Chronicles in Sun (1k RMT)

#1
Introduction​

Well it has been quite a while since I've posted an RMT, the usual rant, whatever. Today I've got a sun team for you. Pretty standard, maybe not perfect, but it performs well whenever I use it. It's offensive like every sun team and all that and has the super mega powerful Victini. This team started as a team with Lilligant but for it to actually perform well I sadly have to go without it. Oh, and this is also my 1k! There's some stuff in here that'll have to do with that. Okay, here we go.

Teambuilding​

I started the team and my thought process was basically must use Lilligant must use Lilligant. I was testing it for an analysis and I needed to test it. This one was a Quiver Dance sweeper, and I used offensive Sunny Day Ninetales because duh I needed sun and for some reason didn't use defensive.



I wanted a second Chlorophyll sweeper, so I put Venusaur on the team. Just your standard Growth set. I also wanted a Fire-type sweeper, so I put the manly CB Victini on the team. I used Dugtrio to take out their counters.



I wanted hazards, so I threw a Deoxys-D on the team.



Well, that's the 5 minute team. I tried, but it was total shit. I tried Healing Wish Lilligant, team still sucked. I made a core of Bronzong / LO Latias. Let me tell you, non-max Speed Timid Latias is terrble. It was so infuriating, getting outsped by of all things Garchomp and losing games because of it. I did make it max Speed so I wouldn't facepalm every battle. Deoxys-D got kicked out because I didn't need Spikes and it was so freaking annoying to have a useless mon after the first few turns. Dugtrio because 99% it got no use. Bronzong is so underrated btw, seriously, more people should use it.



This version of the team was /okay/, I'd use it again. I do have a version of this team I use with Forretress > Bronzong, and it's good. Healing Wish support is awesome. However, it's not quite as successful as the next iteration of this team. Reluctantly, I scrapped Lilligant. I needed a spinner / Magic Bouncer so badly, hazards were horrible and this certainly taught me a lesson to not use a hazard-weak team without some method of combating them. I tried Xatu but it was really bad for some reason. I put on Forretress and it did well. From there, I had an issue where Bronzong was no longer pulling its weight. It got removed, and I put Landorus-T in its place to have a good SR setter, Fighting resist, Ground immune, Volt Switch absorber, and goodish Genesect switch-in when I didn't want to bring in Ninetales. Also, I nailed it through my thick skull that offensive Ninetales wasn't dojng me any favors, so I made it defensive. Hooray team ready to go fun ensues.

At a Glance​




Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day
- Substitute

Victini @ Choice Band
Trait: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Brick Break
- U-turn

Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Volt Switch

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 SDef
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Fire]


The Weather Inducer​


this and all pokemon art from arkeis



Ninetales @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
Flamethrower
Will-O-Wisp
Sunny Day
Substitute

Ah, good old defensive Ninetales. Obviously since this a sun team I need a sun setter, and Ninetales is the only one available for OU (excpet terribad Vulpix). Flamethrower is the reliable STAB move. Not hitting Ferrothorn and co. made me want to pull my hair out. Next up is Will-O-Wisp, which I like to use leading against stuff like Dragonite and Mamoswine. It sounds risky, but I have Substitute to use when I need it. Mid- to late-game it helps out with things like CB Nite, Terrakion that try to predict a switch, Jirachi's Iron Heads (Flamethrower doesn't OHKO and I'd rather it do little to the rest of my team), and wearing stuff down when I need it. Substitute makes it SO easy to spread burns, even though it does take away HP. I sometime use it to bank on misses from Rotom-W Hydro Pump more safely. Substitute is one of those moves I can use in a clutch scenario and just win, i.e. as physical RP Landorus switches in, I Flamethrower and Substitute, then burning it / finishing it off with Flamethrower. Against slower Pokemon I can stall LO damage. Substitute is invaluable for a ton of situations where I'd otherwise be down for the count. Sunny Day is the same as on offensive Ninetales; predict the Politoed / Tyranitar / Hippowdon and use it. Substitute can be used on a sand setter switching in too, as then I can burn it with ease (besides accuracy issues) and also get off Sunny Day. The EVs are by SJCrew, allowing Ninetales surviving an Earthquake from sash Dugtrio after a layer of 1-2 (maybe) layers of Spikes or 1 regular poison (1 layer Toxic Spikes). 136 Speed EVs and a Timid nature allow Ninetales to outrun Jolly Mamoswine, which is important to get burnt because it's a big threat to my team.
The Nuke​



Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
V-create
Bolt Strike
Brick Break
U-turn

