CAP 35 - Part 8 - Secondary Ability Discussion

[quziel]

CAP 35 So Far


Please pay very close attention to Earthflax's posts during this thread and remain on topic. DO NOT begin by posting massive lists of abilities!

Some general rules for this discussion:

• Custom abilities are banned. No exceptions. Posts suggesting custom abilities will be deleted.
• There are ability banlists for the different stages of ability discussion. Posts suggesting banned abilities will be deleted.
• Flavor abilities do not have any place in this thread. Do not bring up flavor reasoning. Posts that rely on flavor reasoning will be deleted.

The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Fully Banned Abilities group

Arena Trap
As One
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Beads Of Ruin
Beast Boost *
Chilling Neigh
Commander
Dark Aura
Dauntless Shield
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Disguise
Dragon's Maw
Fairy Aura
Flower Gift
Forecast
Full Metal Body
Grim Neigh
Gulp Missile
Hadron Engine
Hunger Switch
Ice Face
Illusion
Imposter
Intrepid Sword
Moody
Multitype
Neuroforce
Orichalcum Pulse
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Prism Armor
Protosynthesis *
Quark Drive *
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Shield
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Soul Heart
Stance Change
Sword Of Ruin
Tablets Of Ruin
Teravolt
Transistor
Turboblaze
Unseen Fist
Vessel Of Ruin
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode
Zero To Hero

* These abilities will only be unbanned on a concept which is based around this ability - Such as an Ultra Beast or Paradox Pokemon

Soft Banned Abilities group

These abilities are banned by default and should not be discussed barring exceptional cases. If you believe one of these abilities should be considered, you can make a post trying to explain why an exception is warranted in this specific case and if both the TL and Ability Leader agree, it will be allowed. If the TLT disagrees with the unbanning proposal, they should be considered fully banned and should not be further discussed.

Bulletproof
Color Change*
Defeatist
Dry Skin
Earth Eater
Flash Fire
Fur Coat
Good As Gold
Gorilla Tactics
Huge Power
Ice Scales
Libero*
Levitate
Lightning Rod
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Magnet Pull
Mimicry*
Motor Drive
Parental Bond
Protean*
Pure Power
Purifying Salt
Regenerator
Sap Sipper
Slow Start
Stall
Storm Drain
Truant
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb
Water Bubble
Well Baked Body
Wind Rider

*These abilities can only be considered for an unban if the Ability stage is done before typing.

Secondary Ability ban group

Comatose
Drizzle
Drought
Electric Surge
Fluffy
Grassy Surge
Innards Out
Misty Surge
Prankster
Psychic Surge
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steam Engine
Supreme Overlord
Toxic Debris
Triage

Flavor ability only ban group

Ball Fetch
Battery
Costar
Friend Guard
Healer
Honey Gather
Illuminate
Pickup
Power Spot
Power of Alchemy
Propeller Tail
Receiver
Run Away
Stalwart
Symbiosis
Telepathy

-----

Primary Ability banlist

Fully Banned Abilities group + Soft Banned Abilities group + flavor ability-only group

Secondary Ability banlist

Fully Banned Abilities group + Soft Banned Abilities group + secondary ability group + flavor ability-only group

Flavor Ability banlist

Primary ability group + secondary ability group

-----

Ability banlist PRC threads:

• US/UM: http://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/7391668
• SW/SH: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3659245/
• S/V: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3715273/

 

[Earthflax]

Well, well, well. We meet again. Y'all know the drill, let's roll right into the questions. These are fairly self-explanatory, so I feel comfortable asking them without much detail. Don't disappoint me ;).

1. Is a second ability necessary? Does it add anything?
2. How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?
3. What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary?

Please stay on topic and keep in mind ability suggestions aren't being accepted yet. I'll say 48 hours for these questions. Let's have a great stage, yall.

 

[AzothBend]

Just a few quick thoughts while they're at top of mind; combined they should somewhat answer the questions posed. I'll have more thoughts once discussion is actually underway.

This stage finds CAP35 in a weird spot. After a somewhat contentious primary ability stage we return to secondary now having a definitive stat spread. We should proceed very carefully. As was previously noted, Electromorphosis is not an inherently defensive ability. Many will want to alleviate that here. There's some concern that this could become a redux of primary ability now that we have a clearer idea of how 35 will function with its given stats.
For that reason, inherently strong and defensive abilities should be off the table. Runners up from the previous stat poll is probably a good place to start. That may mean we restrict this stage to other offensive abilities or weaker defensive abilities, or skip it altogether.

 

[Reviloja753]

I will say that I personally am not sure if we need a secondary ability; Electromorphosis is in fact a very strong and defining ability for CAP35 and we may not need anything else. That does not mean I exactly oppose a secondary ability. However, I feel that if we do end up giving a secondary ability, it should meet two requirements.

