Um, did you mean 15 levels away? Zweilous evolves at level 64, not 54.
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BW2 In-Game Tier List Discussion [Updated 7/24]
- Thread starter Stellar
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Um, did you mean 15 levels away? Zweilous evolves at level 64, not 54.
yah yah, no love for gligar XD. any thoughts on sneasel,anyone?
Crap you're right. I'll delete my vote :P I just hacked it in on Victory road because I was having trouble catching it and was sure it evolved at 54. My bad everyone.
You get Staryu earlier actually. And can evolve it instantly. Strange comparison though :P Eviolite is not a bad idea, sure, but you're losing out on free Lucky Egg exp that way.
As for a better flying type, White players get Braviary, for everyone else there's Sigilyph.
you don't really need to eviolite staryu because his ideal moveset (surf/psychic/boltbeam) are all tm-based, in fact its much more viable to just evolve him straight away because he can start destroying things with surf, psychic and the more ballsy version of boltbeam (thunder/blizzard). no ice beam before drayden is unfortunate but blizzard should suffice.
Golurk: Low. You get it two blocks before the apocalypse, it has bad defenses, Iron Fist isn't enough to patch up the relatively measly BP of the punches, it suffers a lot against Shauntal and Grismley and good luck surviving random Psychics from Caitlin and actually faiting FightingE4's (Ringo? Dargo? ...Burgh?) pokémon.
Now, I have to admit using one as a Fly slave is totally awesome.
Heracross: Eh, competent, I guess. I can't say much because I got one only before facing Drayden, even though there are some in Lostlorn Forest. Being able to abuse Facade+Guts is nice, and Close Combat - Megahorn - Night Slash - Rock Slide, needless to say, kills a lot of shit everywhere. It's a problem against Team Plasma, with only Rock Slide and Facade for the hordes of Poison-type pokémon. If I hadn't dragged Lucario on for so long nor boxed it for Mienshao later, I'd be more enthusiastic voicing my opinion on Hera. But from Drayden to Route 23, I'd say Heracross deserves at least Mid.
Starmie: I am never using one again lol. 100 base Attack with no set-up moves, mediocre bulk and weakness to 2 E4 members and a lot of Plasma pokémon means it's even more mediocre than Flygon in OU. Low as sin. Seriously, it couldn't even OHKO Shauntal's Chandelure and Golurk with Surf (~70-74% damage). Hell, maybe Chandelure's Fire Blast would do more damage on it...
Now, I have to admit using one as a Fly slave is totally awesome.
Heracross: Eh, competent, I guess. I can't say much because I got one only before facing Drayden, even though there are some in Lostlorn Forest. Being able to abuse Facade+Guts is nice, and Close Combat - Megahorn - Night Slash - Rock Slide, needless to say, kills a lot of shit everywhere. It's a problem against Team Plasma, with only Rock Slide and Facade for the hordes of Poison-type pokémon. If I hadn't dragged Lucario on for so long nor boxed it for Mienshao later, I'd be more enthusiastic voicing my opinion on Hera. But from Drayden to Route 23, I'd say Heracross deserves at least Mid.
Starmie: I am never using one again lol. 100 base Attack with no set-up moves, mediocre bulk and weakness to 2 E4 members and a lot of Plasma pokémon means it's even more mediocre than Flygon in OU. Low as sin. Seriously, it couldn't even OHKO Shauntal's Chandelure and Golurk with Surf (~70-74% damage). Hell, maybe Chandelure's Fire Blast would do more damage on it...
It's the first time that I see Starmie and Heracross so low ... I didn't play them (I'm starting a new run, but with holydays coming, I will have not the time to finish it)
Well, MWL did state that he only caught it before Drayden, and he stated that it was at least mid, meaning that there is the potential for high (which i definitely think it exists)
I'm not sure how Starmie can be /that/ bad though. Considering you can curbstomp the last 2 gyms with Blizzard/Thunder, its not really that bad. and plasma is not even that hard rofl because the only thing it really loses to are scraggy (but not much really curbstomps it outside of fighting types) and rattata (super rare). koffing, trubbish and sandile pretty much fold very quickly against starmie...
