Metagame Champions OU Metagame Discussion

On the topic of the new Raichu megas being revealed to be added to Champions along with their abilities I think it is more than evident that Mega Raichu Y will be absurdly powerful due to a high speed and special attack stat being able to abuse a Zap Cannon, which is able to be substituted for the slightly less impressive Thunder in case of PP stall or you could just end up running both, and Focus Blast which can't miss.

What I think is more interesting though is Mega Raichu X and how I believe a special attacking set on it will end up being stronger.

252 SpA Raichu-Mega-X Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuckle in Electric Terrain: 109-130 (60.2 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Zap Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuckle: 109-130 (60.2 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Rising Voltage + Electric Terrain gained by your ability you match the damage that Mega Raichu Y is outputting exactly compared to an albeit slightly stronger Volt Tackle that is disadvantaged by 33% recoil which is particularly punishing with Raichu's low 60 base HP.

With this though I think it is important to talk about why Mega Raichu X will even be used, you may be thinking about my point but fail to see how this is any better than Mega Raichu Y and you'd be right due to Mega Raichu Y's stats being more speed focused whilst Mega Raichu X's stats being more defensive doesn't fit as well along with its coverage being far weaker.

First, if Mega Raichu Y is to be banned I definitely think that Mega Raichu X with Rising Voltage is something to both consider on your teams and look out for but even if they both remain in the tier Mega Raichu X is interesting to me due to its team synergy. Although species clause prevents you from using Alolan Raichu a would be great abuser of Electric Terrain (which is a shame honestly) Sneasler and Hawlucha will be able to use Electric Seed to success paired with their Unburden abilities and while I know that the seeds aren't currently in the game I have a sneaking suspicion they'll add them in the same update as they're an integral part to how terrains are played bar maybe Psychic Terrain which has the strongest effect along with plenty of Expanding Force abusers.

Overall both Raichus look more than strong, especially in a tier with such few Ground-types with the two ranked in OU being able to be circumvented by Mega Raichu Y with Alluring Voice for Garchomp on a switch twice or after a Nasty Plot and Focus Blast for Excadrill. Although Mega Raichu X can struggle with this it can achieve similar power and likely destroy teams after the Ground-types that are immune to its STABs are taken out.

All I can say when looking at Zap Cannon + No Guard on Mega Raichu Y is that I'm glad paralysis was nerfed. Still though, it means that anything that isn't a Ground-type is barely a switch in and especially so Pokémon that rely on their speed.
 
b2j135 said:
Bulky mons? I dunno, I just thought it'd be interesting
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I mean
- 32 SpA Mega Raichu Y Zap Cannon vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 90-106 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You're 2HKOing even the bulkiest non-resists. I guess you can go tango with grass types but I'd think you'd rather switch out.
 
What the hell were they thinking?
RaiX got E surge with Ig is cool but Ychu cannot be legal day one
The problem isn't the ability right away: it's the movepool and stats. 160 And 130 speed is such good cleaning. You don't always need the boost from plot to win games either. The frailty might be enough along with no boltbeam to keep it in ou but I demand we loco koko this the second it comes out.
If it is legal I do hope this means HO will start to grow. We might have needed this but I have doubts.
 
GameFreak has been waiting ages to make something Pikachu-adjacent that is uncontestably strong as shit and the Raichus are perfect for that role.

Some sets + thoughts
Raichu-Mega-X @ Raichunite X
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 32 SpA / 2 SpD / 32 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rising Voltage
- Surf
- Alluring Voice/Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot

90 Base Special Attack is pretty sad but the combo of Rising Voltage and auto-terrain is enough to salvage it, the damage you deal with your Electric moves is quite impressive and after a nasty plot very few Pokemon can comfortably switch in, with hazards up it can get extremely scary.

+2 32 SpA Raichu Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 32 HP / 32+ SpD Slowking-Galar in Electric Terrain: 163-193 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
32 SpA Raichu Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 32 HP / 1 SpD Unaware Skeledirge in Electric Terrain: 153-180 (72.5 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
+2 32 SpA Raichu Alluring Voice vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Hydrapple: 170-200 (79.8 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 32 SpA Raichu Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meganium-Mega in Electric Terrain: 108-127 (69.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

