CAP 30 - Part 15 - Final Movepool Submissions

[Brian Geniouse]

Issuing a formal legality check request on Bug coverage, in particular Bug Buzz and Megahorn. I assume it’s in the same boat as Grass coverage, but never hurts to be sure.

Also wondering about other entry hazards (eg Spikes, Toxic Spikes) as alternatives to Stealth Rock, in a similar vein to how Iron Defense can be run instead of Acid Armor.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I know Grass moves are allowed, but requesting a legality check on Giga Drain.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Final Submission

Level Up (13 New, 13 Total)

1 Poison Sting
1 Confuse Ray
6 Peck
12 Night Shade
18 Torment
24 Air Cutter
30 Venoshock
36 Toxic
42 Roost
48 Drill Peck
54 Eerie Spell
60 Coil
66 Gunk Shot

For the most part I just decided to fill up the movepool with Poison and Flying type moves, with the exceptions to that mostly being magic related (Night Shade, Confuse Ray, Eerie Spell). Night Shade and Eerie Spell were chosen in particular as they can very easily be connected to dark magic (Which is what I'm going for mostly in this moveset) and while Eerie Spell is a signature move, it just fits so well that I couldn't not go with it. I choose to go with learning a new move every 6 Levels so that it fits Gen 8 style movepools, and I choose 6 in particular just because it sort of felt kinda nice. I also figured that our BST is high enough that we can get away with learning new moves past Level 60 although not quite enough to learn them past Level 60, so I stopped them at Level 66.

Egg (4 New, 4 Total)

Egg Group: Amorphous

Knock Off ( ) →
Psybeam
Haze
Memento


Knock Off is here because its required and it sort of works against the Level-Up pattern I was working with so I decided to put it here. The rest of the Egg Moves are here for similar reasons, with the choices relating to some sort of Dark Magic for the most part (Psybeam

TM (28 New, 29 Total)

TM06: Fly
TM08: Hyper Beam
TM09: Giga Impact
TM10: Magical Leaf
TM14: Thunder Wave
TM18: Reflect
TM21: Rest
TM24: Snore
TM25: Protect
TM26: Scary Face
TM28: Giga Drain
TM30: Steel Wing
TM31: Attract
TM39: Facade
TM40: Swift
TM44: Imprison
TM56: U-turn
TM57: Payback
TM58: Assurance
TM70: Trick Room
TM71: Wonder Room
TM72: Magic Room
TM74: Venoshock
TM76: Round
TM77: Hex
TM85: Snarl
TM92: Mystical Fire
TM95: Air Slash

Standard stuff here for the most part. I did choose to go with a lot of Dark-Types moves here though, just so that it goes along with the motif of an evil spellbook that I was working with earlier. I was originally thinking of putting Phantom Force in here as well for the same reason, but I decided against it since outside of Mew and Yveltal only Ghost Types get it, and I didn't really like it enough to make that exception here.

TR(25 New, 26 Total)

TR00: Swords Dance
TR01: Body Slam
TR11: Psychic
TR18: Leech Life
TR20: Substitute
TR22: Sludge Bomb
TR25: Psyshock
TR26: Endure
TR27: Sleep Talk
TR33: Shadow Ball
TR46: Iron Defense
TR54: Toxic Spikes
TR57: Poison Jab
TR58: Dark Pulse
TR65: Energy Ball
TR66: Brave Bird
TR67: Earth Power
TR68: Nasty Plot
TR73: Gunk Shot
TR76: Stealth Rock
TR78: Sludge Wave
TR81: Foul Play
TR82: Stored Power
TR83: Ally Switch
TR89: Hurricane
TR91: Venom Drench
TR99: Body Press

Same deal with my TMs for the most part. One notable exclusion I have from the other movepools though is the lack of Dazzling Gleam, which mostly just comes from the fact that the move sort of contradicts what I was going for with this movepool so I decided to cut it.

Tutor (3 New, 3 Total)

Burning Jealousy
Dual Wingbeat
Lash Out

Dual Wingbeat is obvious given that we have wings, and I figured that Burning Jealousy and Lash Out both fit the "Dark Magic Book" motfic

Total (73 Moves)

Air Cutter
Air Slash
Ally Switch
Assurance
Attract
Body Press
Body Slam
Brave Bird
Burning Jealousy
Coil
Confuse Ray
Dark Pulse
Drill Peck
Dual Wingbeat
Earth Power
Eerie Spell
Endure
Energy Ball
Facade
Fly
Foul Play
Giga Drain
Giga Impact
Gunk Shot
Haze
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Imprison
Iron Defense
Knock Off
Lash Out
Leech Life
Magic Room
Magical Leaf
Memento
Mystical Fire
Nasty Plot
Night Shade
Payback
Peck
Poison Jab
Poison Sting
Protect
Psybeam
Psychic
Psyshock
Reflect
Rest
Roost
Round
Scary Face
Shadow Ball
Sleep Talk
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Snarl
Snore
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Stored Power
Substitute
Swift
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Torment
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Trick Room
U-turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock
Wonder Room

 

[Ayecrusher King]

Just in case it causes my submission to be void, requesting a legality check to not have Attract. Arguments given in my Egg Moves section.

 

[Bloopyghost]

Final Submission

Barring some minor edits, here's my final movepool. Nothing too crazy, though the LU pool is fairly robust. The main gimmick of my pool is the various references to recurring spells from the Kingdom Hearts games (all of which come from Final Fantasy but KH distills and simplifies a lot of them so I went with that instead). I played loose with these, so some moves may be stretches and I avoided making this gimmick obvious, but these should all still fit the “magic book” flavor anyway.