1. The secondary ability should be explicitly defensively-oriented. Electromorphosis is an inherently offensive ability; therefore, any similarly offensive ability will by default either outclass or be outclassed by it. The only way a secondary gets used is if it does something fundamentally different for CAP35 than Electromorphosis.

2. The secondary ability should have enough of an impact on its match-ups to justify its usage over Electromorphosis in some scenarios. This is obviously harder to define, but I would like to, if possible, avoid just throwing on a secondary that does essentially nothing when we could have just given a NCA. This kind of goes without saying, but if we can't find an ability which makes a meaningful impact, then there is not really any point in giving a secondary ability.

 

[Scepticskep]

1. Is a second ability necessary? Does it add anything?

I wouldn't be opposed to a secondary ability. Electromorphosis is an incredibly interesting tool that provides CAP 35 agency when on the field rather than being overtly passive. However, this boost in response to damage is not a make or break for CAP 35's agency: our final stat spread is built around our high HP and mixed bulk, spreading paralysis through Glare, and our access to BoltBeam coverage with moderate special attack. As a result, Electromorphosis is far from the only tool we have defensively, and I believe there are more avenues for CAP 35 to explore with a new ability. However, Electromorphosis still provides an immense amount of unique value that goes very well with our contradictory typing and a secondary ability should not overshadow this unique value. Namely, no ability from the Primary Ability slate should be considered as a Secondary Ability. Every ability from that original slate was extremely distinct in how it influenced CAP 35's role, and none of them mesh with the stat spread we've arrived on.

1. How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?

The most obvious answer, as echoed earlier, is that a secondary ability for CAP 35 should be explicitly defensive. I personally disagree with the mindset that Electromorphosis is exclusively offensive, as it provides a pokemon a reason to stay in and take damage. However, it is certainly unconventional for a defensive ability, so I think a secondary ability should be a standard, common defensive ability and/or pivot CAP 35 from a bulky tank to a clear cut wall. I can also see an ability that interacts with the defensive aspects of CAP 35 (high HP, paralysis, etc.) being distinct compared to Electromorph which only interacts with Electric STAB options.

1. What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary?

As I touched on in the first question, a secondary ability on CAP 35 should not overshadow Electromorphosis's unique utility in teambuilding in most cases, but it should be justifiable to be used occasionally and allow CAP 35's other defensive utility to shine.

 

[Faux Focalors Furina]

1. Is a second ability necessary? Does it add anything?
While I don't think a second ability is necessary, although I am not opposed to one as I believe it does add something to CAP 35 after I checked out the most of the final submissions for CAP 35's art. Most of the final art submissions are based on animals (mammals specifically) and even more noticeably, are usually furry/full of fur/wool ( especially likes the Alpaca sheep scientist one). So while my suggestion for the second ability could be for flavour wise to some people, it is usable in the competitive scene as a sidegrade to make CAP35 be a bulky wall but for the price of damage dealing being (not too low) but noticeably low compared to Electromorphosis. Basically making CAP35 be a bit passive for the price of bulk. Having a secondary also adds an option for CAP35 to be in a variety of playstyles like HO, BO, Stall (and the very niche Trick Room). And not be stuck into only one playstyle like CAP34 Chuggalong being mostly stuck in HO. Not to diss on Chuggalong though it is good just not as flexible.

2. How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?
Echoing back from the first question. By making CAP35 be a bulky wall but for the price of damage dealing a bit. And with a second ability could help utilize it's status moves more (like the expected paralysis moves) and to be able to pivot without needing to worry about it's health being depleted.

3. What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary?
Most likely not as high as electromorphosis since we're chasing for a more defensive oriented ability but we can make it close if we really wanted to, but we must always make sure it's power level won't topple the primary one due to balancing reasons and to not ruin the purpose of a "primary ability".

EDIT: Forgot to mention my suggestion of secondary ability.
EDIT2: Removed suggestion for secondary ability in this post

 

[a fairy]

Is a second ability necessary? Does it add anything?

Necessary? No. Absolutely not necessary. E.sis is fine and will provide CAP35 with the ability to avoid being a momentum sink as it accomplishes its walling tasks. Does it add anything? Yeah, absolutely. We have an offensive ability on a defensive Pokemon, meaning we can't rely on ability at all to provide walling assistance. I'm unsure if there are things we'd be able to wall better with an ability that we want to be walling better, but when the ability is in an entirely different toolbox, it might help to have something in our defensive toolbox when it comes to ability. That said, I'm unsure if we need it. Also - E.sis is a fairly telegraphed ability if alone, and may result in its reduced effectiveness if it's always seen coming. I don't think this is actually a viable reason to justify a secondary ability, but having a reasonable doubt as to CAP35's ability could give CAP35 more opportunities to act on E.sis.

