All Gens Capitalization

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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Figured I'd bring up this concept w.r.t. GSC, but then I realized it'd be relevant to all other gens so there ya go.

Across all the generations, what are some of the best Ys to capitalize off the opponent's active Xs? Ideally, the Ys switch into a very common X in the metagame, and can use the turn inevitably spent switching by the opponent to set up or attack. A couple easy ones I could think of off the bat to start discussion are below:

In RBY the best one is most certainly Snorlax for Chansey. Snorlax gets in for very little cost on an active Chansey, and then gets basically a free hit off. This matchup is complicated by Counter and made even better with Rest Snorlax. Lax is just so scary to everything in RBY, in addition to being tempted so heavily by an active Chansey, it's also the go-to switch in against sleeping mons and predicted switches to physically frail para'd mons.


In GSC, one of the better ones that has been forgotten is Tentacruel. In particular, it sets up on Cloyster, which is pretty much everywhere. It also sets up on Forretress pretty easily, covering both Spikers. Not to mention non-AA Vap, although Vap's less hyped than it once was. I recommend running a spinner alongside Druidcruel to ensure the foe's Spiker keeps coming back in. Cloyster's standard set can't touch Druidcruel; it can't be Toxic'd, and even Explosion risks merely taking out a Substitute (although HP Electric is more popular than it should be at the moment, which can complicate things by having a ~50% chance of breaking Tenta's subs). Meanwhile, +2 Sludge bombs hurt, and Hydro Pumps can at worst 3HKO most of the relevant things that aren't in turn 3HKOed by Sludge Bomb. Tentacruel was once famous, but lost its luster somewhere down the line, probably because it doesn't do a good job switching in to defend against anything, which is true. However, with Spikes being so important and both Spikers giving Tenta setup for days, it doesn't get worn down when constantly being a threat to sweep, unlike things like Marowak. Well worth a teamslot right now.
 
The idea seems pretty good but i don't 100% get it, i don't want to write something that's off topic, could you explain more clearly please?
 
This is obviously the principle used by trappers, as yeah, switch in and capitalize on your opponents short term helplessness. Hazards bases Offense also uses this, forcing switches, getting free setup lategame, etc. Interesting scenarios will definitely appear here, even though I cant think of one atm.
 
I think I get it but tell me if I'm wrong

In Gen 4, you can capitalize on your opponent Pursuit trapping your Pokemon by letting in Lucario, who has a 4x dark resist, guaranteeing at least 1 Swords Dance or Agility.

With Lucario's great offense, sometimes 1 free turn is all it takes
 
In ADV You can take advantage of people aiming raikou electric at crocune, to let in dugtrio, who can sometimes be a pain in the arse to get in otherwise, when not double-switching.
 
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Triangles

Melancholia
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In ADV You can take advantage of people aiming anything remotely electric at crocune, to let in dugtrio, who is a pain in the arse to get in otherwise.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3oubeta-153766723, somebody casually slinging out electric attacks at duggy, and getting swept for it.
this is bullshit, it only works in theory on kou and mag. however mag will rarely be faced with a cune in a real-battle scenario, as it either shown, done its trapping job and been dugged already (as you have dug), or not shown at all. doesnt work on jolt as normal jolts are faster and can drypass out. so just kou really, and if theyre switching kou into cune they have a bigger cune problem anyway...
that battle's horrible to watch - you kinda know what you're doing and you're just mugging some 12 year old lol
also dugs not a pain in the arse to get in, its called a double switch.
 
this is bullshit, it only works in theory on kou and mag. however mag will rarely be faced with a cune in a real-battle scenario, as it either shown, done its trapping job and been dugged already (as you have dug), or not shown at all. doesnt work on jolt as normal jolts are faster and can drypass out. so just kou really, and if theyre switching kou into cune they have a bigger cune problem anyway...
that battle's horrible to watch - you kinda know what you're doing and you're just mugging some 12 year old lol
also dugs not a pain in the arse to get in, its called a double switch.
So I should edit it to only kou, or do I need another angry rant?
 

Triangles

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sorry, i didnt mean for my post to come off as an angry rant lol, i just felt your post wasn't correct
 

dekzeh

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I feel like this applies to ADV Gengar capitalizing on Flygon; I'd go as far as saying the fact that Gengar switches so easily into Flygon is the only reason the gon isn't used as much.
 

Triangles

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yea bro
well, i figure i ought to bring up my own example in this post as opposed to just postin 'yea bro' so here goes

in a similar way that lax switches into chans in rby, it does the same into bliss in adv really easily, with its high hp and spdef, and utilitylax's immunity. bliss has to switch out against lax as she loses 1v1, so you'll always get a free turn to do what you want, be it try and catch something on the switch with a fire blast or a focus punch even, or curse up if you're that way inclined.
 
Oh yeah i get it now.

