CAP29 - Part 9 - Stat Playtesting Discussion

Dogfish44

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CAP29 So Far
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In order to help us understand the way different stat spreads will play once we're live, for CAP29 we're introducing a Stat Playtesting Discussion. This thread is to share logs and replays from test matches, as well as feedback on the different stats, so that we can make a more informed decision on our stats vote.

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(Click the above, or find the CAP Test Server on the Pokemon Showdown website!)

We also recommend reading the below in order to understand each slated Stat Spread, as to further help discussion.

And here's the slate! I was extremely satisfied with the diversity of submissions at the end, and as a result, I believe that the eight spreads I've compiled represent a great range of creative visions for how CAP29 should function. As always, though, only so many spreads could make the slate, and I genuinely had a very hard time deciding on which ones. There are some spreads I didn't end up slating that I'd personally still love to see on CAP29, but only so many of them can make it to the polls at the end of the day. I hope you're all satisfied with the spreads I've chosen & I'll pass this off to Birkal now to give a final glance.

As a reminder, the first poll for stats won't be going up right away. There will be two days of downtime before we begin polling these spreads, and so that we're not just sitting on our butts during this time, these spreads are implemented on the CAPtest PS! server where we can all learn more about them in the following days. I'd recommend skimming my last post if you haven't seen it already so that we can all approach this testing period with the right mindset, but ultimately I'm very excited for it and I hope we take proper advantage of this opportunity to try everything out first-hand.

Scizivire - 91 HP / 73 Atk / 122 Def / 135 SpA / 60 SpD / 89 Spe | 570 BST
Scizivire's spread clearly emphasizes having high physical bulk and Special Attack, with these factors being balanced out by a slower Speed tier, and most obviously the low Special Defense. After one or two Calm Minds this spread can still take on powerful special attackers, but in general, this spread leans much more on its high physically defensive capabilities in order to check Pokemon like Rillaboom and Zeraora. The Special Attack is another massive selling point of this stat spread, being able to hit key benchmarks against foes like Jumbao, Dragapult, and Equilibra while having the Speed to outrun Excadrill and anything below it.

kjnjkmjk1 - 88 HP / 72 Atk / 124 Def / 112 SpA / 88 SpD / 106 Spe | 590 BST
This submission opted for great physical bulk to avoid being 2HKO'd by Pokemon like Rillaboom and Zeraora, while not going too high so that certain Ground-types can act as reliable offensive checks. Kjnjkmjk1's Special Defense for this spread is in a nice middleground, allowing enough bulk to avoid being threatened by Tapu Lele after a Calm Mind and other common Pokemon like Equilibra and Jumbao. The Speed is also notable here, as we can outspeed potential threats like Krilowatt and Garchomp while having enough Special Attack to take on common Ground-types with Ice Beam and Fairy-types with STAB Sludge Bomb.

dex18 - 80 HP / 85 Atk / 108 Def / 122 SpA / 85 SpD / 120 Spe | 600 BST
Dex18's spread is the fastest among the slate, and chooses to place such an emphasis on Speed in an attempt to overwhelm the opponent offensively, set up Calm Minds by reliably forcing switches, and avoid certain ways in which Color Change might be exploited. The rest of the benchmarks are also solid in their own right, as there's enough Special Attack to OHKO Pokemon like Pajantom and Kerfluffle with our Poison/Dark coverage, as well as Garchomp and Landorus-T with 4x effective Ice-type coverage. While the bulk isn't high enough to be switching into Rillaboom's Wood Hammers, we can still consistently take two Grassy Glides after hazards, and our Special Defense isn't too impressive at first but is still enough for us to set up on Equilibra and beat Krilowatt after a Calm Mind.

quziel - 106 HP / 99 Atk / 82 Def / 122 SpA / 84 SpD / 107 Spe | 600 BST
Quziel opted for a strong, quick attacker with respectable balanced defenses, while also sporting a workable Attack stat that allows for off-sets such as Coil or 3 Attacks + Recover to be theoretically viable. The Defense stat means that we will never be OHKO'd by defensive Landorus-T's Earthquake while always losing to Choice Scarf sets, and additionally lets us switch into Zeraora and preserve other offensive checks to us like Life Orb Garchomp and Barraskewda. Our SpD should be enough to set up on Krilowatt, Zapdos, and Choice-locked Jumbao, with this spread also possessing a very solid SpA that can 2HKO Landorus-T and Heatran with Scald after minimal prior chip damage.

