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Cinccino
- Thread starter Ryanide
- Start date
I love chirachiino, and she makes a great lead. I've used:
Technician
Sweep slap
Wake-up slap
Bullet seed
Rock blast
To great success on wifi!
EDIT: Contrary to my following posts, there IS an item that boosts moves that are used in succession, it's called "Metronome". Not sure if it works with moves like sweep slap, but it's a thought.
Technician
Sweep slap
Wake-up slap
Bullet seed
Rock blast
To great success on wifi!
EDIT: Contrary to my following posts, there IS an item that boosts moves that are used in succession, it's called "Metronome". Not sure if it works with moves like sweep slap, but it's a thought.
Isn't ther an item in gen 4 that makes it so multi hit moves hit more? If there is than I would use technichian over skill link
I don't think there is. I'd go for technician anyway, as it makes wake-up slap a viable fighting attack. Plus, it makes each multi-hit have around 40BP per strike (25 without technician) and sweep slap gets stab added onto that.
EDIT: a couple of typos
There isn't? Well I'd still use tech anyways.
In average, multi-hit attacks attack thrice (since the percentages for attacking twice and thrice are 37,5% each and the chance to attack 4 or 5 times is 12,5% each).
Skill link ups this to 5, and technician boosts 3 by 50%, so in average you can say it's 4,5 strikes, meaning skill link gives multi-hit attacks 11,11% more average damage (as well as giving more stable damage). So it's basically that vs having a viable wake-up slap
Skill link ups this to 5, and technician boosts 3 by 50%, so in average you can say it's 4,5 strikes, meaning skill link gives multi-hit attacks 11,11% more average damage (as well as giving more stable damage). So it's basically that vs having a viable wake-up slap
Jirachi Wannabe @ King's Rock
Skill Link
252 Atk 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
Sweet Slap
Seed Bomb
Rock Blast
U-turn/T-wave
Rock blast is generally used on Nattorei since it does not get hurt by rough skin(wadeva). Skill link + King's Rock gives a 40+% chance of flinching and alse a high chance for crit since they are hitting many times. T-wave can make a paraflinching combo or U-turn could be used to attempt to flinch your opponent while switching
Skill Link
252 Atk 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
Sweet Slap
Seed Bomb
Rock Blast
U-turn/T-wave
Rock blast is generally used on Nattorei since it does not get hurt by rough skin(wadeva). Skill link + King's Rock gives a 40+% chance of flinching and alse a high chance for crit since they are hitting many times. T-wave can make a paraflinching combo or U-turn could be used to attempt to flinch your opponent while switching
Skill Link doesnt increase the flinch rate, tohugh I suppos with 5 hits, you have 5 chances of f;inching. However, the 20% chance remains the same. You dont get 5*20%=100% flinch rate.
I would go with T-Wave, since Chillachino is really fast, and you can paralyse slower Pokes, trying to set-up a sweep with slower Pokes.
I would go with T-Wave, since Chillachino is really fast, and you can paralyse slower Pokes, trying to set-up a sweep with slower Pokes.
skill link does not increase flinch rate but hitting more times does. Each hit has 10% (or 20 i dunno) chance of flinching which adds up to ~40%
Yeah, it's multiplicative, so it's:
20% * 20% * 20% * 20% * 20%
And NOT.
20% + 20% + 20% + 20% + 20%.
So: 20 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 41.472.
I don't know if that's worth it, though, as it's the same as Jirachi trying to paraflinch with Zen Headbutt. (Unreliable accuracy + 40% flinch rate.)
20% * 20% * 20% * 20% * 20%
And NOT.
20% + 20% + 20% + 20% + 20%.
So: 20 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 = 41.472.
I don't know if that's worth it, though, as it's the same as Jirachi trying to paraflinch with Zen Headbutt. (Unreliable accuracy + 40% flinch rate.)
What. First of all, according to this very website, King's Rock adds a 10% flinch chance to the moves it affects. Second, your calculations are all wrong - it should be 1 - (0.9^5), which is a 0.40951 flinch rate, or around 40%. Where are you even getting the 20 from?