How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?

It's surely a defensive ability, right? Not something major or overwhelming, but something that a player can use if they're worried that their CAP35 might be a touch too defensively struggling in certain team compositions, or against specific threats. I don't know what that is necessarily, but something that would allow it to have an extra tool in the belt when handling certain 'mons its intended to wall. Imagine being super weak to <'mon that CAP35 can handle>, but then having to worry about its ability to consistently do that - a defensive ability of some sort could help let it handle said 'mon more consistently over time.

What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary?

I can't imagine it'd be too terribly high. It should be an ability worth picking up, but perhaps not one that would be at 50-50 with E.sis, or worse, outright better. I don't know what the ability would be, there were plenty of obvious options that were passed up in Primary polls that shouldn't be returned to, but perhaps something like Inner Focus or Immunity (as an example of power level of ability) could be of value - the defensive utility of avoiding flinch-hax or death by Poison could be worth considering, if say, CAP35 was particularly worried about Jirachi (in Gen4 particularly) or the effects of Toxic Spikes/other forms of Poison.

 

[koista12]

Is a second ability necessary?

Ive always found this question to be odd. No, of course a strong secondary ability isn't necessary. I can't think of a CAP process where a strong secondary was necessary to successfully implement the concept we've decided upon. Maybe one day CAP will vote for "two strong abilities" as a concept in itself, and then it will be necessary.

Does it add anything?

Yes, of course. A mon with two good abilities is better than an identical mon with only one of those abilities.

But more specifically, if the question is "Do we think that CAP35, with the stats, defining moves, typing and primary ability that we have already chosen, would benefit from another useful ability in executing its concept?", then I also think the answer is yes.

From what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), there's been a small amount of worry in the Discord that Electromorphosis is not amazing for a special wall with our type. Our concept is "a special wall with a typing that isn't particularly amazing for a special wall". We have a generally bulky statline, a somewhat awkward typing, an ability that greatly improves our offensive prowess, while not helping us one bit defensively, and a moveset that will make us rather adept at spreading paralysis. Anyone who is worried that Electromorphosis isn't a helpful enough ability should be pushing for a strong secondary ability.

I think that Electromorphosis is a great ability to be honest. It's not as impactful as Regenerator or Good as Gold, but its still useful. I'm somewhat puzzled by the replies that demand our secondary ability be less useful than Electromorphosis. This isn't a Hemogoblin or Chuggalong. We do not have an incredibly strong ability that synergizes with our stats/typing/moves. The synergy with Electromorphosis is that we get more power on STAB moves that we would be clicking anyways. A great benefit, but not process defining. There is surely room for another strong ability alongside Electromorphosis that can help us excel in our chosen role.

How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?

As everyone above has noted, a strong defensive ability would be nice. However, I think utility abilities could also be considered. I'll get more specific when the thread moves to submissions, but look at something like Excadrill in Gen 5 and 6, where Sand Force / Sand Rush is an offensive ability, while Mold Breaker provides utility.

What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary?

I don't think Electromorphosis is really all that "powerful" an ability on a mon with 90 SpA. It's great, don't get me wrong, providing a solid oomph to our Electric STAB, but we don't have world-ending amounts of power. We're a defensive pokemon with an offensive ability, and we're also a defensive pokemon with an iffy typing. I think there's plenty of space in the power budget for some pretty good secondary abilities. We obviously shouldn't be handing out Regenerator or Magic Bounce at this stage, but I dont see a reason to restrict ourselves to mediocre abilities like Aroma Veil or Sticky Hold. Again, more on this later when we get to submissions.

 

[TheDuckChris]

How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?

In the event that a secondary ability is chosen, it's important to note that any spread without Electromorphis will have a slightly different role. Offensive benchmarks like being able to 2hko Kingambit and OHKO venomicon will no longer apply, as well as the comfortable 2hko on Gholdengo.

With access to Glare, it is likely that any spread without Electromorphis would lean even heavier into walling and status moves, only being able to pick off particularly weakened threats. With that in mind, an ability that improves or at least synergizes will with that defensive role should be prioritized. Could be helping status moves land, lending some situational recovery, or dissuading opposing hits.

As for power level I think the main concern would be overshadowing the primary ability to the point that the defensive role becomes the primary niche. So it should help this role in a smaller way but one that has to be worth using over Electromorphis on some teams.

 

[Imw0rstadP0keM0n]

Is a second ability necessary?

No.

Does it add anything?