MrDollSteak - 85 HP / 85 Atk / 115 Def / 115 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe | 600 BST
MrDollSteak chose to pursue a very balanced stat spread, taking after Calm Mind users like Tapu Fini and Suicune that have strong, flexible stats across the board. This submission also elected to underspeed Garchomp in order to preserve its efficacy as a check, so the 100 base Speed accomplishes this while still outspeeding some key matchups like Jumbao, Tapu Lele, and Kyurem. The Defense stat means that Life Orb Garchomp will always 2HKO us, but affords enough bulk to hardly ever fear Rillaboom's Wood Hammer and lets us act as an emergency check against strong wallbreakers like Melmetal and Kartana. There's enough special bulk here to have good shots at winning against Pokemon who can hit us SE or chain SE hits like Equilibra, Zapdos, and Heatran, especially after a Calm Mind; the Special Attack is also nothing game-breaking, but will allow us to 2HKO or OHKO targets like Rillaboom and Landorus-T after hazards damage, and is at a level where we can pose a decent initial threat against most of the necessary matchups.

Korski - 115 HP / 76 Atk / 78 Def / 110 SpA / 72 SpD / 116 Spe | 567 BST
This is technically the weakest spread among the slate, but it's not for no reason; Korski elected to show restraint here in order to keep the door open for powerful moves such as Strength Sap in the next stage, while still not compromising in the area which he deemed to be the most important, that being our Speed. Base 116 Spe lets us outspeed Astrolotl and everything below it, and if Color Change ever generates a free turn for us, the high Speed should help us firmly hold onto any momentum gained. The Special Attack allows us to 2HKO many common Fairy-types like Clefable and Tapu Lele, and the defenses of this spread are intended to allow for a high degree of customizability and diversity among sets. This essentially aims to let you go from losing against something like Landorus-T to handily winning against it if you're invested accordingly, with the same being possible in multiple other matchups like Latios and Krilowatt as well.

earl - 95 HP / 95 Atk / 90 Def / 129 SpA / 99 SpD / 92 Spe | 600 BST
Here we have another spread with mostly balanced defenses and a workable Attack stat, although earl chooses to put a slight emphasis on Special Defense and invests highly into offensive capabilities. The SpA stat here was chosen so that we can pose a threat pre-setup, as well as easily 2HKO something like Rillaboom even after losing STAB. It's also backed up by the Speed tier, being in a position to outspeed Landorus-T and other slower targets, though it's equally possible to invest EVs into bulk here instead. The provided bulk means that we'll always be 2HKO'd by Tapu Lele if we're unboosted, but is still enough to set up and exploit many of the weaker special wallbreakers in the tier; the Defense stat is also high enough so that we can switch into Rillaboom's Wood Hammer if we max out our investment in that area.

Brambane - 120 HP / 93 Atk / 105 Def / 135 SpA / 95 SpD / 52 Spe | 600 BST
This is by far the slowest spread among the entire slate, however, this approach certainly has its merits. Lowering the Speed stat to this level means that both Special Attack and bulk can be highly prioritized, and this spread does just that; the Defense means that Rillaboom's Wood Hammer can't reliably 2HKO us and even allows us to live hits from powerful offensive Ground-types with enough investment, while the special bulk is such that we can apply excellent pressure against targets like Astrolotl or even bulkier Pokemon such as certain sets of Gastrodon. The low speed ultimately means that we'll have a much harder time finding workable switch-in opportunities, but the spread does an excellent job at compensating for it with its strengths in other areas.
We'll be keeping this thread open for approximately 36 hours, and we'll first open when your wonderful Stats Leader 2spoopy4u posts and/or gives the go ahead!