I'm not sure how Starmie can be /that/ bad though. Considering you can curbstomp the last 2 gyms with Blizzard/Thunder, its not really that bad. and plasma is not even that hard rofl because the only thing it really loses to are scraggy (but not much really curbstomps it outside of fighting types) and rattata (super rare). koffing, trubbish and sandile pretty much fold very quickly against starmie...
@TM13
We meant Eviolite Gligar.
What what? You have Bulldoze or Dig for poison types. The only thing that doesn't work on are Golbats (who die to rock slide) and Koffings (who can be killed by pretty much anything). There is not a single pokemon on Plasma Frigate who can take a hit from Heracross. Including the sage and Corless.
And for Starmie, I'm guessing you were 20 levels below that Golurk or something? Otherwise you're just pulling numbers out of your ass, because I never saw anything take a SE STAB hit from an equal level Starmie and survive. Not once.
We meant Eviolite Gligar.
What what? You have Bulldoze or Dig for poison types. The only thing that doesn't work on are Golbats (who die to rock slide) and Koffings (who can be killed by pretty much anything). There is not a single pokemon on Plasma Frigate who can take a hit from Heracross. Including the sage and Corless.
And for Starmie, I'm guessing you were 20 levels below that Golurk or something? Otherwise you're just pulling numbers out of your ass, because I never saw anything take a SE STAB hit from an equal level Starmie and survive. Not once.
@Manveru: I was talking about Heracross, lol
I was referring to this. I suck at multi quoting :X
oic lol
but Gligar is still not bad, he does pretty decently against the Opelucid Gym because everything in there is physical (save for Flygon's Earth Power which does 0 damage onto it). Not that bad considering there's practically nothing else to dump Eviolite onto at that point.
Yeah but no Lucky Egg = missing out of ton of exp, not to mention that holding an item makes Acrobatics suck. Also in BW2 Gligar learns Swords Dance at 50, which means you won't have that before Drayden unless you overlevel him or play Challenge Mode and grind. His offensive options are limited to 80 BP tops at that point (and no STAB, Bulldoze has STAB but is 60 BP and comes off Gligar's rather low Atk stat, for this point of the game at least), which is quite low. The exceptions are Dig, which needs a charge turn and because of that is inferior to Bulldoze imo, and Sky Uppercut which is 85 BP but has shaky accuracy.
yah, yah, got it. if i start with tepig, though, there's no need for a flying type. how about skorupi then? i've always wanted to have a drapion. also, taking gligar out will open a opportunity for a ground type. no excadrill for me though, as i already own one in white 1(i want to use only different pokes). krookodile and flygon seem to be the best choices. what do you guys think?
nothing against your post, but, seriously, who would even bother catching it? even novice players that don't know it's so terrible problably won't, 'cause they're problably gonna use pokes from the start to the mid of the game. not even its looks are cool. then again, i'm not criticizing(is this the right spelling?) you, just stating it.
edit: i have read only a few thoughts on lillipup. i mean, i remember i did a nuzlocke run in my white once, and that lillipup stayed with me from route 1 to the end(good ol' Taylor).i'd never think stoutland would last that much. i beat most of ghetsis team with it. heck, i almost defeated hydreigon with stab return.he died honorably to a super effective focus blast.i even placed him at a different box, separated from my other pokemon. i know it's not gonna OHKO everything, but the fact that it is bulky, has good attack and usable speed just appeals to me. at least our little doggie has some nice coverage. so, what do you guys think? is it any good?
You get Lucky Egg in Celestial Tower. Of course, it still weakens Acrobatics. However, I can say that though I've never used Gliscor, a wild one did nearly sweep my team (many levels above it) when I tried to catch it. Also any half-decent flying type is welcome in this game. And Dig isn't too bad, it did quite well on my Sandile, at least in singles. Turns go past quickly and I barely noticed the charge turn.