Yes. CAP 35s ability, stat allocation, and movepool, lead to a fairly one-note design (e.g, try to hit with supercharged Electric STABs, punish incoming ground swaps with either a chunky Ice Beam or Glare.) A secondary ability, particularly a defensive ability that helps stop enemy momentum would help CAP 35 stay unexpected. Of particular note, Electromorphosis both requires us to invest offensively, and expects us to eat enemy hits. My preference would be for a second ability that flips that expectation on its' head, rewarding us for defensive investment and expecting us to evade enemy attacks as much as possible.

I also think our secondary ability should prioritize Glare sets over Ice Beam. Why? Electromorphosis + 98 SpA heavily rewards us for nailing strong Ground types like Gliscor, Lando-T, and Great Tusk with massive damage over crippling them with Glare. Its going to be very difficult to fit Glare on sets that run TBolt/Discharge, 50% Recovery, Knock Off, and Ice Beam. Losing Knock Off destroys our matchup into Gholdengo/Dragapult, someone we're intending on at least checking if not countering the two of them, so our main choice is whether we want to run Ice Beam or Glare. I suspect the offensive prowess of Electromorphosis sets will prefer Ice Beam as it keeps enemy switches at baited breath (e.g, do I U-turn into Gliscor and get tapped by a massive Ice Beam, or do I U-turn into Moltres and die to an electromorphosis TBolt?) Without Ice Beam, the answer becomes far more clear, switch into a pokemon that can eat an electromorphosis move or two and doesn't mind being statused' (e.g, Glowking, Blissey)

Without Electromorphosis, Ice Beam becomes far more detrimental than TBolt ever would be to most cores, therefore the choice becomes far less polarizing. Glare being far more important on those sets since it forces progress in a non-damaging way.

How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?

Like I touched on, Electromorphosis/Ice Beam works best as a mind-game. Our secondary ability can soften that in exchange either for more defensive prowess or, preferable, to act as a momentum sink for our opponents' gameplan much like Glare already acts.

What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary?

Equal or Lesser most likely. Electromorphosis is an incredibly strong, cool, and unique ability and I'd hate to see CAP 35 pull a Crescidon and ignore it's primary ability in favor of its' secondary.

Of note, some of the lower power abilities suggested in Part 4 (our primary ability discussion) might be of particular interest to us, particularly those that impact our defensive/utility usage.

---

Also, Earthflax, this is part 9, no? Part 8 was spread submissions.

 

[Amamama]

Is a second ability necessary? Does it add anything?

A second ability is never really necessary.
Given Emorphs offensive nature however, a defensive leaning ability (one that improves the defensive profile of 35 or adds means of progress other than attacking moves) would definitely add something positive without realistically encroaching on Emorph builds.

How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?

I believe a secondary ability should a) lean defensively. That way it doesn't step on Emorphs toes.
B) meaningfully expand or shift 35s defensive matchups.
If 35 checks the same mons with its secondary ability as it does with Emorph, the secondary ability is either going to flop or surpass Emorph.
Look at Clodsire for how its primary and secondary really shift what it is able to check and thus provide to a defensive core.

What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary

My position on question two to me implies, that we should focus on a defensive ability roughly at the same powerlevel of Emorph, that meaningfully differentiates the targeted mons that 35 checks.
This also means that any ability from poll 1 that isn't on the secondary ability banlist should be fair game.

 

[quziel]

Well, well, well. We meet again. Y'all know the drill, let's roll right into the questions. These are fairly self-explanatory, so I feel comfortable asking them without much detail. Don't disappoint me ;).

1. Is a second ability necessary? Does it add anything?
2. How can/should a Secondary Ability help CAP35 distinctly compared to Electromorphosis?
3. What is the expected power level of a potential secondary ability given the relatively high power of our primary?

Please stay on topic and keep in mind ability suggestions aren't being accepted yet. I'll say 48 hours for these questions. Let's have a great stage, yall.

Mainly addressing 3. Our secondary ability (if we have one) should be roughly 99% as strong as our primary. That is, if we're doing a secondary competitive ability it needs to be strong enough to actually be competitive. This means there is an inherent risk that it could overshadow the primary, but I think as long as we're making sensible choices that risk isn't very big. This is also a necessary risk, cause if our secondary is guaranteed to be worse than the primary ability, its just gonna be another Intimidate Hemogoblin.

I think there's also a lot of space for a competitive secondary here. Our CAP really wants a lot of help vs status, chip, vs pivots, and the such, and an ability that directly targets those could meaningfully expand our play pattern in a very interesting way.

 

[Genuine_Angus_B33F]

I disagree with this.

Our secondary ability (if we have one) should be roughly 99% as strong as our primary.

Electromorphosis is especially vulnerable to being overshadowed here. It is powerful, but it being so contradictory to our role and only applying in relatively specific situations can easily make a mediocre but more consistently applicable ability outshine it with surprising ease.

