Californication

peng

hivemind leader
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Californication


Introduction:
Even since the start of 4th Gen, weather has been a playstyle I've loved to use. However, after the Drizzle + Swift Swim complex ban, I needed to find a new weather to abuse. Non-Swift Swim Drizzle teams are fun to use, but now it is well prepared for by pretty much everyone, with like 50% of teams now packing SpD Jirachi, Rotom-W, and Ferrothorn which Rain has a really hard time breaking. Sand is similar; people are incredibly well prepared for it, as well as it just being an incredibly predictable playstyle. It was at this point that I turned to Sun. In 4th Gen, I'd always considered Sunny Day teams to be incredibly gimmicky, as there weren't really many good abusers of it and it was shut down pretty easily. However, thanks to some new Dream World abilities, BW Sun is a force to be reckoned with, and definitely isn't prepared for as much as Rain and Sun are.

When I started teambuilding, 2 Pokemon were already set in stone. The fist was obviously Ninetales, since no Sun team is really complete without it. The second was Venusaur, as thanks to its Chlorophyll DW ability and the new Growth mechanics, its a really powerful mixed Sun sweeper. The next 2 Pokemon were Volcarona and Claydol. Volcarona was a pokemon I was really underwhelmed with when I first started playing BW, as although it has a prefect stat distribution for a Special Sweeper, as well as excellent neutral coverage with its STABs, it just never seemed to work. However, I was willing to give it a second chance in a sun team, where its Water-weakness is decreased to give it more chances to set-up, and its Fire STAB becomes even more powerful. Claydol was introduced as a Stealth Rock user and for Rapid Spin support, as running Volcarona without a spinner is pretty dumb. Also, due to Levitate and Ground-typing, its acts as a pretty efficient counter to common Sand sweepers, who I knew would pose problematic to my team. Next added to the team was Latias, who was there as a bulky Water-resist, Wish-user and phazer. It also acted as another check to Reuniclus if it got up too many Calm Minds, because I could just Roar it out and hopefully deal with it later before it can set-up again. The last member of the team was Sawsbuck, who I was pretty skeptical about, since I'm sure that when most of us saw his stat spread and movepool we thought he was going to be terrible. How wrong I was. Sawsbuck is like Venusaur V2, and was pretty useful on the team, because pretty much nothing can counter Sawsbuck, and then also counter Venusaur straight away afterwards. The first version of my team was finished.

However, the team really didn't work as I had hoped. The problem was that Tyranitar and Politoed could just keep switching out and in to get their own respective weathers up over the Sun, which made sweeping really difficult. For this reason, I replaced Latias with a Banded Dugtrio, who can trap and finish off both Tyranitar and Politoed after some residual damage. Also, the lack of a dragon-type resist really hurt, since it meant Latios could come in and was pretty much guaranteed a kill with Draco Meteor. I decided to replace Claydol with Forretress, who could also set up Stealth Rocks, Rapid Spin, but also had the added bonus of being able to set-up Spikes, which prove invaluable for wearing down Politoed and Tyranitar to Dugtrio's Earthquake's KO range.

This introduction is already really, really long, so without further ado, here is Californication:

Meet the Team:

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

Although many people would expect Ninetales to be leading this team often, its actually Forretress who starts the battle off for me. The reason for this is that the current metagame is pretty much dominated by weather; very few teams don't have a Tyranitar or Politoed. Since Ninetales sits at 100 Base Speed, compared to Politoed's 70 and Tyranitar's 61, Ninetales will be unable to get up Sun against them from the start of the battle because they both underspeed her. Having a Pokemon with a 4x Fire weakness may also seem strange on a Sunny Day team, but most of the time, Forretress won't be surviving Fire-type attacks whether sun is up or not, so it really doesn't make much or a difference.