V-V-V-V-V-V-create!!! That right there is Victini in a nutshell. LO doesn't hit hard enough for me and can't take any hits. CB just goes boom nuke everything in sight idgaf. V-create OHKOes standard Latios, some Gastrodon, etc. you get the idea. Predict!? Victini knows but one style, and that is V-create style. The other moves are icing on the cake compared to the raw power of CB sun-boosted V-create. Victini is my hard hitter; if want something dead, I bring Victini in. It's got the bulk to take most hits that aren't super effective. I have a spinner mostly so Victini can waltz in and out freely and V-create the world. There's a few things that can tank a V-create, granted, extremely bulky bulky Water-types being the main issue. Wait, bulky Water-type I hear? Be right back, zappin' 'em with Bolt Strike. New Bolt Strike event was awesome because Fusion Bolt was so damn weak. As Jellicent or Politoed comes in, they just get OHKOed effortlessly provided I get SR up. It also has 93% accuracy thanks to Victory Star. Brick Break is for Heatran and that annoying sand dinosaur. U-turn is my other de facto move. Fearing a switch-on but not sure what? "When in doubt, U-turn out." Other stuff on Victini is standard.
Adios, entry hazards, I hardly knew ye




Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature
Spikes
Rapid Spin
Toxic
Volt Switch

So I go to someone I know (coughtropcough) and ask if the team is okay and am given a ranking list of every spinner available. Forretress is at the way bottom of that list. Fortunately, I didn't fall for the trolling antics, as otherwise I would be without one of my MVPs. Forretress spins and does it repiably and repeatedly, which is all I need. It also sets up Spikes in the downtime. Okay, put this in perspective. You know the raw power of V-create. Now, imagine V-create at 2/3- HP. Also, Venusaur does a lot better because it misses many KOs without hazards. I don't use Toxic Spikes because I don't _need_ them and would much rather have my offensive Pokemon getting stuff done. Toxic cripples what I need it to. If Forretress can survive a hit (Sturdy helps), I can Toxic and switch around until an opposing sweeper dies. Also, it puts a timer on Jellicent, which god knows it needs to spin ever. Volt Switch is slow so I get a teammate in free. It escapes Magnezone too and breaks Sturdy / Focus Sash. The big thing I use Forretress for other than spinning is Dragon-type attacks. I try to limit taking Draco Meteors, but Outrages / Dragon Claws are game for Forretress to come in and spin or set up Spikes.
The Chlorophyll Sweeper



Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
Growth
Giga Drain
Hidden Power Fire
Sludge Bomb

Every sun team needs a Chlorophyll sweeper, and Venusaur is mine. It's the most common one, but that's for a reason. Really, I don't use Growth all the time. I use it when I need it, but the other three moves get a ton more use. Sludge Bomb is the move I spam usually, as Poison hits quite a lot for neutral damage. Sludge Bomb allows Venusaur to kill weakened Dragonite, the Lati twins when boosted, and more. Also, the residual damage from an occasional poison is invaluable in wearing down opponents. HP Fire sees a lot of use as well, hitting Steel-types (which for some reason always stay in?) hard and having a decent punch neutrally when I need it due to sun. Giga Drain helps keep Venusaur alive, and god knows I need that. Venusaur serves three important roles on my team. It is my revenge killer, as I lack a Scarfer, and a damn good one at that. It is a mid-game hit-and-run Pokemon to remove troublesome foes, which is always needed. It is also my late-game sweeper if it survives that long. Oh, there's one more thing. It beats weather inducers. If they don't switch out, Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon are dead. Unless something that outspeeds it comes in, it can function just fine in rain too, which is nice (this happens often actually). I conserve Venusaur quite a bit. That's not to say I won't let it take hits, as Giga Drain heals it up, and in fact I do use it often to switch into Water-type attacks, but I'm not willing to sack it except as a last resort. Strategically boosting up with Growth wins games for me. Growth on the opponent if Venusaur can survive a hit and kill the foe, then using Growth again on Chansey to beat it is one such example. Venusaur is such a valuable Pokemon, it's almost unreal.
Team Pivots



Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 SpD
Adamant Nature
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Stone Edge
U-turn

This team could not function without two very important pivots; Landorus-T is the first one. There's a reason that this set is so successful. Landorus-T is immune to Ground-type. Landorus-T resists Fighting-type attacks. Landorus-T has Intimidate so it can take even some super effective physical hits. Landorus-T has the bulk to take some special hits. It takes the momentum away from Outraging Dragons if I somehow get in freely such as from a Forretress Volt Switch. My team would be unable to function without a Pokemon with these traits. Oh, and another thing—Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is needed for most if not all teams, and Landorus-T is arguably the best setter in OU. It can set up Stealth Rock quickly, reliably, and repeatedly. Not to mention its power. Landorus-T is extraordinarily powerful even with just 64 Attack EVs and an accompanying Adamant nature. I mean, it's not powering through resists and such, but it's still quite powerful. Landorus-T's Earthquake is the most important move on my team because it OHKOes Heatran; my only other move is Victini's Brick Break which is set-up fodder if it doesn't hit Heatran. It also hits a ton of neutrally hit Pokemon hard. Stone Edge has excellent coverage with Earthquake and whatever. It is innacurate but needed to hit things like Gengar (way more of a problem than one would think), Dragonite, and Salamence, among others. U-turn is always an awesome move to have. I said this with Victini, and I'll say it again: when in doubt, U-turn out. Seriously, Landorus-T basically embodies this. There's a ton of situations where I'd be forced out, which loses all my momentum, but with U-turn, I get in Victini, or Venusaur, or Latias, or whatever in for free. These situations are extremely common and make Landorus-T an amazing Pokemon for this team.


Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 128 HP / 128 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
Draco Meteor
Surf
Roost
Hidden Power Fire

While I was writing this, Genesect got banned. Although I'm not so happy about it, it doesn't matter that much. The relevant part is that Latias got even better. In Genesect meta, I loved using Latias. Now take Genesect out of the picture. Latias got even better! Anyway, I prefer the LO Tank set for a number of reasons. First of all, it hits pretty hard right off the bat, and with a team like this, setting up with Latias is a waste of time. Second, it has two coverage moves and Roost, allowing it to hit an array of threats hard while still having the ability heal up and thus tank many hits. Latias has some nice special bulk that I need to take Fire- and Grass-type attacks, as well as the ability to survive most non-super effective neutral special hits and even comfortably take some super effective ones. The EV spread is one I made when I found out that losing to Garchomp, Keldeo, Terrakion, etc. was annoying as fuck. 128 Special Attack KOes Gliscor, Mamoswine, Keldeo, and some other Pokemon (the exact investment gets Abomasnow, but it's only 4 EVs of difference. There might be a better way to distribute the HP EVs (maybe a LO number or something idk) so if you know something tell me. It's just that max Speed Timid is 100% necessary in the current metagame. Draco Meteor is the power move, hitting more than hard enough to take out some problem Pokemon. Hidden Power Fire is important for the Steel-types who just LOVE to switch into Latias. The third attacking move is Surf. That probably seems really weird to you because Surf is weakened in sun, but the ability to do some damage to Heatran makes up for it ten times over. Latias is my second pivot and the final Pokemon of this RMT!
Conclusion​

Well, that's the team. Not much else to say really. In hide tags is other stuff not related to the team whatsoever if you're interested.

The below few paragraphs are an introduction to who I am on Smogon and how I got to today. Don't read if you don't feel like it

Fresh out of 4th gen WiFi (my cousin had an edited cartridge and gave me the Pokemon), I had started BW (around Garchomp meta maybe). I made an excachomp sand team, bog standard except that it had terrible Curse Ferrothorn on it. I posted it on Smogon (this kinda cool for me making an RMT on my first and 1k post) and found out it was okay and got some good advice. I lurked a bit after that, tried rating a few teams. That wasn't my thing, so I just chilled on Smogon PO and battled. Garchomp got banned, I was like meh, okay. Blaziken got banned too, before Garchomp. I tried doing CAP somewhere in this and got an infraction for Lurk More. I didn't post for a bit after that. I posted a little in DST and got an infraction doing that. Not much significant happened. I did nothing. would say I was kinda just a random meh user, not super duper bad but not good either. This lurking and doing things sporadically all changed when DW came along, however.

Well, DW had just started with Matthew setting up a metagame, and I was pumped to jump right in. I posted maybe 2 threads in DW DST and posted. I was stubborn even when I was wrong and a contrarian, which certainly didn't make anyone like me. I of course was oblivious to this fact. I jumped into DW S&P and did 2 analyses. I did something for RU too.The writing was not horrific, the QC was a lot but whatever. The real thing was that I had a horrible attitude. At all times, I had to be a smart aleck, bicker, and act like I was better than everyone. Looking back at some of these posts, I can't even believe I posted some of what I did. Somehow this got me no infractions; until I copied the structure of an OU analysis and wound up with a plagiarism infraction. Boom. I was in ICBB for 3 months. That in itself was pretty bad. I wasn't likely to be able to contribute to C&C ever again either, and that sucked. I was banned for another few weeks at another interval. Basically, I had devolved to total shit and given up.

The moment my ICBB ended, I was so relieved. The first thing I did was, for god knows what reason after everything, PM the person who had infracted me to get permission to contribute to C&C again. However, this time I was determined to not screw up. I had been very politely informed that there would be no third chance. I started reserving some analyses. And then more. And then more. And contributing to projects. Soon, I had an immense workload that peaked at 12 analyses running all at once. I don't know how that happened, it just did. I did much better this time around. I'd learned not to act like an ass, not to be a contrarian, and to respect others, in addition to improved writing skills and metagame knowledge. As I started finishing analyses, my post quality was at a rock bottom low. I was make one-liner posts in the OU SM forum, useless posts, annoying posts, and made annoying titles when my analyses were ready for upload. I was told, firmly, that I was screwing up. I got my act together and churned out more analyses, and in the past month or two got this ladybug badge. Cheers!

in no particular order

Birkal - look up inspiration in the dictionary and you will find Birkal. birk-a-dit.