Level-up (16 Total, 16 New)

01: Astonish
01: Withdraw
04: Poison Sting
08: Peck
12: Disable
16: Air Cutter
20: Gravity
24: Nasty Plot
28: Mind Reader
32: Drill Peck
36: Heal Pulse
40: Toxic
44: Roost
48: Sludge Bomb
52: Coil
56: Hurricane

Egg Moves (4 Total, 4 New)

Egg Group(s): Amorphous

Destiny Bond (Drifloon, Yamask, Litwick)
Knock Off (Machop -> Ralts)
Memento (Koffing, Spiritomb, Litwick)
Pain Split (Litwick, Solosis, Pumpkaboo)

TMs (26 Total, 26 New)

TM06 Fly
TM08 Hyper Beam
TM09 Giga Impact
TM10 Magical Leaf
TM14 Thunder Wave
TM17 Light Screen
TM18 Reflect
TM19 Safeguard
TM20 Self-Destruct
TM21 Rest
TM24 Snore
TM25 Protect
TM27 Icy Wind
TM30 Steel Wing
TM31 Attract
TM39 Facade
TM40 Swift
TM44 Imprison
TM56 U-turn
TM70 Trick Room
TM72 Magic Room
TM74 Venoshock
TM76 Round
TM77 Hex
TM92 Mystical Fire
TM95 Air Slash

TRs (20 Total, 18 New)

TR00 Swords Dance
TR11 Psychic
TR19 Tri Attack
TM20 Substitute
TR26 Endure
TR27 Sleep Talk
TR33 Shadow Ball
TR46 Iron Defense
TR54 Toxic Spikes
TR57 Poison Jab
TR66 Brave Bird
TR67 Earth Power
TR68 Nasty Plot
TR73 Gunk Shot
TR76 Stealth Rock
TR78 Sludge Wave
TR82 Stored Power
TR89 Hurricane
TR91 Venom Drench
TR99 Body Press

Going with Iron Defense over Acid Armor.

Tutor Moves (1 Total, 1 New)

Dual Wingbeat

Total: 65

Air Cutter
Air Slash
Astonish
Attract
Body Press
Brave Bird
Coil
Destiny Bond
Disable
Drill Peck
Dual Wingbeat
Earth Power
Endure
Facade
Fly
Giga Impact
Gravity
Gunk Shot
Heal Pulse
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Icy Wind
Imprison
Iron Defense
Knock Off
Light Screen
Magic Room
Magical Leaf
Memento
Mind Reader
Mystical Fire
Roost
Nasty Plot
Pain Split
Peck
Poison Jab
Poison Sting
Protect
Psychic
Reflect
Rest
Round
Safeguard
Self-Destruct
Shadow Ball
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Snore
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Sleep Talk
Stored Power
Substitute
Swift
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Tri Attack
Trick Room
U-turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock
Withdraw

Move Justifications

01: Astonish - Ven can hide as a normal book and pop out to spook ya.
01: Withdraw - It’s a book, it snaps shut to defend. Both lv1 moves are shared with Applin, another cute Pokemon that pretends to be an inanimate object.
04: Poison Sting - Have you ever been stabbed with a pen?
08: Peck - If book is getting Drill Peck and BB, why not give it Peck for the baby levels?
12: Disable - The first KH spell reference. This lines up with Stop. Also nice spooky flavor.
16: Air Cutter - KH spell reference, lines up with Aero.
20: Gravity - KH spell. Literally just Gravity. Also funny with Cane/Gunk/Hypnosis.
24: Nasty Plot - Mandatory, Ven probably contains a nasty plot.
28: Mind Reader - The book reads you!
32: Drill Peck - Mandatory
36: Heal Pulse - KH spell, lines up with Cure.
40: Toxic - Mandatory
44: Roost - Mandatory
48: Sludge Bomb - Mandatory
52: Coil - Mandatory, i t w o r k s
56: Hurricane - Mandatory

TM10 Magical Leaf - It’s filled with magical leaves :)
TM14 Thunder Wave - Mandatory, lines up with KH's Thunder.
TM17 Light Screen, TM18 Reflect and TM19 Safeguard - KH spells. All three are Reflect.
TM20 Self-Destruct - Explosion was discussed and was considered inferior to BB, so I see no problem with adding a weaker ‘plosion. I mostly liked the visual of a book bursting into a whirlwind of pages and ink.
TM27 Icy Wind - KH spell, lines up with Blizzard (I didn't actually give it Blizzard to avoid bloat)
TM92 Mystical Fire - Mandatory, lines up with KH's Fire.

Edit: Removed Sinistea as a possible parent for Egg Moves.

Edit 2: Removed Spikes.

Edit 3: Removed Discharge. Added Light Screen and Shadow Ball, upping move total to 66. Edited justifications to reflect changes.

Edit 4: Fixed and changed level-up cadence (namely Poison Sting and Hurricane). Removed Magical Leaf from LU pool. I really wanted to keep it there, but I figure it was best to keep it off. Did not realize I miscounted Hurricane’s LU the entire time lol. Thanks Kj for alerting me to my mistakes.

Edit 5: Removed Hypnosis, lowering move total to 65.

 

[G-Luke]

Had this discussion on Discord, but to make it official, Id like to dispute the barring of special Ghost and Dark coverage above 65 BP. Frankly, these moves are just redundant in regards to possible attacks this Pokémon would use in battle. Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball would be targeting the same Pokémon, bulky Psychic types, but our most prominent bulky Psychic types are the Slow Family, which in the case of Slowking and Slowbro are already heavily punished by our powerful Hurricane STAB which outdamges them or simply by our existing access to Discharge. Slowking-Galar similarly gets hard bullied by Earth Power, and while the argument can be made that Hurricane + Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse allows you to beat these Pokémon more consistently, fails to account for how these sets would play versus the wider meta, heavily hampering the arguably much more important Heatran, Haze Toxapex and Corviknighy matchups, as DPulse or SBall simply would not allow this Pokémon to bypass them, allowing these mons to either easily gain momentum or even outright beat Venomicon, which it simply cannot afford to do.

TL;DR SBall and DPulse are too niche options competitively to warrant being outright blacklisted, and I would like the TLT team or specifically the Moves Leader kjnjkmjk1 to at least reconsider.