Forretress serves as the team's entry hazard user, setting up Stealth Rock and Spikes to help my offensive core pull off a sweep. Although Forretress has spent a lot of time on the bench in BW, often ditched in favour of more specially-bulky Ferrothorn, he earned a place in this team because of one of the few advantages he has over his Unova look-a-like; Rapid Spin. Spin support is absolutely vital to the smooth functioning of this team, as Ninetales and Volcarona are 2x and 4x Rock weak respectively. Therefore, with Stealth Rock up, it makes it much more difficult for me to maintain the Sun, as it limits the number of times Ninetales can switch in, and it also makes it much harder for me to pull off a sweep, since one of my sweepers is guaranteed to be starting at 50% HP.

Forretress also some nice resistances to the team. The most obvious is the Dragon resistance, and because of the huge Defense investment and Relaxed nature, Forretress can take on the likes of Choice Scarf Garchomp locked into Outrage and Choice Band Dragonite locked into ExtremeSpeed or Outrage. With sun up, Forretress can also set-up on Water-type Physical attackers such as Azumarril and Sharpedo.
---


Ninetales @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Ninetales is obviously a staple for OU Sun teams. This set focuses mainly on bulk, as Ninetales needs to stay around in the battle for as long as possible in order to win the weather war. Ninetales draws the short straw among weather starters, as it is weak to both Tyranitar's Stone Edge and Politoed's Scald/Hydro Pump, meaning it is incredibly difficult for Ninetales to switch in to activate Drought.

Ninetales is a pretty terrible Pokemon, with shitty defensive typing and a crappy support movepool, so this moveset is really just to be as annoying as possible to Sandstorm team in particular. Substiute + Will-O-Wisp is a really nice combination, as it allows me to scout their best switch-in, which is normally Tyranitar, or Garchomp, and get off a Will-O-Wisp to cripple them, as long as the Garchomp doesn't have substitute itself. Hidden Power [Fighting] is mainly just for coverage, particularly against Tyranitar, since as long as Sandstorm isn't up, it can do a load of damage even with any Special Attack investment. Similarly, Flamethrower in the sun is powerful enough to warrant the lack of Special Attack investment. With a Timid nature and 164 Speed EVs, Ninetales hits 303 Speed, which is enough to outspeed Jolly Excadrill by 1 point, making a Ninetales a reliable revenge-killer to it.
---


Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Sucker Punch

Dugtrio is so damn good, I don't know why nobody seems to use it. His main objective on this team is to remove opposing weather inducers such as Politoed and Tyranitar with Banded Earthquakes. Obviously, this isn't all this guy can do. With an excellent 120 Base Speed, Dugtrio can easily outspeed and KO Terrakion and Infernape with Earthquake; Tornadus and Thundurus with Stone Edge; and Virizion and Breloom with Aerial Ace. Here are some other calcs:

Earthquake vs 252 HP Neutral Nature Politoed - 58.1% - 68.8% (2HKO)
Earthquake vs 252 HP Neutral Nature Tyranitar - 80.7% - 95.5% (OHKO with SR + 1 layer of Spikes)
Sucker Punch vs 4HP Neutral Nature Latios - 75.5% - 89.4% (OHKO after 2x SR)

Dugtrio's massive priority weakness is pretty well covered by the rest of the team, with Aqua Jet resisted by Venusaur and Sawsbuck, which will be doing terrible damage in Sun; Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave resisted by Volcarona and Venusaur; and both Bullet Punch and Ice Shard resisted by Ninetales and Forretress.

Although the EV spread may seem strange at first, since Dugtrio has pitiful defences even with the 40 Def EVs invested, there isn't really much point in using 252 Speed, since he doesn't need to outspeed anything between the 115 Base Speed and 120 Base Speed marks. 216 Speed with a Jolly Nature gives Dugtrio enough speed to therefore outspeed +Spe nature Base 115s, with the extra 40 EVs in defense to at least give it a chance at surviving some of the weaker physical priority attacks.
---


Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Rock]

Volcarona acts as this team's Special powerhouse, and with a couple of Quiver Dance's under its belt it can cruise through teams with ease late-game. With Rapid Spin support on the team, Volcarona gets many opportunities to switch in and set-up Quiver Dances, especially with the sun weakening Water-type attacks.