Oh yeah. Bulldoze. I have a mental block for that move. Good point, Hera isn't mediocre against Team Plasma then.
Lv.56 Starmie vs. lv.56 Golurk and lv.58 Chandelure, in two different battles (I LOST the first one because of the shitty damage on Chandelure lol); against both pokémon, the HP bar got really small but didn't become red, so I believe the damage was anything between 70% and 74%.
And no, I have no idea how Starmie was so anemic. Seriously.
what exactly was your starmie's nature
i honestly don't think starmie is seriously that terrible
i honestly don't think starmie is seriously that terrible
...
Bold Nature, IVs 25/10/23/00/27/01
Yeah, take anything I said about Starmie with a couple grains of salt. I'd not complain the slighest if if went to Mid.
On a side note, my Volcarona has 6 SAtk; my Metagross, 3 Atk; and my Crawdaunt, 8 Atk/9 SAtk. I hate my game
Bold Nature, IVs 25/10/23/00/27/01
Yeah, take anything I said about Starmie with a couple grains of salt. I'd not complain the slighest if if went to Mid.
On a side note, my Volcarona has 6 SAtk; my Metagross, 3 Atk; and my Crawdaunt, 8 Atk/9 SAtk. I hate my game
rofl 0 sp atk
that's some ridiculously fail luck
@Grape: it lags quite badly after burgh, and stab acrobatics comes at lv33 which is pretty decent i guess but having to rely on wing attack for stab before that is quite bad considering golbat only has 80 atk. you do get fly though which helps a bit
So I feel like giving the remaining Pokemon theoryvotes since my current computer is too weak to play BW2 without significant lag. (ignoring ones I've already played with)
I'll finish this a bit later.
I'll finish this a bit later.
Code:
[LIST]
[*]Absol: Hits pretty hard, gets Night Slash pretty quickly iirc, gets Superpower by tutor, Swords Dance when you catch it, and Psycho Cut eventually. A bit frail, though. [B]Mid[/B] seems good.
[*]Audino: Although I can't say with sureness that it's bad (I had fun with Dunsparce after all), I'll say that it's bad. It has consistent STAB from the second you get it, but it's not the most... optimal... candidate for a teammate considering that its Attack is originally OK but gets worse with time. Has Regenerator, which is cool. [B]Low[/B].
[*]Banette: It has 115 base Attack and its best STAB once you get it (you should have gotten the Shadow Claw TM in Celestial Tower) but outside of that it's kind of meh. It does have a lot of priority moves and Will-o-Wisp, I guess. It's slow, frail, and not overwhelmingly amazing from what I'd assume. [B]Low[/B].
[*]Basculin: The 31 IV trade Basculin from last game is gone so you're stuck with this one. It comes underleveled after you get Surf, so have fun with that, I guess. It has nice STAB with Adaptability, which gives it a neat priority move and a strong STAB. Outside of that, though, it's... not very interesting and rather frail. [B]Low[/B].
[*]Bouffalant: It comes in the last seconds of the game, but does come at the fantastically high level of 56, which is just a few Proteins away from being able to tear apart good portions of the game, I'd assume. You're not using this against anything but the Elite Four, but it seems that it wouldn't do terribly against them. Still, [B]Low[/B] for the incredibly late arrival.
[*]Braviary: I've heard good things about this mon. It seems pretty ok, actually, given that it start out with a bunch of nice moves and continues to get them throughout the game. It starts with Hone Claws and Aerial Ace (and can be taught Return and, if you want, Rock Smash instantly). Later, it can be taught a variety of weird TMs to improve its coverage (Shadow Claw and Rock Slide in particular) and also gets Fly for strong Flying-type STAB; in the lategame, it gets Superpower to finally complete its moveset and get Roost if you want it. Seems genuinely okay and held back by, if anything, its only OK speed. Probably [B]High[/B], to be honest (if I thought Unfezant was good enough for Mid, this thing should be higher).
