Charmander [QC 3/3]

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I CRUSH EVERYTHING

Overview
########
-cute
-decent speed and offenses
-has niche in being the only fire-type with solar power, which makes its STAB Fire Blast one of the strongest attacks in the tier
-outclassed by other fire-types outside of solar power and dragon dance
-suffers from weakness to Stealth Rock and vulnerability to many forms of priority, which doesn't help its poor bulk and defensive typing (which is redundant with Vulpix)
-power lacking without sun up

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Ancientpower / Flamethrower
move 4: Dragon Pulse / Flamethrower
ability: Solar Power
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 44 HP / 12 Def / 200 SpA / 236 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
========
-Fire Blast, combined with sun, STAB, and Solar Power destroys everything except the bulkiest of resists and Flash Fire pokemon, even 2HKOing Eviolite bulky attacking Chinchou and Skrelp. The vast majority of the time, this is the move Charmander will want to use.
-Hidden Power Electric destroys Mantyke and OHKOs Shell Smash Tirtouga after Sturdy has been broken, as well as getting a solid it on Archen but Hidden Power Grass can be used to guarantee the KO on defensive Tirtouga and Eviolite Omanyte, as well as smacking Chinchou, Wooper, and Onix
-Ancientpower hits Flash Fire Houndour and Ponyta
-Dragon Pulse hits Tyrunt , as well as hitting other Dragons like Axew and Dratini
Flamethrower can be used for accuracy when Fire Blast's power is unneeded

Set Details
========

-Modest's power is helpful for powering through bulky pokemon, as the added power allows Charmander's Fire Blast to always 2HKOing Eviolite bulky attacker Chinchou and OHKOing defensive Gligar after Stealth Rock. With Modest, Charmander reaches an impressive 24 speed, enough to outspeed every unboosted pokemon in Little Cup.
-With Timid, Charmander reaches 17 speed, enough to outspeed Tirtouga after a Shell Smash, Adamant Carvanha after one speed boost, and Scarf Chinchou, Mienfoo, and Pawniard, although the latter three will KO you if you lose the speed tie. The power loss is quite noticeable, however.
-Max SpA and speed to hit hard, rest focused on physical defense to take priority hits

Usage Tips
========

-Use it in sun, or it can't OHKO everything
-Try to bring in Charmander safely with a slow VoltTurn user or after a teammate is KO'd, it needs all the health it can get to take priority hits, especially with a SR weakness and Solar Power damage

Team Options
========

-Heat Rock Vulpix is almost mandatory to provide sun to boost Charmander's Fire Blasts, it also lures switch-ins to Fire-types and hits them with Energy Ball, Will-o-Wisp, or Hypnosis
-Chlorophyll sweepers synergize well with Charmander, using Sleep Powder on special walls and removing Rock-, Ground-, and Water-types who threaten Charmander while Charmander blasts away Steel- and Grass-types
-Charmander appreciates both Stealth Rock setters to guarantee OHKOs and Rapid Spinners or Defog users to remove enemy hazards that plague Charmander. Bronzor resists Ground, Rock, and even Water in sun, and can set up Stealth Rock, as well as OHKOing Gligar with Hidden Power Ice. Gligar is immune to Ground and has access to both Stealth Rock and Defog, while using a fast U-turn to let Charmander switch in to Ice attakcs. Ferroseed can set up hazards and easily switches in on Tirtouga, Omanyte, Tyrunt lacking Fire Fang, Hippopotas, and Mantyke, and either KO them with Bullet Seed or Iron Head, or cripple them with Thunder Wave
-Secondary sun setters are helpful in case Vulpix goes down. Cottonee is particularly useful, as it can switch in on Ground- and Water-type moves and uses Prankster Sunny Day to set up quickly, has Stun Spore to cripple faster revengers, and can use Memento to give Charmander a free switch-in

Boosting Sweeper
########
name: Boosting Sweeper
move 1: Flame Charge / Dragon Dance
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Hidden Power Electric / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Dragon Pulse / Ancientpower
ability: Solar Power
item: Berry Juice / Life Orb
evs: 44 HP / 12 Def / 200 SpA / 236 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