#TAONU - social chan too much fun. is all that must be said.

BattleStar - throughout everything, we've been friends. awesome to be around too.

RODAN - somehow he managed to get ops whenever I was on #pokemon and repeatedly kick me. iirc there was some sort of script that would kick me. what fun, being trolled by rodan that is.

Zebraiken - a very helpful user that has given me advice on not being stupid multiple times

sandshrewz - I'm still looking for float-right...

Matthew - dw best tier :D never talked but still creating good DW is awesome.

TROP (TropiOUs) - manage to troll the living shit out everything, including me, daily. for example, I am usually greeted on irc with:
TROP: pokemon0078
TROP: ur a faget

ebeast - practically tripled my knowledge of nu just by when I randomly asking things on irc. amazing autogreet as well. nprt nprt.

Mysterious Trainer - the stupidest a forum poster ever. a long long while ago he used to not be a dick and helped me with my team. what happened...

alkinesthetase - all I can say is that you always tend to talk about stuff that I don't understand on #pokemon

other people I can't think of something for: Harsha, TrollFreak, and Molk

whatever I tried, for some reason had a mental block. no one probably cares but sorry if I forgot you!


/me is happy about being able to post again
 
#2
Hey ok team I would really like to suggest some EV spread fixings as your as really basic and should be customized.

Al heatrans are going fuck your whole team up would use LO infernape over victini or earthquake venusaur. Using mixed latios could also help you out.

Venusaur (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 156 Atk / 172 SAtk / 180 Spd
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Growth

That would be mixed venusaur.

Your team does not really utilize latias' bulk well and I would use LO latios.

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 24 Atk / 244 Spd / 240 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Roost/Memento

Attack EVs always KO SpD heatran after rocks. Speed to outspeed terrakion, hidden power fire lowers speed anyways.

Mixed Infernape:

Infernape @ Life Orb
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 84 Atk / 252 Spd / 172 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

I would definitely use 2 of those 3 to easily muscle past heatran.

Switch your SpD EVs on landorus-t to defense. I am assuming that was a typo.
 
#3
Hi Asterat, thanks for the rate:

I have been testing mixed Venusaur lately and it's great. I'll edit it in I guess. Latias is needed because Latios just isn't bulky enough to take a ton of resisted hits. Realize, I use Latias and sometimes have it taking Ice Beams. Latios can't do that. Yeah, typo on Landorus-T, oops...
 
#4
Hi!

There are a few changes to make to this team.

Firstly, I do agree with Asterat's suggestion of mixed venusaur. It is the set I use every time a build a sun team with venusaur, and it works.

Another thing is that your team is quite weak to dragons. Your only steel type cannot tank draco meteors at all, and most of those dragons carry a fire move anyway. The only suggestion I can give that might fix this would be mamoswine. Mamoswine packs a strong priority ice shard as well as acceptable bulk. It also carries one of the strongest earthquakes in the game. I really don't know what pokemon to replace it with; the best I can do is give you the set. I really am in no position to deem which pokemon to replace, as they have such good synergy that only you can know the weakest link.

Here is the set.


Mamoswine @Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed | Adamant | Thick Fat
~Ice Shard
~Earthquake
~Icicle Spear
~Superpower

Well, ice shard is great for killing the therians and dragons. Earthquake hits really hard. Icicle spear is secondary STAB for grass types. Superpower gets coverage on ferrothorn and other nasty stuff that walls mamoswine. Thick Fat removes its weakness to fire, although the moves are still stronger. It also gives it a nice resist to boltbeam, which is mostly fluff because that combination isn't seen much, but it is still very convenient.

Hope this helps!

~KoB
 

Joeyboy

Has got the gift of gab
is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#5
Hey cool team dude, congrats on 1,000 posts!

My first suggestion is an easy one, change Venusaur's nature to Timid. While a + Spe nature on a chlorophyll Pokemon at first seems like a waste, I'll tell you why its almost a necessity. Choice Scarf 110s outspeed Modest Venusaur, even in the Sun; Choice Scarf Latios is actually gained a lot more usage and will stop your sweeper in its place. Timid is an easy fix to this and at +2 Venusaur easily OHKOs with Sludge Bomb.