The rest of the team is pretty much geared towards helping Volcarona sweep. Forretress' Rapid Spin means Volcarona doesn't get wrecked by Stealth Rock and Spikes when it switches in, meaning it has more opportunities to set up and doesn't get revenge-killed as easily. Dugtrio is also a greta teammate, as it can take out stuff like non-scarf Terrakion who resists all the attacks on this Volcarona's moveset.

I chose to a more Offensive EV spread on Volcarona because I simply can't afford to run a bulkier set. If I run ChestoRest or a 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe set then I just don't reach the speed I need to after a single Quiver Dance to take on the stuff that cause this team problems. Having tried out both of these sets while making this team, I found both of these sets got revenged far too easily by the likes of Tornadus, Specs Latios and Scarf Terrakion if Dugtrio had been unable to remove them before I started setting up. For this reason, I chose to use a simple 252/252 Offensive spread to maximise SpA and Speed and make it easier to pull off a sweep. After a single Quiver Dance, Volcarona can now outspeed non-scarfed Latios who is a pretty huge threat to this team.
---


Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorphyll
EVs: 110 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Horn Leech
- Nature Power

Since both Sawsbuck and Venusaur have very similar movesets in this team, they pair up very well, since for the most part they are walled by the same Pokemon. This means that once Sawsbuck gets taken out, it will be very difficult for them to stop Venusaur from sweeping, since its counters will already be weakened sufficiently that Venusaur can take them out after setting up a Growth.

The fancy EV spread allows Sawsbuck to outspeed +1 Base 110s in the Sunlight. This means that in the sun, Sawsbuck will outspeed Choice Scarf Latios and Choice Scarf Terrakion, 2 pretty big threats to this team. Max Atk with an Adamant nature is just to maximise damage output, and the leftover EVs are stuffed into HP to give Sawsbuck a little more bulk.

The moveset is pretty standard. Swords Dance boosts Sawsbuck's average attack so that it can acually do decent damage. Horn Leech is Sawsbuck's only good Physical Grass STAB, and also provides a form of recovery to make up for the Life Orb recoil. Frustration is also gets STAB, provides nice neutral coverage on stuff like Dragon-types, and is also infinitely cooler than Return. The last slot was a choice between Jump Kick and Nature Power, which becomes Earthquake on Wi-Fi and simulators. Nature Power was my choice, because Skarmory and Bronzong are definitely not threats defensively to this team, especially since the Sun exaggerates their Fire-weakness, whereas Heatran and Scarf Chandelure are pretty big threats.
---


Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chloropyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Growth
- Seed Bomb
- Frustration
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Venusaur is probably the guy on the team who ends up sweeping most often. After Sawsbuck has been taken out, the opponents team is often weak enough for Venusaur to switch in, set up a Growth and finish the job.

Again, the moveset is all standard stuff. The change in Growth mechanics means Venusaur is now a brilliant mixed sweeper in the sun, as it grants it the +2 Atk and +2 SpA, making a mixed set feasible even with Venusaur's sub-par Attack stat. Seed Bomb is the strongest physical Grass-type STAB attack available because Power Whip is illegal with Chlorophyll. Just like Sawsbuck, Frustration is on the set to provide some nice neutral coverage against the Dragon-types such as Latias, Latios, and Salamence, and I find that since Dugtrio or Sawsbuck should have already KOd Heatran and Chandelure before Venusaur comes in, I don't really find much of a need for Earthquake. Hidden Power [Fire] gets the boost from the sun and is pretty powerful enough to take care of Forretress, Skarmory and Ferrothorn even with very little investment. Lonely is the nature chosen because Venusaur already has resistance to a lot of the common physical priority attacks thanks to its great defensive typing, and if it had a -SpD nature, it would be much more difficult for Venusaur to switch-in on all the common OU special attackers such as Thundurus' Thunderbolt and Latios' -2 Draco Meteor.
---