 

[Yoshiblaze]

WIP

Level-up (13 total, 13 new)

1: Astonish
1: Confide
6: Peck
12: Spite
18: Role Play
24: Air Cutter
30: Venoshock
36: Acid Armor
42: Roost
48: Drill Peck
54: Gunk Shot
60: Coil
66: Brave Bird

Decided to model the level-up pattern after Duraludon, who's another high BST single stage mon. As for specific move justifications, Confide as the early level stat-lowering move comes from how dark secrets are likely found in Venomicon's pages, Role Play references how people write plays/roleplays (as well as referencing CAP30's ability-based concept), Astonish and Spite are generally spooky moves that fit Venomicon's design, and the rest was rounded out with STAB moves. Acid Armor at Level 36 matches Duraludon learning Iron Defense at the same level.

Egg (5 total, 5 new)

Egg Groups: Amorphous

Ancient Power (Palossand)
Discharge (Stunfisk)
Knock Off (Ralts)
Mimic (Mimikyu)
Toxic (Koffing)

Three egg moves matches Duraludon's 3, which is great because that's exactly the number of required moves that I needed to be egg moves after the level-up movepool was made. However, I decided to add Ancient Power (as another Rock-type move to match Stealth Rock) and Mimic (to reference copying something down in writing) since my movepool ended up being very small.

TM (22 total, 21 new)

TM06: Fly
TM08: Hyper Beam
TM09: Giga Impact
TM14: Thunder Wave
TM21: Rest
TM24: Snore
TM25: Protect
TM30: Steel Wing
TM31: Attract
TM39: Facade
TM40: Swift
TM44: Imprison
TM47: Fake Tears
TM56: U-turn
TM57: Payback
TM74: Venoshock
TM76: Round
TM77: Hex
TM78: Acrobatics
TM92: Mystical Fire
TM95: Air Slash
TM96: Smart Strike

I was pretty conservative with the TM list, though this makes sense because most of Venomicon's required and flavor moves are TRs. For non-required additions, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are there since Duraludon learns them, Steel Wing is for Venomicon's wings, as even paper wings are still wings, Swift is a generic special move that I can easily imagine Venomicon using, Fake Tears references how writing can invoke emotion, Payback is common among Poison-types, Hex is for the same reason as Spite, Air Slash, Fly, and Acrobatics are all weaker Flying STABs, and Smart Strike references the point of Venomicon's pen and Epilogue's paper airplane. Smart Strike does specifically mention using a horn to attack, though since Togekiss and Naganadel learn it, I figured it fit here.

TR (19 total, 17 new)

TR00: Swords Dance
TR11: Psychic
TR20: Substitute
TR22: Sludge Bomb
TR26: Endure
TR27: Sleep Talk
TR34: Future Sight
TR40: Skill Swap
TR54: Toxic Spikes
TR57: Poison Jab
TR66: Brave Bird
TR67: Earth Power
TR68: Nasty Plot
TR73: Gunk Shot
TR76: Stealth Rock
TR83: Ally Switch
TR89: Hurricane
TR91: Venom Drench
TR99: Body Press

TRs are also mostly required moves, with a few flavor choices. Future Sight is on the eerier side of Psychic moves and someone can write about the future in a book. To go with Future Sight, Psychic was also added as a weaker Psychic move. Skill Swap is another reference to CAP30's ability-based concept, Toxic Spikes pairs with Stealth Rock as a hazard and adds to Venomicon's points and spikes (especially Epilogue's), half of the Poison-types that learn Psychic and are in Sword and Shield also learn Ally Switch, so it was added here, and Venom Drench makes sense since Venomicon can cover the opponent in ink.

Tutor (1 total, 1 new)

Dual Wingbeat

Dual Wingbeat comes from the fact that Venomicon has wings and none of the other tutor moves seemed to make much sense, leaving Dual Wingbeat as the only one.

Total: 57

Acid Armor
Acrobatics
Air Cutter
Air Slash
Ally Switch
Ancient Power
Astonish
Attract
Body Press
Brave Bird
Coil
Confide
Discharge
Drill Peck
Dual Wingbeat
Earth Power
Endure
Facade
Fake Tears
Fly
Future Sight
Giga Impact
Gunk Shot
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Imprison
Knock Off
Mimic
Mystical Fire
Nasty Plot
Payback
Peck
Poison Jab
Protect
Psychic
Rest
Role Play
Roost
Round
Skill Swap
Sleep Talk
Sludge Bomb
Smart Strike
Snore
Spite
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Substitute
Swift
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
U-turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock

It's probably fine, but asking for a legality check on Special Rock coverage

 

[kjnjkmjk1]

Some more legality checks:

I missed the legality check request last time, so here it is now. Physical Ground coverage above 60 BP is banned. The main method for 30i to get through Steel-types should be using Tinted Lens Flying-type attacks, particularly Brave Bird. While most special Ground coverage is already approved under Earth Power, we'll be taking an extra precaution by banning Scorching Sands. While it does miss some 2HKOs at +0/OHKOs at +2, it is still capable of nailing Tapu Koko, an important check, and the burn chance both helps neuter another check in Zeraora (which would otherwise 2HKO through Stamina) and generally adds an unneeded variable to 30b.

Scorching Sands calcs

0 SpA Crobat Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 146-174 (51.9 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 SpA Crobat Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 294-346 (104.6 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

0 SpA Crobat Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zeraora: 140-166 (44.1 - 52.3%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 SpA Crobat Scorching Sands vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zeraora: 280-330 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

After discussing with Wulfanator, we have come to the decision to ban Spikes for a few reasons. For one, it bloats the movepool unnecessarily, when this CAP already has access to Stealth Rock and potentially Toxic Spikes on top of other utility. For another, Spikes is capable of pushing certain Pokemon into OHKO range better than Stealth Rock can, and taking the ability to directly set this up out of the hands of 30i should be for the better.

