WIP Cinderace (Fire)

[OVERVIEW]

Fire
========

Cinderace is a powerful physical attacker because of its incredible Speed allowing to outpace the likes of Nidoking and Kyurem, combined with its Libero ability and high Attack stat. Cinderace has access to many coverage options such as High Jump Kick, Pyro Ball, and Gunk Shot, that allows it to be good matchup against a plethora of types such as Dark, Fairy, and Normal. However, Cinderace is not bulky enough to deal with attacks from faster and strong targets like from Choice Scarf Landorus-T or Choice Specs Tapu Koko while it is also unable to break past walls such as Toxapex even with Bulk Up.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Pyro Ball
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Bulk Up / Gunk Shot
item: Heavy Duty Boots
ability: Libero
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Pyro Ball is Cinderace's strongest Fire-type attack, being a STAB move that targets threats like Volcarona, Tapu Lele, Galarian Zapdos, Kyurem, and Mimikyu. Sucker Punch checks faster Pokemon like Regieleki, Zeraora, Choice Scarf Blacephalon, Baraskewda, and Dragapult. Low kick targets Normal-, Dark-, and Rock-type threats that can take hits from Pyro Ball such as Porygon2, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, and also Heatran as a honorable mention due to its Flash Fire ability. . Maximum investment in Speed and Attack, Jolly nature, and Libero ability give Cinderace advantage over common threats like Gengar, Heliolisk, and Terrakion without Choice Scarf, by outspeeding them and hitting them hard with its STAB moves, leading to potentional KOs.

Torkoal is an outstanding teammate for Cinderace, as it provides sun support, making Pyro Ball even more powerful and also it can
setup Stealth Rock, helping Cinderace secure more KOs. Screens Rotom-H is also a good partner for Cinderace, setting Reflect and Light Screen that give Cinderace an easier time setting up, while also providing a Ground-type immunity with its Levitate ability. Offensive Trapper Heatran can trap and eventually KO, with the combination of Magma Storm and Taunt, annoying walls that are able to slow down Cinderace such as Toxapex, Galarian Corsola, and Mandibuzz while it also grants a neutrality from Rock-Type attacks, making it a safe option for Cinderace to switch into, if it faces a threatening Rock-Type Pokemon such as Rhyperior. Cinderace appreciates physical wallbreaking from Choice Band Victini as it is capable of wearing down and even KO tough matchups for it such as Landorus-T and Mantine, using its powerful STAB moves. Special Wallbreakers like Volcarona and Blacephalon are really powerful options for breaking down troublesome physical walls that Cinderace struggles getting past such as Hippowdon, Slowbro and Seismitoad while Volcarona with Psychic can also deal with Poison types like Toxapex.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Fire
--------
Zen Headbutt targets Poison-types such as Toxapex that can take most of Cinderace's other attacks and also troublesome Fighting-types like Keldeo. Choice Scarf allows Cinderace to act as a revenge killer, outspeeding threats like Tapu Koko, Weavile, Cloyster after one Shell Smash boost, and Zeraora while also helps it outspeed other Choice Scarf users such as Buzzwole, Galarian Darmanitan, and Krookodile. Life Orb and Choice Band further boost Cinderace's attacking power. High Jump Kick is a Fighting-type STAB move that can replace Low Kick, as it OHKOs Pokemon like Blissey and Kyurem. Cinderace has, also, access to utility moves such as Court Change and U-turn. Court Change is a unique move that allows Cinderace to steal the opposing effects of Reflect, Light Screen, and Aurora Veil from the likes of Grimmsnarl and Alolan Ninetales, while also being able to push negative hazards to the other side such as Sticky Web and Stealth Rock, which is appreciated by Fire-type teams due to their weakness to Stealth Rock. U-turn helps Cinderace escape bad matchups such as Dragonite, Hippowdon, Galarian Corsola, and Garchomp, bringing in the right teammate to deal with them while also helps setup partners like Volcarona to come in safely and start performing their role.

Checks and Counters
===================

Fire
--------
**Revenge Killers**: Revenge Killers such as Choice Scarf Tapu Lele, Excadrill under sandstorm, and Kingdra under rain can revenge kill and OHKO Cinderace with their powerful STAB attacks. Priority moves such as Shadow Sneak from Mimikyu, Sucker Punch from Bisharp, and Aqua Jet from Crawdaunt are very threatening to Cinderace, as they can deal decent amount of damage to it and even KO it if its weakened.

**Status**: Paralysis reduces Cinderace's Speed, which prevents it from performing its role effectively and lets more threats to outspeed and OHKO it such as Keldeo. Toxic puts it on a timer and decreases Cinderace's turns of being available. Cinderace also has to be aware of burn status due to the fact that Libero changes its Fire typing and thus it can be burned easily by Will-O-Wisp users such as Sableye.