 
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Hi guys, welcome to the playtesting thread for cap29. This is a new thing we're trying out, but over the next few days until our stat spread is decided, please feel free to use this thread to post interesting replays, teams with cap29, general observations about its strength, or really anything else related to the playtesting we're doing right now. Not much more to say about this one, I hope this is an informative period for us and I hope we all have a good time with testing this thing out :)

(edit) Adding in the descriptions from my closing post in the last stage, just for ease of comparison between spreads and as a refresher for what all of the spreads are

Scizivire - 91 HP / 73 Atk / 122 Def / 135 SpA / 60 SpD / 89 Spe | 570 BST
Scizivire's spread clearly emphasizes having high physical bulk and Special Attack, with these factors being balanced out by a slower Speed tier, and most obviously the low Special Defense. After one or two Calm Minds this spread can still take on powerful special attackers, but in general, this spread leans much more on its high physically defensive capabilities in order to check Pokemon like Rillaboom and Zeraora. The Special Attack is another massive selling point of this stat spread, being able to hit key benchmarks against foes like Jumbao, Dragapult, and Equilibra while having the Speed to outrun Excadrill and anything below it.


kjnjkmjk1 - 88 HP / 72 Atk / 124 Def / 112 SpA / 88 SpD / 106 Spe | 590 BST
This submission opted for great physical bulk to avoid being 2HKO'd by Pokemon like Rillaboom and Zeraora, while not going too high so that certain Ground-types can act as reliable offensive checks. Kjnjkmjk1's Special Defense for this spread is in a nice middleground, allowing enough bulk to avoid being threatened by Tapu Lele after a Calm Mind and other common Pokemon like Equilibra and Jumbao. The Speed is also notable here, as we can outspeed potential threats like Krilowatt and Garchomp while having enough Special Attack to take on common Ground-types with Ice Beam and Fairy-types with STAB Sludge Bomb.


dex18 - 80 HP / 85 Atk / 108 Def / 122 SpA / 85 SpD / 120 Spe | 600 BST
Dex18's spread is the fastest among the slate, and chooses to place such an emphasis on Speed in an attempt to overwhelm the opponent offensively, set up Calm Minds by reliably forcing switches, and avoid certain ways in which Color Change might be exploited. The rest of the benchmarks are also solid in their own right, as there's enough Special Attack to OHKO Pokemon like Pajantom and Kerfluffle with our Poison/Dark coverage, as well as Garchomp and Landorus-T with 4x effective Ice-type coverage. While the bulk isn't high enough to be switching into Rillaboom's Wood Hammers, we can still consistently take two Grassy Glides after hazards, and our Special Defense isn't too impressive at first but is still enough for us to set up on Equilibra and beat Krilowatt after a Calm Mind.


quziel - 106 HP / 99 Atk / 82 Def / 122 SpA / 84 SpD / 107 Spe | 600 BST
Quziel opted for a strong, quick attacker with respectable balanced defenses, while also sporting a workable Attack stat that allows for off-sets such as Coil or 3 Attacks + Recover to be theoretically viable. The Defense stat means that we will never be OHKO'd by defensive Landorus-T's Earthquake while always losing to Choice Scarf sets, and additionally lets us switch into Zeraora and preserve other offensive checks to us like Life Orb Garchomp and Barraskewda. Our SpD should be enough to set up on Krilowatt, Zapdos, and Choice-locked Jumbao, with this spread also possessing a very solid SpA that can 2HKO Landorus-T and Heatran with Scald after minimal prior chip damage.


MrDollSteak - 85 HP / 85 Atk / 115 Def / 115 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe | 600 BST
MrDollSteak chose to pursue a very balanced stat spread, taking after Calm Mind users like Tapu Fini and Suicune that have strong, flexible stats across the board. This submission also elected to underspeed Garchomp in order to preserve its efficacy as a check, so the 100 base Speed accomplishes this while still outspeeding some key matchups like Jumbao, Tapu Lele, and Kyurem. The Defense stat means that Life Orb Garchomp will always 2HKO us, but affords enough bulk to hardly ever fear Rillaboom's Wood Hammer and lets us act as an emergency check against strong wallbreakers like Melmetal and Kartana. There's enough special bulk here to have good shots at winning against Pokemon who can hit us SE or chain SE hits like Equilibra, Zapdos, and Heatran, especially after a Calm Mind; the Special Attack is also nothing game-breaking, but will allow us to 2HKO or OHKO targets like Rillaboom and Landorus-T after hazards damage, and is at a level where we can pose a decent initial threat against most of the necessary matchups.


