UU Chesnaught

[Epikhairz]

QC: Limitless / FLCL / Meru
GP: fleurdyleurse / GatoDelFuego

Skeleton

Overview
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• One of the best bulky spikers in the metagame
• Good ability in Bulletproof
• Amazing Defense stat
• Great support movepool
• Slow
• Weak to common types such as Fire
• Low Special Defense

Defensive Spikes
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name: Defensive Spikes
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Synthesis / Spiky Shield
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Wood Hammer
ability: Bulletproof
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Impish

Moves
========

• Standard Chesnaught
• Synthesis for recovery, as Chesnaught does get worn down easily
• Spiky Shield is good for scouting and is basically a Protect that could potentially do damage
• Leech Seed is good for chipping HP off foes and getting passive recovery
• Spikes is a good entry hazard for Chesnaught to lay down
• Wood Hammer hits the many bulky Water-types in the tier, though Hammer Arm can be used to hit Steel-types or even opposing Grass-types

Set Details
========

• EVs and nature to maximize Defense with some Attack investment
• Leftovers for passive recovery
• Bulletproof is great to shut down certain threats like non-HP Fire Roserade

Usage Tips
========

• Switch in on things Chesnaught walls, of course
• Generally safe to Leech Seed on the first turn or when anticipating a switch unless in against a Pokemon immune to Leech Seed because unless something immune to it is coming in, Leech Seed will be set down and Chesnaught will get passive recovery while wearing down the opponent
• If Chesnaught is in against against something immune to Leech Seed that it walls and is not expecting it to switch out, use Spikes if it's still early-game or mid-game
• Set down Spikes if it's not late-game with the last Pokemon left or something or if against a Pokemon immune to Leech Seed that isn't going to switch out. Just make sure Chesnaught is able to wall it. If Spikes are not needed at this point, it is usually safe to attack
• If unsure of what a foe is going to do, or just want Leech Seed recovery if it is set, scout with Spiky Shield. If it uses a powerful attack that Chesnaught can't handle well or a status move at this point, Chesnaught should probably switch out.

Team Options
========

• Special walls
• Slowbro / Slowking can cover weaknesses (e.g. Fire, Psychic, etc.) nicely and also have great bulk, and other bulky Water-types like Suicune can also do great at this
• Spinblocker to keep Spikes on the field
• Rhyperior and other Rock-types can also cover weaknesses, especially that nasty Flying weakness
• Cleric support from the likes of Granbull or Lanturn, or a status absorber like Starmie because Chesnaught really hates Toxic, and burns to a lesser extent. Florges and Umbreon can also be used as clerics and can also act as decent special walls to back up Chesnaught's poor Special Defense.

Other Options
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• Toxic
• Rocky Helmet
• Substitute (SubSeed)
• Belly Drum
• Bulk Up
• Stone Edge
• Taunt
• Roar
• Curse
• Specially Defensive EV spread with Impish nature

Checks & Counters
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• Flying-types (Crobat, Thundurus-T)
• Special Attackers
• Taunt
• Status (burn and poison)
• Ghost- and Grass-types
• Fire-types (Victini, Darmanitan, etc.)
• Fairy-types (Gardevoir, Florges, etc.)
• Pokemon immune to Leech Seed (mainly Grass-types like HP Fire Roserade) can be a nuisance

Overview
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Enter Chesnaught, one of the best bulky Spikers in the metagame. Sporting an impressive base 122 Defenseand a vast support movepool that includes Spikes, Leech Seed, and Spiky Shield, Chesnaught is one of the best when it comes to walling physical threats. It also has a unique ability in Bulletproof, which helps it shut down select threats such as Roserade without Hidden Power Fire. However, while Chesnaught's Defense stat is massive, its Special Defense is quite the opposite, and Chesnaught will often find itself hard-pressed to deal with special attackers. Finally, Chesnaught is slow and will constantly find itself being outsped by offensive threats.

Defensive Spikes
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name: Defensive Spikes
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Synthesis / Spiky Shield
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Wood Hammer
ability: Bulletproof
item: Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
nature: Impish

Moves
========

This is Chesnaught's bread-and-butter set, and the one you will most likely be seeing on the UU ladder. Leech Seed is an important move for Chesnaught, as it allows Chesnaught to gain additional recovery while wearing opponents down. For the second moveslot, Synthesis is great for Chesnaught to gain immediate recovery, as it gets worn down quite easily, though Spiky Shield can also be used to stall with Leech Seed and scout the opponent's team. Spikes is essential on this set, as Chesnaught will be laying them down in its free turns and can cause the opponent to rack up some serious damage over time. Finally, Wood Hammer allows Chesnaught to do direct damage and deal with the plethora of common Water-types in the tier. However, Hammer Arm can be used over Wood Hammer to hit the Steel-types in the tier, as well as not take recoil damage.