Moves
========
-Flame Charge raises speed and does chip damage to break Sturdy and Focus Sash, while lowering the enemy's health but usually not activating Berry Juice.
-Dragon Dance is an option to outspeed and KO Flash Fire pokemon, as well as bluffing a mixed or physical set
-Fire Blast destroys everything except 4x resists, Munchlax, and Flash Fire pokemon
-Hidden Power Electric destroys Mantyke and OHKOs Shell Smash Tirtouga after Sturdy has been broken, but Hidden Power Grass can be used to guarantee the KO on defensive Tirtouga and Eviolite Omanyte if not using Life Orb
-Ancientpower hits Flash Fire Houndour and Ponyta, and aways OHKO's Mantyke after Steath Rock with Life Orb and Modest
-Dragon Pulse hits Tyrunt, as well as hitting other Dragons like Axew and Dratini

Set Details
========

-Modest's power is helpful for powering through bulky pokemon, as the added power allows Charmander's Fire Blast to always 2HKOing Eviolite bulky attacker Chinchou and OHKOing defensive Gligar after Stealth Rock without Life Orb, and OHKOing Berry Juice Chinchou and 2HKOing Resttalk Chinchou, Resttalk Mantyke, and Shellos after Stealth Rock with Life Orb
-With Timid, Charmander reaches 17 speed, enough to outspeed Tirtouga after a Shell Smash, Adamant Carvanha after one speed boost, and Scarf Chinchou, Mienfoo, and Pawniard, although the latter three will KO you if you lose the speed tie. The power loss is quite noticeable, however.
-Max SpA and Speed to hit hard and fast, rest in attack or defense
-Be sure to run no HP EVs and 2 HP IVs when using Life Orb, to minimize recoil while still attaining a maximum base power Hidden Power
-Berry Juice lets Charmander better take priority hits and compensate for Solar Power recoil, but Life Orb lets Charmander breeze past bulky pokemon that could formerly take its hits

Usage Tips
========

-Use it in sun or it can't OHKO everything
-Try to bring in Charmander safely with a slow VoltTurn user or after a teammate is KO'd, it needs all the health it can get to take priority hits,especially with a SR weakness, Solar Power damage, and Life Orb recoil
-This set is even more weak to priority, so be sure to bring it out late game when priority users are removed
-Charmander can set up while forcing a Grass, Steel, Bug, or Fairy out with the threat of a Scarf Fire Blast, or just KO'ing something at low health with Sun-boosted Flame Charge, which hits surprisingly strong considering no investment

Team Options
========

-Heat Rock Vulpix is almost mandatory to provide sun to boost Charmander's Fire Blasts, it also lures switch-ins to Fire-types and hits them with Energy Ball, Will-o-Wisp, or Hypnosis
-Chlorophyll sweepers synergize well with Charmander, using Sleep Powder on special walls and removing Rock-, Ground-, and Water-types who threaten Charmander while Charmander blasts away Steel- and Grass-types
-Charmander appreciates both Stealth Rock setters to guarantee OHKOs and Rapid Spinners or Defog users to remove enemy hazards that plague Charmander. Bronzor resists Ground, Rock, and even Water in sun, and can set up Stealth Rock, as well as OHKOing Gligar with Hidden Power Ice. Gligar is immune to Ground and has access to both Stealth Rock and Defog, while using a fast U-turn to let Charmander switch in to Ice attakcs. Ferroseed can set up hazards and easily switches in on Tirtouga, Omanyte, Tyrunt lacking Fire Fang, Hippopotas, and Mantyke, and either KO them with Bullet Seed or Iron Head, or cripple them with Thunder Wave
-Secondary sun setters are helpful in case Vulpix goes down. Cottonee is particularly useful, as it can switch in on Ground- and Water-type moves and uses Prankster Sunny Day to set up quickly, has Stun Spore to cripple faster revengers, and can use Memento to give Charmander a free switch-in.

Other Options
########

-Charmander has access to Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, and Belly Drum, alongside an impressive physical movepool including Flare Blitz, Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, Rock Slide, Brick Break, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, and Quick Attack, but physical moves don't get a Solar Power boost, Fire Punch is too weak, Flare Blitz recoil on top of a Stealth Rock weakness and possible Life Orb recoil means it dies too fast and is incredibly weak to priority, and it suffers from crippling 4mss
-Brick Break can be used on a mixed Dragon Dance set to kill Munchlax while still hitting Tirtouga and Tyrunt, but Charmander needs max investment and a Life Orb to always OHKO Berry Juice Munchlax after Stealth Rock with Brick Break at +1, which leaves no room for special investment
-Substitute can be run to block priority hits and revenging from faster pokemon, but the accumulated damage from Life Orb, Solar Power, and Substitute makes Charmander too fragile
-Focus Punch can be run along with Substitute, requiring only 20 EVs and Life Orb to OHKO Berry Juice Munchlax
-Will-o-Wisp can be used to surprise priority users, especially Sucker Punch users like Pawniard, but it can leave holes in coverage
-Air Cutter, Hidden Power Fighting, and Hidden Power Ground are other options, but they are weaker when 2x super effective than a 2x resisted Fire Blast in sun, and they don't hit 4x resists significantly, so they're generally inferior options