Korski - 115 HP / 76 Atk / 78 Def / 110 SpA / 72 SpD / 116 Spe | 567 BST
This is technically the weakest spread among the slate, but it's not for no reason; Korski elected to show restraint here in order to keep the door open for powerful moves such as Strength Sap in the next stage, while still not compromising in the area which he deemed to be the most important, that being our Speed. Base 116 Spe lets us outspeed Astrolotl and everything below it, and if Color Change ever generates a free turn for us, the high Speed should help us firmly hold onto any momentum gained. The Special Attack allows us to 2HKO many common Fairy-types like Clefable and Tapu Lele, and the defenses of this spread are intended to allow for a high degree of customizability and diversity among sets. This essentially aims to let you go from losing against something like Landorus-T to handily winning against it if you're invested accordingly, with the same being possible in multiple other matchups like Latios and Krilowatt as well.


earl - 95 HP / 95 Atk / 90 Def / 129 SpA / 99 SpD / 92 Spe | 600 BST
Here we have another spread with mostly balanced defenses and a workable Attack stat, although earl chooses to put a slight emphasis on Special Defense and invests highly into offensive capabilities. The SpA stat here was chosen so that we can pose a threat pre-setup, as well as easily 2HKO something like Rillaboom even after losing STAB. It's also backed up by the Speed tier, being in a position to outspeed Landorus-T and other slower targets, though it's equally possible to invest EVs into bulk here instead. The provided bulk means that we'll always be 2HKO'd by Tapu Lele if we're unboosted, but is still enough to set up and exploit many of the weaker special wallbreakers in the tier; the Defense stat is also high enough so that we can switch into Rillaboom's Wood Hammer if we max out our investment in that area.


Brambane - 120 HP / 93 Atk / 105 Def / 135 SpA / 95 SpD / 52 Spe | 600 BST
This is by far the slowest spread among the entire slate, however, this approach certainly has its merits. Lowering the Speed stat to this level means that both Special Attack and bulk can be highly prioritized, and this spread does just that; the Defense means that Rillaboom's Wood Hammer can't reliably 2HKO us and even allows us to live hits from powerful offensive Ground-types with enough investment, while the special bulk is such that we can apply excellent pressure against targets like Astrolotl or even bulkier Pokemon such as certain sets of Gastrodon. The low speed ultimately means that we'll have a much harder time finding workable switch-in opportunities, but the spread does an excellent job at compensating for it with its strengths in other areas.
 
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I'll edit in some replays later, but I wanted to list some of the things I noticed early on into testing.
  • Galarian Slowking has the very interesting combination of Sludge Bomb into Future Sight on CAP29. While perhaps this can be dealt with with the bulkier spreads, it just forces CAP29 to recover while the opponent gets a free switch to something that can pressure the now vulnerable Psychic type CAP29. The mon has a very positive matchup into 29 that I don't think can be avoided through stats.
  • Zapdos is not the issue we thought it was. Most Zapdos sets just don't have the power to really make use of Hurricane into Discharge. Krilowatt on the other hand is quite difficult for CAP29 to deal with. Surf into Thunderbolt is just massive damage, and it has the added bonus of the next surf not being resisted.
  • As Spoo and I realized very quickly, Gastrodon is simply nuts into CAP29. Toxic users in general are going to be quite strong counters, and given that these users are usually Heatran, Gastrodon, and Toxapex, all mons that CAP29 will struggle with barring coverage, even the bulkiest or strongest spreads are going to lose to Toxic.
  • The common consensus is that spreads should be running 2 attack/cm/recovery with leftovers and Max HP. I think this is very close minded. 3 attack sets with either recovery or cm should be tested, along with LO sets (similar to LO Jumbao). There's a lot this mon can/could do and given how crazy different all the spreads are, we should cover all our bases here.
 
