CaP 25 GFW - Prevo Discussion - Typings and Abilities

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Thoughts on different stuffs since I've been out of it lately.

I think all of the initials should be just their primary types. Caribolt and Smoko's prevos mostly for semantic reasons (Having a double weakness to such a common type in early game is kinda not great for smoko (Rowlet got away with it because Ice-types aren't common early game) and blowing the electric type card for caribolt prevo loses a lot of appeal in my eyes), but Snaelstrom prevo having a Water/Bug typing completely breaks the trinity early game.

In terms of other evolution places and types, think the ground typing should be added to Smoko mid-evo. Deck Knight's data shows that techically only Fire/Fighting types got that privilege, but it kinda just feels right imo. Think Caribolt electric typing should be kept until final, although hints in mid are fine. No preference towards Snaelstrom prevos as long as it ain't first evo. Probably mid is most preferable.

Umm the typings for the prevos have already been decided lol.

So we now have our typings!

Grass -> Grass/Electric -> Grass/Electric

Fire -> Fire/Ground -> Fire/Ground

Water -> Water/Bug -> Water/Bug

How do we feel about this fitting in with the abilities listed in the post above? Has it changed anyone's thoughts? This will only apply to Caribolt and Snaelstrom, as we are keeping Technician for Smokomodo's prevos!

 

[DHR-107]

So After looking through the posts above, I am unclear when people want the abilities to change. I am going to post some suggestions below, and based on the typings, I would prefer we changed abilities at their first evolution, rather than their second. I understand this is unprecedented, but we also have a set of typings which aren't!

Carbibaby

Abilities:
Galvanize -> Galvanize -> Galvanize
Static -> Galvanize -> Galvanize
Lightning Rod -> Galvanize -> Galvanize

Smallstrom

Abilities:
Poison Heal -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal
Sticky Hold -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal
Gooey -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal
Immunity -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal

How do you guys feel about the above going to polls? Agree? Disagree?

 

[Madsi6]

So After looking through the posts above, I am unclear when people want the abilities to change. I am going to post some suggestions below, and based on the typings, I would prefer we changed abilities at their first evolution, rather than their second. I understand this is unprecedented, but we also have a set of typings which aren't!

Carbibaby

Abilities:
Galvanize -> Galvanize -> Galvanize
Static -> Galvanize -> Galvanize
Lightning Rod -> Galvanize -> Galvanize

Smallstrom

Abilities:
Poison Heal -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal
Sticky Hold -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal
Gooey -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal
Immunity -> Poison Heal -> Poison Heal

How do you guys feel about the above going to polls? Agree? Disagree?

I personally think that poison heal should be exclusive to snaelstrom, making it x -> x -> poison heal, despite it being water/bug during the second stage.
My reason revolves more around the nature of the second stage, which to me doesn't seem strong enough to digest poison, having just evolved from a small snail or a slug of sorts, it doesn't fit with me that it can digest poison and use it to heal itself in the process, that's something which snaelstrom to me feels like it fits, being a big snail with a large shell, having the ability to digest poison and use it to heal itself seems like something that requires alot of energy to do, as it would change in its dna regarding the ability to digest poison. That is not something I see the second stage being able to do quite yet, as it's not strong enough to be able to adapt to the ability to eat and digest poison for health, and are more I guess brute force if they were to go against toxapex, not for food.

For caribaby I'm more leaning towards x -> x -> galvanize.
Galvanizing is the stimulant of natural electric energy, or in more simpler terms, charging electricity to resemble that of natural electricity. This process is not something I see neither of the first 2 stages doing, as they simply do not have the size for it (When I imagine caribolt galvanizing, it could be turning energy gained by either the sun or by rapidly moving into electric current, something which requires a body structure that can handle it) and don't feel strong enough to do so.

Those are my reasons for having the hidden abilities of the fully evolved snaelstrom and caribolt be different from their pre-evolution forms :)
(Just kind of hoping I did my research correct and not looking like a fool spouting random things not related to the things I'm trying to convey, if so please let me know)

 

[G-Luke]

I personally think that poison heal should be exclusive to snaelstrom, making it x -> x -> poison heal, despite it being water/bug during the second stage.
My reason revolves more around the nature of the second stage, which to me doesn't seem strong enough to digest poison, having just evolved from a small snail or a slug of sorts, it doesn't fit with me that it can digest poison and use it to heal itself in the process, that's something which snaelstrom to me feels like it fits, being a big snail with a large shell, having the ability to digest poison and use it to heal itself seems like something that requires alot of energy to do, as it would change in its dna regarding the ability to digest poison. That is not something I see the second stage being able to do quite yet, as it's not strong enough to be able to adapt to the ability to eat and digest poison for health, and are more I guess brute force if they were to go against toxapex, not for food.