Consider that in every 6v6 tier aside from OU, including it's home tier of PU, Bellibolt already tends to prefer Static over Electromorphosis, and it already has a larger portion of its output dependant on Electric type attacks compared to CAP 35 with Knock Off and potentially Ice Beam and/or Glare. Even if it would never completely dominate it, a similarly mundane ability could easily come to define CAP 35 more strongly than Electromorphosis.

 

[Earthflax]

Alright, let's wind it down. There seems to be a fairly reasonable consensus on my first two questions - namely that a secondary ability, while not essential, would still be useful to cement a niche for CAP35, and that this secondary ability should be defensive in nature because of our primary ability's strength on offense and the stiff competition it would provide as a result. There is a wide range of opinions, however, on my last question: the expected power level of 35's secondary ability. In my estimation, this is fine so long as all prospective abilities are productive for CAP35 in some form.

With this, I'm going to open ability suggestions. Again, abilities should be defensive in nature and there is no set power level (within reason) Cheers everybody!

 

[the mystery duck]

Sticky Hold is nice to reduce CAP35's vulnerability with hazard damage and opposing knock offs. Also has the added bonus of helping our matchup with Gholdengo, in the case of trick.

 

[Imw0rstadP0keM0n]

I'd like to avoid abilities that instantly reveal themselves as it removes a lot of the potential mixup between Electromorphosis and our secondary Ability whatever that may end up being. If we say, have Misty Surge or Mold Breaker, our opponents will instantly know they can safely pivot without fear of our strong Electromorphosis boosted STAB. To avoid that, I'm suggesting abilities that are as invisible as Electromorphosis is on switch-in, that way we can play mind-games with our opponents and force them to do guesswork onto what our set accomplishes on any given team.

That being said, here are some suggestions, sorted roughly from weak to strong:

1. Aroma Veil. Considering this almost won our first ability poll, I think we can heavily reconsider this. Aroma Veil stops a lot of the anti-utility options that may point at us as a wall, allowing us to very safely click recovery moves and, more specifically, Glare with relative ease. This comes back to the distinction I want to bring between Ice Beam and Glare as potential switch-punish options. Aroma Veil allows us to far more easily spread paralysis and keep ourselves healthy at the cost of offensive prowess, which I think helps the criteria a lot.

2. Bulletproof. If we want to cement our matchup against Glowking/Gholdengo/other fblast/sludge bomb users, this is the ability to go. Sacrificing offensive prowess to full stop these sets is certainly a useful option even if its' a bit boring. It also doesn't impact our matchup into Grounds or Phys. Fighting types at all, so it's fairly low impact outside of a few matchups we already excelled in.

3. Shield Dust. As it stands, trappers and especially Garg Salt Cure are remarkably difficult for us to deal with. While we could grab a Covert Cloak, that gives us a pretty big weakness to Knock Off. Shield Dust would prevent passive damage, random spread status, and pesky stat drops that make walling far more difficult (e.g, Equilibra Earth Power dropping our SpDef).

4. Filter/Solid Rock/Prism Armor. Filter may be slightly counter intuitive considering our concept, but it remarkably helps us defensively against matchups that otherwise a struggle. We can far more comfortably live things like Zamazenta CC or GTusk EQ, and punish with a timely Glare. Without the Electromorphosis boost, our mid Special Attack and poor speed prevents options like Weakness Policy from becoming too strong. Instead, Filter particularly helps us spreading status onto targets that would normally exploit our weaknesses and lack of speed.

also yeah i like sticky hold but don't have much to add to above post

 

[Faux Focalors Furina]

Hot take for a secondary ability:
I suggest Fluffy as CAP35's secondary ability, now hear me out. Fluffy can't reveal itself just like electromorphosis the only difference is when the next turn happens, it's a 50/50 for either EMorph to activate or Fluffy's physical defense being bulky. Now the upside is if someone tried using a physical type move barring non-contact fighting moves and earthquake, CAP35's most likely to be able to eat up a physical hit and hit back with status moves like para or some coverage like ice beam. Now the downside is fire type moves against it but that's what happens if you try to be a wall with some contradictory. Is this the best be suggestion? No. Absolutely not. But does it match it's theme? Maybe. I just wanted to make this for fun lol.

