BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

I really think Tangrowth is better than Amoonguss and walls a large portion of OU. It can take outrages, earthquakes and stone edges much better than the Mushroom. Leech Seed/Earthquake are nice moves to have to wear down Jirachi or Heatran, or for stalling out Pokemon such as bulk up Conkeldurr. I guess it all depends on weather you want a special or physical wall.
Since Jcp mentioned Tangrowth, I figured I'd post one of my favorite combos in this metagame and a Regenerator core superior to AmoongBro:
Tangrowth + Slowking.

Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Slowking (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 16 Def / 12 SAtk / 216 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Dragon Tail
- Slack Off

Like Jcp said, Tangrowth is a boss. I've been using it since Excadrill days and it is just incredibly reliable; tanks physical hits like no tomorrow, and between Leech Seed and Regenerator, it never dies. Unfortunately its SpDef is beyond bad, it absolutely blows.

Slowking is a hell of a great rain counter; for example, Choice Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump can't 2HKO...that's impressive. It's got reliable recovery and Regenerator. Too bad its physical defense is below average, but Scald's burn rate helps with that to some extent (screw you Scizor!!!).

This core works best with multiple entry hazards because they force loads of switches and Slowking can phaze with Dragon Tail; I personally like Forretress for this role because it can set-up any hazard I want and can also Rapid Spin; even though this core doesn't mind Stealth Rock as much as other physical walls, Toxic Spikes are still a bitch and it's just much easier to wall things when you come in and take damage before you even get hit with an attack.

Overall, Tang + King is an incredibly solid defensive combination, give it a shot.


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I find T-Wave more useful than Dragon Tail overall. Many boosting special attackers that Slowking would want to phaze carry Sub or are beat by Psyshock, such as CM Latias, CM Jirachi, and CM Keldeo. Obviously D-Tail helps rack up entry hazard damage, but T-Wave helps imensely against many offensive mons, especially against Tornadus-T, as Slowking can take two Hurricanes and paralyze it back, while without T-Wave its only option is to spam Slack Off 'till LO damage takes its toll on Torn-T, which is very risky due the 30% confusion chance.


Banned deucer.
no more genesect B)

i really think this will be a positive change for the game in general, because now instead of just slapping genesect on teams you actually have to think about teambuilding. also now there's no ultra strong fast scizor revenge killing literally everything with base speed less than 100. no more rock polish instant broken sweeper, no more obnoxious ebelt set or overpowered cb set...i might enjoy ou for the first time in months

edit: can't use my sun team anymore though...

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I can't use Genesect on my team anymore. That simple.

Anyway, not that I'm complaining about Genesect's banning; Its banning is definitely going to make team building easier for me since I don't have to worry about it killing everything or being a fucking broken RP sweeper. Maybe I'll make a team that I actually enjoy using. Overall, Genesect was super annoying and made the metagame dull, so I am very much happy about this change.
I think Genesect getting banned will make balanced teams much more viable now. He was simply too good at picking anything less than offense/hyper offense apart and hurt stall even more than it already was hurt. That said, will be a rocky week ahead as the removal of genesect will definitely cause a huge metagame shift... Scizor back in top 5 anyone?
I think pretty much everyone here is glad that gene is gone.Its nice to see mons' such as hydregion, alakazam and reuniclus will becomeing much better now. The only thing I dont like about gene gone is....more scizor...ew...


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I feel kind of ambivalent about all the tournaments I'm in now that genesect is Uber because I felt so comfortable and in control abusing the scarf and rp and specs sets on various teams, now I have to go back and team build. Further, the post genesect metagame is still horrible, with rain as overpowering as it is so I just really want to get to the next round and ban Tornadus-t or Keldeo in order to bring a balance back. Two steps forward one step back type of situation I guess.
there was never balance, more like becoming a teeter. rain is too dominant in the non gene metagame and i believe those rain abusers will end up banned too and we'll basically get back to bw1 lol, its kinda the solution though, fuck torn-t seriously
Instead of banning rain abusers, what about trying to see what happens if other weather abusers (Excadrill, as I doubt Sand Veil Garchomp will return) and see what happens (Either Sand teams regain some of their lost ground or nothing changes)?

Dark Fallen Angel

Now that Genesect is gone, I feel much more comfortable building teams. The fact that I don't need to prepare for Genesect anymore means now that I can make my team without guilt on my heart.

I can see some positive changes on the metagame. For example, Dugtrio's usage declining, which means that Tyranitar will see a rose on usage. However, I'm not a soothsayer to tell if this will really happen; I am only saying this based on the fact that Dugtrio's usage increased greatly when Genesect was introduced on the metagame. I hope that people use Tyranitar more, and stop using things like Shed Shell Heatran :)

About Genesect itself, it was way too versatile to prepare for him without having your team vulnerable to one other thing. For example, I was using Choice Band Tyranitar as a check to Genesect, which made my team more weak to Dugtrio, and if I used SpD Hippowdon, my team lost some good offensive prowess.

Dark Fallen Angel

While not as huge a deal as it is in Ubers, the fact that Excadrill now also gets Mold Breaker is extremely cool to slap floaty crap like Rotom-W, Lati@s, Hydreigon, and Bronzong. Again like in Ubers, a bulky Rapid Spin set may be something to look in to if our beloved 2'4" mole is given a test.

Rain is huge. Sand was murdered with BW2 with Tornadus, Keldeo, formerly Gene sect, and Landorus using Sheer Force more often. I'm interested to see an attempt at balancing weathers, especially now that we have Breloom.