**Bulky Water-Types**: Water-types like Toxapex, Gastrodon, Seismitoad, and Slowbro can take most hits from Cinderace with reduced or neutral damage and can tank while attacking it back with STAB Water-type moves such as Scald.

**Physical Walls**: Hippowdon and Galarian Corsola are foes capable of facing Cinderace and hitting it back with their attacking moves or status.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lialiabeast, 564420]]
- <Fire> analysis by: [[Lialiabeast, 564420]]
- Quality checked by: [[<username1>, <userid1>], [<username2>, <userid2>]]
- Grammar checked by: [[<username1>, <userid1>], [<username2>, <userid2>]]
 
Last edited:

roxiee

Oh wow, I'm a princess.
is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Heya, can you change the set to:

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Low Kick
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch

Gunk Shot in Moves
OO: HJK, Zen Headbutt, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Court Change, U-turn, Electro Ball (it doesn't get Thunder Punch).

You can tryout this team for reference
 
Heya, can you change the set to:

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Low Kick
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch

Gunk Shot in Moves
OO: HJK, Zen Headbutt, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Court Change, U-turn, Electro Ball (it doesn't get Thunder Punch).

You can tryout this team for reference
Hello isn't the set I mentioned viable? Also about the team, I already mentioned most of the members of your team and I have tried all the teammates I mentioned and they can work well with Cinderace... If I have to remove any partner or add somebody for a specific reason then let me know. (also sorry about the Thunder Punch part I had something else in mind)
 

roxiee

Oh wow, I'm a princess.
is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Bulk Up being in Other Options is definitely not ideal at all. Giving up coverage to use a fast offensive Pokemon as a potential hazard control when there is Torkoal, Rotom-H, and Volcanion available as forms of hazard control is not necessary at all. The same applies for U-turn, Volcarona can already handle Psychic-types pretty with Incineroar and Heatran being checks to Psychic-types also. Bulk Up allows Cinderace to break through walls alongside Volcarona since Volcarona on its own has many stuff it can't beat. Fire appreciates the slow pivoters in Incineroar / Rotom-H more as opposed to a fast pivot into a defensive Pokemon. You listed Hippowdon as a U-turn example but its not doing much to it and the chip damage isn't more important than the current set but besides the point, you can just go into Rotom-H instead and click Toxic if you have it or setup screens and sweep Ground. The team is mentioned as a reference and something in consideration if you aren't familiar with the set.
 
Bulk Up being in Other Options is definitely not ideal at all. Giving up coverage to use a fast offensive Pokemon as a potential hazard control when there is Torkoal, Rotom-H, and Volcanion available as forms of hazard control is not necessary at all. The same applies for U-turn, Volcarona can already handle Psychic-types pretty with Incineroar and Heatran being checks to Psychic-types also. Bulk Up allows Cinderace to break through walls alongside Volcarona since Volcarona on its own has many stuff it can't beat. Fire appreciates the slow pivoters in Incineroar / Rotom-H more as opposed to a fast pivot into a defensive Pokemon. You listed Hippowdon as a U-turn example but its not doing much to it and the chip damage isn't more important than the current set but besides the point, you can just go into Rotom-H instead and click Toxic if you have it or setup screens and sweep Ground. The team is mentioned as a reference and something in consideration if you aren't familiar with the set.
Okay makes sense. Should I put this in WIP and start over then?
 

roxiee

Oh wow, I'm a princess.
is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Change the set name to "Offensive"

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Pyro Ball
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Low Kick

move 4: Bulk Up / Gunk Shot

Cinderace's incredible Speed, great Attack stat, Libero ability coupled with a variety of STAB moves such as Pyro Ball, and access to Bulk Up make it a viable physical attacker and threatening setup sweeper for Fire-type teams, that can easily threaten targets that are not really fast and weak to its coverage such as Kyurem, Excadrill, and Alolan Ninetales. [Don't say STAB moves, just say coverage options. You only listed pyro ball so like add 1-2 more moves just for the sentence. You can say something like "Cinderace is a powerful phy atker because of its speed allowing it to outpace kyu and nido and then continue with atk, libero, and that's it. Sentence is just way too long. This is a Fire team, there is no reason to list alolan ninetales in these examples.]

Cinderace has access to many coverage STAB moves such as High Jump Kick, Pyro Ball, Low Kick, and Gunk Shot, that allows it to be good matchup against a plethora of types such as Dark and Normal and targeting threats like Tyranitar, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Fini. This should be very brief. Do not use STAB moves as a term. You are putting emphasis on its coverage options and this should start off with the phrase "Furthermore," instead of "Cinderace" to tell the reader you're talking about something you've recently talked about in the previous sentence.