[*]Buizel: It's kind of like Basculin++; catch it at a high enough level and you get a pretty nice STAB in Aqua Tail to go with it. It can be tutored Ice Punch and evolved instantly after that if you want; Dig and Return can also be stuck on it for more coverage. Pity that Bulk Up wasn't moved to its level-up, though. Eh well. Probably [B]Mid[/B].
[*]Buneary: I remember Stellar saying that this thing was pretty OK on IRC; it has nice coverage, at least. Probably [B]Mid[/B] given its early STAB, Jump Kick, and a bunch of other random moves it can stick somewhere.
[*]Castform: I'd imagine a Rain Dance set is optimal with Weather Ball / Scald or Hydro Pump / Thunder / Rain Dance. Still, I can't see this thing being... overly good.[B] Low[/B].
[*]Clefairy
[*]Combee
[*]Cottonee
[*]Cubchoo: It comes right before Skyla and has a good chance to come 1 level from Icicle Crash and evolution, which actually seems pretty ok. Not the strongest mon, but it has passable bulk. Upon evolution, it can be Heart Scaled Superpower and Aqua Jet; you should have the Rock Slide and Dig TMs at this point if you want to teach it those moves. Doesn't seem too bad given that it has a reliable STAB almost from the start. Does great against the next two gyms, too, and I'd imagine it does well against some of Iris' mons. [B]Mid[/B].
[*]Deerling: It doesn't seem that bad; I'm not sure when you'd get optimally, though. Getting it before Clay seems ok (it can get a lot of experience) but getting it on Route 7 seems to be useful given that it's one level from evolution. Anyway, it's pretty set moveset wise once you get it; although it's waiting for Horn Leech, it starts with Jump Kick / Take Down / Leech Seed / Faint Attack if you get it at the right level, which is a decent moveset. Return is good eventually and Horn Leech / Nature Power come a bit later on. [B]Mid[/B].
[*]Delibird: Do I have to explain why this is [B]Bottom[/B]? Awful stats, typing, STABs... Hustle is pretty bad when you don't have Aerial Ace at least (I'm aware that it can be strong, though). You get it late and you literally have to tutor it moves. Its greatest occupation is as an entertaining Fly slave; it's probably outclassed by Golurk in that regard, though.
[*]Ditto: See above; it is only as good as its opponents and, frankly, they all suck. Its low HP doesn't help when you can't EV train.
[*]Drifblim: I've heard that it's kind of underwhelming; although you get Acrobatics, Will-o-Wisp, and Shadow Ball when you get it, it doesn't get much else, from what I see. Still, you get Minimize by tutor (which is pretty cool) and eventually Baton Pass, meaning you can cheese a lot of major fights by just getting up to +6 on something stupid and then passing to something more threatening. It levels up slow as fuck due to the fact that it's in Fluctuating. [B]Mid[/B]'d be my guess.
[*]Druddigon: Where do you find this ?_?
[*]Dunsparce
[*]Dwebble: It's not the strongest but it gets a bunch of neat setup moves, attacks with decent power, and is a pretty good mon to cheese most battles once it gets Shell Smash. [B]Mid[/B].
[*]Elekid
[*]Elgyem: It's strong, but it's slow as all hell and has little but Psychic-type attacks for a bit. [B]Low[/B] just because everything will outspeed it, meaning it's always forced to take a hit.
[*]Emolga: [B]Bottom[/B]; trade it for the Gigalith instead. It has Acrobatics but nothing else; this runs off of shitty base 75 attacking stats. Its typing is cool but it's a weak mon.
[*]Espeon: It seems strong. It's (unfortunately) unlikely to get all the way up to max happiness before level 21, meaning that it doesn't get STAB moves until after Clay, which is pretty awkward. Still, I'd assume that it becomes pretty good once that happens (hell, you might as well keep it an Eevee for the sake of STAB Adaptability Return). Probably [B]High[/B] given its really good sweeper stats.