Checks & Counters
########

-Stealth Rock limits the amount of switch-ins and sweeping time Charmander has
-Munchlax can eat anything except Focus Punch and OHKO back with Earthquake
-Tirtouga can switch in on Scarf Fire Blast and set up Shell Smash, but if its Sturdy has been broken by Flame Charge, Stealth Rock, or a non-Choiced Fire Blast, a follow up Hidden Power will KO it
-Omanyte can also take Fire Blasts and set up Shell Smash or hazards, but Life Orb Hidden Power Electric usually KO's it after Stealth Rock, and Hidden Power Grass always does
-Tyrunt can take Fire Blasts with ease and OHKO back with Stone Edge, as well as set up Stealth Rock, but it fears Dragon Pulse
-Flash Fire pokemon like Ponyta and Houndour can switch in on Flame Charge or Fire Blast for free and threaten it with Wild Charge or Sucker Punch, but are both OHKO'd by Solar Power Life Orb Ancientpower
-Mantyke can take Scarf Fire Blasts with its amazing Special Defense and set up Rain Dance, or just destroy Charmander with Hydro Pump, but it fears HP Electric, Life Orb Ancientpower OHKOs after Stealth Rock, and Life Orb Fire Blast has a fairly good chance of OHKOing too
-Resttalk Chinchou and other bulky Water- and Rock-types like Shellos and Archen, can take Scarf Fire Blasts and hit back with Scald or Rock Slide, but they all get 2HKOed by LO Fire Blast (and, without Eviolite, Chinchou and Archen get OHKO'd by it)
-Specially defensive Hippopotas can take two Scarf Fire Blasts after sun is replaced by Sandstorm and OHKO back with Earthquake, but it is almost always 2HKO'd by Life Orb Fire Blast
-Strong priority users like Pawniard and Bunnelby can easily revenge Charmander, especially after Stealth Rock and Solar Power recoil, unless it's behind a Substitute
-Snover can switch in after Charmander has KO'd something and cripple it by replacing Sun with Hail, but if it switches in on a Fire attack it's toast
 
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Corporal Levi

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You mentioned Hidden Power Electric in the description for the Choice Scarf set but didn't actually include it in the moveset.
 
You mentioned Hidden Power Electric in the description for the Choice Scarf set but didn't actually include it in the moveset.
Whoops, thanks.

What about a Dragon Dance set?
-Charmander has access to Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, and Belly Drum, alongside an impressive physical movepool including Flare Blitz, Fire Punch, Thunderpunch, Rock Slide, Brick Break, Shadow Claw, Dragon Claw, and Quick Attack, but physical moves don't get a Solar Power boost, Flare Blitz recoil sucks, Fire Punch is too weak
...and it's also really weak to priority. Physical Charmander has to use Flare Blitz to get similar amounts of power compared to Solar Power Fire Blast, after a Dragon Dance, and Flare Blitz recoil on top of a Stealth Rock weakness makes it incredibly hard to sweep. Physical Charmander also has huge 4mss, Dragon Dance / [Flare Blitz / Fire Punch] / Thunderpunch / [Rock Slide / Brick Break / Quick Attack] leaves you open to a lot of threats depending on what coveage moves you use. It's just less reliable, even if Dragon Dance is really cool. And Charmander is too slow to use Belly Drum / Swords Dance / Hone Claws / Howl / Power-up Punch.
 