However, Cinderace is not bulky enough to deal with attacks from faster and strong targets like Earthquake from Choice Scarf Landorus-T or Thunderbolt from Choice Specs Tapu Koko and priority moves such as Extreme Speed from Choice Band Dragonite, making vulnerable in general and that leads to limiting its chances to switch in safely while also keeping it from setting up with Bulk Up. [This needs to be put in two different sentences, not smooshed in one]
Its sole Fire typing doesn't help with its defenses because that means it gets super effective hits often from Ground-, Rock- , and Water-type Pokemon, which all are pretty common.

[Set]
- Pyro Ball is Cinderace's strongest Fire-type attack, being a STAB move that can deal decent amount of damage to any target that doesn't resist or is weak to Fire-type attacks such as targets Volcarona, Tapu Lele, Galarian Zapdos, Ferrothorn, and Scizor. Don't mention obvious dual fire weak Pokemon that has poor performance against fire as a whole.
- Sucker Punch allows Cinderace to revenge kill faster, weakened threats checks faster Pokemon like Regieleki, Zeraora, Choice Scarf Blacephalon, Baraskewda, and Dragapult. [direct and straight to the point]
- Low kick targets Normal-, Dark-, and Rock-type threats that can take hits from Pyro Ball such as Porygon2, Hydreigon, Tyranitar, and also Heatran as a honorable mention due to its Flash Fire ability, while its secondary effect helps Cinderace deal a decent amount of damage to targets that are considered to be heavy such as Celesteela, Stakataka, and Melmetal. [Way too long. Telling the reader that it does more damage to heavy pokemon is not required at all.
- gunk shot hits azu. do not label it as a other option.
- cinderace outspeeds nido, mimi, and nihi with an adamant nature. use other examples.

[Teammates]
- Volcanion is terrible remove it
- Remove Darmanitan
- Reread over this paragraph again

[OO]
put hjk after scarf

[C&C]
Fini is a gunk shot target so..

This analysis requires 2 QC stamps so change it to QC: 0/2, tag me when you implement this
 

roxiee

Oh wow, I'm a princess.
is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
[overview]

Your examples: Tapu Fini and Lele are not apart of Normal and Dark. Add Fairy into this mention. (Dark, Fairy, Normal) in that order. This part also doesn’t need examples just list what types it’s good in rather than what the moves actually target. You already explain what the move hits in the Set description.



Don’t say the moves from Landorus and Tapu Koko.



The Pokémon doesn’t have to be faster at all to deal damage either. Slower Pokémon like toxapex and mandibuzz(without sun). Mention that Cinderace is unable to break past some defensive walks even with bulk up. I wouldn’t mentioned mandibuzz in these examples as there are better.



“Also, priority moves such as Extreme Speed from Choice Band Dragonite target Cinderace and can KO it if it is weakened and so Cinderace is vulnerable in general and that leads to limiting its chances to switch in safely.” Remove this. You mention it’s frailty in the previous line. (Side note: no one uses cb dragonite and if dragonite was mentioned.



[Set]

When you say “Low kick targets x and y type” you actually have to provide an example for each of the types that you mentioned. Mention why Low Kick is preferred over HJK to the reader after this also tbh.



Melmetal is not a great bulk up example at all for this analysis. This is a monotype fire analysis not a pre-dlc Ou analysis and tbe combination of Fire’s resistance to Steel, Sun, and potentially screens makes me think that Melmetal isn’t as effective of an example for the reader. Bulk Up and Gunk Shot are two different things.



What does Bulk Up do for Cinderace? Are there any notable types or even Pokémon that the move helps with breaking. Azumarill and Tapu Fini are Water-types that resist three of its other coverage moves and that should be mentioned as gunk shot is used for that specific reason.



For Rotom you can mention screens and it’s use for Flying with its nasty plot set.



Remove the “without scarf” part on Landorus.



Galarian Weezing is not a threat at all towards fire so remove.



“Also Victini, as well as Incineroar, become solid teammates that can bring Cinderace in safely, which is appreciated because of Cinderace's fear of switching in and taking attacks that can't handle, as Victini has access to U-Turn and Incineroar to U-Turn and also Parting Shot.” This is too long and you also have this in the wrong place. Consider this an introduction sentence for victini and incineroar. (Introduction-> Victini line -> Incineroar line). You don’t need to emphasis that Cinderace is weak as fuck, that’s done in the overview. This is the teammates section so this can be cut down a bit.



Volcarona needs a line abt how it’s the Poison breaker with psychic.



[oo]

Weavile is not a threat to fire pls remove. Pretty sure cinderace can live a scarf knock regardless.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top