Cloyster[QC2/3]

[OVERVIEW]

Cloyster has access to one of the best set-up move in the game in Shell Smash. Its ability skill link makes it extremely threatening as it gives Cloyster a powerful 125 BP STAB Move with no drawbacks in Icicle Spear. Cloyster's massive defense stat allows it to set up on a lot of Physical attackers. However Cloyster is greatly let down by its terrible HP and Special Defense stats and so it gets Ko'ed by nearly every special attacker. It also has a bad typing defensively and so it has little safe set-up opportunities. Its speed and attack are also Sub-par before it has boosted.

[SET]
name: Shell Smash Sweeper
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Icicle Spear
move 3: Hydro Pump
move 4: Explosion
item: Normalium Z / Life Orb
ability: Skill Link
nature: Naughty
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Shell Smash is the move that makes Cloyster extremely threatening as it raises its Attack,Special Attack and Speed by 2 stages although it does lower its defense and Special defense by one stage. Icicle Spear is its best STAB attack that hits 125 Base Power after all 5 hits and can also break Focus Sashes and Sturdy. Hydro Pump allows it to beat Durant and Doublade. Z-Explosion allows it to break opposing water types like Slowking and Milotic which are resistant to both Icicle Spear and Hydro Pump without sacrificing itself and the combination of Z-explosion and Explosion allows it to beat even extremely bulky pokemon like Slowbro, Cresselia and Pyukumuku allowing another pokemon in the team to sweep.


Set Details
========

The Evs maximize its Sweeping potential as much as possible. Naughty nature is used as Cloyster needs all the power it can to break opposing walls. Normalium-Z allows it to break bulky pokemon that its other moves cannot without sacrificing itself. However Naive nature can be used to outspeed and avoid being revenge killed by Scarf Shaymin,Scarf Durant and Venusaur in Sun. Life orb can be used however if some other pokemon in the team has taken the Z-move slot and it can OHKO Cresselia,Doublade and Slowbro at +2.

Usage Tips
========

Cloyster gets Ko'ed by almost every special attacker due to its poor Special Defense and so it should try to set-up only in front of a Physical Attacker which it is not weak to,taking advantage of its massive Defense stat. Gligar, Donphan,Sneasel and Bruxish are generally good targets to set-up on as they can't do much to it. Cloyster should be sent to sweep only after its checks like Registeel, Cresselia and Doublade are weakened to the required level. It is a good idea to remove entry hazards from the field before sending Cloyster in as cloyster is weak to stealth rock and it may help Cloyster to survive a priority attack after its defense has been lowered by a stage.


Team Options
========

Cloyster appreciates Dual screens and Memento support a lot as they help Cloyster to set-up despite its poor typing and very low special bulk. Zoroark in particular is a good candidate as it can lure and beat Pokemons that give Cloyster trouble like Doublade,Cresselia,Slowbro and Cofagrigus if played properly while also providing memento support.However there should be no stealth rocks in the field as Hazard Damage will give away the true pokemon. Entry Hazards are helpful in wearing down Cloyster's checks as a lot of them don't have reliable recovery.So Entry Hazards setters like Gigalith,Roserade and Froslass are good teammates. Cleaners and other sweepers that appreciate Cloyster's explosion in breaking down bulky water types and Unaware users like Aerodactyl and Flygon are also good teammates. Entry hazard removers like Gligar and Dhelmise are helpful as Cloyster is weak to stealth rock.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Waterium-Z with Razor Shell is an option to break past steel types like Registeel,Escavlier and Brozong which can otherwise take on Cloyster.However,it cannot beat the bulky water types and cannot break Whimsicott if it encores unlike Z-explosion. A choice banded set can be used with Ice Shard and Razor Shell as it can revenge kill Flygon,Honckrow,weakened Kommo-O and Tyrantrum while also being powerful without setting up. Cloyster has access to Rapid Spin, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes but it has neither good speed nor good typing to use these effectively. White Herb, King's Rock or Focus sash can be used in the main set but they are generally Outclassed or situational.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Steel types**: Steel types like Registeel,Escavlier and Bronzong don't take too much from Cloyster even if it has set up and can stop its sweep by either Knocking it out or crippling it with thunder wave or toxic.

**Unaware Users**: Pyukumuku and Quagshire can easily wall Cloyster even it has set up due to unaware and explosion deals only around 50 percent damage which they can heal back with recover. However they take about 90 percent damage to the combination of Z-Explosion into explosion allowing other Set-up sweepers to sweep.

**Slowbro**: Slowbro can survive any attack from Cloyster even at +2 except life orb boosted Explosion and has access to Regenerator and Slack-off making it extremely difficult to wear it down for cloyster to sweep.