For caribaby I'm more leaning towards x -> x -> galvanize.
Galvanizing is the stimulant of natural electric energy, or in more simpler terms, charging electricity to resemble that of natural electricity. This process is not something I see neither of the first 2 stages doing, as they simply do not have the size for it (When I imagine caribolt galvanizing, it could be turning energy gained by either the sun or by rapidly moving into electric current, something which requires a body structure that can handle it) and don't feel strong enough to do so.

Those are my reasons for having the hidden abilities of the fully evolved snaelstrom and caribolt be different from their pre-evolution forms :)
(Just kind of hoping I did my research correct and not looking like a fool spouting random things not related to the things I'm trying to convey, if so please let me know)

Starters dont randomly change their hidden abilities. Its bad enough we plan on changing one. But changing two is overkill.

 

[Zetalz]

Starters dont randomly change their hidden abilities. Its bad enough we plan on changing one. But changing two is overkill.

You say that but one of the discussion points that's even allowed for this discussion to go this way is the whole Emboar line shtick of Thick Fat > Reckless. I do agree on the front of not changing more then one though no need to overdo it.

As far as the slates goes I'm in full agreement with it. Considering it was decided for all of them to gain their secondary types at the first evolution it would make sense to also swap their (potentially) different HAs to their final ones. Personally I don't believe Smolstrom's even needs to change from PHeal but that's for the voters to decide.

 

[Reiga]

Species of sea slugs as small as 3-4 cm wide like the well-known Glaucus atlanticus can digest venomous creatures such as man o' wars, and aren't inherently venomous, but can store their toxins for their own use in the same way a Poison Heal mon can benefit from poison status. "having just evolved from a small snail or a slug of sorts" shouldn't ever be a problem here.

Alongside that, as stated before, starters changing abilities is something really rare, and since we're already doing that with 25G, its best we avoid having two mons that do that.

Either way, lets say its possible the small snail might be too weak or whatever for poison. Look at the other starters: Totodile is a miniscule crocodile that gets Sheer Force, Torchic is a clumsy little chick that waddles unsteadily and gets Speed Boost, and Fennekin's only defining characteristic is that it spits fire and eats twigs and yet it gets Magician (an ability almost as rare as Poison Heal). The status quo of starters getting their fully evolved counterpart's ability far outweighs the Tepig line's sole exception to this rule.

 

[ShunosaurusLii]

I feel like the snaelstrom line should keep poison heal the whole way. The shroomish line does so, so there's already precedent there. Reiga has already made a wonderful argument about starters keeping even nonsensical HAs, and I would like to remind everyone that the prevo designs haven't even been made or decided on for smallstrom, so arguing that a nonexistent Pokemon isn't strong enough to digest poison doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[NatWFan]

Looking at it in another way, I think there's no reason for Snaelstrom's prevos to not have Poison Heal because it's not associated with a certain type, unlike Galvanize. There's no reason why a Water/Bug should get Poison Heal over a pure Water type, but there is a clear reason why a Grass/Electric can get Galvanize and a pure Grass cannot.

 

[Frostbiyt]

I still think Static shouldn't be considered for the same reason we're considering not having Galvanize for all three stages. Static is exclusive to Electric types and has been since its introduction in gen 3. If we chose Static, then Caribolt's line would both change hidden ability(which has only happened once for starter Pokemon) and give a non Electric type an Electric exclusive ability. If we kept Galvanize, we may be giving an Electric exclusive ability to a non Electric type, but at least we wouldn't also be changing hidden ability.

 

[Shokkking]

Imo a pure Grass-type having Static doesn't make sense. The ability is only found in Electric-type Pokemon basing in the concept that they can "paralysis" the foe with their own electricy. Thus Lightning Rod is more believable than Static, as some Pokémon like Marowak-Alola, Rhydon and Seaking have this ability without being Electric-types! Galvanize is also strange because of the pure Grass-type, but it still sounds nice.

 

[Mova]

I'd prefer if Caribolt's first stage gets Lightning Rod, but I don't mind if Snaelstrom's kids both receive Poison Heal. The only official examples we have for changes in HAs among starter lines are Emboar and its prevos, who change from Thick Fat to Reckless after fully evolving. Poison Heal does not appear to be related to any particular typing, so there is no need to force a change there.

 

[DHR-107]

I hadn't actually realised the connotations of Static being similar to Galvanize. Being only available to electric types. I believe I have been swayed by that argument, so I will be removing it from the slate. Lightning Rod and Galvanize will go forward.

Water Prevos will go with the four above as there was not significant further discussion on any of them. I hope we don't change for at least one of these prevos! Polls will be up soon :)

I'm also going to be posting the art thread shortly too!