with decent spdef, colbur reuni, and a few others. If you drop NP for more coverage and specs, you get outsped and OHKO'd by specs latios if modest, and damn near OHKO'd by scarf latios if timid. Specs Darkrai could run dark pulse focus blast thunder and psychic, but that leaves it open to Gastrodon. DP FB and Thunder are staple moves on specs/scarf, and it does have a lot of coverage, but when you remove something it leaves you dastardly open to its checks.
Darkrai has been banned for a long time, but to my knowledge its never been suspect tested or even considered to be taken off the ban list in recent times, even when its darling dark void got banned with sleep moves. Now its just a really solid fast special sweeper, one that I think is reasonable to be unbanned in our modern metagame.
 

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