EDIT: Remove this as a suggestion now, it's too op. Thx ^^

 

[Amamama]

Filter may be slightly counter intuitive considering our concept, but it remarkably helps us defensively against matchups that otherwise a struggle. We can far more comfortably live things like Zamazenta CC or GTusk E

I suggest Fluffy as CAP35's secondary ability, now hear me out. Fluffy can't reveal itself

Both Filter(and Clones) and Fluffy are almost certainly not OK with this level of Bulk.
I'd like you two to provide calcs with important matchups, to get some perspective on what these abilities are capable of doing. Spoiler: We can reasonably stay in on mons like Utility Great Tusk, Libra or Defensive Lando T depending on investment and ability, wearing this Mon down would become a matter of boosting toxic or taunt encore. And given the utility it has with moves like Glare or Knock, I'm really uncomfortable with making a Mon that is so difficult to force out.

 

[Pipotchi]

Synchronize is a very targeted ability that aims to catch out Dragapult and Cresceidon- both of these mons thrive when they dont take unnecessary chip damage, usually switching out before we get a chance to retaliate, and Sycnhronize means that burns from either mons will catch them before that happens.
Toxic mostly is used by Toxic-immune mons like Snael and Gliscor and Paralysis doesnt affect us, so it isnt an ability with a wide reach. However it does target two of the strongest mons in the metagame (both targets also aligning with our typing choice) making it niche but powerful: an ideal secondary ability.

for clarity i'll list all the mons that this can likely affect- a very promising list considering our intentions to be a special wall and ghost answer:

 

[Rapti]

I gonna propose Immunity as an ability which is useful in general without overshadowing Electromorphosis like something like Poison Heal would

 

[Collol]

Synchronize is a very targeted ability that aims to catch out Dragapult and Cresceidon- both of these mons thrive when they dont take unnecessary chip damage, usually switching out before we get a chance to retaliate, and Sycnhronize means that burns from either mons will catch them before that happens.
Toxic mostly is used by Toxic-immune mons like Snael and Gliscor and Paralysis doesnt affect us, so it isnt an ability with a wide reach. However it does target two of the strongest mons in the metagame (both targets also aligning with our typing choice) making it niche but powerful: an ideal secondary ability.

for clarity i'll list all the mons that this can likely affect- a very promising list considering our intentions to be a special wall and ghost answer:

With a similar argument, I think Marvel Scale would make a solid if not very strong secondary ability. Unlike Poison Heal or Guts, it doesn’t push toward using a status-inducing item, so CAP35 can still run Leftovers and function more as a blind status spam deterrent. This I think is similar to how Electromorphosis functions for CAP35, in that the threat of a good switch in (to chip/special attacks for EMorph, to status for MS) is always looming when CAP35 is in a team. The long-term defensive boost is also very different from the immediate offensive pressure from EMorph, so can result in interesting sets for CAP35.

Why I think it might be too strong is because the permanent defensive boost throughout the match is far better than the one-time counterattack of Synchronize, and could alter some of its matchups against physical attackers. And it is far less situational than EMorph, so if something like Static can overshadow it in Bellibolt, this has the same potential.

 

[TheDuckChris]

My idea for secondary ability centers around a defensive ability that is useful on switch in. When facing off 1v1 CAP35 needs a bit of an offensive boost that Electromorphis brings to be able to win matchups. However when acting as a defensive pivot or just a check, a defensive ability could help.

Volt Absorb is my main choice. As an electric type already, this is not the biggest addition. Changing a resist to an immunity is definitely advantageous but most opposing pokemon will not be looking to use electric moves against this pokemon. However this does give us one distinct niche and that is being able to switch in on opposing volt switch or other electric moves and get a little extra health. As a more defensive option this would not be as useful in one on one matchups, but it allows CAP35 to tech more into a defensive pivot instead of a harder hitting wall. It's possible this is too niche but I do think it would be a useful option on more defensive sets that revolve around Glare more.

Other similar options:
Sap Sipper adds a grass immunity with an attack boost (situational at best), giving one more immunity albeit to a more uncommon attacking type this gen.
Water Compaction is an option that doesn't provide an immunity but does add to our walling significantly. Situationally switching in on water types for a defense boost is like a pseudo resistance, letting it ev more into special defense. Likely too weak/niche
Well Baked Body adds a fire immunity and a defence boost. Turning a neutral hit into an immunity is likely too strong. Heatproof might be more realistic but it's kind of underwhelming.
Rough Skin is a less powerful version of volt absorb but is always a strong ability especially on something slower that might end up taking a fair amount of u-turns and knock offs. Not too big on this one but always an option.

Other not so similar options:
Mummy / Lingering Aroma clone would be very interesting as it's been shown to be very effective on defensive pokemon, shutting down opposing contact-mons' abilities. This would make CAP35 an impressive switch in to regenerator U-turnersn and give better bulk vs pokemon who need their abilities for full damage. However not every pokemon that CAP35 will want to check is physical or makes contact so it might be a niche usage.