**Phyiscally Bulky walls**: Physically bulky walls not weak to its moves like Cresselia, Cofagrigus,Doublade and Necrozma can easily stop Cloyster's sweep when they are at near max health and beat it. A weakened Cofagrigus can also remove Cloyster's skill link thus making it unable to sweep the rest of the team as it requires the Maximum power from icicle spear to KO opposing pokemons.

**Certain Revengekillers**: Vacum Wave Toxicroak,Scarf Shaymin,Offenisve Comfey and weather sweepers like kabutops and venasaur can easily revenge kill it after it has set-up.
 
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phantom

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i'm just gonna save you some time and you let you know that what you have is not the cloyster set that should be on the analysis.

this is:

Cloyster @ Normalium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Hydro Pump
- Explosion

Waterium Z helps it break almost nothing cloyster struggles with, whereas Rock Blast doesn't provide any useful coverage. the water move you want to use since you seemed unsure about is hydro pump so that cloyster isn't stopped by doublade and so that it can ohko durant. Z Explosion unlike rock blast lets it break through a number of important targets:

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 188 HP / 144 Def Snorlax: 449-529 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 322-379 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

when using life orb:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 421-497 (106.8 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

z boom is also nice to bypass whimsicott, which waterium cannot do. so basically explosion matters a lot on cloyster or it's much easier to check and rock blast is a worse way at targeting water-types aside from jellicent, which is pretty rare anyhow.
 
i'm just gonna save you some time and you let you know that what you have is not the cloyster set that should be on the analysis.

this is:

Cloyster @ Normalium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Hydro Pump
- Explosion

Waterium Z helps it break almost nothing cloyster struggles with, whereas Rock Blast doesn't provide any useful coverage. the water move you want to use since you seemed unsure about is hydro pump so that cloyster isn't stopped by doublade and so that it can ohko durant. Z Explosion unlike rock blast lets it break through a number of important targets:

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 188 HP / 144 Def Snorlax: 449-529 (88.3 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 322-379 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

when using life orb:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 421-497 (106.8 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

z boom is also nice to bypass whimsicott, which waterium cannot do. so basically explosion matters a lot on cloyster or it's much easier to check and rock blast is a worse way at targeting water-types aside from jellicent, which is pretty rare anyhow.
I can see the merits of running Explosion like it can bypass whimsicott,take on Slowbro and milotic and it can KO Pyukumuku and Quagshire by sacrificing itself and allowing other sweepers in the team to sweep but Z-Dive does have its own merit like it can OHKO Registeel,Bronzong,Escavlier and Porygon2 which areused to check Cloyster while also being able to OHKO Gigalith,Cofagrigus and also Necrozma after SR damage and deals atleast 67-78 to both Doublade and Cresselia (can break through both of them after some amount of prior damage and stealth rock which isn't tough,hydro pump doesn't do more to Doublade) and to tell the honest truth Slowbro and Milotic are much rare than these after Talonflame got banned.

Also due to its bad typing that doesn't give it any useful resistances Setting-up is difficult with Cloyster without moves like Memento and Light screen and Zoroark being one of the best memento users and being able to lure Slowbro,Milotic,Quagshire Doublade and Cresselia with Grass Knot and Dark Pulse also needs to be considered and running a negative nature on its special defense also restricts its ability to set-up on Aromatisse,Florges and Comfey as a last resort opportunity.

I do agree that Non Z-move Dive can be taken advantage by the opponent if he predicts well great move but the ability to take on a lot of its checks without sacrificing itself makes it deserve atleast a mention and even a predicted explosion can be taken advantage of.

And Z-Razor Shell can do the same as Z-Dive but it requires some more prior damage to KO Cofagrigus,Registeel,Necrozma,Cresselia and Doublade(deals like 10 percent less)

So essentially Waterium-z allows it to break past Steel Types while Z-Explosion allows it to get past water types!!
 
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phantom

is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
RU Leader
Aside from Registeel, it can beat the steel types just fine with hydro pump and none of the other targets you mentioned z dive being useful for can actually withstand a +2 icicle spear that well anyway so I don't understand the point in calcing those.

As for your post about the minus special defense nature, you generally shouldn't be setting up on special attackers anyway since they tend to ko you when you're at -1, especially after stealth rock damage, so suggesting that a minus special defense nature is that much more of a bother makes me question if you have the knowledge to actually write this. In addition to the fact that you suggest necrozma was more important than slowbro and milotic... So far, waterium z shows to be more effective against registeel and is less consistent than the cloyster set I posted in pretty much every other regard. I don't think the reasons you listed for waterium z are adequate, and unless you can show another cloyster set is that much better, which I don't think there is, you need to make the set I posted the main one or this will be reassigned.
 
Aside from Registeel, it can beat the steel types just fine with hydro pump and none of the other targets you mentioned z dive being useful for can actually withstand a +2 icicle spear that well anyway so I don't understand the point in calcing those.