My second suggestion is to change up your Ninetales spread. At the moment Calm Mind Latias can take advantage on many of your Pokemon to set up and you don't really have any Pokemon who want to take it on, because of this I recommend changing your Ninetales to a more Specially Defensive Spread. The set I suggest is:


Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 160 SDef / 100 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower
- Sunny Day
- Roar


One of Ninetales only niches, besides Drought of course :), is as a surprisely bulky special defensive phazer. Ninetales doesn't really mind CM Latias and will be able to roar it out for most of the game, until you're in a better situation to deal with it. This set allows Ninetales to take the Dragon Pulses or HP Fires Latias will throw, while also being able to switch into Bulky Politoeds Scalds. You keep Sunny Day and Will-O-Wisp to deter other Weather starters as well as having more overall utility.

An interesting little change I've thought about is replacing Toxic on Forretress for Earthquake. Your team really doesn't like Heatran. Landorus-T helps you in some regard, but an Offensive Heatran will have no problems tearing through it and Landorus-T can't even switch in. On the other hand your best switch-in, Latias, can't really dent Heatran too much if in the Sun as Surf is nerfed. Heatran loves switching in on Forretress, usually its about as free a switch as you'll find. But thats where the gimmickiness comes in, smacking a Heatran with Earthquake on the switch in will do a lot for removing it completely for your team. Granted this is definitely a gimmick, and while they can help, they can't be relied on completely.

I'm not terribly sure what the merits are of Specially Defensive Landorus-T and would love to hear your thoughts on them. I want to recommend something else for that slot that better deals with Heatran but I want to know more about the Pokemon before slating to replace it.

Good Luck!
 
#6
King of Blades, I think I'm going to not use Mamoswine. There isn't really a "weakest link". Draco Meteors I do have to play around, but Mamoswine doesn't help in taking them and Forretress cannot be replaced because I need a spinner. Thanks for the rate though.

Joeyboy, I like the look of that Ninetales set, I think I'll try it out. I've contemplated Earthquake but never really tested it, so I'll make that change. Timid on Venusaur is definitely worth consideration. I mainly use Modest because I tend to, very often, bring in Venusaur unboosted. However, if I tried to get boosts, I'm sure I could. Thanks for the rate!
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#7
I meant to tell you in the Ninetales thread, but didn't get around to it: your speed EVs are surplus. You outrun Jolly Mamoswine, but you have a bit of extra speed you aren't using for anything. The EV spread I suggested was a mirror of the set you were using as I posted (I think?), but with the 120 EVs from Sp. Def placed into Defense instead. If you're only trying to outrun Jolly Mamo, you should be using 252 HP/160 Def/92 Speed, which hits 286 speed to Mamo's 284.
 

CTC

The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
is a Past SPL and WCoP Champion
#9
Hi man, nice team!
I can't do a full rate cuz on my phone atm. The team looks good as is so heres a few minor nit picks. First of all the team doesn't like lo latis too much but I guess you can play around that, but have you tried special def forre alongside physically defensive lanT? I would also put Hp ice over toxic on forre seeing as sub tox gliscor is a bitch for the team, or any sub gliscor/lando. For jelli u can just vswitch to Vic and kill something in sun so I don't think that's too big of a problem. Offensive heatran in sun however, is a huge threat. The standard balloon set is devastating for the team to face, as only 2 pokes can touch it ( land is outsped) I don't play sun often so I don't know exactly how sub nails operates ( status the other weather on switch works? Dodging pursuit is nice) but I would suggest Hp ground on nails. Lastly your Latinas can only speed tie with Hp fire latis, which I doubt ur ognna be willing to guess or bank on, so I would distribute 8 speed Eva to Hp or sp att. You still outsped base 108s. I dunno what that puts the Hp at but make it hit xx9 for lo number. One huge threat to this team is a common sand combo ttar + lando. The combo is extremely deadly to your team and is hard to beat. Special def forre with Hp ice remedie the situation somewhat, seeing as lando sets up on 3/6 of ur team. For venusaur u can try max sp att, timid and enough speed to hit 264, then put the rest into Hp to try and tank a timid ep (tho most run modest). This way u hit a bit less hard but outsped scarf latis and horses and can set up easier due to bulk. Rp land is a threat for every sun team but I'm sure with smart switching you can outplay that threat.
Good luck and grats on 1k!
 
#10
Hey there, pokemon0087!

