BW2 In-Game Tier List Discussion [Updated 7/24]

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Between Top tier and Mid tier, there is High Tier, where Mareep belongs (My point of view)

And Mandibuzz is BLACK2 only, has only 55 Sp Att for Nasty Plot build (Sp Att : Air Slash and Dark Pulse came at 41/46), and only 65 Att for Physical build. She doesn't do very well againt Electric Gym, and isn't super effective against Ground, Flying, Dragon or Water Gym)

Low tier for me
 
Except she can easily get +6 in those gyms and sweep, because she's pretty much unkillable outside of strong eletric/rock attacks. She doesn't need to hit stuff super effectively to be useful.
 
Snarl also comes around the same time as Mandibuzz so it's not like NP's gone to waste for 30 levels. Not high tier material definitely, but she's not so /bad/ as to be Low, especially when she's probably going to be thrashing all of your pokemon in terms of sheer bulk.
 
Except she can easily get +6 in those gyms and sweep, because she's pretty much unkillable outside of strong eletric/rock attacks. She doesn't need to hit stuff super effectively to be useful.

I don't think that set-up on every battle can be considered as "Mid tier"
 
Between Top tier and Mid tier, there is High Tier, where Mareep belongs (My point of view)

And Mandibuzz is BLACK2 only, has only 55 Sp Att for Nasty Plot build (Sp Att : Air Slash and Dark Pulse came at 41/46), and only 65 Att for Physical build. She doesn't do very well againt Electric Gym, and isn't super effective against Ground, Flying, Dragon or Water Gym)

Low tier for me

I agree that Mandibuzz having to set up to do anything worthwhile is a downer, and I would personally expect her to be lower on the last. But she is available very early, and her bulk is impressive if setting up is your thing. I'm sure she's not terrible, but I think a few people have overhyped her: my understanding was that usefulness should be based off ability to immediately pose a threat.

I don't think version exclusivity should have any negative impact on tier placement, though. It's a fact of life in these games, and if someone is good then good for the folks with that version.

On that subject, has anyone else used Braviary? As I said in my previous post, I think he's probably the best Flying type available provided you're playing W2, due to his power and early availability, but I haven't seen many others mention him.
 
Just a reminder: if you want your vote to count, make sure to actually include a tier in your post (preferably bolded).
 
Again I ask, how the hell is Azurill mid? Should be top or at least high.

Because Azumarill is slow, has poor TM choices and inaccurate STAB before Waterfall. Not to mention a friendship requirement for evolving, AND both Azurill and Marill are very bad. He would be better if breeding was an option (yay Aqua Jet), but it isn't - not before post game.
 
Because Azumarill is slow, has poor TM choices and inaccurate STAB before Waterfall. Not to mention a friendship requirement for evolving, AND both Azurill and Marill are very bad. He would be better if breeding was an option (yay Aqua Jet), but it isn't - not before post game.

...But Maril evolves into Azumarill at level 18, and people are reporting left and right their Riolu/Azurill are evolving at level 19-21...
 
...But Maril evolves into Azumarill at level 18, and people are reporting left and right their Riolu/Azurill are evolving at level 19-21...

To be honest, it's really the slowness of Azumarill. I used it twice and it's a fun mon to use. However, it's definitely not the fastest. Although it has pretty nice bulk, you don't want to play a game where you're always going second. If it had nicer Speed, it would be High (and OU, probably, but that's irrelevant).
 
So did the new additions to the pokedex shift the speed "thing" BW1 had where in everything was either a glacier or fast to the point where it didn't matter
 
Azurill has a period where it is nothing but utter trash, and only when you get to Azumarill does it truly shine. Albeit you can always give it Work Up + Frustration/Return for post-Cheren offense, so it's not exactly so bad. It's just that its start is pretty bad.

Interestingly, Azurill gets Bounce at L23, so it may be an option worth considering in terms of coverage (but having to give up Aqua Tail until the move relearner is kind of iffy...). Marill also gets Double-Edge at the exact same level, so its not like his offense is lacking.
 
But Return > Double Edge, no ?

I didn't know that Bounce could be learned, and to be honest, Bounce seems more useful than Stab Aqua Tail before the more relearner no ? (Burgh's gym : Bounce is VERRRRY effective against Sewaddle line, but Aqua Tail only hurts Dwebble, and you won't use Azumarill against High Speed Electrik pokemon from Elesa's gym). When you come to Driftveil against Clay's ground Pokemon, you could use the relearner to have the Aqua Tail, no ?
 
Move relearner is in PWT which is unaccessible until Clay is beaten, hence the point about losing Aqua Tail being very iffy. Double Edge is a stronger option for Marill, if you don't mind the recoil (and honestly the over 9000 potions etc. you get in-game makes it viable)
 
While Bounce would hit fairly hard in the gym, you still have the issue of giving up your STAB just to attack a gym. It seems more feasible to just clear through it with Pignite, Magby, Zubat, etc., as they're better suited and you aren't hampering your Pokemon for it.