Set Details
========

The EVs in this set maximize Chesnaught's physical bulk, allowing it to wall many physical attackers with relative ease. Leftovers is used for passive recovery and allows Chesnaught to heal a significant amount of HP when stacked with Leech Seed recovery. However, a Rocky Helmet can also be used; as Chesnaught will be walling physical attackers most of the time, it can do a lot of recoil damage to them. It also allows Chesnaught to punish Knock Off users with recoil damage. Finally, as previously stated, Bulletproof is a great ability for shutting down select threats like Roserade without Hidden Power Fire and should be used over Overgrow at all times because of this.

Usage Tips
========

When switching in Chesnaught, make sure it switches in on something it can comfortably wall. On the first turn, it is generally safe to use Leech Seed unless something immune to it is switching in because when Leech Seed is set down successfully, Chesnaught can get passive recovery and even pass it on to a teammate if it chooses to switch out. If Chesnaught is low on HP when it switches in, it could also use Synthesis on that first turn to immediately get its HP back up. If something immune to Leech Seed is expected to switch in, Spikes can be used if it's still early- or mid-game.

If unsure of what an opponent is going to do or what set its running, you can use Spiky Shield to scout the opponent and determine your next move accordingly. Also, if Chesnaught walls the opponent, set down Spikes if it's still early- or mid-game and attack afterwards, using Synthesis to heal when necessary.

Team Options
========

Because Chesnaught's Special Defense is so low, it's a good idea to have a special wall as a teammate to sponge special attacks. Bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Suicune are also good teammates as they can cover some of Chesnaught's weaknesses, such as Fire and Ice. As entry hazards wear down Chesnaught significantly, a hazard remover is good to have for removing them. Rhyperior and other Rock-types can help deal with the Flying-type weakness that Chesnaught loathes, as can physically defensive Zapdos. Finally, cleric support from Pokemon such as Florges and Umbreon or having a status absorber like Starmie is great for keeping status away from Chesnaught because it hates Toxic, and burns to a lesser extent.

Other Options
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Toxic can be used to wear down opponents significantly and wear down other walls. Substitute can also be used in conjunction with Leech Seed for a SubSeed set. Stone Edge can also be used to hit Flying-types on the switch. Chesnaught has a variety of boosting moves that it could use, such as Bulk Up, Curse, and Belly Drum, though Chesnaught's poor Speed and Special Defense leaves it prone to being revenge killed. Roar can be used to phaze things that have accumulated too many boosts or are just troublesome, while Taunt can shut down other walls. Finally, a specially defensive EV spread with an Impish nature can be used to deal with some Water-types such as Suicune and Slowbro better.

Checks & Counters
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**Flying-types**: Flying-types are easily the best counters that there are to Chesnaught, as they can attack with a 4x super effective STAB attack and resist both of Chesnaught's STAB attacks. Examples of good Flying-types in the metagame include Crobat and Thundurus-T.

**Special Attackers**: Special attackers can take advantage of Chesnaught's mediocre Special Defense and are generally good at keeping Chesnaught in check.

**Taunt**: Taunt is bothersome for Chesnaught as it will prevent Chesnaught from using moves from its amazing support movepool and force it to rely on one of its STAB attacks. This makes Chesnaught significantly easier to handle, and it will allow other Pokemon to switch in without fearing Chesnaught healing with Synthesis or using Leech Seed.

**Status**: There are two kinds of status ailments that Chesnaught absolutely hates: poison and burn. Toxic will prevent Chesnaught from staying in and walling other Pokemon, while burns will weaken Chesnaught's STAB attacks significantly and leave it with no offensive presence whatsoever.

**Grass-types**: Grass-types can be a nuisance for Chesnaught, as they are immune to Leech Seed, and most either have coverage to take down Chesnaught or can set up in its face. Pokemon that have a Grass / Ghost typing such as Gourgeist do especially well against Chesnaught as they are immune to Fighting while resisting Grass, and Gourgeist can also burn it with Will-O-Wisp.

**Fire-types**: Fire-types such as Darmanitan, Victini, and Chandelure usually have no trouble taking down Chesnaught with their super effective STAB attacks. They also resist Wood Hammer. However, as many common Fire-types wield Choice items, they can easily be scouted with Spiky Shield.