+2 32 SpA Raichu Alluring Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 164-194 (89.6 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 32 SpA Raichu Alluring Voice vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 164-194 (76.2 - 90.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Bulky Grass-types are a good defense against RaiX as you're best move is Alluring Voice, which is nonSTAB 80 BP and mostly to bully Dragons, but chip down the opposing team and it can definitely get the job done.
Raichu-Mega-X @ Raichunite X
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 2 HP / 32 Atk / 32 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch

Makes use of the actually good attacking stat, the damage is generally worse than what the Rising Voltage set can accomplish but requires no setup to use which is a nice plus. You take unholy amounts of damage from recoil unfortunately, and Garchomp takes very little while chipping you in return. It's probably the weaker of the two sets.
Raichu-Mega-Y @ Raichunite Y
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 2 Def / 32 SpA / 32 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder/Zap Cannon
- Focus Blast/Alluring Voice
- Surf
- Nasty Plot/Substitute

Thunder's higher PP and comparable damage to Zap Cannon makes me think it might be better overall, but Zap Cannon has a place for sure with 100% Paralysis. Focus Blast and Surf is good coverage all around, you don't need Fairy Coverage for things like Chomp since Blast does a ton anyway, but you definitely could to improve odds. Nasty Plot lets you go full nuclear, while Sub eases predictions and can protect you against Revenge Killers coming in after an attempted sack. Maybe a set can use both? You could probably fit Encore somewhere as well, the Speed is there to make good use of it.
 
Shocking Canari said:
What the hell were they thinking?
RaiX got E surge with Ig is cool but Ychu cannot be legal day one
The problem isn't the ability right away: it's the movepool and stats. 160 And 130 speed is such good cleaning. You don't always need the boost from plot to win games either. The frailty might be enough along with no boltbeam to keep it in ou but I demand we loco koko this the second it comes out.
If it is legal I do hope this means HO will start to grow. We might have needed this but I have doubts.
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I can't see any way it remains in ou. Those stats are crazy and if it wasn't for zap cannon then maybe it would be fine but zap cannon is busted. And it may not have bolt beam but don't forget it has surf so it can hit ground types still. And no miss focus blast

Was excited to have a no guard focus blast user, to bad it won't be usable lol
 
Gigabowser20 said:
I can't see any way it remains in ou. Those stats are crazy and if it wasn't for zap cannon then maybe it would be fine but zap cannon is busted. And it may not have bolt beam but don't forget it has surf so it can hit ground types still. And no miss focus blast

Was excited to have a no guard focus blast user, to bad it won't be usable lol
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ahem
 

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swordisbored said:
On the topic of the new Raichu megas being revealed to be added to Champions along with their abilities I think it is more than evident that Mega Raichu Y will be absurdly powerful due to a high speed and special attack stat being able to abuse a Zap Cannon, which is able to be substituted for the slightly less impressive Thunder in case of PP stall or you could just end up running both, and Focus Blast which can't miss.

What I think is more interesting though is Mega Raichu X and how I believe a special attacking set on it will end up being stronger.

252 SpA Raichu-Mega-X Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuckle in Electric Terrain: 109-130 (60.2 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Zap Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shuckle: 109-130 (60.2 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With Rising Voltage + Electric Terrain gained by your ability you match the damage that Mega Raichu Y is outputting exactly compared to an albeit slightly stronger Volt Tackle that is disadvantaged by 33% recoil which is particularly punishing with Raichu's low 60 base HP.

With this though I think it is important to talk about why Mega Raichu X will even be used, you may be thinking about my point but fail to see how this is any better than Mega Raichu Y and you'd be right due to Mega Raichu Y's stats being more speed focused whilst Mega Raichu X's stats being more defensive doesn't fit as well along with its coverage being far weaker.

First, if Mega Raichu Y is to be banned I definitely think that Mega Raichu X with Rising Voltage is something to both consider on your teams and look out for but even if they both remain in the tier Mega Raichu X is interesting to me due to its team synergy. Although species clause prevents you from using Alolan Raichu a would be great abuser of Electric Terrain (which is a shame honestly) Sneasler and Hawlucha will be able to use Electric Seed to success paired with their Unburden abilities and while I know that the seeds aren't currently in the game I have a sneaking suspicion they'll add them in the same update as they're an integral part to how terrains are played bar maybe Psychic Terrain which has the strongest effect along with plenty of Expanding Force abusers.

Overall both Raichus look more than strong, especially in a tier with such few Ground-types with the two ranked in OU being able to be circumvented by Mega Raichu Y with Alluring Voice for Garchomp on a switch twice or after a Nasty Plot and Focus Blast for Excadrill. Although Mega Raichu X can struggle with this it can achieve similar power and likely destroy teams after the Ground-types that are immune to its STABs are taken out.