Spikes calcs

+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 249-294 (70.7 - 83.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (6.3% on 2 layers)
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Tinted Lens Crobat Brave Bird vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 306-360 (72.6 - 85.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (18.8% on 2 layers)
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Arghonaut: 312-368 (75.3 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (37.5% on 2 layers, 6.3% on 1 layer)
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Toxapex: 238-282 (78.2 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (62.5% after 2 layers, 37.5% after 1 layer)

In a scenario where Slowbro loses Boots:
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Crobat Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 282-333 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes (6.3% on 2 layers)

I will also be rejecting Brian Geniouse's proposal to allow Stealth Rock to be substituted for Toxic Spikes or Spikes. These hazards have completely different functions and use cases, and it makes no sense to substitute them in the same way Acid Armor and Iron Defense (which are functionally identical, save for PP) can be substituted.

On the other hand, Bug coverage is fine. Like Grass coverage, it still has a large number of resists after Tinted Lens, and it also fails to hit both of the common Psychic-types in the meta in Tapu Lele and Slowking-Galar super effectively, so there should be no ill effects in allowing it.

Giga Drain will also be allowed. While the healing it provides could be dangerous in the hands of a boosting set, it also suffers from being Grass-type coverage and having to compete for moveslots. I think its impact shouldn't be too large.

Regarding Attract, if you choose to interpret the Pokemon as genderless, you are free to remove Attract.

Memento should be fine. Neither form is the best suicide lead, and 30i generally has better moves to slot in on hyper offense builds. Memento rarely shows up outside of these contexts.

Special Rock coverage should be fine, too. It doesn't hit much beyond Zapdos and Weavile, so adding it shouldn't have too large of an effect.

Later on will be decisions on Ghost/Dark coverage (need more time to deliberate) and the Unsure category moves from the last post (playtest started very recently, so waiting for replays).

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

So when will the voting begin

 

[Ayecrusher King]

So when will the voting begin

Probably at least after the playtesting ends and the verdict on Unsure moves are finalized.

 

[kjnjkmjk1]

So when will the voting begin

Probably at least after the playtesting ends and the verdict on Unsure moves are finalized.

The full playtest tournament won't be over for many weeks, and movepool submissions generally end long before the playtest ends. I'm planning to put out a verdict on Unsure moves in the next few days, and there will likely be a warning for the end of the thread in that post. We're still discussing some things, but for now, I'll say that the thread is likely ending sometime in the next week, after which voting will begin.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

The full playtest tournament won't be over for many weeks, and movepool submissions generally end long before the playtest ends. I'm planning to put out a verdict on Unsure moves in the next few days, and there will likely be a warning for the end of the thread in that post. We're still discussing some things, but for now, I'll say that the thread is likely ending sometime in the next week, after which voting will begin.

Maybe I don't fully understand the CAP process, but it's been 5 months since CAP 30 was first started and it's not finished yet. I don't recall past CAPs taking almost half a year to finish

 

[kjnjkmjk1]

Maybe I don't fully understand the CAP process, but it's been 5 months since CAP 30 was first started and it's not finished yet. I don't recall past CAPs taking almost half a year to finish

This process has been extended due to not only handling what is effectively multiple Pokemon, but also handling them one at a time for a number of stages, rather than simultaneously. CAP25, the previous framework CAP, started June 13, 2018, and only hit its Final Product thread on November 28, 2018, over 5 months afterward. It even had Pokedex polls going into the start of December. While CAP25 was handling three starters compared to CAP30's two forms, CAP25 also ran the stages for each Pokemon simultaneously, whereas CAP30 (the current CAP) split up certain stages for each form so that one would happen after the other (see ability and stats stages in particular). This has certainly taken a lot longer than the typical CAP process, which is closer to 4 months, but it's not that far off from our other framework CAP.

 

[kjnjkmjk1]

(Likely) final set of legality checks:

I'm banning Will-O-Wisp. As mentioned in my previous post, this move contributes to movepool bloat and generally makes 30b harder to break than it already is. I don't really see a reason to allow it.
G-Luke Gaboswampert dex Tommaniacal This is a ping to let you know about the ban, so that you can remove Will-O-Wisp from your movepools.

On the other hand, I'll be approving Light Screen, Foul Play, and both physical and special Ghost/Dark coverage (except the already-banned Poltergeist). At this point, I've come to the conclusion that Light Screen's unstackability, combined with the general lack of moves 30b would willingly run it over, make it fine to allow. Out of the standard set of Nasty Plot/Hurricane/Earth Power/Roost, the most likely to go is Nasty Plot, but that is also the move that gives it a strong niche and endgame sweeping power. For Foul Play, the initial worry about allowing 30b to deal with physical boosters more easily than it should be able to has lessened over time, especially given the start up time necessary for Stamina to become a significant issue. For physical Ghost/Dark coverage, I don't really see a reason for 30i to consider it outside of the banned Poltergeist or the required Knock Off. I've been convinced that special Ghost/Dark coverage is not as damaging as I first thought, so it will be removed from the banlist and approved.

I've also made the decision to move Discharge out of the required set of moves. The move has been heavily outcompeted by Earth Power and even Mystical Fire, to the point that it has seen very little use in the first weeks of testing. It's been a point of contention on the flavor side due to only being available to either egg moves or level-up, and some may have been swayed into using egg moves in order to fit it in comfortably. Thus, to make movepool creators' lives a little bit easier, it will be removed as a requirement.

This will also serve as a 72 hour warning before the end of the thread, assuming nothing else crops up.

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Final Submission

Level-up (13 total, 13 new)

1: Astonish
1: Confide
6: Peck
12: Spite
18: Role Play
24: Air Cutter
30: Venoshock
36: Acid Armor
42: Roost
48: Drill Peck
54: Gunk Shot
60: Coil
66: Brave Bird

Decided to model the level-up pattern after Duraludon, who's another high BST single stage mon. As for specific move justifications, Confide as the early level stat-lowering move comes from how dark secrets are likely found in Venomicon's pages, Role Play references how people write plays/roleplays (as well as referencing CAP30's ability-based concept), Astonish and Spite are generally spooky moves that fit Venomicon's design, and the rest was rounded out with STAB moves. Acid Armor at Level 36 matches Duraludon learning Iron Defense at the same level.