Someone said it was a 20% flinch chance, so I assumed he was correct.
As for the formula, I must've confused it with some other one, I'm sure that's the formula for multiplying percentages, though.
Honestly, I wouldn´t even try to flinch with this cute girl. She is strong enough to do without it.
I mean, I used this set yesterday on Pokemon Online:
Chillachino@Life Orb
Skill Link
Jolly
252Atk 252Spe 6HP
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Sweep Slap
- U-Turn
With the right moves it 2HKOed some of the strongest physical walls such as Gliscor(Sweep Slap) and Hippowdon(Bullet Seed). It really enjoys being paired with slower U-Turners and switching into Ghost moves. With that combination, Shandera can pretty much watch itself die, if predicted right.
I didn´t test it, but I assume that Choice Band Skill Link would be absolutely devastating.
The best about this is, that it can do very well without Stealth Rock support.
I mean, I used this set yesterday on Pokemon Online:
Chillachino@Life Orb
Skill Link
Jolly
252Atk 252Spe 6HP
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- Sweep Slap
- U-Turn
With the right moves it 2HKOed some of the strongest physical walls such as Gliscor(Sweep Slap) and Hippowdon(Bullet Seed). It really enjoys being paired with slower U-Turners and switching into Ghost moves. With that combination, Shandera can pretty much watch itself die, if predicted right.
I didn´t test it, but I assume that Choice Band Skill Link would be absolutely devastating.
The best about this is, that it can do very well without Stealth Rock support.
Whoops, I should have said 10%, seeing Rock Blast doesnt flinch naturally.
So I think you would get an overall flinch chance of ~20%, if the formula is correct.
Chillachino @ leichi berry
jolly nature
252 atk, 252 speed
technician
rock blast/bullet seed
wake-up-slap
endure
flail
This set is pretty simple, endure down to leichi and sweep with STAB flail. fighing and normal will hit everytihng exept ghost for neural or SE. Rock blast will hit all ghosts for at least neutral, including shedinja. It will also hit shandeerea for SE. It will make a good sweeper in a sunny day team, as they usually have a problem hitting other fire types, and the sun will hopfully enusre that it won't get hurt by sanstorm or hail.
Seed bomb will hit Shandeera and gengar for NVE and won't hit shedinja at all, but can still be used effectivly in lower tiers. Rock blast is definitely superior but bullet seed got perfect accuracy and can be good on a rain dance team to deal with water types.
It is a bit different from the multi hit abuse that most (or even all?) other sets contain, but is still not bad. Personally I use this set as an excause to use my cute charm good iv jolly female chillarmy. Didn't want to waste it so I used it for breeding. I have yet to ev train it, but I do have a lot of experience with flail and pich berries and can therefore tell that this is a good set before using it.
edit: salac adamnt can also work, but I feel like the powr is needed and it is fast enough to outspeed most non-scarfed pokémon. But to be sure that there is nothing left to outspeed it, it is preferably used as a late game sweeper.
Endure is used over sub because falils power will be ruined but taking a hit or getting hit by rocks of you do run it.
jolly nature
252 atk, 252 speed
technician
rock blast/bullet seed
wake-up-slap
endure
flail
This set is pretty simple, endure down to leichi and sweep with STAB flail. fighing and normal will hit everytihng exept ghost for neural or SE. Rock blast will hit all ghosts for at least neutral, including shedinja. It will also hit shandeerea for SE. It will make a good sweeper in a sunny day team, as they usually have a problem hitting other fire types, and the sun will hopfully enusre that it won't get hurt by sanstorm or hail.
Seed bomb will hit Shandeera and gengar for NVE and won't hit shedinja at all, but can still be used effectivly in lower tiers. Rock blast is definitely superior but bullet seed got perfect accuracy and can be good on a rain dance team to deal with water types.
It is a bit different from the multi hit abuse that most (or even all?) other sets contain, but is still not bad. Personally I use this set as an excause to use my cute charm good iv jolly female chillarmy. Didn't want to waste it so I used it for breeding. I have yet to ev train it, but I do have a lot of experience with flail and pich berries and can therefore tell that this is a good set before using it.
edit: salac adamnt can also work, but I feel like the powr is needed and it is fast enough to outspeed most non-scarfed pokémon. But to be sure that there is nothing left to outspeed it, it is preferably used as a late game sweeper.