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prem

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Honestly this analysis is so perfect i love it. only like 2 things that can be even considered a problem
  • say how hp grass hits chinchou. if bulky chinchou ever comes back (it should one day) then it cant take fire blasts for days and hp electric doesnt help. also ancient power hits mantyke so hp electric feels like less of a necessity. i mean i know you are basicaly only pressing fire blast but stilll
  • you mention you want sr and then either rs / defog support. kinda hard to have both sr and defog (not hard to have but kinda redundant). just me complaining i dont think it it matters much
  • i guess mention mantyke in checks and counters if you mentioned other things like that. also chinchou should get a mention.

okay that was 3 but honestly this is just so perfect ilu



1/3
 
It'd probably be helpful if you made mentions of Charmander's exact Speed stat when appropriate. (16 if Modest, 17 if Timid, 24 if Modest +1, 25 if Timid +1)

Your usage tips could go a bit more indepth. Mention in Scarf that most of the time you just want to nuke shit with your extremely powerful Fire Blast, and talk about how you set up Flame Charge on Charmander (send it in on a slower Pokemon that is in KO range etc).
 

Rowan

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Is it really worth running Dragon Dance just for Flash Fire pokemon which are pretty rare (Vulpix preferes drought, Growlithe preferes intimidate, Pony prefers flame body, houndour is rare and often uses early bird) on an all-special set? seems a bit stupid to me...
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
  • You should definitely emphasize how underwhelming Charmander is outside of Sun, and that it almost absolutely needs it in order to be good at what what these sets design for it. A significant problem is not only that Charmander's potency is largely dependent on Sun, but also that Sun turns run out this generation even if another weather is not brought in.
  • Heat Rock Vulpix should be the most highly suggested support partner in Team Options, as per my previous point here. It's not always easy to switch Vulpix out and get Charmander in without taking too much damage, and still have turns remaining to do anything significant, especially since Choice Scarf means no Eviolite or Berry Juice to soften the hits Charmander takes as it comes in. I know you already mentioned Vulpix, but there needs to be emphasis placed on the need for Heat Rock on it for these reasons.
  • Why not a slash for Flare Blitz beside Fire Blast if you're going to use Dragon Dance? I know Charmander's primary offense is special but it's kind of a waste for Dragon Dance to boost Attack if it can't benefit from the offensive buff it provides.
  • Numel walls Charmander significantly well and deserves a special mention in Checks & Counters as a setup sweeper that also functions in Sun.
  • Add specially defensive Hippo to Checks & Counters as a solid counter, as it can take a non-Sun boosted hit upon coming in and replacing Sun with Sand before any attack connects, and take another one without dying, while threatening with a OKHO from STAB Earthquake and also has Slack Off to heal off damage on the free turn Charmander gives it by fleeing. To see the new specially defensive Hippopotas set proposed in its new Generation VI analysis, click here.
196 SpA Charmander Fire Blast vs. 132 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

196 SpA Charmander Hidden Power Grass vs. 132 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO

20 Atk Hippopotas Earthquake vs. 44 HP / 12 Def Charmander: 30-36 (142.8 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO




Also, for future reference (there was some confusion about this earlier), the correct way to add the name of each set is to list the set over where it says "SET NAME" in the template, as well as under the ######## line next to the "name" label, like so:

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1:
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:
ability:
item:
evs:
nature:




Very good work! QC 2/3 ♥
 
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Honestly this analysis is so perfect i love it. only like 2 things that can be even considered a problem
  • say how hp grass hits chinchou. if bulky chinchou ever comes back (it should one day) then it cant take fire blasts for days and hp electric doesnt help. also ancient power hits mantyke so hp electric feels like less of a necessity. i mean i know you are basicaly only pressing fire blast but stilll
  • you mention you want sr and then either rs / defog support. kinda hard to have both sr and defog (not hard to have but kinda redundant). just me complaining i dont think it it matters much
  • i guess mention mantyke in checks and counters if you mentioned other things like that. also chinchou should get a mention.
Prem, changes added, but RestTalk Chinchou actually can't switch into LO Charmander, even without HP Grass.

252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 76 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Chinchou in Sun: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Hidden Power Grass vs. 76 HP / 228 SpD Eviolite Chinchou in Sun: 13-18 (52 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm actually going to switch the set back to having HP Electric as the primary option, since it actually OHKOs Mantyke (and Fire Blast doesn't).

Also not changing SR + Defog thing because I don't think it's a big deal either, but if QC has a problem I will.