Egg (6 total, 6 new)

Egg Groups: Amorphous

Ancient Power (Palossand)
Discharge (Stunfisk)
Knock Off (Ralts)
Memento (Koffing)
Mimic (Mimikyu)
Toxic (Koffing)

6 Egg moves were given as 3 needed to be required moves (though Discharge was no longer required, but I still wanted to add it as another Electric move with Thunder Wave), plus a few extra flavorful moves in Mimic (referencing copying writing), Ancient Power (as another Rock move to go with Stealth Rock and referencing how the necromicon is an ancient book), and Memento (spooky Dark move and a piece of writing can act as a memento).

TM (22 total, 21 new)

TM06: Fly
TM08: Hyper Beam
TM09: Giga Impact
TM14: Thunder Wave
TM21: Rest
TM24: Snore
TM25: Protect
TM30: Steel Wing
TM31: Attract
TM39: Facade
TM40: Swift
TM44: Imprison
TM47: Fake Tears
TM56: U-turn
TM57: Payback
TM74: Venoshock
TM76: Round
TM77: Hex
TM78: Acrobatics
TM92: Mystical Fire
TM95: Air Slash
TM96: Smart Strike

I was pretty conservative with the TM list, though this makes sense because most of Venomicon's required and flavor moves are TRs. For non-required additions, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are there since Duraludon learns them, Steel Wing is for Venomicon's wings, as even paper wings are still wings, Swift is a generic special move that I can easily imagine Venomicon using, Fake Tears references how writing can invoke emotion, Payback is common among Poison-types, Hex is for the same reason as Spite, Air Slash, Fly, and Acrobatics are all weaker Flying STABs, and Smart Strike references the point of Venomicon's pen and Epilogue's paper airplane. Smart Strike does specifically mention using a horn to attack, though since Togekiss and Naganadel learn it, I figured it fit here.

TR (20 total, 18 new)

TR00: Swords Dance
TR11: Psychic
TR20: Substitute
TR22: Sludge Bomb
TR26: Endure
TR27: Sleep Talk
TR34: Future Sight
TR40: Skill Swap
TR54: Toxic Spikes
TR57: Poison Jab
TR66: Brave Bird
TR67: Earth Power
TR68: Nasty Plot
TR73: Gunk Shot
TR76: Stealth Rock
TR81: Foul Play
TR83: Ally Switch
TR89: Hurricane
TR91: Venom Drench
TR99: Body Press

TRs are also mostly required moves, with a few flavor choices. Future Sight is on the eerier side of Psychic moves and someone can write about the future in a book. To go with Future Sight, Psychic was also added as a weaker Psychic move. Skill Swap is another reference to CAP30's ability-based concept, Toxic Spikes pairs with Stealth Rock as a hazard and adds to Venomicon's points and spikes (especially Epilogue's), half of the Poison-types that learn Psychic and are in Sword and Shield also learn Ally Switch, so it was added here, and Venom Drench makes sense since Venomicon can cover the opponent in ink.

Tutor (1 total, 1 new)

Dual Wingbeat

Dual Wingbeat comes from the fact that Venomicon has wings and none of the other tutor moves seemed to make much sense, leaving Dual Wingbeat as the only one.

Total: 59

Acid Armor
Acrobatics
Air Cutter
Air Slash
Ally Switch
Ancient Power
Astonish
Attract
Body Press
Brave Bird
Coil
Confide
Discharge
Drill Peck
Dual Wingbeat
Earth Power
Endure
Facade
Fake Tears
Fly
Foul Play
Future Sight
Giga Impact
Gunk Shot
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Imprison
Knock Off
Memento
Mimic
Mystical Fire
Nasty Plot
Payback
Peck
Poison Jab
Protect
Psychic
Rest
Role Play
Roost
Round
Skill Swap
Sleep Talk
Sludge Bomb
Smart Strike
Snore
Spite
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Substitute
Swift
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
U-turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock

 

[Cratersmash]

Final Submission

Level-Up(17 total,17 new)

1-Poison Sting
1-Peck
4-Withdraw
8-Poison Tail
12-Pluck
16-Leer
20-Imprison
24-Swords Dance
24-Nasty Plot
24-Acid Armor
28-Toxic
32-Air Slash
36-Poison Jab
42-Drill Peck
46-Roost
52-Brave Bird
56-Coil

Egg(2 total,2 new)

Egg Group-Amorphous
Discharge(Pincurchin)
Knock Off(Ralts(Chain-Breed))

TM(24 total,23 new)

TM06-Fly
TM07-Pin Missile
TM08-Hyper Beam
TM09-Giga Impact
TM10-Magical Leaf
TM14-Thunder Wave
TM18-Reflect
TM21-Rest
TM24-Snore
TM25-Protect
TM28-Giga Drain
TM30-Steel Wing
TM31-Attract
TM33-Rain Dance
TM34-Sunny Day
TM39-Facade
TM44-Imprison
TM56-U-Turn
TM58-Assurance
TM71-Hex
TM73-Cross Poison
TM74-Venoshock
TM76-Round
TM92-Mystical Fire

TR(16 Total,12 new)

TR00-Swords Dance
TR20-Substitute
TR22-Sludge Bomb
TR26-Endure
TR27-Sleep Talk
TR57-Poison Jab
TR58-Dark Pulse
TR66-Brave Bird
TR67-Earth Power
TR68-Nasty Plot
TR73-Gunk Shot
TR76-Stealth Rock
TR78-Sludge Wave
TR89-Hurricane
TR91-Venom Drench
TR99-Body Press

Tutor(1 total,1 new)

Dual Wingbeat

Event(4 total,2 new)

Venomicon @ Mystery Ink
Ability: Stamina
- Octazooka
- Brave Bird
- Apple Acid
- Mystical Fire