Endure is used over sub because falils power will be ruined but taking a hit or getting hit by rocks of you do run it.
Here is something to think about-
Chirachinno
"Slap of Death"
Technician
252 Attack 252 Speed 6 HP
-Sweep Slap
-Bullet Seed
-Rock Blast
-Thunder Wave
Basically, STAB and Technician give each hit of Sweep Slap a power of 56.25. So- each use will have a minimum total power of 112.50, 3 hits with 168.75, 4 having 225 power, and 5 with 281.25 total power. This- coupled with her decent attack and great Speed- make Chillachinno a good threat. Thunder Wave paralyzes things that are faster or more Defensive Pokemon that you long for ParaHax on. The other attacks are for coverage and each recieve 37.5 base power per hit, with 75 minumum total power each hit.
~Prof. W.
Chirachinno
"Slap of Death"
Technician
252 Attack 252 Speed 6 HP
-Sweep Slap
-Bullet Seed
-Rock Blast
-Thunder Wave
Basically, STAB and Technician give each hit of Sweep Slap a power of 56.25. So- each use will have a minimum total power of 112.50, 3 hits with 168.75, 4 having 225 power, and 5 with 281.25 total power. This- coupled with her decent attack and great Speed- make Chillachinno a good threat. Thunder Wave paralyzes things that are faster or more Defensive Pokemon that you long for ParaHax on. The other attacks are for coverage and each recieve 37.5 base power per hit, with 75 minumum total power each hit.
~Prof. W.
To those running tech with multi-hit moves:
Don't. It's a bad idea when the pokemon that you're trying to use is really.. not too strong. I mean sure 75 BP min Sweep Slap is great and all but Skill Link Drives that up to a 125 BP for every move. This means that only 25% of the time (unless multi hit formula has changed), you will be hitting higher than Skill Link would. This drives me away from the idea, especially due to the fact that Chillachino needs such high BP moves due to its only okay attack.
Don't. It's a bad idea when the pokemon that you're trying to use is really.. not too strong. I mean sure 75 BP min Sweep Slap is great and all but Skill Link Drives that up to a 125 BP for every move. This means that only 25% of the time (unless multi hit formula has changed), you will be hitting higher than Skill Link would. This drives me away from the idea, especially due to the fact that Chillachino needs such high BP moves due to its only okay attack.
I would prefer Technician. The possibility of only hitting twice well, sucks, but it's got nice power. Between the Technician boosted multi-hit moves and Tech boosted Wake-Up Slap for coverage or Tech U-turn for scouting/switching out of threats/walls, I think it's set. It's also got blazing speed. I remember how shocked I was the first time one out sped my lead Weavile. Granted, it was Jolly and mine was Adamant, but still, outspeeding Weavile means you're pretty damn fast.
On the other hand, you get Tech Wake-Up Slap to deal with Steels that come in to try and absorb your attacks, so there's that advantage for Tech.
On the other hand, you get Tech Wake-Up Slap to deal with Steels that come in to try and absorb your attacks, so there's that advantage for Tech.
I don't know if this was covered already, but you need sweep slap on the substitute-breaker set to beat Breloom, who resists both of your other multi-hit options.
Sub-Punch Breloom (as everyone knows) was incredibly common last generation and, although I don't know how common it is this generation, it's a good idea to have it covered.
Sub-Punch Breloom (as everyone knows) was incredibly common last generation and, although I don't know how common it is this generation, it's a good idea to have it covered.
I haven't seen a single Sub-Punch Breloom yet, and they were as omnipresent as Heatran and Scizor last gen. If I ever see Breloom, it seems to be a Technician Mach Punch variation with Swords Dance. Very different from the good ole standard Breloom we know from Gen 4.
Irrelevant to my argument, but all fast pokemon should run speed boosting natures unless adamant guarantees a specific KO or said pokemon is relatively uncommon (electrode for example).