[*]Ferroseed: I think this is pretty much the only Pokemon (oh, and Steelix) that can actually hold a power item / Macho Brace and use it for all of its effects. Gyro Ball is pretty strong STAB (I remember that it was about as strong as max invested Aggron Iron Head at max power, which is pretty scary) and Macho Brace will make Ferroseed gain EVs faster, obviously. It's nigh unkillable and one of the few Pokemon that can legitimately take on Iris' Haxorus. It's slow as fuck, though, and for that it should be [B]Mid[/B].
[*]Foongus: It doesn't get a single decent Poison-type move, meaning it's stuck with Giga Drain for the whole game. Its bulk is good and its attacking stats are decent fully evolved, but it's a pretty crappy mon with nothing but Synthesis, Giga Drain, Toxic, and Growth to its name.
[*]Frillish
[*]Gligar: It's screwed out of evolution until you get to Victory Road, which is unfortunate. It's an OK mon until then, I guess. Starts with STAB (Dig) and gets Swords Dance later. Will wall Drayden and win eventually. [B]Mid[/B].
[*]Golurk: It's decent but not amazing, I'd assume. Comes late but seems OK; comes with EQ, Shadow Punch is tutorable, Drain Punch is tutorable if you have the shards, and Fly goes in the last slot for coverage. Slow but strong; does well against Caitlin and Marshal. [B]Low[/B].
[*]Gothita
[*]Grimer
[*]Heracross
[*]Jolteon
[*]Karrablast
[*]Klink
[*]Koffing
[*]Lapras
[*]Litwick
[*]Lunatone
[*]Magby
[*]Maractus
[*]Metang
[*]Mienfoo
[*]Minccino
[*]Nosepass
[*]Numel
[*]Onix
[*]Panpour
[*]Pansage
[*]Pansear
[*]Patrat
[*]Pawniard
[*]Pelipper
[*]Pidove
[*]Piloswine
[*]Pinsir
[*]Purrloin
[*]Rattata
[*]Remoraid
[*]Roggenrola
[*]Rufflet
[*]Sandshrew
[*]Sawk
[*]Seel
[*]Seviper
[*]Shelmet
[*]Skarmory
[*]Skitty
[*]Skorupi
[*]Sneasel
[*]Solosis
[*]Solrock
[*]Spheal
[*]Spoink
[*]Staryu
[*]Sunkern
[*]Swablu
[*]Tangela
[*]Throh
[*]Timburr
[*]Trubbish
[*]Tynamo
[*]Umbreon
[*]Vanillish
[*]Vaporeon
[*]Venipede
[*]Vullaby
[*]Woobat
[*]Yamask
[*]Zangoose
[*]Zebstrika
[*]Zubat
[*]Zweilous
[/LIST]Deerling: I actually used this for a while. It's kind of average tbh (heck I found Servine to be better because it just happened to learn Coil around that part of the game) and does absolutely nothing against Clay because lack of Grass moves. Sucks against Skyla and is kind of meh against Drayden, but awesome against Marlon. Personally, I ended up sticking with Servine, although its still a pretty useful Grass type. Mid I guess because it does have a pretty decent lategame movepool.
Druddigon: It's in Victory Road (but the max you can get it at is L50... and you have to make it relearn Dragon Claw because it already learnt DragonFail Tail >.<), its terrible, nothing over Haxorus, heck I feel Zweilous is better >.> Bottom
Frillish: Slow and mediocre. It gets Will-o-wisp... and that's pretty much the only thing separating it from -insert generic water here- (shadow ball is pretty bad) Low
Gothita: lol, good bulk, mediocre offense. And slow. Low, because it doesn't do much against plasma
Koffing: DOGARS DOGARS but on a serious note, it has a bitching base 95 defense and is an excellent physical tank. Having a -somewhat- reliable status move in Poison Gas makes it useful early on (residual damage is never a bad thing), and having Venoshock makes it pretty useful in terms of offense. After Burgh though it starts slowing down, but being able to troll Clay is good. If you want to, it's a good last resort during the E4 since Memento can lower offenses (while at the cost of killing itself, but its not like there'll be any point keeping Weezing alive if its going to die). Mid, because it's pretty unique in terms of utility imo (its a theory vote though)
Piloswine: Gonna join the 'awesome pokemon' bandwagon here. Piloswine comes at a great enough level, learning its best stab in a few levels and is just a Heart Scale away from evolution. Mamoswine's a great Pokemon to pick up lategame with amazing Attack and the ability to put on the hurt onto Iris. High, comes a bit late but requires minimal amount of support to get on track.