On glare:
Mold Breaker is an unorthodox one that CAP35 would use defensively for one purpose: paralyzing Gholdengo and Garganacl with Glare. I don't really think that's worth it but its definitely in my mind.

 

[dex]

Just givin some thoughts on the suggested abilities, as I tend to do...
As a general matter, I think a competitive secondary is a good idea to bolster the mon's defensive presence in the builder. However, competitive secondary abilities do need to strike a certain level of being usable without being too strong, that I think a few abilities do really well.

I like it!

Sticky Hold - Probably my favorite option. SS Gastrodon sometimes ran Sticky Hold to preserve HDB, and that mon resists Stealth Rock! I think this is a good choice that would sometimes be run on teams that really just want CAP 35 to be fat and stay fat.

Shield Dust - Shield Dust is quite awesome on a defensive Pokemon. This allows CAP 35 to switch into Scald easily, avoid Salt Cure which is awesome, and not get dropped by Shadow Ball after Tera, which I think is an underrated bonus to the ability.

Immunity - Snorlax in past gen lower tiers shows that this ability is good but not too, too good. There isn't that much Toxic in the game, but it lets you greed out an Ice Beam or stay in to pressure Snaelstrom a lot more easily, so I think it's a fine choice.

Water Compaction - This is about as close to a type resistance/immunity ability as I would ever want to get with a secondary, but I think its competitive implications are just awesome. Ogerpon-W likes to click the Water move; this ability introduces some cool mind games to that matchup as well as giving it a nice passive boost vs. other Water-types.

Rough Skin / Iron Barbs - Another ability that is just generally good on a defensive Pokemon. It isn't particularly exciting or especially good on CAP 35, it's just a good ability.

Mummy / Lingering Aroma / Wandering Spirit - FIRE ability, truly. Would be psyched to have a user of this ability back in the tier. Only downside is that CAP 35's matchup chart looks like it wants to come in on special attackers more than physical ones, but I definitely think this could see some use here and there. This ability also turns CAP 35 into perhaps the best Tornadus-T counter known to man, which is kinda funny. Quziel is right though, Wandering Spirit is the best of the three.

Cotton Down - Strangely, I think a Cotton Down CAP 35 is going to be investing in SpA probably more than an Electromorphosis CAP 35. If you're ok with that, the ability does some kinda cool stuff with Ice Beam in play. I'm not super sold on it, but I can see it.

I don't like it!

Aroma Veil - Given the defining and optional moves CAP 35 is looking at right now, I just don't think Aroma Veil is actually that useful anymore. CAP 35 looks like it wants to run quite a few attacking moves, so this ability probably isn't as useful as it seems at first glance.

Bulletproof - Flatly too strong to put as a secondary. Let's not Libra this, yeh?

Filter - Ehhhhhhhhh. I don't think this is anti-concept, like others have insinuated, because CAP 35 has only two weaknesses. However, I think those weaknesses are healthy balancing aspects for the mon, so let's leave 'em as is.

Fluffy - Heck no are you kidding me.

Synchronize - This ability, like Aroma Veil, just doesn't do enough to be warranted consideration as a competitive secondary.

Marvel Scale - Genuinely I think Sticky Hold does this but better in terms of preventing chip damage and such.

Volt Absorb - If Volt Switch was a more prevalent move in the metagame, I'd be for this. It isn't, so I'm not.

Sap Sipper - See Bulletproof.

Well Baked Body - See Bulletproof. Come on people.

Heatproof - Yeah I understand that it isn't as strong as an immunity ability but I also don't really like just giving out an extra resistance.

Mold Breaker - The draw of Mold Breaker is doing stuff to Gholdengo. Discharge does that, without the need for an ability! Just doesn't do enough with CAP 35's existent kit.

Seed Sower - I do not think this would see any sort of use. It's very inconsistent and I do not see how you could ever justify using it over Electromorphosis.

Mind's Eye - There were some great posts during primary ability about why Scrappy isn't really that good on this Pokemon. Read those, then let me know if you actually still think Mind's Eye would see use.

Serene Grace - Dude, this Pokemon is gonna run Ice Beam. Fuck. No.

Edit: put thoughts on ones that were posted later

 

[quziel]

My criteria for judging an ability are:

• Is this good enough to get use over Electromorphosis 20-49% of the time.
• Does this interact positively with our chosen stats and typing
• Does this fit concept
  • Note: I have a more permissive view here; we chose our typing because it lacks widespread relevant resists. Reducing weaknesses does not change the fact that we lack widespread relevant resists. Adding a single resistance approaches this but frankly does not change enough.

