To be 100% fair, Synchronoise Umbreon. Vigoroth learns Rest. And Reiga already mentioned Attract Cryogonal. Just saying.
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CAP 23 CAP 23 - Part 12 - Flavor Ability Discussion
- Thread starter Deck Knight
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To be 100% fair, Synchronoise Umbreon. Vigoroth learns Rest. And Reiga already mentioned Attract Cryogonal. Just saying.
Synchronoise doesn't "fail" so much as Dark types are immune to it. That's not a "but it failed" message. And in any case, it could be used if Umbreon were hit with Soak, etc first.
Comatose is particularly unique in this regard because it can't be removed or swapped so it's not the same as Vital Spirit Vigoroth, since it could at least in theory use Rest if it was hit with Skill Swap, Simple Beam, or Gastro Acid, etc first.
You are right however about Cryogonal Attract... which apparently applies to Minior and Dhelmise too. Weird.
In any case, out of the hundreds of Pokemon and the dozens of moves each learn, you've found a paltry few exceptions. The best flavor is to still make Rest possible via a second ability that doesn't block its use.
Comatose is particularly unique in this regard because it can't be removed or swapped so it's not the same as Vital Spirit Vigoroth, since it could at least in theory use Rest if it was hit with Skill Swap, Simple Beam, or Gastro Acid, etc first.
You are right however about Cryogonal Attract... which apparently applies to Minior and Dhelmise too. Weird.
In any case, out of the hundreds of Pokemon and the dozens of moves each learn, you've found a paltry few exceptions. The best flavor is to still make Rest possible via a second ability that doesn't block its use.
I don't disagree, in fact I actually agree with you on this (though I've yet to state it before now). I just wanted to provide a few examples of Game Freak letting some things happen that are just... weird. :)
If it weren't for the presence of Rest in the movepool, I'd want to go with No Flavor Ability, considering Comatose is the only ability that I believe really fits Pajantom's flavor without adding another competitive one. However, Rest is nevertheless there, and, as Bughouse said, the only precedence of a Pokemon having a move it can't use in any situation is genderless Pokemon having Attract. In that case, I'll put my support towards Unnerve, which was brought up earlier but not talked about too much. It nails the scary-nightmare-ghost aspect perfectly. It misses out on the sleepiness flavor though, which kinda sucks. Really wish Rest wasn't in the movepool, but what can you do.
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Rest was always going to be bad flavour (hence why I wanted it to be removed from the required moves at movepool stage), but there is no reason that we cannot simply decide to give a pre-vo a non-Comatose ability in order to justify it's presence on the movepool. And beyond that, others have mentioned moves that cannot be used do habitually pop up without reason.
I will also point out (as has been done already) that Vigoroth also learns Rest by TM, which is particularly notable as a case where pre-vos getting the move is strong justification for a mon that can't actually use the move (and whilst there is a slightly higher chance that Vigoroth can use Rest since Vital Spirit can be gotten rid of, it is practically the case).
Comatose as an ability is too overwhelming in my mind to be anything but a lone ability when it comes to Pajantom - Comatose's near impossibility to be gotten rid of only helps justify that point. For the first time since I started being a part of CAP I'm backing No Flavour Ability, since I believe that's the strongest flavour choice.
I will also point out (as has been done already) that Vigoroth also learns Rest by TM, which is particularly notable as a case where pre-vos getting the move is strong justification for a mon that can't actually use the move (and whilst there is a slightly higher chance that Vigoroth can use Rest since Vital Spirit can be gotten rid of, it is practically the case).
Comatose as an ability is too overwhelming in my mind to be anything but a lone ability when it comes to Pajantom - Comatose's near impossibility to be gotten rid of only helps justify that point. For the first time since I started being a part of CAP I'm backing No Flavour Ability, since I believe that's the strongest flavour choice.
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I'm backing Symbiosis and Friend Guard. They make more sense than No Flavor Ability to me, or any other ability that's been suggested.
I haven't seen any detractors for Unnerve, Damp, and Water Veil, and in addition to Forewarn, Telepathy, White Smoke, and No Flavor Ability, I support them as options too.
I haven't seen any detractors for Unnerve, Damp, and Water Veil, and in addition to Forewarn, Telepathy, White Smoke, and No Flavor Ability, I support them as options too.
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There's so much wrong with giving this thing Water Veil that I don't think I should argument about it, but are we really honest to god considering a being thats reforced as being made of gas is actually a water bed?
White Smoke would be nice if it weren't obvious that Pajantom isn't white, and considering it isn't a fire type likely can't create white smoke.
Aftermath was deemed too competitive earlier in the thread. Water Veil, Damp and Limber don't make any sense flavor-wise in my opinion. Friend Guard doesn't not make sense, but... it kind of comes out of nowhere for this Pokemon. All in all, I think that Unnerve, White Smoke, and Oblivious fit the best on Pajantom. Of course, I still like No Flavor Ability a lot.