Is it really worth running Dragon Dance just for Flash Fire pokemon which are pretty rare (Vulpix preferes drought, Growlithe preferes intimidate, Pony prefers flame body, houndour is rare and often uses early bird) on an all-special set? seems a bit stupid to me...
I think Ponyta and Houndour are pretty common with Flash Fire on opposing Drought teams. At least Ponyta is. I use Houndour T_T

Iunno, I'm learning towards removing it. I originally had Rock Slide / Brick Break to kill Mantyke and Fire-types before I realized LO Ancientpower already did that and Charmander can't kill Munchlax even with Brick Break without max investment. Bluffing physical set would probably be better if Charmander didn't OHKO everything in the game, but it does, so the psychology isn't that important, I guess.

  • You should definitely emphasize how underwhelming Charmander is outside of Sun, and that it almost absolutely needs it in order to be good at what what these sets design for it. A significant problem is not only that Charmander's potency is largely dependent on Sun, but also that Sun turns run out this generation even if another weather is not brought in.
  • Heat Rock Vulpix should be the most highly suggested support partner in Team Options, as per my previous point here. It's not always easy to switch Vulpix out and get Charmander in without taking too much damage, and still have turns remaining to do anything significant, especially since Choice Scarf means no Eviolite or Berry Juice to soften the hits Charmander takes as it comes in. I know you already mentioned Vulpix, but there needs to be emphasis placed on the need for Heat Rock on it for these reasons.
  • Why not a slash for Flare Blitz beside Fire Blast if you're going to use Dragon Dance? I know Charmander's primary offense is special but it's kind of a waste for Dragon Dance to boost Attack if it can't benefit from the offensive buff it provides.
  • Numel walls Charmander significantly well and deserves a special mention in Checks & Counters as a setup sweeper that also functions in Sun.
  • Add specially defensive Hippo to Checks & Counters as a solid counter, as it can take a non-Sun boosted hit upon coming in and replacing Sun with Sand before any attack connects, and take another one without dying, while threatening with a OKHO from STAB Earthquake and also has Slack Off to heal off damage on the free turn Charmander gives it by fleeing. To see the new specially defensive Hippopotas set proposed in its new Generation VI analysis, click here.
196 SpA Charmander Fire Blast vs. 132 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

196 SpA Charmander Hidden Power Grass vs. 132 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO

20 Atk Hippopotas Earthquake vs. 44 HP / 12 Def Charmander: 30-36 (142.8 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Very good work! QC 2/3 ♥

What does Flare Blitz hit that Fire Blast doesn't? The only thing I can see is OHKOing Berry Juice Mantyke with +1, Adamant, and Life Orb. Solar Power only boosts Special Attack, you know.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Charmander Flare Blitz vs. 76 HP / 36 Def Mantyke in Sun: 22-27 (100 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Ancient Power vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke in Sun: 16-21 (72.7 - 95.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Hidden Power Electric vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke in Sun: 31-42 (140.9 - 190.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Mantyke in Sun: 16-18 (72.7 - 81.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Flare Blitz recoil is too large of a downside for gaining basically nothing. Charmander is weaker with max Attack and a Dragon Dance than just with max SpA and Solar Power. Charmander's physical movepool seems very impressive, but its special movepool covers everything Charmander needs to hit anyway, except killing Munchlax. And 1v1ing Munchlax is not worth killing yourself after two Flare Blitzes. Although I suppose I should say that the advantage of DD is Brick Breaking Munchlax in OO.

Also, I've already mentioned Vulpix in team options, although I should talk about Heat Rock. I already mentioned SpD Hippo, too, and it's not as solid of a counter as you say it is...

252+ SpA Life Orb Charmander Fire Blast vs. 132 HP / 180+ SpD Eviolite Hippopotas: 12-16 (48 - 64%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO

And neither is Numel.

252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 196 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Numel in Sun: 16-18 (64 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 196 HP / 156 SpD Eviolite Numel in Sun: 12-14 (48 - 56%) -- 60.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Numel in Sun: 25-30 (113.6 - 136.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Solar Power Charmander Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Numel in Sun: 19-23 (86.3 - 104.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Nobody runs RestTalk Numel, anyway. Regular Flame Charge Simple Growth Numel gets destroyed by Charmander, so I'm not gonna put it in Checks and Counters, unless you REALLY think that RestTalk Numel is good enough and common enough to warrant a mention.

Also yeah, I can mention it's shitty without sun a bunch more times.

EDIT: changes made~
 
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Ray Jay

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Looks fantastic! Only thing I noticed is that it says "Choice Scarf" above the boosting sweeper set. Fix that, QC 3/3
 
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