Conclusion:
So that is the team. I hope you managed to read all of that, since it is pretty long for a RMT. I will probably write up a threat list in the next couple of hours and then just stick it onto the bottom of this when its done. Thank you for reading!
 

fatty

is a Tiering Contributor
NUPL Champion
Great team, probably one of the best attempts at Sun that I've seen. The only thing I can think of is maybe replacing Sucker Punch with Pursuit on Dugtrio. I've been using a Duggy team in 4th Gen, and Pursuit has been incredibly useful for trapping Mon's like Gengar who are expecting a Sucker Punch. I can only imagine how useful this will be in a Metagame filled with Specs Latios, allowing you to extremely limit it's lifespan. Just a suggestion, good luck!
 

peng

hivemind leader
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Breloom is actually a pretty big threat to the team, and is nearly guaranteed a KO because I have nothing that can take a Focus Punch, break the Substitute and then take another Focus Punch. I'd rather keep Aerial Ace just for insurance, as it gives me just one more way to deal with him.

Also, it allows Dugtrio to revenge-kill Virizion which is pretty helpful since it is faster than the rest of my team outside of sun, and due to its decent bulk can take unboosted attacks from Venusaur and Sawsbuck.
 
What counters do you have for a scarfed Fire type such as Heatran? I'm too lazy to do the calcs, but does Sawsbuck outspeed? And if so, what happens if a Scarfed Fire comes along (who doesn't mind Sucker Punch) after Sawsbuck is dead?
 

peng

hivemind leader
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Sawsuck is EVd to outspeed all +1 Base 110s in the Sun, which means it can outspeed all Scarfed Fire-types, as Infernape is the fastest Fire-type at Base 108.
 
i've been using a team similar to this for a while and the biggest threats that i have encountered are:

scarfed chandelure
scarfed rotom-h spamming overheat
any variant of heatran, especially sub + flame charge
teams that employ spreading paralysis (usually bulky dragonite or jirachi)


dugtrio is really nice to have to ensure you can trap + kill the opposing weather setter (i use wobbuffet myself), and this looks like a very well made team. good job
 

peng

hivemind leader
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Ninetales can take scarfed Overheats, Sawsbuck and Venusaur outspeed and can weak it down with Frustrations, and Dugtrio can Sucker Punch to do ≈ 35%.

I think I've only seen Rotom-H once whilst using this team and with a combination of its Stealth Rock weakness and neutral hits, it really wasn't too difficult to handle anyway.

Rotom-H really isn't common enough to be considered a top threat and I won't be changing my team around to help handle it better since it really isn't worth it.
 

peng

hivemind leader
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I have considered using Double Edge in the past, but the thing that worried my was how quickly the recoil would build up if I couldn't find an oppurtunity to Horn Leech to recover back the recoil damage.

I'll test it anyway, OHKOing Latios seems really nice as it is pretty tough for me to handle at the moment.
 
My lone worry for this team is that you don't seem to have much defensive support - as Forretress could be easily taken care of by, say, a Scarfed Chandelure, that only leaves you with Ninetales, to some extent, taking some special hits. If a Hydreigon or Specs Latios gets a free switch-in, your team will be hit very hard by their Draco Meteors. I would suggest switching Volcarona for Air Balloon Heatran, which resists Dragon, has a fantastic boosted STAB in the sun and can switch in on Fire attacks aimed at Venusaur or Sawsbuck.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Flame Charge
 
The original team looks amazing Penquin, I cannot point out anything wrong with it. My only concern is against other Sunny Day teams. Considering most other SD (Sunny Day) teams run Heatran on their teams w/ Air Ballon may be a thorn in your side. Only Dugtrio has EQ to hit Heatran, once that is gone, I can see Heatran running through this team for a short cut.

How to prevent this? Thought you never ask! Run HP Ground on your Volcarona instead of HP Rock, I know hitting dragons with unstabbed HP Rock or other Volcarona for the craic may seem groovy, but Heatran is still my main concern. Because Sawsbuck/Vensuaur can outpace other Volcanrona!

