CaP 19 Pre-Evo - Part 4 - Stats Submissions

[DHR-107]

Sorry for that guys... I've had some family issues going on.

Anyway welcome to the stats discussion and submissions!

Whilst you guys may want to optimise your Prevo for LC, any line of reasoning works and people may not vote for the best LC Mon! Minimanta should likely follow roughly the same style as its evolved form. However, I am entirely open to different interpretations of stat distributions.

Plasmanta is a bulky Special Attacker. His stats and abilities are below:

Type: Electric/Poison
Abilities: Storm Drain / Vital Spirit / Telepathy
Stats: 60 HP / 57 Atk / 119 Def / 131 SpA / 98 SpD / 100 Spe (BST: 565)

The Prevo's current status is:

Type: Electric/Poison
Abilities: Storm Drain / Vital Spirit / Telepathy
Stats: TBC

This thread will be open for about 36 hours! Get deciding on your stats! I will put a post up tomorrow morning of a 12 hour warning. I will accept Final Submissions from the immediate start of this thread. Please mark posts as such so I can find Final Submissions easily among the discussions!

While I have added you can FS from the start: Please add justification! A post with no justification will not get slated.

 

[Dogfish44]

OK, time for Plasmicra stats.

Mantyke to Mantine seems an appropriate base. Mantyke's BST is ~3/4 that of Mantyke's, so that gives Plasmicra... 423 BST. Given that's a wee bit high, I'm going to drop down to 400, which is a high, but nevertheless common range, and around 70% of Plasmanta's stats. Also a multiple of 5.

My current spread will be as such:

50 HP / 40 Atk / 100 Def / 65 SpA / 65 SpD / 80 Spe (BST: 400)

Most notable will be the Defense stat I imagine. I'm maintaining that very high to mimic the way that Mantyke has 120 SpD, a drop of just 20 from Mantine's 140.

Like Mantyke, the rest of the drops are solid across the board. Low drops to HP and Atk are because they already start low, whilst most art of Plasmicra indicates that the baby will be quite mobile, so I've left the speed high. I also figure that Plasmanta's SpA will develop upon evolution, whilst the SpD Less so.

 

[FMD]

Final Submission

20 / 10 / 30 / 55 / 25 / 85 (BST: 225)

My main inspiration for this is Gyarados's 340 point change in BST when evolving from Magikarp, also shared with Feebas/Milotic. As both Feebas and Magikarp not only share the same BST but also same stats in a different distribution, I decided to keep the 10/15/20/20/55/80 set as the base of the CAP's stats. Both Feebas and Magikarp have HP at 20 and Speed at 80, so I kept the pattern consistent in that regard. From there, I set the basic pattern of the stats to roughly match those of its evolve form. To accommodate Plasmanta having a BST 25 higher than Gyarados's, I had to add in 25 more points.

 

[P3DS]

Final Submission

Looking at some stuff about young manta, they seem to grow rapidly, while staying in sheltered locations, but fending for themselves, leaving me to think that something with significantly lower defenses, while having a decent SpA, but still usable. Since it would grow fast, and it would most likely be smaller, I'd think it would be faster when young. Looking at most low level evolution 2 stage water based pokemon, it is usually a 1.5 -> 2 x growth in BST. For that, I'd say around 375 BST.

Putting this into numbers, I looked at the following:

50 / 45 / 55 / 100 / 45 / 110 Total: 375

I also kept the similar feel of the defence being stronger than sp def

 

[The Avalanches]

The way I like to do my stats submissions is to compare the CAP with another similar Pokemon, and try and reference the pre-evolution(s) stats in making mine.

First, we have Plasmanta, here are it's stats:

60/57/119/131/98/100 = 565

You could argue that with the exception of Speed, Plasmanta's stats are very reminiscent of another Electric-type -- Magnezone.

Here are Magnezone's stats:

70/70/115/130/90/60 = 535

Very close, right? Aside from Maggy's low speed, the two are quite similar. However, we run into a problem; Plasmanta has a single pre-evolution while Magnezone has two, so I can't just base it on either Magnemite or Magneton, as it would be either too much of a drop in stats, or it would have stats far too high for a first stage Pokemon (not counting weirdos like Scyther or Sneasel).

So my plan is to try and find a divide between the two.

Here are the stats of Magnemite and Magneton:

25/35/70/95/55/45 = 325
50/60/90/120/70/70 = 465

I'd like to have a base stat total roughly in the middle of these two, preferably something between 380 and 410, a range containing Pokemon such as Porygon, Wailmer, Archen, Ponyta, Yanma, and Murkrow.

I came to the idea that chopping off 180 points off Plasmanta's spread would give me a decent first stage Pokemon that didn't look like it had a pituitary problem, and also sat reasonable between Magnemite and Magneton's stats.