Landorus is only using Sheer Force more often because it's the only way which it can be used on non-sandstorm teams. Physical Landorus is actually stronger on sandstorm teams. Sandstorm wasn't necessarily murdered with these threats that you said; All of them can be played around. Keldeo is even a boon for sandstorm teams themselves, as it is a great wallbreaker and check for opposing rain teams.

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So Genesect got banned.

Can't say i'm surprised, guess but a part of me is depressed to see it go because I really liked it, its a damn pity it ended up being broken. Though for the most part, I like this change. The metagame (slowly) gets better and variability slightly goes up, so no harm done. Good riddance even!


Reunited and it feels so good ♪

Dark Fallen Angel

Definitely thought the link was going to lead to a Hydreigon, but Haxorus is close enough. It's definitely an interesting time for the metagame right now, and some of the threats that genesect was best at checking should be getting some more usage. I'm looking to see a resurgance in Therian usage, and maybe even Celebi.
Speaking of Celebi, I think that some of its offensive sets, like Nasty Plot and that offensive tank, became significantly more viable. I hope that people use more Celebi as a check to rain teams, especially against Keldeo. The only thing on rain teams that really threat Celebi is Tornadus-T, and that's a problem that's fairly easy to solve with something like SpD Jirachi.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: a ban on perma-weather is the better alternative. Multiple steps have been taken to balance rain, and it's still the dominant force. This "new metagame" is little more than Weather Wars II, Attack of the Therians. Battles that boil down to Politoed vs. Ninetales/T-tar are not a sign of a healthy metagame, and bringing back Excadrill or Blaziken would only worsen that situation.


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I personally dont feel that rain (or any weather really) is particularly dominant.

Rain, however, feels like its "too good" simply because it is the easiest weather to build a successful team around but that does not mean that it is the best type of team to build.

Other weathers or team archetypes may be harder to build around but can be just as successful from my experience.

Also anyone who suggests bringing something down because it checks something that they consider broken is not thinking very logically. Broken stuff should not check broken stuff (in OU atleast). If something is broken then ban it, dont look for something to be unbanned so that something else can be checked.


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Sigh...Genesect gone. Honestly, my feelings about this are the exact same as when Sand Stream got banned from UU. I seriously will miss Genesect now, because I loved using him, but at the same time I'd say "Good Riddance!" because of how it was overcentralizing the meta. Now I can use Lucario without fail again.

Dugtrio is sure to lose some usage because "DuggySect" is no more. This hopefully means that Ttar will see a rise in usage.

Anyways, nice to see we got results on the Genesect Suspect Test.

Dark Fallen Angel

I don't particulary care about what happens with Tornadus-T or not, but I don't see why it should be banned. It is easy to deal with fast Scarfers with super-effective or rain/sun-boosted attacks. Tornadus is also dependent on rain to spam Hurricane. If you aren't battling against another rain team, don't think that you can simply click on Hurricane without impunity. One time or another, Hurricane will miss.

Although I must agree that if you don't properly prepare for it, you will be screwed. Hurricane is so strong that it can 2HKO even Rotom-A, which resists the attack (if it isn't using a specially defensive set, of course). Tyranitar can tank Hurricanes pretty well, but is screwed by Superpower or Focus Blast. Hippowdon cannot take a Hurricane at all, and while Ninetales can check Tornadus-T, it also cannot take a Hurricane.
I have to say that i wouldnt ban genesect just because genesect is not that hard to counter, because its sets are pretty well known. The main reason why it was banned is because every team had to think of countering genesect. Now, doesnt everyone have to think of terrakion as well. I mean a CB Terrakion 2OHKO'es a Skarmory. Also, everyone has to have a direct Keldeo counter on his team or else he will be simply destroyed in a couple of rounds.
In addition, everyone has to have weather counters if they are not using a weather themselves. Even then they have to check the other weathers and other weather abusers. That means that this metagame is much much more centralized on weather than on genesect. Nearly 70% of the metagame is permanent weather. I think that there were bigger priorities than genesect.
Anyways i hope we will have a more balanced metagame in the future.


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Those were exactly my conclusions, emirinho. Whenever I build teams, I think to myself, "am I well-prepared against Tornadus-T, Keldeo, Salamence, Chlorophyll users, Sun-boosted Fire-types, Terrakion, RP Landorus, and Stoutland?" Genesect to me pales in comparison to the above threats, and I never thought, "wow, Genesect ruins this team" (at least not the teams I made during BW2). There's just many pressing threats out there for me to prepare heavily, and Genesect wasn't one of them.
I'm pretty sure discussing Genesect now that it's banned it's off-topic for the thread so it should be kept to a minimum...

Anyways, there are still many powerful tools in the metagame, I really look foward to see if Keldeo gets a little push in the regular ladder, or if Landorus stablishes itself as the top threat in the game. Without Genesect's comfortable Dragon resistance Dragonite regains some of it's viability, but I'd argue it's far from the top threat right now... Maybe Salamence will drop in usage?


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Hi this is an OU general metagame thread and last I checked Blaziken and Excadrill were uber so can we not discuss it being unbanned / banned since its not relevent to the thread, and it derails it completely. I am aware that some people dislike the metagame and have there own opinions on how to fix it, but how about we wait a little for the metagame to stabilize with the Genesect ban before discussing what to suspect / unban. (Regardless the Council is aware of the concerns of the playerbase so just give it some time).


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