In DPP / BW / XY, Gliscor is a set-up fodder for gengar, it can easily around behind a substitute and being really annoying, we all know how Gengar rolls, Gengar is walling the ground/poison (eq/toxic) combination and the rare ice fang is weak as hell, the SD acrobatics in BW is the only thing a bit threatening, but it's pretty rare nowadays. Gengar is the perfect subtoxic gliscor hardcounter, and he is even better because he doesn't only counter it, he just destroys the kind of team Gliscor is played in. Gliscor is often played with Scarfttar in DPP so be careful with the U-turn sets, but besides that you are perfectly fine to switch on it.
 
I think stef0w's idea kind of works if you replace cune with gengar. Mag and raikou are relatively common secondary gar switches. Especially mag on physical offense teams. Raikou is pretty much a free switch for dug unless modest, or if dug is at less than full hp, and gar really baits tbolt/wave from mag allowing duggy to come in for free. I also think spdef skarm vs non hydro pump pert is an ok example of this in adv. Skarm can scout a hydro pump easily, it doesn't mind taking one, and if they don't have it, it just sets up spikes all day for free.
 
I think I get it but tell me if I'm wrong

In Gen 4, you can capitalize on your opponent Pursuit trapping your Pokemon by letting in Lucario, who has a 4x dark resist, guaranteeing at least 1 Swords Dance or Agility.

With Lucario's great offense, sometimes 1 free turn is all it takes
But if you switch Lucario into Pursuit, its 4x Dark resistance doesn't mean anything, as Pursuit hits the thing you're switching out, not the thing you're switching in.


RBY:
Jynx into Egg. Something's eating STAB Blizzard.
(Preferably paralysed) Raishey into non-Psychic Starmie. Free Reflect.
Dragonite into Lax/Rock EQs or non-Stun-Spore Egg. Free Agility (mostly free, anyway).
Kingler into Rocks. Free Swords Dance.
 

Jirachee

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I think I get it but tell me if I'm wrong

In Gen 4, you can capitalize on your opponent Pursuit trapping your Pokemon by letting in Lucario, who has a 4x dark resist, guaranteeing at least 1 Swords Dance or Agility.

With Lucario's great offense, sometimes 1 free turn is all it takes
this is true for some instances but not all of them.

SD Lucario doesn't take that big of an advantage from Pursuit IMO, because Scarf Scizor / Tyranitar, two of the most common Pursuiters, will also revenge kill Lucario quite easily. This means that you'll get 1 kill against those if they don't have a Lucario counter, before you get RK'd by the very same thing you set up against. I think that as a Pursuit punisher, Agility Lucario works a lot better because it takes advantage of both bulky and speedy Pursuiters.

Anyway, I think that the kind of capitalization you're talking about mostly happens with offensive Pokemon taking advantage of defensive ones, since they tend to take advantage of forced switches while defensive mons tend to be easy to switch into. One of the better examples I can think of is Specs Politoed vs Hippowdon in BW. Hippowdon's not doing much to Politoed (although EQ kinda hurts), but when Politoed comes in, it gets Hippo's Sand away, gets its own Rain, and then threatens it out. Nothing really likes switching into Politoed in the first place, but it can use either Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, or HP Grass without much risk since they will all heavily damage Hippo, giving the Politoed user an incredible advantage.
 
But if you switch Lucario into Pursuit, its 4x Dark resistance doesn't mean anything, as Pursuit hits the thing you're switching out, not the thing you're switching in.
Essentially you just sacrifice whatever you had in to bring in Lucario safely and set up to sweep.

Jirachee, let's not forget that these mons will be locked into Pursuit, and if Lucario's an Agility Variant, or Rocks are up, it can escape the scenario easily, before returning to repeat the cycle.....this means Lucario is at an advantage.

Also stef0w, I agree with Triangles, stop using god awful replays of you facing total noobs to justify your points.
 
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Yeah, completely unrelated. Usually I play against teams with a coherent structure with a bunch of A rank mons, not a team of stuff like Dragonite and other C-D rank mons. And I don't post my own replays (dont need to)
 
The message is : Don't disrespect a dude when you don't seem to be very good yourself and you must have a lot to learn
 
But if you switch Lucario into Pursuit, its 4x Dark resistance doesn't mean anything, as Pursuit hits the thing you're switching out, not the thing you're switching in.
The point is they're absolutely forced to switch out, as they won't continue to Pursuit, guaranteeing 1 turn of set up.

this is true for some instances but not all of them.

SD Lucario doesn't take that big of an advantage from Pursuit IMO, because Scarf Scizor / Tyranitar, two of the most common Pursuiters, will also revenge kill Lucario quite easily. This means that you'll get 1 kill against those if they don't have a Lucario counter, before you get RK'd by the very same thing you set up against. I think that as a Pursuit punisher, Agility Lucario works a lot better because it takes advantage of both bulky and speedy Pursuiters.
Indeed, that is why I posted Agility despite it not being as common as SD, since Scarftar handles it. Don't see enough Scarf Scizor's where it totally stops this from being a viable strategy.

This was more effective back in the day when the mons using Pursuit were Banded Tar / Scizor / Heracross

It still is effective late game though (the only time this should be done) with some layers up, as Scarftar is taking 30% from +2 Luke. It is not wise anyways to seriously set up Lucario early as everyone is running Scarftar and Glisor these days.
 

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