Final Submission

40 HP / 37 Atk / 79 Def / 91 SpA / 68 SpD / 70 Spe (BST 385)

Although the Special Attack I've chosen falls below the range I set, the remaining stats fall comfortably within the ranges I set, aside from the Speed stats, which I raised to account for the fact that Plasmanta is considerably faster than Magnezone.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Finalised submission

 

[boxofkangaroos]

Final Submission

So Plasmanta's stats are 60 HP / 57 Atk / 119 Def / 131 SpA / 98 SpD / 100 Spe. (BST: 565)

As one can see, the most notable stats there are Defense and Special Attack, with good Speed and Special Defense.

Here is what I propose for Plasmanta's pre-evolution:
40 HP / 40 Atk / 80 Def / 85 SpA / 70 SpD / 75 Spe (BST 390)

These are essentially similar to Plasmanta's stats, but altogether notably less strong. To put its 85 Special Attack into perspective, it shares that stat with existing pre-evolutions such as Smoochum, Weepinbell, and Elgyem. While decent, it is suitable for a less powerful Pokémon. Mirroring its evolution, the hypothetical defensive stats are clearly biased towards the physical side, while Special Defense is manageable as well.

Thoughts?

 

[GoldNinja]

Alright, I'm gonna give it a shot.
For reference, Plasmanta's spread is 60 HP / 57 Atk / 119 Def / 131 SpA / 98 SpD / 100 Spe. (BST: 565)

Final Submission

Here is my spread proposal for Mini-Manta:
40 HP / 20 Atk / 75 Def / 80 SpA / 65 SpD / 100 Spe (BST 380)

Here is my bizarre thought process that led to this:
Instead of making one comparison a specific evolutionary line, I decided to examine THREE semi-comparable lines: those of Galvantula, Manectric, and Magnezone.
I found the percent difference in BST between Galvantula, Manectric, and their prevos. For Magnezone, I did something interesting. I averaged the BSTs of Magnemite and Magneton, and then did the same between Magneton and Magnezone. Then, I found the percent difference between the averages.
Comparing my three percentages, I noticed little of the correlation that I was hoping for, but decided to find an average percentage between the three and apply it to Plasmanta's BST anyway. The numbers yielded a BST of 255, which is far too low. I decided to increase this number by roughly 50%, eventually deciding on a BST of 380.

In regards to the stats themselves, the main thing I cared about was maintaining Plasmanta's speed. The reason for this is simple: while Plasmanta may be large and powerful, Mini-Manta is small, but very agile and fast, allowing it to keep up with its evolutionary relative. After that, I distributed the remaining stats according to typical prevo stats, with regard to Plasmanta's key attributes, Special Attack and its Defenses (but not HP).

So, in essence, it's an average BST based on other Pokemon with similar stat biases towards SpA and Speed/Def, but boosted by ~50% (because 255 is ick), with an emphasis on Speed due to Mini-Manta's stature and assumed agility.

 

[NumberCruncher]

Final Submission

50 HP/45 Atk/51 Def/63 SpA/41 SpD/80 Spe (BST 330).

So first of all, Pokemon with that only one prevo with around 565 BST have on average ~320 BST if you ignore extreme outliers like Munchlax, Feebas, and Magikarp. Thus we should probably aim for somewhere close to that, probably on the higher end, as most of the pokemon close to 565 BST are closer to 540 BST.

You'll note that the stats that baby Plasmanta's HP and Attack are both pretty close to regular Plasmanta's HP and attack, while Plasmanta's best stats grow at a pretty spectacular rate, which is how many different prevos work in the actual game. Speed tend to be something that doesn't grow fast unless the pokemon is built around speed, so it only gets 20 more speed. Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense all get huge buffs from evolving.

For an idea of what this looks like statwise, think Natu, but a tad bulkier.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Final Submission

30 HP / 21 Atk / 99 Def / 95 SpA / 50 SDef / 75 Spe (BST 375)

I decided to base this spread of Magikarp and Gyarados seeing as how they are they are closely related to our prevo and Plasmanta. So I decided to use the stat differences in their evolutionary line here as a percentage, however since they have a such high BST difference I decided to cut that. After that I decided to change the results I got to better represent Plasmanta, and I rose the speed to better fit the planned artwork designs.

 

[Dogfish44]

Final Submission

50 HP / 20 Atk / 100 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpD / 80 Spe (BST: 370)

Offensively, Plasmanta's Level Up movepool is incredibly biased to Special Moves. I can't see any reason for Plasmicra to change that, so my submission gave it a very low ATK, the same as Mantyke's. 60 SpA is similar to the main offense of many other Pokemon who have one notably high defensive stat - lower than the mons who were once FE, but similar to many other Pokemon in a similar range.