I concede that (Azu)Marill would deal with the Dwebble better, but at that point it seems wiser to just let it have Aqua Tail, use that for those Pokemon, and let your Fire and Flying Pokemon handle the rest.
 
...ok I just had a brainfart. Double-checked on Serebii, found out that Bounce is at the Driftveil tutor, aka its free. >_____________________> (somehow I thought Bounce was at Yamaji or sth)

Yeah, no point keeping Azurill to L23 for Bounce then. That is, if you still want to go with Bounce and not the slightly more reliable standard of Ice Punch.
 
Here is a list of Pokemon that currently do not have enough votes to appear on the tier list:

Code:
[LIST]
[*]Absol
[*]Audino
[*]Banette
[*]Basculin
[*]Bouffalant
[*]Braviary
[*]Buizel
[*]Buneary
[*]Castform
[*]Clefairy
[*]Combee
[*]Cottonee
[*]Cubchoo
[*]Deerling
[*]Delibird
[*]Ditto
[*]Drifblim
[*]Druddigon
[*]Dunsparce
[*]Dwebble
[*]Elekid
[*]Elgyem
[*]Emolga
[*]Espeon
[*]Ferroseed
[*]Foongus
[*]Frillish
[*]Gligar
[*]Golurk
[*]Gothita
[*]Grimer
[*]Heracross
[*]Jolteon
[*]Karrablast
[*]Klink
[*]Koffing
[*]Lapras
[*]Litwick
[*]Lunatone
[*]Magby
[*]Maractus
[*]Metang
[*]Mienfoo
[*]Minccino
[*]Nosepass
[*]Numel
[*]Onix
[*]Panpour
[*]Pansage
[*]Pansear
[*]Patrat
[*]Pawniard
[*]Pelipper
[*]Pidove
[*]Piloswine
[*]Pinsir
[*]Purrloin
[*]Rattata
[*]Remoraid
[*]Roggenrola
[*]Rufflet
[*]Sandshrew
[*]Sawk
[*]Seel
[*]Seviper
[*]Shelmet
[*]Skarmory
[*]Skitty
[*]Skorupi
[*]Sneasel
[*]Solosis
[*]Solrock
[*]Spheal
[*]Spoink
[*]Staryu
[*]Sunkern
[*]Swablu
[*]Tangela
[*]Throh
[*]Timburr
[*]Trubbish
[*]Tynamo
[*]Umbreon
[*]Vanillish
[*]Vaporeon
[*]Venipede
[*]Vullaby
[*]Woobat
[*]Yamask
[*]Zangoose
[*]Zebstrika
[*]Zubat
[*]Zweilous
[/LIST]

Because there are so many Pokemon, I'm going to change the protocol a bit. If you have played the game and have a good grasp of the trainers/challenges it presents, you may submit a "theory vote" for one of the above Pokemon. If you do so, label the post as a theory vote and back up your reasoning with specific examples.

If you wan't some more input on your votes, you can join #orangeislands and start a discussion. A lot of the people in the channel have played the game multiple times and we can iron out some of the specifics.

I still have about fifteen Pokemon that I've used and haven't submitted votes for, so I will probably work on those in the next couple of days. I'll also try to play through the game a couple more times with a few of the less-appealing Pokemon.
 
well, i live in brazil, so i will get this game maybe only in 2013, but this is what i was planning:

serperior(coil + leaf blade + aqua tail + iron tail/something else)
lucario
electivire(i can "import" an electirizer from my white 1, and i will hunt for shards a lot)
starmie
gliscor(i haven't seen anyone even talk about it. STAB acrobatics and earthquake, c'mon)
scrafty

however, if electivire is still bad, i will switch it out for magnezone, and then take out lucario, so i don't repeat types. can anyone suggest me a good special or mixed attacker if that's the case?
 
well, i live in brazil, so i will get this game maybe only in 2013, but this is what i was planning:

serperior(coil + leaf blade + aqua tail + iron tail/something else)
lucario
electivire(i can "import" an electirizer from my white 1, and i will hunt for shards a lot)
starmie
gliscor(i haven't seen anyone even talk about it. STAB acrobatics and earthquake, c'mon)
scrafty

however, if electivire is still bad, i will switch it out for magnezone, and then take out lucario, so i don't repeat types. can anyone suggest me a good special or mixed attacker if that's the case?

I'm not sure that for the purposes of this thread that importing an evolution item from another game early would be allowed; I'd imagine you'd have to find it ingame. You can still get an Electrizer in the Plasma Frigate. I believe you get access to it between the 7th and 8th gyms? I forget specifically when, but I know it's in the B1 floor. In Black 2 you get a Magmarizer instead to those looking to review Magmar.