Thanks for starting us off here dex, I'd like to throw out a quick post of my own that hopefully helps people with teambuilding a bit

Here are a few really simple cores with cap29:
cap29 + :skarmory: - cap29 hates ground types, skarmory checks ground types and provides spikes support which is great for a bulky wincon like cap29
cap29 + :heatran: - heatran can potentially land toxics on stuff like gastrodon and tyranitar, and if you situate yourself correctly then tran can also remove stuff like slowking from the game
cap29 + :astrolotl: - astro can provide spikes, heal bell, and can twave stuff like tran/tyranitar, which is all super valuable for cap29. astro also does a fine job at wearing down opposing ground types, and you could opt to run wisp to just outright neuter them
cap29 + :gastrodon: - very simple "cap29 + answer to cap29" core, the synergy isn't too special outside of that but gastro can still answer things like heatran and spread status
cap29 + :dragapult: - cap29 spreads status, hexpult loves mons that spread status
cap29 + :krilowatt: - krilowatt can endlessly volt on special tanks like ttar to wear them down, and you might be able to get a lucky surf/ice beam off on a ground type that's looking to block the volt switch, which frees up cap29 a ton
cap29 + :ferrothorn: - another mon that provides spikes support but can also pressure stuff like gastrodon and does a decent job at answering ground types

I'm not the best builder in this tier by any means but there's really a lot of simple stuff you can do in building to help cap29 succeed. It's definitely a mon that needs team support, but it can also provide a lot for its team in return––depending on which spread/how much investment you use, it can reliably answer huge threats like rilla and cm clef, and being a great zera check/status spreader is quite nice too.
I also think that if you don't pack an answer for cap29 right now then your view of it might be a bit warped. I've seen a few people talk about how insane the mirror matchup is, because all of its moves are self resisting so it leads to an endless CM war. I have yet to experience this myself so I can't really comment on it, but to me, it implies that your team doesn't have a better cap29 answer than your own cap29, which usually shouldn't be the case. Here are a couple easy cores / pokemon you can use to stave off cap29, this is mostly off the top of my head and I am almost certain there are a few I'm missing
:gastrodon: - obligatory hard counter
:tyranitar::slowking:/:corviknight: - slow pivot + bulky toxic user
:corviknight::heatran: - slow pivot + sets up into SE magma storm / can threaten with toxic
:slowking::rillaboom: - scald -> tp rilla -> death
:slowking::landorus-therian:/:garchomp: tp lando -> threaten with SE eq (needs to be scarf lando/lorb chomp)
:toxapex: - the thing can't touch hazepex without SE coverage which we don't have access to right now anyways
other stuff that works: paj is great for non dark pulse sets, random toxic users like zera or tankchomp can work decently well, even random twave users can be effective enough. entry hazards are also very powerful against this mon in my limited testing so far

I don't have a fully formed opinion of how strong this mon is yet but I do think that right now if you're using cap29 you need a) good team support and crucially b) a way to deal with other cap29. This doesn't always mean you have to cteam the hell out of it and bring gastrodon + slowking + corviknight + rillaboom but like, you need at least some way to reliably answer it right now given that it's being spammed on every team. I'd just recommend treating it like any other strong wincon right now, say cm clef, which you need to have an answer for but it doesn't require a hard cteam to beat either.
 

Birkal

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I love the existence of this thread, and I'm just popping in to request that people share their battle logs in this thread, even if they don't find that they have much relevant information. You don't even need to have an opinion on CAP29 at the moment -- the more logs we have, the better! Just dump some battles if you don't have much to say. Remember, this is the first time we've seen a competitive Color Change mon functioning well in a metagame, so any battles you have to share will help us understand CAP29 at a conceptual level.
 