There are two OU steel types that don't outright KO or take neutral damage - Heatran (which is often scarfed and has high defense in general) and Lucario (E-speed does a good deal of damage). Against the rest, you're really better off just U-turning out because a weak, neutral wake up slap is really just not enough.
Oh and Tech doesn't boost U-turn (I have no clue why people think this); it has 70 power..
Chillachino seems to be the new Ambipom, just without ambipom's awesome lead capabilities, but better type coverage. Check out their stats:
Chillachino: 75/95/60/65/60/115
Ambipom: 75/100/66/60/66/115
lol. Funny thing is, Ambipom gets Skill Link from the DW. The Pom is a better technician, Quentin Chillachino is a much better skill linker. Ambipom gets STAB Techncian Fake Out and Double Hit along with Taunt, Low Kick from the gen IV tutors, and a tech-boosted pursuit. Both get U-Turn. Al Pachillachino gets better coverage with Rock Blast and Bullet Seed, but loses almost everything that made Ambipom awesome. I'm definitely going to use this guy, but he's no pom-pom.
Chillachino: 75/95/60/65/60/115
Ambipom: 75/100/66/60/66/115
lol. Funny thing is, Ambipom gets Skill Link from the DW. The Pom is a better technician, Quentin Chillachino is a much better skill linker. Ambipom gets STAB Techncian Fake Out and Double Hit along with Taunt, Low Kick from the gen IV tutors, and a tech-boosted pursuit. Both get U-Turn. Al Pachillachino gets better coverage with Rock Blast and Bullet Seed, but loses almost everything that made Ambipom awesome. I'm definitely going to use this guy, but he's no pom-pom.
Wrong (if this is correct). Assuming mechanics are the same as 4th generation for multi-hit moves:
With Technician:
1/8th chance of (25BP*2Hits)*STAB*Tech=112.5
3/8th chance of (25BP*3Hits)*STAB*Tech=168.75
3/8th chance of (25BP*4Hits)*STAB*Tech=225
1/8th chance of (25BP*5Hits)*STAB*Tech=281.25
This averages out to 196.875 BP each time you use it.
Compare this to Skill Link:
(25BP*5Hits)*STAB=187.5
198.875 > 187.5, therefore Technician is better when simply looking at averages.
However, there is a 1/2 chance that a Skill Linked Sweep Slap will actually do more than Tech-Slap; likewise, there is a 1/2 chance that Tech-Slap will do more than Link-Slap. All in all, if you like reliable damage, go Skill Link. Otherwise, go Technician as Technician-Slap does more damage to the opponent.
Those aren't the mechanics. It's 2 hits and 3 hits that have the 37.5% chance, and 4 hits and 5 hits that have the 12.5% chance.
My main problem with chillaccino is how similar it is to ambipom. same typing, abilities, (pickup and cute charm are useless) and very similar stats make it so that the only distinction is movepool
a side by side comparison of stats:
Chillaccino: 75/95/60/65/60/115
Ambipom: 75/100/66/60/66/115
none of their base stats are more than 6 apart, which is quite remarkable. Chillaccino only has more sp. Att. which he probably won't use too much anyway.
So what really Sets them apart is movepool. and while Chillachino has numerous multi-hit moves to abuse, ambipom has fake-out, taunt, and other staples that make him an effective lead.
tl;dr: I think chillachino is useful for hitting hard with multi hit Attacks, while ambipom is still a superior lead. but I'm not exactly a pokemon authority, so my thoughts aren't law.
a side by side comparison of stats:
Chillaccino: 75/95/60/65/60/115
Ambipom: 75/100/66/60/66/115
none of their base stats are more than 6 apart, which is quite remarkable. Chillaccino only has more sp. Att. which he probably won't use too much anyway.
So what really Sets them apart is movepool. and while Chillachino has numerous multi-hit moves to abuse, ambipom has fake-out, taunt, and other staples that make him an effective lead.
tl;dr: I think chillachino is useful for hitting hard with multi hit Attacks, while ambipom is still a superior lead. but I'm not exactly a pokemon authority, so my thoughts aren't law.