Sawk: Sadly, for what's arguably the god of BW1, Sawk has taken a very massive fall from grace in BW2. It's often overlooked in competitive matches because it has offenses that are similar to Heracross but doesn't have Bug STAB (nor Megahorn). Perhaps Heracross got annoyed at how Sawk is the best Pokemon in the game in BW1 and bribed Game Freak to put it in into BW2, and make it come before the 4th Gym while Sawk comes literally at the end of the game. To perhaps put salt on the wound, Heracross happens to be exclusive to the game that Sawk is more common in. Sawk's only real use is to be endgame filler if the player somehow does NOT use Heracross. Low, and only because Sawk has Sturdy rofl
Sunkern: ...dude. It's Sunkern, you know, the dude with only base 30s across the board? The guy with the lowest BST in the entire game? Sunkern as expected is terrible, with a horribly small TM movepool and a mono-grass level up movepool. Sunkern also can't evolve until after leaving Castelia, by which time you honestly should have ditched it. I recommend that we have a tier at the very bottom of the tierlist called "Sunkern Tier", but until then it should be Bottom.
Druddigon: It's in Victory Road (but the max you can get it at is L50... and you have to make it relearn Dragon Claw because it already learnt Dragon
Frillish: Slow and mediocre. It gets Will-o-wisp... and that's pretty much the only thing separating it from -insert generic water here- (shadow ball is pretty bad) Low
Gothita: lol, good bulk, mediocre offense. And slow. Low, because it doesn't do much against plasma
Koffing: DOGARS DOGARS but on a serious note, it has a bitching base 95 defense and is an excellent physical tank. Having a -somewhat- reliable status move in Poison Gas makes it useful early on (residual damage is never a bad thing), and having Venoshock makes it pretty useful in terms of offense. After Burgh though it starts slowing down, but being able to troll Clay is good. If you want to, it's a good last resort during the E4 since Memento can lower offenses (while at the cost of killing itself, but its not like there'll be any point keeping Weezing alive if its going to die). Mid, because it's pretty unique in terms of utility imo (its a theory vote though)
Piloswine: Gonna join the 'awesome pokemon' bandwagon here. Piloswine comes at a great enough level, learning its best stab in a few levels and is just a Heart Scale away from evolution. Mamoswine's a great Pokemon to pick up lategame with amazing Attack and the ability to put on the hurt onto Iris. High, comes a bit late but requires minimal amount of support to get on track.
Sawk: Sadly, for what's arguably the god of BW1, Sawk has taken a very massive fall from grace in BW2. It's often overlooked in competitive matches because it has offenses that are similar to Heracross but doesn't have Bug STAB (nor Megahorn). Perhaps Heracross got annoyed at how Sawk is the best Pokemon in the game in BW1 and bribed Game Freak to put it in into BW2, and make it come before the 4th Gym while Sawk comes literally at the end of the game. To perhaps put salt on the wound, Heracross happens to be exclusive to the game that Sawk is more common in. Sawk's only real use is to be endgame filler if the player somehow does NOT use Heracross. Low, and only because Sawk has Sturdy rofl
Sunkern: ...dude. It's Sunkern, you know, the dude with only base 30s across the board? The guy with the lowest BST in the entire game? Sunkern as expected is terrible, with a horribly small TM movepool and a mono-grass level up movepool. Sunkern also can't evolve until after leaving Castelia, by which time you honestly should have ditched it. I recommend that we have a tier at the very bottom of the tierlist called "Sunkern Tier", but until then it should be Bottom.
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