As for your post about the minus special defense nature, you generally shouldn't be setting up on special attackers anyway since they tend to ko you when you're at -1, especially after stealth rock damage, so suggesting that a minus special defense nature is that much more of a bother makes me question if you have the knowledge to actually write this. In addition to the fact that you suggest necrozma was more important than slowbro and milotic... So far, waterium z shows to be more effective against registeel and is less consistent than the cloyster set I posted in pretty much every other regard. I don't think the reasons you listed for waterium z are adequate, and unless you can show another cloyster set is that much better, which I don't think there is, you need to make the set I posted the main one or this will be reassigned.
I just took the main sets of these pokemons
+2 4 SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 133-157 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 4 SpA Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 135-160 (39.9 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I am not arguing for waterium-Z to be the main set.I do agree Explosion is much more reliable and gives u a 200 BP move twice but its just that due to the niches I have said it atleast deserves a mention for being able to lure and get past the steal types.

Also I said setting up on a special attacker like Florges was just a last resort option and to make it clear I mentioned the steel types to be more common than Slowbro and Milotic and not important,I do get that Slowbro is more important as it is difficult to wear it down due to regenerator unlike the others.
 
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Bullet points please before QC #3. Only after the 2nd QC check are you supposed to write the analysis up!
 

MrAldo

Hey
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- Would just relegate the mention of Waterium-Z to other options. Normalium Z allows cloyster to be a much more efficient cleaner and early game wallbreaker that Waterium-Z
- Regarding Waterium-Z, the mention of dive is worrysome. Mention Razor Shell instead, move that does something else besides a strong z-move unlike dive. Doubt the 5 and 10 bp difference on the move and z-move respectively would make a difference.
- Not digging the ambipom mention on Pokemon Cloyster can setup on. We try to mention viable options in general when writing the analyses and ambipom isnt viable. Mention Sneasel instead.
- Would mention the benefits of running a naive nature on set details, which allow Cloyster to avoid getting revenge killed by scarf durant and venusaur in the sun.
- Checks and counters formatting is off. The main points like Unaware users should be between **

QC 1/3 once implemented
 
- Would just relegate the mention of Waterium-Z to other options. Normalium Z allows cloyster to be a much more efficient cleaner and early game wallbreaker that Waterium-Z
- Regarding Waterium-Z, the mention of dive is worrysome. Mention Razor Shell instead, move that does something else besides a strong z-move unlike dive. Doubt the 5 and 10 bp difference on the move and z-move respectively would make a difference.
- Not digging the ambipom mention on Pokemon Cloyster can setup on. We try to mention viable options in general when writing the analyses and ambipom isnt viable. Mention Sneasel instead.
- Would mention the benefits of running a naive nature on set details, which allow Cloyster to avoid getting revenge killed by scarf durant and venusaur in the sun.
- Checks and counters formatting is off. The main points like Unaware users should be between **

QC 1/3 once implemented
Implemented.Ready for the 2nd QC Check
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
the overview is a mess. it gets the main points across but its written very badly and offers vague information imo. first of all, I don't think Cloyster is a very good Pokemon for many reasons. It's really hard to set up with, being SR weak and vulnerable to all forms of hazards, in addition to having pitiful hp and pitiful spdef, it rarely ever finds times to set up. then there's the problem of it being walled by registeel which is a staple on any defensive team of any kind, and a very common top tier threat in general. then there's comfey who can KO at -1 with Draining Kiss, and not to mention other types of priority.

I'll come back later to take a more detailed look because I'm pressed for time right now, but the analysis overall is very outdated, partly due to qc's fault in not checking it earlier, and needs a rehaul imo.
 
the overview is a mess. it gets the main points across but its written very badly and offers vague information imo. first of all, I don't think Cloyster is a very good Pokemon for many reasons. It's really hard to set up with, being SR weak and vulnerable to all forms of hazards, in addition to having pitiful hp and pitiful spdef, it rarely ever finds times to set up. then there's the problem of it being walled by registeel which is a staple on any defensive team of any kind, and a very common top tier threat in general. then there's comfey who can KO at -1 with Draining Kiss, and not to mention other types of priority.

I'll come back later to take a more detailed look because I'm pressed for time right now, but the analysis overall is very outdated, partly due to qc's fault in not checking it earlier, and needs a rehaul imo.
Yep the analysis is terribly outdated (was written in the second week of ru coming out of beta)I'll revamp this completely when I get time
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
KoldKappuccino how do you wanna go about this? Do you wanna put it back in bulletpoint form and work on updating it, or drop it? it's up to you tbh cuz at this point it probably needs to be written again from scratch lmao.
 
KoldKappuccino how do you wanna go about this? Do you wanna put it back in bulletpoint form and work on updating it, or drop it? it's up to you tbh cuz at this point it probably needs to be written again from scratch lmao.
I think I'll drop this.Its been some time since I've played in RU and I am hardly getting nay free time these days.So dropping this
 

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