Total:57

Acid Armor
Air Slash
Apple Acid
Assurance
Attract
Body Press
Brave Bird
Coil
Cross Poison
Dark Pulse
Discharge
Drill Peck
Earth Power
Endure
Facade
Fly
Giga Drain
Giga Impact
Gunk Shot
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Imprison
Knock Off
Leer
Magical Leaf
Mystical Fire
Nasty Plot
Octazooka
Peck
Pin Missile
Pluck
Poison Jab
Poison Sting
Poison Tail
Protect
Rain Dance
Reflect
Rest
Roost
Round
Sleep Talk
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Snore
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Substitute
Sunny Day
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Toxic
U-Turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock
Withdraw

 

[Ayecrusher King]

Final Submission

Level-Up (18 Total, 18 New)

1: Poison Sting
1: Twister
4: Astonish
8: Mimic
12: Acid Spray
16: Iron Defense
20: Air Cutter
24: Knock Off
28: Toxic
32: Poison Jab
36: Roost
40: Air Slash
44: Coil
48: Nasty Plot
52: Drill Peck
56: Sludge Bomb
60: Hurricane
64: Memento

Rationale

Designed around Rotom, Polteageist and other form changing Pokemon, and meta-wise, a sentient tome brought to life with dangerous, forbidden power. Every move is learnt every 4 levels - not just because four is unlucky -but also because this is the fourth Gen VIII CAP.
-Twister: I know most would think Gust should be the weaker version of Air Cutter, but I personally think Twister, as according to Poketuber Lockstin, is basically the same but with Dragon magic. And well, Venomicon is definitely designed with a sinister magical vibe, so the flinching part also makes sense.
-Astonish: Wouldn't you flinch if the magic book suddenly came to life?
-Acid Spray: It's firing its hazardous ink.
-Iron Defense: Chosen over Acid Armor as according to its description, Acid Armor liquefies the user, and I think that solidifying its ink would be better reasoning.
Memento: The forbidden knowledge you were never meant to know - the reader is overwhelmed physically/Physical and mentally/Special.

Egg Moves (0 Total, 0 New)

Egg Group: Amorphous
Personally, I view Venomicon as genderless, akin to Electrode, Starmie and Polteageist, who also don't have access to Attract.

TMs (33 Total, 32 New)

TM06: Fly
TM08: Hyper Beam
TM09: Giga Impact
TM10: Magical Leaf
TM14: Thunder Wave
TM21: Rest
TM24: Snore
TM25: Protect
TM30: Steel Wing
TM32: Sandstorm
TM33: Rain Dance
TM34: Sunny Day
TM35: Hail
TM39: Facade
TM40: Swift
TM44: Imprison
TM46: Weather Ball
TM56: U-turn
TM58: Assurance
TM69: Psycho Cut
TM74: Venoshock
TM76: Round
TM77: Hex
TM78: Acrobatics
TM85: Snarl
TM86: Phantom Force
TM88: Grassy Terrain
TM89: Misty Terrain
TM90: Electric Terrain
TM91: Psychic Terrain
TM92: Mystical Fire
TM93: Eerie Impulse
TM95: Air Slash

Rationale

-Magical Leaf: Enchants its pages to strike the target. Pages are made of paper, paper is made from plants, and also a reference to 'loose leaf paper'. This was chosen alongside Leaf Storm to contrast with Kartana, also a 'paper' Pokemon, but who is less magical and thus I shifted towards Special Grass moves with Leaf in the name.
-Swift: Generic magic spell.
-Steel Wing: Toss up between this and Smart Strike; the latter's description specifically states 'The user stabs the target with a sharp horn.', and I sure don't see a horn anywhere.
-Weather and Terrain moves: Another toss-up between them and the Room/Swap moves(owning to the amount of moveslots). In the end, I feel like Venomicon would use its psychic powers to materialize the context of the words from its ink, think like the books from the Goosebumps films.
-Weather Ball: Hey, it can summon Weather, why not give it another 'spell' to take advantage?
-Psycho Cut: Alongside Psyshock, materalises its psychic powers to attack.
-Phantom Force: It uses its powers to travel through dimensions.
-Eerie Impulse: Same voltage as Thunder Wave, I'm guessing.

TRs (26 Total, 21 New)

TR00: Swords Dance
TR13: Metronome
TR19: Tri Attack
TR20: Substitute
TR22: Sludge Bomb
TR25: Psyshock
TR26: Endure
TR27: Sleep Talk
TR35: Uproar
TR45: Muddy Water
TR46: Iron Defense
TR54: Toxic Spikes
TR57: Poison Jab
TR61: Bug Buzz
TR62: Dragon Pulse
TR66: Brave Bird
TR67: Earth Power
TR68: Nasty Plot
TR71: Leaf Storm
TR73: Gunk Shot
TR76: Stealth Rock
TR81: Foul Play
TR89: Hurricane
TR91: Venom Drench
TR92: Dazzling Gleam
TR99: Body Press

Rationale

-Metronome: Materializing its ink to use a move.
-Tri Attack: Stronger spell.
-Toxic Spikes: Discarding its sharp nibs to the ground.
-Psyshock: Alongside Psycho Cut, which Venomicon materializes its psychic power to attack.
-Heat Crash: Don't try burning this book, it'll gladly set itself on fire before smacking you!
-Uproar: Goes on a furious tirade, materializing the words on its pages to make sure everyone is listening. Days of boring lectures by the old scary professors, anyone?
-Muddy Water: Its ink is diluted from the sheer volume.
-Bug Buzz: The flapping of its pages would be magnified, plus the old "bookworm into book-butterfly" joke, even if its not actually a Bug-type.
-Dragon Pulse: Even though Dark Pulse is no longer axed, this should be better balancing.
-Leaf Storm: Shreds many of its pages at the target. Drops SpA, since Venomicon is now lacking many of its contents. This was chosen alongside Magical Leaf in contrast to Kartana, also a 'paper' Pokemon, but who is less magical and thus I shifted towards Special Grass moves with Leaf in the name.
-Dazzling Gleam: Fairy magic!