Getting the ball rolling on replays, even if these aren't the best quality.
  • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-151 Includes my (kjnjkmjk1) spread and quziel's spread. Inaugural battle. Battle was mostly determined by my team eventually getting rolled by CM Clefable, but my spread gets to deal with a Garchomp and quziel's spread smacks a Rillaboom. Also features shenanigans with Future Sight and Dragapult.
  • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-158 Includes brambane's spread. Features me floundering HO, and brambane's spread tanking a +2 super effective Necturna Shadow Claw.
    • Rough calculation: +2 252 Atk Necturna Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Abomasnow: 332-392 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (super effective)
  • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-165Includes Korski's spread and quziel's spread. A replay with some vulnerabilities on display. An example of how U-turn can make things really bad, and how Nidoking's ability to keep Earth Power consistently super effective (Sheer Force does not activate Color Change) lets it keep CAP29 out. Also, this is obviously subject to my play and my choice to go max SpA/max Spe EVs, but a flimsier spread like Korski's does not handle paralysis well at all, and 110 SpA, even when fully invested, is rather mediocre.
    • +2 252+ SpA Abomasnow Scald vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Equilibra: 264-312 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (using Korski's spread)
  • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-167 Includes Korski's spread and MrDollSteak's spread. The wonders of Strength Sap.
  • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-169 Includes MrDollSteak's spread on both sides. First successful CAP29 sweep that I saw, featuring a demonstration of the mirror match. This is an example of why the initial reaction was that the mirror match was awful.
  • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-170 Includes my (kjnjkmjk1) spread and quziel's spread. Watch me get my CAP29 set up, then proceed to lose by opting into the mirror with no way to change type.
  • https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-177 Includes dex18's spread. Again, subject to my play, but a replay where CAP29 struggles to get in. I managed to live Double Iron Bash with the greedy EV spread (max SpA/max Spe), but didn't do a whole lot. Melmetal was good at keeping it out.
 
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MrDollSteak

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So I've tested out my spread a few times (I'm sorry for being selfish and having more of these replays) and have a few thoughts and replays to share.

As far as some overall observations about CAP 29 independent of spreads - I've found that (based on our existing Required and Optional Defining Moves) the set of Calm Mind, Sludge Bomb, Scald and Recover actually has a surprising amount of utility and effectiveness. It is completely hard walled by Toxapex, Arghonaut, Gastrodon and Blissey independent of spreads and is unlikely to change with any new coverage moves such as Earth Power or Boomburst (except in the case of Toxapex potentially, but even then Haze completely shuts us down). The only other thing that will consistently shut down a CAP29 that is trying to boost, irrespective of its spread are strong physical attackers that can either outspeed CAP29, or are so bulky themselves that even +1 or +2 attacks are going to do little more than tickle (ie. Melmetal).

With this in mind, I've personally found that the best way to utilise CAP 29 until the point that its counters are removed is as a defensive pivot that can come in on strong resisted or neutral attacks, heal up or hit a switch in with a Scald or Sludge Bomb in an attempt to cripple them. With this in mind, I personally am of the opinion that bulk may potentially be more important than our Speed tier in quite a few instances. Finally, CAP 29 mirrors are absolutely awful. While I'm sure these are not going to be as common on ladder as they are in testing, the fact that CAP 29 mostly checks itself completely leads to some very swingy and RNG dependent matchups with crits. While there will often be more effective courses of action than setting up against each other, I think it's still worth pointing out how irritating they are.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-172

This replay shows off both my spread and Korski's. In kj's case, CAP29 sits out of most of the match until it attempts to set up and sweep and falls victim to a crit from Doom Desire. While this makes it difficult to determine how that spread actually functions, Arghonaut would have eventually been able to come in and Circle Throw it away even after boosting. In comparison, my spread was used sufficiently throughout the match as a consistent switchin to Rillaboom, even when being Knock Offed or U-Turned on, the high level of physical tankiness allowed it a range of opportunities to come in and act as a cleric. Even though it was completely unable to set up due to the presence of Blissey, it was able to demolish kj's Heatran with a series of unboosted Scalds. In this regard, while Calm Mind was a dead slot, CAP 29 nevertheless was shown to be a fairly usable defensive pivot. Had it been running Knock Off instead of Scald for example, Blissey would have lost its boots a lot earlier, and in turn been easier to muscle through.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-174

Another replay? Another awful mirror. This particular replay demonstrates the ability for CAP29 to sweep unmitigated as a result of its bulk depending on the team's composition. As a result of its well balanced Def and SpDef before boosting it was able to take advantage of Hydreigon early and start boosting. With kf's CAP29Quziel as the only counter, and running the inferior coverage of Dark Pulse (self-resisting) and use of Substitute, it was effectively impossible for my CAP29 spread to be shut down short of a series of unlucky flinches and crit combos.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-175