All I can say when looking at Zap Cannon + No Guard on Mega Raichu Y is that I'm glad paralysis was nerfed. Still though, it means that anything that isn't a Ground-type is barely a switch in and especially so Pokémon that rely on their speed.
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We'll just have to wait for the releases & see. It's ~kinda like a glorified Mega Delphox but a bit slower & 1 extra point in SPA, but like every breaker, they fall the same. i.e., Revenge Killed by a scarf user/natural speed checks (Draco Meteor + Dragon Fang Dragapult, M. Delphox, Mega Lopunny, Aerodactyl, etc. Items like the Choice Cores & Assault Vest could also release for more consistency.) Focus Sash Revenge Killers, Encore Traps (Admittedly Unorthodox, but anti-metum players are typical risks to consider). There are niche instances where an unaware user, like Spdf Clefable, can shut it down before it gets a chance to try its gimmick, too.

But again, it's more so just waiting for what all releases with them & seeing. Spdf Clodsire could see a massive tick in usage if it releases with them, for instance.
 
SX SAD. said:
We'll just have to wait for the releases & see. It's ~kinda like a glorified Mega Delphox but a bit slower & 1 extra point in SPA, but like every breaker, they fall the same. i.e., Revenge Killed by a scarf user/natural speed checks (Draco Meteor + Dragon Fang Dragapult, M. Delphox, Mega Lopunny, Aerodactyl, etc. Items like the Choice Cores & Assault Vest could also release for more consistency.) Focus Sash Revenge Killers, Encore Traps (Admittedly Unorthodox, but anti-metum players are typical risks to consider). There are niche instances where an unaware user, like Spdf Clefable, can shut it down before it gets a chance to try its gimmick, too.

But again, it's more so just waiting for what all releases with them & seeing. Spdf Clodsire could see a massive tick in usage if it releases with them, for instance.
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Theres a pretty big difference vs Delphox though -raichu has a perfect accuracy guarantee paralyze with 120 power. That's pretty crazy, and I think people are under looking the fact it is a 100% paralyze. If it just had thunder and focus blast I imagine it wouldn't be so bad but with this....if people were convinced mega Dragonite with no guard would be to good for the much stronger za ou ladder because of zap cannon then I cant imagine Raichu y with higher speed, higher special attack, and stab will be manageable
 
Gigabowser20 said:
Theres a pretty big difference vs Delphox though -raichu has a perfect accuracy guarantee paralyze with 120 power. That's pretty crazy, and I think people are under looking the fact it is a 100% paralyze. If it just had thunder and focus blast I imagine it wouldn't be so bad but with this....if people were convinced mega Dragonite with no guard would be to good for the much stronger za ou ladder because of zap cannon then I cant imagine Raichu y with higher speed, higher special attack, and stab will be manageable
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Granted, the paralysis factor doesnt matter to any of those listed countermeasures (minus clef & electric vulnerable sash mons), the thought of such easy para spreading is definitely a scary addition to the game, I can agree
 
SX SAD. said:
Granted, the paralysis factor doesnt matter to any of those listed countermeasures (minus clef & electric vulnerable sash mons), the thought of such easy para spreading is definitely a scary addition to the game, I can agree
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Don't things like mega lopunny and Aerodactyl that were mentioned kinda hate being para still? I feel like the speed drops still punishing them pretty badly
 
Gigabowser20 said:
Don't things like mega lopunny and Aerodactyl that were mentioned kinda hate being para still? I feel like the speed drops still punishing them pretty badly
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It should be fine if you don't Hardswitch them in. Mega aero has eq and mega lop can kill with fake out into cc. On top of that base Lop has Limber and same special bulk as it's mega. Still a hard mu but not impossible and I'd argue less favorable for Ychu.
 
SX SAD. said:
We'll just have to wait for the releases & see. It's ~kinda like a glorified Mega Delphox but a bit slower & 1 extra point in SPA, but like every breaker, they fall the same. i.e., Revenge Killed by a scarf user/natural speed checks (Draco Meteor + Dragon Fang Dragapult, M. Delphox, Mega Lopunny, Aerodactyl, etc. Items like the Choice Cores & Assault Vest could also release for more consistency.) Focus Sash Revenge Killers, Encore Traps (Admittedly Unorthodox, but anti-metum players are typical risks to consider). There are niche instances where an unaware user, like Spdf Clefable, can shut it down before it gets a chance to try its gimmick, too.