Or use a Farfetch'd!
 

peng

hivemind leader
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Power Whip and Giga Drain are unobtainable on Chlorphyll Venusaur since they are from a 4th Gen move tutor and 4th Gen TM respectively iirc.

Although Sleep Powder would be really nice on Venusaur, theres not really anything on the set that can be replaced without increasing the list of stuff that Venusaur gets walled by.

As for Heatran, it generally requires me to sac something to beat it. If it tries to grab a Flash Fire boost from Ninetales, Volcarona or Venusaur's Fire-type, I'm often more than willing to sacrifice that Pokemon to break its balloon so that it becomes fodder for Dugtrio. Although this isn't most efficient way of beating Heatran out there to say the least, it normally works out okay. However, as always I am open to suggestions and will test out Hidden Power [Ground].

Since Shadow Tag Chandelure hasn't been released yet, and this isn't a Dream World team, theres nothing stopping me from switching Forretress out and go into Ninetales against scarf variants. If they decide to predict and go for the Shadow Ball, sure Ninetales will take a load of damage from the hit, but then I can't just go into Sawsbuck on the next turn and nab a free Swords Dance.

I'm also gonna give that Heatran a test, as it gives me a Flash Fire Pokemon so that I have a safer switch-in against opposing, non-balloon Heatran so that I don't have to necessarily lose something to get Dugtrio in.
 
I've only not rated this team yet because I had no idea it was actually a sun one XD. That said, looks like it hasn't mattered because this is most certainly one of the best I've seen recently. As such, most of the things I suggest are just that - suggestions not even recommendations, since the team is already solid.

On Forry I'll advise Volt Change over Gyro Ball. You don't even mention it in the write-up of the movest, and as an avid user of the little bug myself I know how rarely you actually get to use your attacking move, whilst it can occasionally prove useful, it does far too little damage to TTar (which in any case mostly carry a Fire move now). VC lets you get a safe switchin for Tales, which is invaluable against other weather, especially Rain, whom Forry is a great lead against. It's also fun to watch Gyara fail to do anything as you repeatedly VC out of it with Forry :P, and your team looks like it may have a spot of trouble handling it at present.

Tales looks fine, I'd consider moving maybe 20 SpD to SpA just to counteract the fact that TTar and Heatran are very, very close 2/3HKOs with HP Fight, and any running more HP than normal could potentially screw you over if you have low damage rolls.

Volc and Dugtrio look fine, great sets for their role, don't change HP Rock.

For Saws I'd second the D-E advice, especially as you have 110 in HP. latios is a major threat this meta, and since you're tailored to outspeed Scarf variants, guaranteing the OHKO is pretty valuable imo, as without it the rare ScarfLatios will tear through your team. I'm also going to suggest Jump Kick over NP, since Chandelure is a rare sight out of DW and Heatran runs Balloon so often that (as you say) you'll have big issues dealing with it without a sac and/or Duggy being alive, especially if it's floating. Another Ground move is a bit obsolete if you ask me. Threatening TTar much more is another big benefit to this, ofc.

For Venusaur I'll have to recommend a purely special set. Seed Bomb fails to get you past Gliscor, which is a crucial thing to be able to OHKO for Saur given how common it is, and Return isn't getting you past Mence anytime soon, while it may deal with the Latis nicely. I'm unsure if you'll have faced it since it's quite rare, but Bulkymence is a terrible threat to Sun when played decently, so you really want as much as possible to be capable of dealing with him if he turns up. By going purely special you ofc also get a ton more power off saur's better SpA, which I believe is needed to OHKO Ferro with HP Fire in SS, which is very useful to me at least. Blissey may wall you with this set, but with Sawsbuck, and Duggy waiting in the wings you should be able to take her down. If she really poses issues then a ChestoRest Volc set may help you out as well, and you don't need to sac speed to do this, just use Fire Blast for the immediate hitting power to counter lack of LO.

Anyway, this team is damn good so I'll keep my eye on this thread to see how it does in future and hopefully help out a bit more :).
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top