 

[Sam]

not QC but I think Hammer Arm should be the secondary slash on Spiky Shield, not Wood Hammer. Wood Hammer is absolutely necessary for Ches

 

[LightningLuxray]

not QC but I think Hammer Arm should be the secondary slash on Spiky Shield, not Wood Hammer. Wood Hammer is absolutely necessary for Ches

Honestly Spiky Shield is also kind of necessary to be able to gain Leftovers/Leech Seed recovery... Spikes is in no way necessary and should be slashed behind that.

 

[Limitless]

The four moves should be Synthesis, Wood Hammer, Spikes, and Leech Seed. Spiky Shield should be slashed after Synthesis.

I'll look more into this later, but fix what I just told you. I've used Chesnaught probably more than anyone, so yeah.

 

[Epikhairz]

For the record, I disagree with Synthesis > Spiky Shield. Spiky Shield is so essential for Leech Seed stalling and doing heavy amounts of passive damage, especially with physical attackers, while a powerful attack that Chesnaught can't handle will severly damage or outright KO it, a situation which Chesnaught will find itself it a lot in a tier plagued with powerful attackers like Chandelure. Speaking of Chandelure, Spiky Shield is also great for scouting, easing prediction and planning your next move accordingly, which it can do especially well with Choice users like Specs Chandelure. Scenario: Chandelure comes in. You use Spiky Shield. If it uses Fire Blast or Trick, go into something that can handle it, like a bulky Water for FB and a good Mega or Specs user or something for Trick. If it uses Shadow Ball or Energy Ball trying to predict Chesnaught switching out, Chandelure is stuck and Chesnaught can spike stack in its face while Chandelure is forced out. But I digress.

Changes have been made!

 

[Calloflochie]

For the record, I disagree with Synthesis > Spiky Shield. Spiky Shield is so essential for Leech Seed stalling and doing heavy amounts of passive damage, especially with physical attackers, while a powerful attack that Chesnaught can't handle will severly damage or outright KO it, a situation which Chesnaught will find itself it a lot in a tier plagued with powerful attackers like Chandelure. Speaking of Chandelure, Spiky Shield is also great for scouting, easing prediction and planning your next move accordingly, which it can do especially well with Choice users like Specs Chandelure. Scenario: Chandelure comes in. You use Spiky Shield. If it uses Fire Blast or Trick, go into something that can handle it, like a bulky Water for FB and a good Mega or Specs user or something for Trick. If it uses Shadow Ball or Energy Ball trying to predict Chesnaught switching out, Chandelure is stuck and Chesnaught can spike stack in its face while Chandelure is forced out. But I digress.

Changes have been made!

The problem with this example is what happens when Chandelure subs. The reason I don't like the use of Protect based moves is because people feel 'safe'; like they have some sort of immortality when they use Protect/Spiky Shield etc, which they don't. Instead of just switching and possibly being faced with your Chandelure switch in being met with a Substitute, you now have to either sack Chesnaught or take a huge hit from something else. What's the point of having 13% more Leech Seed recovery when Synthesis gives you 50% of your health anyway? Limitless is one of the best XY UU battlers and has a lot of hands on experience with many, many different mons. He is also a member of Quality Control meaning that he has been picked to improve sets, not be given some example that only applies to Choiced Chandelure as a reasoning for why Chesnaught should have Spiky Shield. You may not like his changes, but if you don't make them, he's never going to give you QC 1/3 so I would advise you switch Spiky Shield to Synthesis.

 

[Epikhairz]

The problem with this example is what happens when Chandelure subs. The reason I don't like the use of Protect based moves is because people feel 'safe'; like they have some sort of immortality when they use Protect/Spiky Shield etc, which they don't. Instead of just switching and possibly being faced with your Chandelure switch in being met with a Substitute, you now have to either sack Chesnaught or take a huge hit from something else. What's the point of having 13% more Leech Seed recovery when Synthesis gives you 50% of your health anyway? Limitless is one of the best XY UU battlers and has a lot of hands on experience with many, many different mons. He is also a member of Quality Control meaning that he has been picked to improve sets, not be given some example that only applies to Choiced Chandelure as a reasoning for why Chesnaught should have Spiky Shield. You may not like his changes, but if you don't make them, he's never going to give you QC 1/3 so I would advise you switch Spiky Shield to Synthesis.