I've ran Sun teams for a while now, especially variants without Dugtrio like this, and I really know the common weaknesses and ways to patch them, so hopefully I can help you out! First of all, any kind of Heatran is very threatening. Latias' Surf in sun isn't going to be doing much damage, and it only really fears a Brick Break from Victini which is only doing about ~60% to a Specially Defensive Varient. Another major threat is Volcarona. Volcarona can easily set up on Ninetales, Venusaur, Latias, and Forretress and proceed to basically sweep your team. One last weakness I see is mainly to Special Dragons. Special Dragons like Hydreigon, Lati@s, etc. basically get a free kill everytime they switch in. From taking a look at the team, Latias seems the most replaceable. Latias checks opposing Chlorophyll sweepers and Keldeo; the former is checked by what I'm going to recommend, and the latter is fucked by Venusaur. With all of this in mind, I recommend a Choice Band Snorlax instead of Latias. With a Choice Band, Snorlax acts as a fantastic Pursuit Trapper for special dragons, a great Heatran Counter, a great Venusaur check, and it really seems to fit your team well. The EV's and set found at the bottom allow you to live a Banded Tyranitar's Stone Edge and to have maximum attack and special defensive investment to tank things like Specs Latios' Draco Meteors. With the change of Latias ---> Snorlax, you lose a check to one very threatening Pokemon: Landorus. An unconventional way to change this is to add an Air Balloon Volcarona instead of Victini. I would say Balloon Victini, but I've tested it before and it's worse than Volcarona. Without a power boosting item, Victini is rather mediocre. Volcarona, however, is a fantastic user of Air Balloon. With the balloon intact it can set up on Specially Defensive Hippowdon lacking Whirlwind as well as check Special Landorus and Mamoswine, making it an ideal choice for your team. I really advocate max special attack and max speed with a Timid nature and Fire Blast. Fire Blast nets several KO's Fiery Dance doesn't like weakened Gyarados. The last slot could be Hidden Power Ground to OHKO Heatran.

One of the few nitpicks I have for the team would be using Spikes > Toxic Spikes and Gyro Ball > Toxic on Forretress. Toxic Spikes are really mediocre in the current metagame as they take too much time to set up for the medicore reward they give. Spikes can't be absorbed by common Poison-typed Pokemon like opposing Tentacruel and Venusaur, and they are definitely more effective. Gyro Ball gives you a secondary check to Terrakion and Mamoswine which Landorus-T and Volcarona can't check forever, and I always like having an attacking move on Forretress. One last nitpick would be Ninetales' EV spread: Tornadus-T seems really threatening and Substitute eases Dugtrio switch-in predictions (what your current EV spread does), so try a Specially Defensive spread to help tank Hurricanes better. Here are the sets and changes I recommend below:

Sets:

Snorlax @ Choice Band | Thick Fat
Adamant | 40 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SDef
Body Slam / Pursuit / Fire Punch / Superpower


Volcarona @ Air Balloon | Flame Body
Timid | 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd | 30 SpA / 30 SDef
Quiver Dance / Fire Blast / Hidden Power / Bug Buzz



Changes:


    • Toxic Spikes ----> Spikes
    • Toxic ----> Gyro Ball

    • 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe Timid ----> 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spe Timid

Good luck with your team!

Edit: Landorus-T needs to be Defensive to check Dragons, is that a typo?

 

SJCrew

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#11
No, guys, stop suggesting changing the Ninetales spread for stuff she isn't supposed to counter. Ninetales is supposed to get free switches in on Bullet Punches, Iron Heads, Power Whips, etc...then switch in on stuff like Sp. Def Tyranitar after she burns it. How does 120 Sp. Def EVs help her take Hurricanes? It's always a 2HKO if it even hits. All she's supposed to do is take one in a clutch situation.

Ninetales has plenty of special defense with just 252 HP and this is before considering that she doesn't check any special attacker whatsoever. With the Defense EVs, you can do crazy shit like switch into CB Scizor's Superpower, switch out, and survive a Bullet Punch on the revenge. The Sp. Def set takes 4-5% more damage from Bullet Punch, which is pretty unacceptable.

Btw, if you're still hurting for Heatran checks, just use a support Garchomp. It leaves you slightly more vulnerable to Terrakion, but Latias, Venusaur, and Victini can take advantage of a CC lock (especially Victini, since he usually gets a kill every time he comes out). If you roll with Garchomp, you'll end up relying on prediction and pivoting to beat Terrakion, but it's better than being walled by Heatran all day!
 

Leftiez

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#12
Hi Pokemon0078.
A strong team overall, this remains a bit ordinary when your team is a classic sun but it includes originals touches such as Forre3, Landorus! But I find that you overlook a little in the moves, you do what against Dragonite once Landorus-T dead? What can probably happen very easily, because even with the special ability to Intimidate you seem to forget that there're 2HKO by Nite contempt without boost, you can even not toxic and leave as he has fire punch + Lum berry, so you'll be forced to kill is very disadvantageous for you and the rest of the team putting a big pressure. I you Council therefore to Victreebel on Venusaure for Revenge Kill Nite/Haxorus/Salamence while touching Pokemon Bugg-Grass-Steel with Weather Ball (Fire):

Victreebel (M) @ Life Orb
Cap.Spé: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+ Spd) - Atk
-Giga Drain
-Growth
-Weather Ball
-Hidden Power [Ice]


