The reason why Belly Drum and Gouging Fire are broken is because they lack diverse counterplay. You've mentioned an Unaware Pokemon. Are there any other strategies besides Unaware? Exactly what Haze/Clear Smog Pokemon is reliably stopping a Belly Drummer?
First of all thank you for your solution-seeking tone and respectful discussion.
Answering your question: Many other strategies and many other mons. I have used Unaware Torkoal with 252DEF, switched in after the Belly Drum and used Clear Smog after his Close Combat took only 41% of my HP, then I used Parting Shot.
But I give more examples.
Conkeldurr Belly Drums. You can:
a-) Switch in an Unaware Cresselia, Clefable or whatever Psychic Fairy and send him to hell (his bullet punch wouldn't make a scratch)
b-) Sacrifice the mon that was playing then switching to a
Prankster Mandibuzz, using
Haze and then
Parting Shot
c-) Sacrifice the mon that was playing and use a Flying-Normal with
Gale Wings and Drill Peck or Brave Bird him to hell
d-) Sacrifice the mon that was playing and use an Eviolite Fluffy Dusclops or any other Ghost to Will O'Wisp him (he cant Sucker Punch a Status)
e-) Sacrifice the mon that was playing and using
Queenly Majesty Ogerpon with
Choice Band to Wood Hammer him to death
I am sure there are many other counters.
Not sure what this example is supposed to illustrate. If the Kyurem had instead used Glaive Rush instead of setting up first (I'm assuming you switched Regice into Kyurem?) then Regice would not live a +2 Glaive Rush later. Regice gets 2HKOed by Glaive Rush anyways.
No, Kyurem killed the mon that was playing, then I putted Regice and he tanked a 2x Glaive Rush. In my humble opinion, if anything requires 2 hits to do a K.O, its not broken.
You again mention Unaware. The current Steel types with Earth Eater lack any form of reliable recovery. Skarmory gets 2HKOed by a +1 Icicle Crash.
Earth Eater Registeel with Rest/Chesto can do the trick. Iron Defense -> Rest -> Chesto -> Body Press. This is just
one example.
Running a Focus Sash Pokemon (with Clear Smog/Haze????) is not a good long-term strategy and only exists rarely on revenge killers/anti-sweepers, such as Focus Sash Marshadow in National Dex Ubers.
+2 252 Atk Kyurem Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 159-187 (47.6 - 55.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO
I agree it might not me a good long-term strategy
and that's exactly my point. You think I like running a Prankster Deoxys with Haze? It's an useless mon with no attack, but he always frustrates this setters, I use it on my team specifically to counter it and I see no problem in it, even tho I agree with you is not a good long-term strategy. I am sure your Galar-Weezing could Clear Smog too.
Okay. Why am I forced to run a Choice Scarf Pokemon just to defeat Sneasler? And what is this scarfed Pokemon in question?
The same way I have to adapt and use, for instance, a Keldeo with Secret Sword and Surf, so I can attack the Defenses of a Chansey and the Sp.Def of a Skarmory without switching and providing the chance to Roost or Soft-Boil, or Teleport or whatever.
I use Scarf mons specifically to counter it. Many people don't like Grassy Glide, for an example, but use it specifically to counter Inteleon and Barraskewda that are fast and dangerous. We should accept it.
Whenever I am teambuilding I can imagine your team, for an example, Regenvest Suicune, Skarmory, Chansey, G-Weezing and others. When I am building I ask myself, am I able to break 4 walls? Sometimes I do put another pokemon I don't like it to counter it.
But no, you are not forced to run Scarf to beat Sneasler, but you do have to adapt your team, same way people adapt to yours, as I have said. You can use a Gale Wings Braviary for Sneasler, a Scarfed Azelf with Psycho Boost or even a normal Landorus-T, come on, its not that hard...
If we apply your logic of just having "wild ideas to counter these teams", then Umbreon, Roaring Moon, Sneasler, and Haxorus wouldn't be banned because they all balance each other out or whatever.
That's not what I said or meant. What I said is that for every strong umbalanced offensive thing getting banned, one very strong umbalanced defensive thing gets overlooked. Just look at your examples, 01 defensive mon banned for 03 offensive mon banned. I've played against 4 regenvests + 1 Unaware today, If it were to ban somethign offensive, it might as well use a 2-Ability Max Clause to stop it. That is what I have said.
Because all of the offensive things getting invented are being invented to break stall-wall sets.
Besides, Umbreon was
naturally umbalanced with base stats of 600def without doing anything + healing + parting shot... It wasn't
one thing that made him broken.
Same thing with Haxorus. Base 147atk stat + Dragon's Maw + Outrage that does 120dmg + access to Poison Jab and Iron Head for Fairies, he was naturally broken. It was easier banning him than Dragon's Maw, because Goodra can use Dragon's Maw + Energy, so it was a good call banning him,
Roaring Moon with Band and Hustle was simply ridiculous, you could have any Unaware you wanted and it wouldn't stop him. Good ban with no counters.
Sneasler I didn't like to see her banned, I think banning Dire Claw would be more appropriate, because the problem was the adding stack of Toxic Chain + Dire Claw, leaving with 75% of statusing after every hit, besides, Dire Claw caused to sleep too. I think the problem was Dire Claw, not Sneasler... But there it goes another offensive mon banned while the defensive stalls are walking free.