I have made the changes (I said so in the last line of my previous post), as I do know that Limitless is very experienced in the meta; I was just voicing my disagreement, so that maybe QC may reconsider. I am ok with keeping it this way though, and even though I may not agree with the stuff in the analysis, I can still manage

 

[Calloflochie]

My example still stands, Spiky Shield doesn't make you safe and stalling Leech Seed recovery yields far less recovery than Synthesis so if you want Chesnaught to have greater survivability, Synthesis is 100% the way to go.

 

[Epikhairz]

My Spiky Shield example is not just for scouting Chandelure; it can be applied for use to scouting things like Roserade for HP Fire, scouting things like Celebi for Psychic, and more

And while I do agree that Synthesis provides far more recovery, it will only keep Chesnaught alive if Chesnaught walls whatever its in on, a scenario that no good player will want to give Chesnaught. Spiky Shield is for the far more likely scenario where a powerful attacker comes in on Leech Seed, and Chesnaught will have no choice but to switch out. In a scenario like this with, say, the Chandelure I described earlier, or even something like Mega Manectric, Spiky Shield can be used to scout it and gain a load of passive recovery while the opponent takes passive damage from Leech Seed (as well as Spiky Shield for a contact move) and then book it and switch into something that gives you the edge, while with Synthesis, healing then taking a hit which does >50% will render the recovery useless.

If Synthesis > Spiky Shield is truly what you guys think, then I will keep it

Also, nice save with that edit on your first post with the strikeout ^_^

 

[Calloflochie]

My Spiky Shield example is not just for scouting Chandelure; it can be applied for use to scouting things like Roserade for HP Fire, scouting things like Celebi for Psychic, and more

And while I do agree that Synthesis provides far more recovery, it will only keep Chesnaught alive if Chesnaught walls whatever its in on, a scenario that no good player will want to give Chesnaught. Spiky Shield is for the far more likely scenario where a powerful attacker comes in on Leech Seed, and Chesnaught will have no choice but to switch out. In a scenario like this with, say, the Chandelure I described earlier, or even something like Mega Manectric, Spiky Shield can be used to scout it and gain a load of passive recovery while the opponent takes passive damage from Leech Seed (as well as Spiky Shield for a contact move) and then book it and switch into something that gives you the edge, while with Synthesis, healing then taking a hit which does >50% will render the recovery useless.

If Synthesis > Spiky Shield is truly what you guys think, then I will keep it

Also, nice save with that edit on your first post with the strikeout ^_^

Manectric isn't choiced locked though o.O and neither is Chandelure necessarily + clicking Spiky Shield mindlessly as soon as you get up Leech Seed on something is an awful idea. Also scouting Celebi, you have no business staying in on Celebi under any circumstances + you can't leech seed it and the same thing can be applied to Roserade too. Your examples you provide don't help the reasoning for using Spiky Shield but let me query you this; If the opponent has a Grass-Type, tell me how useful that Leech Seed + Spiky Shield recovery compared with a guaranteed Synthesis.

 

[Epikhairz]

OK I was wrong about Celebi, sorry, but no opponent would keep their Grass-type in unless they could either beat Chesnaught on the spot (HP Fire Roserade, which comes pretty close to OHKOing on an offensive set) or could set up something, whether it be to sweep (NP Celebi) or stack hazards (Spikes Roserade without HP Fire). In these cases, it's better to either scout if that's an option unless its a sweeper or hazard stacker, and switch out. If Chesnaught switches in on a Grass-type that can't do shit to it like non HP Fire Tangrowth, it will probably switch out to something else in which case Chesnaught should Leech Seed it instead of using Synthesis.

Also by your logic why should anyone ever use Protect if it doesn't make you "safe", if not for only a turn. With your scenario with Substitute Chandelure, Chandy will get that Sub up whether you scout it or switch out, so it's not like that makes too much of a difference.

Actually now that I think about it, a Synthesis slash sound good by Leech Seed to get 50% recovery whenever a switch is forced. Thoughts?

 

[Calloflochie]

This is the final thing i'm going to say, Chesnaught can't do shit to Grass Types so what is the point of staying in and scouting when you could switch out and minimise the damage done. E.g Celebi is in, you spiky shield and it nasty plots, you now have the potential for a +2 boost to be passed to something or Chesnaught is going to die. You stay in on Roserade and it spikes, now you not only have done jack shit besides Spiky Shield but Roserade has just gotten 2 layers of spikes absolutely free. Spiky Shield is NOT a good move vs Grass Types, the only real time it has any function is when Choiced Physical Attackers like Darmanitan or Victini come in and you want to scout them, outside of that, Spiky Shield is essentially useless.