Then I also noticed that Forr3 had no Hidden power Ice, it is a little annoying thing for you, Gliscor/Landorus/Dug one Volt switch, leaves toxic it can serve you against Jellicents (Anti-spinn) which can be very bad for a Sun. But you have none against Terrakion Sub salar Berry, I'm not going to lie, many teams are weak to Kion but they have generally a pillars preventing it from properly place, here it can come on anyone except Venusaure which may be address by Bliss-Tran-Chans very often in teams to switches, specifying as Forretress does Gyroball so I you Council Donphan on Landorus to put Scizor however the worries is to choose between the Sword Dancer or bander, as they are very effective, but I would advise you to hard it because you are very weak to reuniclus CM saw that Tias he fact that 40% + 1 and a pokemon and Victini quite weak in the Sr's and is no long in a game especially in this form as well as Gengar Sub(disable or 3attaks) :

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / SpeD
Impish Nature (+ Def, - SAtk)
-Stealth Rock
-Ice Shard
-Rapid Spin
-Earthquake


Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Cap.Spé: Technician
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spd
Adamant Nature (+ Atk, - SAtk)
-U - turn
-Pursuit
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower


PS: For Forretress you put the attack with an image of types poison (spikes).

Good Luck.

~Leftiez
 
#13
Just thought I should point out that Victory Star only works in Double and Triple Battles, not Singles.

85% Accuracy is still fairly decent though.
 
#14
No, guys, stop suggesting changing the Ninetales spread for stuff she isn't supposed to counter. Ninetales is supposed to get free switches in on Bullet Punches, Iron Heads, Power Whips, etc...then switch in on stuff like Sp. Def Tyranitar after she burns it. How does 120 Sp. Def EVs help her take Hurricanes? It's always a 2HKO if it even hits. All she's supposed to do is take one in a clutch situation.
252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/120SpDef Flash Fire Ninetales (Neutral): 66% - 78% (232 - 274 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/0SpDef Flash Fire Ninetales (Neutral): 74% - 88% (262 - 309 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.


An almost guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock compared to a good chance to live is a pretty good suggestion in my opinion. Especially since he lacks a good counter and you still tank Bullet Punches, a Superpower, etc. decently. No need to be so hostile about it, friend.

Just thought I should point out that Victory Star only works in Double and Triple Battles, not Singles.

85% Accuracy is still fairly decent though.
It works in Single Battles, actually :o

Edit: I was right in the sense Victini helps itself, but you were right in the sense that Victini doesn't help its teammates! Haha, I misinterpreted your post.
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#16
252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/120SpDef Flash Fire Ninetales (Neutral): 66% - 78% (232 - 274 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

252SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus Therian (Neutral) Hurricane vs 252HP/0SpDef Flash Fire Ninetales (Neutral): 74% - 88% (262 - 309 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

An almost guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock compared to a good chance to live is a pretty good suggestion in my opinion. Especially since he lacks a good counter and you still tank Bullet Punches, a Superpower, etc. decently.
This further illustrates my point. If you switch into Hurricane, you're only doing it once. If rocks are up, in that scenario, you are effectively dead and Tornadus can set up Rain Dance right in front of you to reverse your momentum. Tornadus requires a good check that isn't Ninetales.
 
#17
Rain Dance Tornadus-T isn't common, especially on Specs Tornadus-T where the calcs suggest a KO, and I would want to not live a Specs Hurricane to not lose the weather war. I don't get your point, please stop this pointless argument.
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
#18
Rain Dance Tornadus-T isn't common, especially on Specs Tornadus-T where the calcs suggest a KO, and I would want to not live a Specs Hurricane to not lose the weather war.
I'm citing a situation that's happened to me several times during an actual match, but that doesn't matter (LO will just U-turn into Politoed as you switch out anyway, making your endeavor pointless). The crux of what I am saying is that you should not be switching Ninetales into Hurricane at all under common conditions. In your calcs, if rocks are up and Ninetales switches into Hurricane, it will die switching back in and Sun won't go up. You have to spin before bringing Ninetales in regardless of circumstance.

Also, misleading information; Ninetales lives a Specs Hurricane at full HP no matter what: 74.9% - 88.3% You can take a Specs Hurricane after Rocks with 120 So Def EVs, true (66.3% - 78.3%), but you could just as well die and lose your Ninetales for no reason.

Speaking of Tornadus-T, I don't know how you're beating him at all with this team. :/ The thing I can really think of is changing Forry back to Bronzong and turning Latias into Espeon to prevent rocks. Assuming you switch Lando into Garchomp, you shouldn't be any more vulnerable to Heatran than you were before.

EDIT: Missing the main point again. I'm saying don't change your spread just to switch into Hurricane after rocks when it's still risky and definitely don't switch into Hurricane at all if you can avoid it. Those 120 EVs cover a contingency that should not be happening over lowering the net damage Ninetales takes from Pokemon she commonly switches into/checks. This is explained in the Ninetales revamp thread.
 