While this particular replay doesn't highlight CAP 29 too much in the sense that it doesn't singlehandedly decide the game for either player, it continues to show off the ability for CAP 29 to act as a defensive pivot before being able to attempt to sweep in the late game, with my CAP 29 switching in to Rillaboom multiple times and Slowking in order to heal itself back up. Granted Zephyr was not running a dedicated counter to CAP 29 which made these lines more preferable. Furthermore the awful mirror match up is once again shown to be decided by a crit (but realistically in all the mirrors I've played Substitute is incredibly damaging as mentioned previously), that said I did have a healthy Arghonaut so it's likely I wouldn't have been swept by the Korski set either.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-176-gfjl2vgy46tjdn46bahh4w6fmyxf46ipw

This is perhaps the most interesting replay in that it shows a different build for CAP29 run by Pip using Quziel's spread that more fully leans into a utility pivot, but also a more realistic scenario of CAP29 attempting simultaneously to check Clefable, while boost itself up. Although CAP29 was not successfully able to break Clefable either time due to Moonblast's SpA reduction proccing, allowing it to be Toxiced by the opposing CAP29 in both cases, it does demonstrate the potential for CAP29 to come in as a result of its bulk, provide defensive utility and attempt a sweep. While Pipotchi did still have a fairly healthy Swampert that would have been able to shrug off a +1 Scald or Sludge Bomb, it would potentially be possible to wear down as a result of its lack of healing and both Scald and Sludge Bomb's chance to inflict further incremental damage. In both cases however, I think its clear that CAP 29 was able to put in work thanks to a mixture of defensive utility afforded by its typing and colour change.

I've also tested a few other spreads to get a sense of other ways to play CAP29.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-202

This replay I think does a lot to show how Ice Beam on Dex18's spread is a very dangerous move to have. It forgoes the need for CM quite easily as a 3 Attack Life Orb attacker, which isn't inherently anti-concept for Color Change, but certainly as far as our attempt to make a bulky set-up sweeper. Quziel also shows off a Coil build using CAP29Earl that is actually really quite powerful (rip Bulk Up instead of Coil not getting through Heatran).

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-204

This replay was designed to show off a 3 Attacking Recover Life Orb set for CAP29Dex18 (without Ice Beam) to see how it would work. Apart from forgetting to actually put Recover on it, it did some solid work, particularly with Dark Pulse against Corviknight forcing it to Recover until a flinch in effect.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-207

This replay on the other hand shows 3 Attacking Recover CAP29Dex18 isn't actually particularly effective against certain teams, and had very few opportunities to feel useful. That being said Calm Mind realistically wouldn't have helped in this matchup either.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/captest-gen8cap-214

Here I have an interesting replay testing out Ice Beam and Earth Power on Earl's CAP 29 set. The spread is designed to use Shuca Berry to lure in Ground types and break through. As you can see from the middle of the replay it was quiet successful without actually being particularly overpowered, and was still incredibly vulnerable to Toxic. Overall I think this is one of the spreads that I've felt the best playing with, though its worth taking with a pinch of salt because Earth Power isn't guaranteed, and neither is Ice Beam even if it is optional. That being said I think on a slower spread such as this, the two moves don't feel obscene.
 
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Birkal

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With this in mind, I've personally found that the best way to utilise CAP 29 until the point that its counters are removed is as a defensive pivot that can come in on strong resisted or neutral attacks, heal up or hit a switch in with a Scald or Sludge Bomb in an attempt to cripple them. With this in mind, I personally am of the opinion that bulk may potentially be more important than our Speed tier in quite a few instances.
I find this to be kind of an odd takeaway from our stat spreads submission phase. It might be important to prioritize bulk, sure, but many of the "faster" spreads still have considerable bulk, far more than other mons in the tier. kjn's spread hits 106 Speed, but has the third highest PT of any spread (slated or otherwise). quziel at 107 Speed also is a deceptively bulky spread that rivals the top tier STs, and still allows for physical sets with the highest submitted SS. Even dex18 with his 120 Speed spread fares better than some spreads in both PT and ST.

Stat spreads don't have to be a "this or that" scenario where they're compared directly against each other. Each spread has its distinct advantages and disadvantages, and I'd encourage everyone to read the submitted spreads' original posts to get an idea for which benchmarks each spread hits.

As for my own opinion, I don't really have a preference right now. These are some amazing spreads, and I think we'll have a successful project with any of them. It's been a lot of fun to watch Color Change matches and see how CAP29 uniquely squares up against specific mons. It feels like our concept is starting to come to life!
 

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