Defensively I've kept Plasmanta's low HP, high defense and decent SpD. Once again I've used Mantyke for my reference on having a very high single stat, then two mediocre stats.

In terms of speed, it's not common for aquatic-styled prevos to lose speed, especially ones where the art submitted so far all look very nimble. Hence, the Speed has a comparatively low drop.

 

[Unsee]

Hmmmm... I might as well give this a shot! :D

Just for my own reference, Plasmanta's stats are 60 HP / 57 Atk / 119 Def / 131 SpA / 98 SpD / 100 Spe, with a BST of 565. Ok, cool.

So a very defensive Pokémon should have an equally defensive prevo, right? Here's my idea: 40 HP / 25 Atk / 95 Def / 65 SpA / 45 SpD / 110 Spe for a BST of 375.

I'd really like for Minimanta to be faster than its father, cuz it just seems to me that it should be faster. So yeah. :P

 

[Uselesscrab]

Final Submission

Basing these on Larvesta's as compared to Volcarona's. The comparison is there; Volcarona has a BST and a Special Attack stat similar to those of Plasmanta. Also, they seem similar flavor-wise.

Volcarona's stats are 85 HP / 60 Atk / 65 Def / 135 SpA / 105 SpD / 100 Spe (BST: 550)

Plasmanta's stats are 60 HP / 57 Atk / 119 Def / 131 SpA / 98 SpD / 100 Spe (BST: 565)

See what I mean? The main discrepancies are in HP and Defense.

Larvesta's stats are 55 HP / 85 Atk / 55 Def / 50 SpA / 55 SpD / 60 Spe (BST: 360)

So the prevo should be scaled similarly to Larvesta (this makes it a physical attacker, which I think makes sense; perhaps it only gains Plasmanta's "special" powers upon evolution)

So, for the prevo, I propose:

40 HP / 80 Atk / 100 Def / 50 SpA / 50 SpD / 60 Spe (BST: 380)

 

[MQJinx]

Final Submission

24 HP / 14 Atk / 84 Def / 92 SpA / 64 SpD / 62 Spe (BST 340)

Low Attack to keep the trend of minimanta not being able to go physical/mixed. I also made minimanta's HP low as baby rays tend to be fragile. 84 Def gives it some degree of bulk, 92 SpA mirrors that of Magnemite, which final evolution has similar SpA, 64 SpD was created by using Mantyke as reference, and 62 Spe continues the trend of "powerful foe that gets outsped by top threats to trick them into fainting them," this time the contender being Mienfoo. (minimanta Gets KO'd, Mienfoo gets forced out by the incoming Fletchling, who SDs on the switch and proceeds to sweep) (although theoretically, the playtest will overprepare for both it and Fletchling)

 

[The Avalanches]

Final Submission

24 HP / 14 Atk / 84 Def / 92 SpA / 64 SpD / 62 Spe (BST 340)

Low Attack to keep the trend of minimanta not being able to go physical/mixed. I also made minimanta's HP low as baby rays tend to be fragile. 84 Def gives it some degree of bulk, 92 SpA mirrors that of Magnemite, which final evolution has similar SpA, 64 SpD was created by using Mantyke as reference, and 62 Spe continues the trend of "powerful foe that gets outsped by top threats to trick them into fainting them," this time the contender being Mienfoo. (minimanta Gets KO'd, Mienfoo gets forced out by the incoming Fletchling, who SDs on the switch and proceeds to sweep) (although theoretically, the playtest will overprepare for both it and Fletchling)

There won't be a playtest. We're only making these guys from a flavor perspective, and while I do think Minimanta would be an epic check to a lot of LC's best Pokemon, we won't be implementing the guy on a server.

 

[DHR-107]

Okay guys, I am posting to let you know when I get home tonight (Circa 6 hours or so) is when I'll look these things over and see where we get too.

If you have not already Final Subbed, please make use of this time and check everything is ready.

boxofkangaroos The Unseen Potato

 

[Unsee]

Final Submission

Gah! Sorry about my lateness! Anyway, I be decided to go with my original plan (but slightly changed) of

60 HP / 25 Atk / 95 Def / 65 SpA / 45 SpD / 90 Spe (BST 375)

Once again, I'd really love for Minimanta to be faster than its father, but it DOES seem relatively fast compared to the other submissions. So I decided to take the speed down two notches and raise the HP accordingly, so we can have a mildly bulky stingray destroying LC (CAP LC needs to happen)! Thanks for considering my idea—it means a lot to me :D

Just saying - if SOMEHOW this thing gets on to the servers, it would be swimming in the blood of its prey. And that prey is the code of Showdown and all of LC.