But again, it's more so just waiting for what all releases with them & seeing. Spdf Clodsire could see a massive tick in usage if it releases with them, for instance.
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The thing is that with mega raichu is it’s going to be backed by a corv gking or whatever defensive pivot so it can just switch out and come back later to para smth. With plot it leaves you in a tricky 50/50 where you can switch into a bulky mon like glowking or gchomp expecting the zap cannon but they plot and suddenly your check isn’t doing much checking, or you can switch into your revenge killer like dpult but if they click zap then you have nothing to revenge ko it. It nigh always forces positive trades and at the very least is going to get a para, which is what separates it from other breakers while being strong and fast with set up
 
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sheepie said:
The thing is that with mega raichu is it’s going to be backed by a corv gking or whatever defensive pivot so it can just switch out and come back later to para smth. With plot it leaves you in a tricky 50/50 where you can switch into a bulky mon like glowking or gchomp expecting the zap cannon but they plot and suddenly your check isn’t doing much checking, or you can switch into your revenge killer like dpult but if they click zap then you have nothing to revenge ko it. It nigh always forces positive trades and at the very least is going to get a para, which is what separates it from other breakers while being strong and fast with set up
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That dynamic is how every breaker ever has operated. Turns for moves like Nasty Plot & Swords Dance aren't always as free as they seem, and the pivot argument cuts both ways. Corviknight and Galarian Slowking backing it up is a likely core, but such pivots create their own exploitable patterns that have cost players many games. The same game-defining switch 50/50s have been around since the beginning.

"or you can switch into your revenge killer like dpult but if they click zap then you have nothing to revenge ko it." Not sure what you mean by this, since Pult outright KO's Raichu before it can use that Zap Cannon. "Nasty Plot, making your check not do much checking." Every offensive threat with a setup move creates this exact dynamic. Mega Charizard X versus a physical check creates identical 50/50s. Switched out to Toxapex expecting the Flare Blitz? Now your check isn't a check because it's getting 2 shot by a +1 earthquake now. That's a fundamental trait of setup moves in singles. May as well construct an argument to ban boosting itself at that point.

(also, use unaware if you hate boost 50/50s)
 
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Gigabowser20 said:
Theres a pretty big difference vs Delphox though -raichu has a perfect accuracy guarantee paralyze with 120 power. That's pretty crazy, and I think people are under looking the fact it is a 100% paralyze. If it just had thunder and focus blast I imagine it wouldn't be so bad but with this....if people were convinced mega Dragonite with no guard would be to good for the much stronger za ou ladder because of zap cannon then I cant imagine Raichu y with higher speed, higher special attack, and stab will be manageable
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Mega Delphox is already debatably a suspect worthy mon and debatably broken but raichu y is absolutely more broken
but raichu y has para cheese on top of having basically no switch ins and doesn't even always have to nasty plot where Delphox at least needs one setup turn to get out of hand in comparison.
 
not to say Fire Blast is unusable on Mega Delphox, but Flamethrower and Psychic are its most commonly hard hitting attacks, hitting that 135 BP after STAB that Mega Raichu Y puts to shame with its special, paralyzing Close Combats
 
Gigabowser20 said:
I can't see any way it remains in ou. Those stats are crazy and if it wasn't for zap cannon then maybe it would be fine but zap cannon is busted. And it may not have bolt beam but don't forget it has surf so it can hit ground types still. And no miss focus blast

Was excited to have a no guard focus blast user, to bad it won't be usable lol
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There's a reason I say maybe buddy. If people start running spdef chomp or rune then it could stay. If we get a check in the new wave of mons then it would stay too. This thing is frail enough to die to espeed from dnite at +1 with silk scarf. Don't be jumping to conclusions when this thing is a Clodsire victim
 
Clodsire is not in the game yet and Runerigus' bum is currently sitting in UU
+2 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Runerigus: 318-376 (99.3 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
fraud doesn't even eat a +2 Surf without Passho
+2 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Alluring Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 326-384 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Alluring Voice chunks Garchomp but it's not an OHKO so that's something I suppose

assuming we do not get any new metagame additions, I believe offensively checking Mega Raichu Y is going to determine whether it stays or goes as at the moment I do not see much of anything that could answer it defensively, let alone anything like Dragonite if it's forced to eat one Zap Cannon
 
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