Earthquake is a postgame TM, so Gliscor will have to do with STAB Bulldoze. But I do agree that Gliscor needs some more discussion in general on this thread.
 
sorry for the import thing, it's just that when Stellar(i think it was him) reviewed elekid, he completely disconsiderated(i think the spelling is wrong) electivire, saying something on the lines of "you get electirizer at the plasma frigate,so electivire is out of discussion". i'm just opening a possibility for us to discuss if electivire would do any good in-game, or if magnezone is the best electric type hands down.
also, i got one of my team members is wrong, i put scrafty, but i was thinking of using the hidden hollow route 5 minccino(bianca takes you there it seems, so i believe it shoudn't be disconsiderated)

edit: if i do take out electivire and lucario, i could put scrafty there, though. but i do need another special or mixed attacker, to balance the team around.
 
Gliscor is Low tier for me, and that's being generous. Gligar comes late (Route 11 is like just before 7th gym), and you need Waterfall to evolve him, which you get right before Victory Road.
 
i could import too, but as we are not considering it... you've got a good point there. i THINK gligar can hold its own, as it has 105 base defense, but i don't know. you could just train it, and, obviously, not use it against marlon. i mean, starmie is good, and you get staryu even farther than gligar. maybe slap an eviolite onto it, making it even bulkier. i think you should at least put it in mid tier, but i'm just speculating, as i have never played the game.
any better flying type?
 
Finished my second run! Here's what I've got:

Snivy: Ew. Horrible coverage (unless you do some serious shard hunting), average stats, and poor match ups against most of the Elite Four and Gym Leaders. Coil is a neat move I suppose, but it's not enough to save Snivy from mediocrity, especially since using it means you need to give up using superior pokemon in Tepig and Oshawott. Low

Rattata: Maybe it's because mine was in the top percentage (Adamant Nature with 30 IV Attack), but Rattata was actually decent. It evolves early, has a nice early STAB in Hyper Fang, and learns most of its best moves through level up or TM. As in most games, it began to fade of later, but never so much that I actually felt the need to drop it from the team. Super Fang is awesome too, if your team has trouble with a specific pokemon. It's biggest problem was its ho-hum usefulness against Gyms because of its Normal typing. In a nutshell, Rattata won't let you down as long as all you're expecting is a serviceable Normal type. Mid

Klink: To be clear, Klingklang was good once you finally got it. Automatize + Gear Grind is really all he needs to thrash his way through the Elite Four with the obvious exception of Marshall and Shauntal's Chandelure. That's nice and all, but in order to get to that point you need to baby the weak Klink until level 38, then put up with the mediocre Klang for another 11 levels. This would be tolerable if Automatize didn't come at level 52 for Klang and level 54 for his evolved counterpart. If you're not over leveling, that means you'll only be able to use Klingklang to his full potential against the Elite Four and perhaps Victory Road. Throw in his uselessness against most Gyms he's available for and it just wasn't worth it. Low

Banette: Banette was kind of a mixed bag. On one hand, it's very strong. On the other it's both frail and slow. Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak lessened this problem somewhat (if you catch one at level 32, in the Strange House, it will already have the latter and be 2 levels away from the former), but didn't hit quite hard enough for reliable KOs. Banette's other problem was its horrible move pool. No good TMs besides Shadow Claw, and no coverage moves at all. Even so, Banette was fast enough to outspeed a few things and OHKO with Shadow Claw and could usually take one hit if it couldn't and finish his opponent off with Shadow Sneak. Mid

Koffing: Koffing really surprised me. I though it was going to be much worse than it was. It comes at level 12, which is a bit low, and doesn't have any good moves. Luckily, you get Venoshock from Beating Roxie, making him much more viable right away. Combined with his high Defense, he can easily tear through the early game with just Poison Gas and Venoshock. Right before he evolves he also gets Sludge Bomb, and can learn useful TMs like Thunderbolt, but those come too late to be of much use. He also boasts great defensive typing when paired with Levitate, and can use this to his advantage against Clay, Burgh, and Marshall. Overall, Weezing ended up being a solid member of the team, although his poor STAB and lack of coverage until late game was annoying. Mid

Theory Vote
I'd bet that we can all agree Umbreon is Bottom. It has a horrible movepool and horrible offensive stats. Foul Play was a huge boost for it, but that means you need to grind for Shards and you're still stuck with the problem of no coverage moves. It just doesn't offer anything over other Dark types besides bulk, but no one likes Walling things to death for an in-game run. Use your Eevee for something else.
 
...Zweilous comes at a reasonable level 49, meaning it's just 5 levels away from Hyderigon, one of the best pokemon in the game...

Zweilous evoles into Hydreigon at level 64 rather than 54 as you suggest here. I think High Tier is slightly optimistic as it does come late even if it is useful from the off. But if your a Hydreigon by the E4 and Champion, unless your playing under challenge mode, your over-levelled and going to curbstomp them in any case.
 
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