Okay, I have something to say about Oblivious. It honestly is the exact opposite of what we want for a flavor ability. First of all, it has a rather competitive application with all of the status moves given to Pajantom. A set of Toxic Spikes / Fairy Lock / Heal Block / filler with Oblivious may not be the best set of all, but it seems like a pretty decent lead set to me, or at least more competitive than a flavor ability should be. Honestly, Oblivious isn’t a good idea.
Also, Damp, Limber, Water Veil and Overcoat are imo ridiculous in terms of flavor. Please don’t let these through.
Also, Damp, Limber, Water Veil and Overcoat are imo ridiculous in terms of flavor. Please don’t let these through.
No Flavor Ability is the only option that really makes sense IMO
You listed Friend Guard twice :P
LucarioOfLegends said:
Reviloja753 said:
I also didn't think it'd been 24 hours yet. Sorry for not saying anything sooner but I was still in the middle of submitting and then editing a post. Is it okay if I still... do that?
(Alright, hopefully this is okay to post for now, sorry otherwise)
Sorry for my last post, I don't know how but somehow I managed to miss that Aftermath was on snake's list on the last page, thanks GoldenGear1000 for pointing this out. I'll be editing that post shortly after I finish writing this in accordance to everyone's responses, since I still want it to reflect my final opinions, flawed as they might be.
Some responses to the responses:
GoldenGear1000
How dare you
I kid, but I really like Friend Guard personally, and I don't think it's a suggestion that came out of nowhere. I'm in favor of it for almost the exact same reasons I am for Symbiosis.
Reviloja753 I agree with your sentiments on Oblivious honestly, I’ll be nixing that from my proposal too, I didn’t put enough thought into how useful that has the potential to be as a flavor ability. As for the other four, I’m just gonna respond to
Reigaheres too to explain my thoughts on why I listed these, at least Damp and Water Veil(looking back on it, I don’t find Overcoat as appealing either, and I also understand that Limber doesn’t have much flavor justification behind it). These are the Water and Ice type moves Pajantom has access to: Haze, Ice Fang, Ice Punch, Rain Dance, Surf, and Whirpool. Omanyte, Omastar, and Tapu Fini are currently the only ‘mons that have access to both Whirlpool and Haze. No Pokemon besides Pajantom get access to Whirlpool, Haze, and Ice Punch. I think it both makes sense that Pajantom would be wet during or after using these attacks, and that they are a prominent enough part of its flavor as a Pokemon to have either ability be justified for flavor reasons. Deck Knight was the one who suggested Water Veil in the first place, even if they are not wholly in support of it.
(I think the reasoning I've provided in defense of Damp and Water Veil translate to White Smoke too as the water vapor using these moves would create, evaporating, would probably create a similar visual effect.)
Sorry for my last post, I don't know how but somehow I managed to miss that Aftermath was on snake's list on the last page, thanks GoldenGear1000 for pointing this out. I'll be editing that post shortly after I finish writing this in accordance to everyone's responses, since I still want it to reflect my final opinions, flawed as they might be.
Some responses to the responses:
GoldenGear1000
How dare you
I kid, but I really like Friend Guard personally, and I don't think it's a suggestion that came out of nowhere. I'm in favor of it for almost the exact same reasons I am for Symbiosis.
Reviloja753 I agree with your sentiments on Oblivious honestly, I’ll be nixing that from my proposal too, I didn’t put enough thought into how useful that has the potential to be as a flavor ability. As for the other four, I’m just gonna respond to
Reigaheres too to explain my thoughts on why I listed these, at least Damp and Water Veil(looking back on it, I don’t find Overcoat as appealing either, and I also understand that Limber doesn’t have much flavor justification behind it). These are the Water and Ice type moves Pajantom has access to: Haze, Ice Fang, Ice Punch, Rain Dance, Surf, and Whirpool. Omanyte, Omastar, and Tapu Fini are currently the only ‘mons that have access to both Whirlpool and Haze. No Pokemon besides Pajantom get access to Whirlpool, Haze, and Ice Punch. I think it both makes sense that Pajantom would be wet during or after using these attacks, and that they are a prominent enough part of its flavor as a Pokemon to have either ability be justified for flavor reasons. Deck Knight was the one who suggested Water Veil in the first place, even if they are not wholly in support of it.
(I think the reasoning I've provided in defense of Damp and Water Veil translate to White Smoke too as the water vapor using these moves would create, evaporating, would probably create a similar visual effect.)
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Alrighty! Thank you all for the discussion, as we got some really great suggestions! But, as always, we have to thin the herd and let only a few move on. As such, here is our slate!
Forewarn
Friend Guard
Symbiosis
Unnerve
Vital Spirit
No Flavor Ability
Generally, these five abilities had support from multiple people and didn't seem completely outlandish in its flavor reasoning, which made them the most suitable for the slate. NFA is always an important option to consider, so it was also place on the slate as well. With that! Onward we go to victory!
Forewarn
Friend Guard
Symbiosis
Unnerve
Vital Spirit
No Flavor Ability
Generally, these five abilities had support from multiple people and didn't seem completely outlandish in its flavor reasoning, which made them the most suitable for the slate. NFA is always an important option to consider, so it was also place on the slate as well. With that! Onward we go to victory!
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