Cotton Down has very interesting interactions with this CAP, and is one of the few ways we can get "anti sweeper" tech onto ourselves while still maintaining a power level that is roughly on par with Electromorphosis. Better yet the counterplay for Cotton Down is the exact same counterplay that Electromorphosis has; just don't attack CAP 35. I think this is advantageous because we don't want a repeat of Equilibra where you were forced to attack into a potential immunity and give the mon a lot of free space. Here you are incentivized to just set up again until you can hopefully force an OHKO, which is the same play pattern that Emorph wants.

As for advantages over Emorph, I think it leans a lot harder into us being a wall/pivot, as the play pattern of "get hit and volt after into a rkiller" is really potent, and can make revenge killing stuff like Chuggalong a lot easier. Our speed isn't good, but its just high enough that we can use Cotton down against some wallbreakers, rather than sweepers. At the same time it doesn't outclass Emorph as Emorph is a lot of power. I think my main worry is whether its good enough to get use over Emorph some of the time, and on that I'm a bit unsure.

Seed Sower has an arguably better effect than Electromorphosis, providing a lot of help vs literally Gliscor, but Gliscor might be leaving anyways, and it realistically is procing once per switchin instead of potentially many times per switchin. I think its good enough to get usage 30-60% of the time, which is a bit high but within acceptable bounds.



----

Stuff I like:
Water Compaction maintains a similar play pattern to Emorph; you really don't wanna hit CAP 35, and in this case its because accidentally using Ivy Cudgel instead of Power Whip means you're no longer really breaking through CAP 35. This also helps you to punish Alomomola teams by just constraining their potential switch-ins heavily. That said those kinda teams would just go Libra instead. I think my main concern again really is strength; I'm not sure if this is good enough to get use over Emorph even 5% of the time.

Sticky Hold means that we are a great Knock off switchin, and make Gholdengo even more sad, as the scarf set literally only has one move that is even half useful against us. I think this is of the correct power level. There are going to be many teams where you want the 100% switchin to Knock off, and at the same time, if you have decent removal there's a lot of teams where you're going to be able to greed a bit and run Emorph. Think similar to Multiscale (greedy) vs Rough Skin (consistent value) on Cresceidon.

Bulletproof lets us hard swap into Glowking forever, which is worth a lot, and beyond that makes us truly counter Gholdengo instead of hard checking it. I think this is overall roughly the correct power level, as we really lack power without Electromorphosis, and trading the ability to pose an offensive threat for a few more free switch-ins is roughly correct. I think there is the worry of "can I focus blast it safely" but frankly there's not many focus blasters in the meta.

Shield Dust is functionally a "screw Garganacl" ability, and that's good for us because well, screw Garganacl. It frankly doesn't make us a surefire answer to the mon, as the setup sets just walk us, with both Curse EQ and IDPress having fairly impeccable matchups into CAP 35, but at the same time, the protect SR set gains another mon that can swap into it forever. This also takes Alomomola and Cresceidon from very positive matchups into incredibly positive matchups which is nice.

Heatproof is another ability where its probably a 30-60% of the time ability, and breaks some folks interpretation of concept, but at the same time it provides a ton of value relevant to our potential place in the meta. Its probably the only ability that interacts positively with burn (something we are likely to get) and is strong enough to get any use, it provides a narrow but useful Fire resist, and just generally helps solidify our place on teams. That said I understand that for a lot of folks taking a mon that currently has 3+1 resists and giving it 4+1 resists could take it from fulfilling concept to not fulfilling concept.

---

Stuff I do not like:

Too Weak: Synchronize, Mold Breaker, Aroma Veil, Marvel Scale, Mummy, Immunity, Natural Cure

None of these are good enough to get realistic use over Electromorphosis. I'll speak about Mummy/Lingering Aroma separately here because while I think they're generally too weak to get significant use over Electromorphosis, I think Wandering Spirit, by virtue of giving you Alomomola's regen after it Flips on you, is strong enough.

Too Strong: Fluffy

This is just too good.

 

[Imw0rstadP0keM0n]

I'd like you two to provide calcs with important matchups, to get some perspective on what these abilities are capable of doing.

Ok.

Here's +2 Gholdengo FBlast with vs. Electromorphosis 252/252+ HP/SpDef Heliolisk. We lose this interaction since we're a good deal slower than Gholdengo and can't paralyze it.

Here's with Filter

Still lose this matchup, only now we can't even do meaningful chip to Gholdengo in the process.

What about other SE coverage?

Why filter isn't OP

Electromorphosis

Filter

Electromorphosis

Filter

Dragapult is unaffected other than us hitting him way weaker with our STAB.

The main thing Filter does is make our ability to soak singular ground type moves a little bit more bearable.

Electromorphosis

Filter

also:

"get hit and volt after into a rkiller"

we explicitly don't have volt switch as a defining move, just ice beam and glare. Our role as a pivot is limited to hard switching.