I spose Synthesis can be slashed with Leech Seed although Leech Seed + Wood Hammer makes it far easier to beat bulky Waters so i'd be less inclined to run that since IMO Synthesis and Leech Seed are both paramount on Chesnaught.

 

[Epikhairz]

And hopefully the last thing I'm going to say tonight is - isn't scouting Choice attackers enough to make Spiky Shield a staple, nevermind the fact that it can also be used to Leech Seed stall? Pokemon like Darm, Tini, Hydreigon, and Chandy almost make up offense in the metagame and are commonly seen running around. One mispredict and you could lose a Pokemon and maybe the match, so why not scout with Spiky Shield and stay on the safe side?

Sorry if a dispute over a moveslot choice got a little overboard, hopefully this can be settled tomorrow :x

 

[Calloflochie]

It's fine, the QC members have to expect that some people aren't going to like their recommendations but you have to understand, we have been picked for a reason and that reason is that for the most part, we know what the best movesets/evs etc should be run on each pokemon :]

 

[Limitless]

QC 1/3

 

[Epikhairz]

Thanks for the QC check :]

 

[s_aman]

I think the fire weakness should get a mention in overview as fire is the best offensive type in the current meta.

 

[watashi]

I think the fire weakness should get a mention in overview as fire is the best offensive type in the current meta.

its already been covered in team options as chesnaught is pretty much always going to be paired up with a bulky water.

qc 2/3

 

[Epikhairz]

thx FLCL ^.^

gonna work on the writeup when i get some time cuz im buried with other work rn

 

[Ernesto]

Sorry for annoying you now, but there should be a mention of a SpDef spread with an Impish nature in OO to deal with some Water-types better. Also on cleric support, Florges and Umbreon (yea I know, they fall into the Special Wall category, but still) should be mentioned over Granbull and Lanturn, imo. You can tie those two points together if you want, actually.

 

[Epikhairz]

it's not a problem; i'm always open to criticism and suggestions :]

anyways, i'll add this mention soon

 

[Epikhairz]

This is ready for the third QC check :]

 

[Martin]

Spiky Shield is a must for stalling for Leech Seed damage, so I would reorder the slashes as follows:

move 1: Spikes
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Spiky Shield
move 4: Synthesis / Hammer Arm / Wood Hammer

Spikes is fist because you have effectively called it spikes. I have slashed Hammer Arm in as it is great to be able to hit Aggron, Registeel, Ferroseed and other Steel-types which resist Hammer Arm hard.

Add AV to OO. Its bulk and decent offensive typing sound good on paper, but are a little gimmicky in practice.

Also on cleric support, Florges and Umbreon (yea I know, they fall into the Special Wall category, but still) should be mentioned over Granbull and Lanturn, imo. You can tie those two points together if you want, actually.

Actually, Lanturn has very good defensive synergy with Chesnaught due to it being Water-type. After all, Fire/Water/Grass is arguably the best defensive core in the game while still being a great offensive core - similarly to how Psychic, Fighting and Dark/Ghost coverage is arguably the best offensive core in the game and still an amazing as a defensive one (it is another more offensively-inclined "type triangle").

 

[Limitless]

Spiky Shield is a must for stalling for Leech Seed damage, so I would reorder the slashes as follows:

move 1: Spikes
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Spiky Shield
move 4: Synthesis / Hammer Arm / Wood Hammer

Spikes is fist because you have effectively called it spikes. I have slashed Hammer Arm in as it is great to be able to hit Aggron, Registeel, Ferroseed and other Steel-types which resist Hammer Arm hard.

Add AV to OO. Its bulk and decent offensive typing sound good on paper, but are a little gimmicky in practice.

Actually, Lanturn has very good defensive synergy with Chesnaught due to it being Water-type. After all, Fire/Water/Grass is arguably the best defensive core in the game while still being a great offensive core - similarly to how Psychic, Fighting and Dark/Ghost coverage is arguably the best offensive core in the game and still an amazing as a defensive one (it is another more offensively-inclined "type triangle").

No, the ordering is correct.

And I can't believe I didn't catch this before, but Rocky Helmet should be slashed after Leftovers (not just in OO). I actually always use Rocky Helmet on Chesnaught, so it should at least be slashed in. My reasoning is that you're mostly using Chesnaught as a Knock Off sponge, so getting any damage in is helpful.

 

[Epikhairz]

changed thx :]