Tutor Moves (3 Total, 3 New)

Terrain Pulse
Dual Wingbeat
Lash Out

Rationale

-Terrain Pulse: Same boat as Weather Ball.
-Dual Wingbeat: Do you really need to ask?
-Lash Out: Sinister magical book throwing a tantrum over being debuffed.

Total (74)

Acid Spray
Acrobatics
Air Cutter
Air Slash
Assurance
Astonish
Body Press
Brave Bird
Bug Buzz
Coil
Dazzling Gleam
Dragon Pulse
Drill Peck
Dual Wingbeat
Earth Power
Eerie Impulse
Electric Terrain
Endure
Facade
Fly
Foul Play
Giga Impact
Grassy Terrain
Gunk Shot
Hail
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Imprison
Iron Defense
Knock Off
Lash Out
Leaf Storm
Magical Leaf
Memento
Metronome
Mimic
Misty Terrain
Muddy Water
Mystical Fire
Nasty Plot
Phantom Force
Poison Jab
Poison Sting
Protect
Psychic Terrain
Psycho Cut
Psyshock
Rain Dance
Rest
Roost
Round
Sandstorm
Sleep Talk
Sludge Bomb
Snarl
Snore
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Substitute
Sunny Day
Swift
Sword Dance
Terrain Pulse
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Tri Attack
Twister
Uproar
U-Turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock
Weather Ball

 

[Bloopyghost]

Could I squeeze in one more legality check? Seeing as Discharge is now unrequired due to EP and Mystical being more useful, are we cool with unbanning Electric coverage higher than 80 BP?

 

[kjnjkmjk1]

Could I squeeze in one more legality check? Seeing as Discharge is now unrequired due to EP and Mystical being more useful, are we cool with unbanning Electric coverage higher than 80 BP?

The original reasoning for this ban was to prevent Electric coverage from outdoing Mystical Fire versus Steel Birds. That hasn't changed, and I'd like to save reevaluation of this for the post-play lookback because of the competitive implications this could have, so this ban will not be lifted.

 

[Gaboswampert]

Final Submission

Level-up (16 Total, 16 New)

01: Poison Sting
01: Gust
04: Leer
08: Fury Attack
12: Imprison
16: Air Cutter
20: Acid Armor
24: Knock Off
28: Sludge
32: Coil
36: Air Slash
40: Nasty Plot
44: Poison Jab
48: Drill Peck
52: Roost
56: Toxic

Reasons of non-bold moves

It can possibly use poison sting with his face, dusty book throwing dust to create a gust/it just flaps his wings to create a gust, with leer, it has has a cool eye, also, read is leer in spanish, no one asked but there it is, same reason of poison sting with fury attack, also, a lot of flying types/mons with stings have it, air cutter same reason of gust and you can cut yourself with paper, it has "sludge" all over his body, it can posibly throw it, air slash is the same reason of air cutter

Egg Moves (0 Total, 0 New)

Egg Group(s): Undiscovered
Its a book.

TMs (25 Total, 23 New)

TM06 Fly
TM08 Hyper Beam
TM09 Giga Impact
TM10 Magical Leaf
TM14 Thunder Wave
TM18 Reflect
TM19 Safeguard
TM21 Rest
TM24 Snore
TM25 Protect
TM27 Icy Wind
TM39 Facade
TM44 Imprison
TM56 U-Turn
TM57 Payback
TM60 Power Swap
TM61 Guard Swap
TM70 Trick Room
TM72 Magic Room
TM74 Venoshock
TM76 Round
TM77 Hex
TM79 Retaliate
TM92 Mystical Fire
TM95 Air Slash

Reasons of non-bold moves

It can fly, it can probably shoot a big lazer and go rlly fast and tackle you... hard, it can probably use pages of himself like magical leafs, with reflect it can close/use a spell, with safeguard, it can close/also use a spell, dusty book that throws dusty ice wind, payback is same as giga impact but this time is angry, power swap is like a spell, same with guard swap, and with trick room, and with magic room, venoshock is same as sludge, hex could be like, a dark spell or something like that, retaliate is same as with giga impact and payback, but this time vengeful

TRs (18 Total, 16 New)

TR00 Swords Dance
TR05 Ice Beam
TR20 Substitute
TR22 Sludge Bomb
TR26 Endure
TR27 Sleep Talk
TR33 Shadow Ball
TR57 Poison Jab
TR58 Dark Pulse
TR66 Brave Bird
TR67 Earth Power
TR68 Nasty Plot
TR73 Gunk Shot
TR76 Stealth Rock
TR78 Sludge Wave
TR89 Hurricane
TR91 Venom Drench
TR99 Body Press

Reasons of non-bold moves

Ice beam like a spell, shadow ball, like a dark spell, same with dark pulse, sludge wave is same with sludge and sludge bomb, and same with venom drench

Tutor (2 Total, 2 New)

Lash Out
Dual Wingbeat

This one i dont even have to use the hide thing, with lash out its just payback but its more angry and dual wingbeat... it just attacks flapping his wings

Total: 57

Acid Armor
Air Cutter
Air Slash
Body Press
Brave Bird
Coil
Dark Pulse
Drill Peck
Dual Wingbeat
Earth Power
Endure
Facade
Fly
Fury Attack
Giga Impact
Guard Swap
Gunk Shot
Gust
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Ice Beam
Icy Wind
Imprison
Knock Off
Magical Leaf
Magic Room
Mirror Coat
Mystical Fire
Nasty Plot
Lash Out
Leer
Payback
Poison Jab
Poison Sting
Power Swap
Protect
Psyshock
Reflect
Rest
Round
Safeguard
Shadow Ball
Snore
Sleep Talk
Sludge
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Stealth Rock
Substitute
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Trick Room
U-Turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock

 

[G-Luke]

Final Submission

I abandoned my "Legendary Status" figure when it became obvious that users were not feeling it, so I redesigned it's movepool with it being a "special" object Pokémon in mind.