#19
You're assuming you can't spin before the second switch in after tanking the hurricane, but in another scenario Rocks won't be up the first time, presumably spun away? Not the greatest arguments, which I asked you to stop previously..

Possibly living a hurricane is definitely helpful in several game states, so it's a worthwhile change.
 
#20
Pretty cool sun team.Like previously stated special dragons such as Lati@s is a major threat.It outspeeds 5 out of 6 of your pokemon in sun and all of them outside sun and easily land several kills.They can even pull of a sweep with Specs Dragon Pulse.Heatran also causes a lot of trouble.

I don't have much experience with Sun teams so I can't really give you a solution for sure but I think using Sawsbuck as your chloro sweeper will help a lot against Special Dragons and Heatran,two of this team's biggest threats.Thanks to it's 95 base speed you can afford to run adamant so you'll be able to outrun and smack the Lati twins hard with LO STAB Frustation/Double Edge in sun and destroy heatran with EQ(Nature Power) or Jump kick(less reliable since heatran carries protect).You don't really lose out much that Venusaur had so i think it's worth to consider.


The set
Sawsbuck (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Frustration
- Nature Power
[
 
#21
Hey there, pokemon0087!

I've ran Sun teams for a while now, especially variants without Dugtrio like this, and I really know the common weaknesses and ways to patch them, so hopefully I can help you out! First of all, any kind of Heatran is very threatening. Latias' Surf in sun isn't going to be doing much damage, and it only really fears a Brick Break from Victini which is only doing about ~60% to a Specially Defensive Varient. Another major threat is Volcarona. Volcarona can easily set up on Ninetales, Venusaur, Latias, and Forretress and proceed to basically sweep your team. One last weakness I see is mainly to Special Dragons. Special Dragons like Hydreigon, Lati@s, etc. basically get a free kill everytime they switch in. From taking a look at the team, Latias seems the most replaceable. Latias checks opposing Chlorophyll sweepers and Keldeo; the former is checked by what I'm going to recommend, and the latter is fucked by Venusaur. With all of this in mind, I recommend a Choice Band Snorlax instead of Latias. With a Choice Band, Snorlax acts as a fantastic Pursuit Trapper for special dragons, a great Heatran Counter, a great Venusaur check, and it really seems to fit your team well. The EV's and set found at the bottom allow you to live a Banded Tyranitar's Stone Edge and to have maximum attack and special defensive investment to tank things like Specs Latios' Draco Meteors. With the change of Latias ---> Snorlax, you lose a check to one very threatening Pokemon: Landorus. An unconventional way to change this is to add an Air Balloon Volcarona instead of Victini. I would say Balloon Victini, but I've tested it before and it's worse than Volcarona. Without a power boosting item, Victini is rather mediocre. Volcarona, however, is a fantastic user of Air Balloon. With the balloon intact it can set up on Specially Defensive Hippowdon lacking Whirlwind as well as check Special Landorus and Mamoswine, making it an ideal choice for your team. I really advocate max special attack and max speed with a Timid nature and Fire Blast. Fire Blast nets several KO's Fiery Dance doesn't like weakened Gyarados. The last slot could be Hidden Power Ground to OHKO Heatran.

One of the few nitpicks I have for the team would be using Spikes > Toxic Spikes and Gyro Ball > Toxic on Forretress. Toxic Spikes are really mediocre in the current metagame as they take too much time to set up for the medicore reward they give. Spikes can't be absorbed by common Poison-typed Pokemon like opposing Tentacruel and Venusaur, and they are definitely more effective. Gyro Ball gives you a secondary check to Terrakion and Mamoswine which Landorus-T and Volcarona can't check forever, and I always like having an attacking move on Forretress. One last nitpick would be Ninetales' EV spread: Tornadus-T seems really threatening and Substitute eases Dugtrio switch-in predictions (what your current EV spread does), so try a Specially Defensive spread to help tank Hurricanes better. Here are the sets and changes I recommend below:

Sets:

Snorlax @ Choice Band | Thick Fat
Adamant | 40 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SDef
Body Slam / Pursuit / Fire Punch / Superpower


Volcarona @ Air Balloon | Flame Body
Timid | 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd | 30 SpA / 30 SDef
Quiver Dance / Fire Blast / Hidden Power / Bug Buzz



Changes:


    • Toxic Spikes ----> Spikes
    • Toxic ----> Gyro Ball

    • 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe Timid ----> 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spe Timid

Good luck with your team!

Edit: Landorus-T needs to be Defensive to check Dragons, is that a typo?

I'm going to test out the Pokemon changes. idk where you got that Forretress has Toxic Spikes. I'd like to keep the Defense EVs where they are based on what SJCrew said. I think I'm going to use Earthquake instead of Toxic like was suggested before. Thanks for the rates!
 

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