Level-up (17 Total, 17 New)

1 - Gust
1 - Leer
4 - Acid
8 - Peck
12 - Air Cutter
16 - Hex
20 - Magic Coat
24 - Air Slash
28 - Mind Reader
32 - Roost
36 - Drill Peck
40 - Future Sight
44 - Acid Armor
48 - Venoshock
52 - Coil
56 - Hurricane
60 - Toxic

The flavor profile that I am approaching for Venomicon is that of a book of all emcompassing knowledge, but trying to obtain its knowledge leads one down to a dark path. The presense of moves like Hex and Magic Coat are ties to it's spell-like properties, while Mind Reader and Future Sight are a fun way to tie into gaining absolute knowledge. It gaining the bulk of it's Poison typed moves at a lower level lends to the idea of the reader being slowly intoxicated to its forbidden knowledge, capping it off with Toxic itself, fully embracing it's foul end.

Egg Moves (4 Total, 4 New)

Egg Group(s): Amorphous, Flying
Extrasensory (Noctowl)
Knock Off (Gardevoir [Chain Bred from Machop])
Memento (Weezing)
Defog (Corviknight)

I placed the Pokémon in Amorphous and Flying egg group to highlight both its peculiar shape and form with its aerodynamic tendencies. Knock Off is required and seems more egg like than anywhere else, and the rest exist to supplement its Psychic and menacing flavor. Defog is just a fun reminder that this does bird things.

TMs (28 Total, 26 New)

TM06: Fly
TM08: Hyper Beam
TM10: Magical Leaf
TM14: Thunder Wave
TM19: Safeguard
TM21: Rest
TM24: Snore
TM25: Protect
TM26: Scary Face
TM30: Steel Wing
TM39: Facade
TM40: Swift
TM44: Imprison
TM56: U-turn
TM57: Payback
TM58: Assurance
TM60: Power Swap
TM61: Guard Swap
TM70: Trick Room
TM72: Magic Room
TM73: Cross Poison
TM74: Venoshock
TM76: Round
TM77: Hex
TM78: Acrobatics
TM79: Retaliate
TM92: Mystical Fire
TM95: Air Slash

These moves are just more flavor + some required add-ons.

TRs (23 Total, 21 New)

TR00: Swords Dance
TR13: Focus Energy
TR20: Substitute
TR22: Sludge Bomb
TR25: Psyshock
TR26: Endure
TR27: Sleep Talk
TR33: Shadow Ball
TR34: Future Sight
TR54: Toxic Spikes
TR57: Poison Jab
TR58: Dark Pulse
TR66: Brave Bird
TR67: Earth Power
TR68: Nasty Plot
TR73: Gunk Shot
TR76: Stealth Rock
TR78: Sludge Wave
TR81: Foul Play
TR85: Work Up
TR89: Hurricane
TR91: Venom Drench
TR99: Body Press

More or less the same thing here, we add in some requireds and spruce us up with our STAB moves of choice.

Tutor (2 Total, 2 New)

Dual Wingbeat
Lash Out

Total Moves: 69

Acid
Acid Armor
Acrobatics
Air Cutter
Air Slash
Assurance
Body Press
Brave Bird
Coil
Cross Poison
Dark Pulse
Defog
Drill Peck
Dual Wingbeat
Earth Power
Endure
Extrasensory
Facade
Fly
Focus Energy
Foul Play
Future Sight
Guard Swap
Gunk Shot
Gust
Hex
Hurricane
Hyper Beam
Imprison
Knock Off
Lash Out
Leer
Magic Coat
Magic Room
Magical Leaf
Memento
Mind Reader
Mystical Fire
Nasty Plot
Payback
Peck
Poison Jab
Power Swap
Protect
Psyshock
Rest
Retaliate
Roost
Round
Safeguard
Scary Face
Shadow Ball
Sleep Talk
Sludge Bomb
Sludge Wave
Snore
Stealth Rock
Steel Wing
Substitute
Swift
Swords Dance
Thunder Wave
Toxic
Toxic Spikes
Trick Room
U-turn
Venom Drench
Venoshock
Work Up

 

[Wulfanator]

With the holiday here, many of us are spending time with family and loved ones. This makes it difficult to fulfill project obligations since we are not all in a convenient place to address these needs the way they ought to. In order to alleviate some of the stress on our schedules, I have decided to extend the deadline an additional 48 hours from this post. For those that missed the initial deadline, your submissions will be eligible for legality review (just remember to write "final submission") and it gives submitters one final chance to tweak their submissions if they desire. Happy holidays!

 

[Brambane]

requesting legality check on Hypnosis, since the move definitely has competitive implications alongside Coil on 30i

 

[kjnjkmjk1]

requesting legality check on Hypnosis, since the move definitely has competitive implications alongside Coil on 30i

After talking with the TLT, I've decided to ban Hypnosis. As Brambane pointed out, it becomes potentially dangerous in combination with Coil, since the accuracy boost allows Hypnosis to become much more reliable and provide 30i with enough time to reach overwhelming levels.
Bloopyghost G-Luke Please remove Hypnosis from your movepools.

 

[Quanyails]

Disqualifications:

• Dex: Level-up attacks are not ordered by base power (Drill Peck, Cross Poison)
• 1BluLizard: Mandatory move not included (Snore), level-up attacks are not ordered by base power (Poison Jab, Air Slash)
• Bloopyghost: Level-up attacks are not ordered by base power (Astonish, Poison Sting)
• Ayecrusher King: Level-up attacks are not ordered by base power (Twister, Astonish) (Air Slash, Poison Jab)
• G-Luke: Level-up attacks are not ordered by base power (Peck, Acid/Gust) (Air Slash, Venoshock) (Future Sight, Hurricane)

Everyone else moves onto poll 1!