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Pokémon Copperajah
- Thread starter lydian
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No, that happened to me as well, I don't believe it's supposed to, but I'm not sure. They're in the process of fleshing things out, so if it is an error, it will likely be fixed soon.
I just ran some calcs on copperajah. His HP and defenses are really weirdly tuned. As long as you spend EVs equally into Def+SpDef, you can freely change EVs between HP and the defenses if you only put 252 EVs into defensive stats. Specifically:
252/0/0/0/0/0
0/0/128/0/128/0
128/0/64/0/64/0
192/0/32/0/32/0
These EV spreads are all nearly identical in the damage they take from physical and special attacks. The only real difference seems to be HP-based moves.
>Benefits of HP spreads: Take less % damage from fixed damage moves like Seismic Toss, Night Shade, Final Gambit, etc. HP spreads also do more damage by recoil moves (Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, etc). Better if your opponent uses Guard Split/Swap (lol).
>Benefits of Def/SpDef spreads: Heal more from Wish. Your opponent benefits less from HP-restoring moves like Pain Split, Leech Seed, Drain Punch, Giga Drain...
The analysis should say something about why you chose 252 HP instead of any other spread across defenses.
252/0/0/0/0/0
0/0/128/0/128/0
128/0/64/0/64/0
192/0/32/0/32/0
These EV spreads are all nearly identical in the damage they take from physical and special attacks. The only real difference seems to be HP-based moves.
>Benefits of HP spreads: Take less % damage from fixed damage moves like Seismic Toss, Night Shade, Final Gambit, etc. HP spreads also do more damage by recoil moves (Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, etc). Better if your opponent uses Guard Split/Swap (lol).
>Benefits of Def/SpDef spreads: Heal more from Wish. Your opponent benefits less from HP-restoring moves like Pain Split, Leech Seed, Drain Punch, Giga Drain...
The analysis should say something about why you chose 252 HP instead of any other spread across defenses.
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Misleading. Wish always heals 50% of the User's HP. Having Less HP on the receiver of wish means you heal more percentage of HP, however, if your wish heals more HP than you have, but less than what you could have with higher investment of HP, the remainder is wasted.
FWIW, In most cases it is better to have more HP investment because it allows you to take more damage before fainting. That being said, Extremely high HP mons like Blissey, Chansey, Snorlax, Wobbuffet, Wailord and so on would likely fare better with investment in defense or sp. defense over HP.
Chansey is the prime example of this because max IV and no EVs with a neutral nature is 46 Defense while 252 EVs in Defense more than doubles that to 109 defense - more than eviolite can boost on its own, while 641 HP becomes 704 HP which is a smaller portion of health.
46 defense is only ~42% of 109 defense. (69/163 with eviolite on both)
641 HP is ~91% of 704 HP.
58% specialized boost in survival before item is much better than a generic 9% boost.
Don't forget about Ditto. If Ditto is going to be omnipresent in the metagame, keeping defenses low rather than HP can be a pretty big deal. Especially if you're running something like a Curse set.
This is not quite accurate. The best way to describe bulk mathematically is by effective HP, which describes how much damage you can tank when factoring in defenses. Basically, 100 HP on a 50 Def mon is worth the same as 50 HP on a 100 Def mon (against physical attacks). For Pokemon's damage formula, effective_HP = HP * relevant_def. If your defenses are higher, you always gain more effective HP from a Wish (because all the HP you get has a higher value when it is behind bigger defense stats). You also alluded to the top-off edge effect (of having the wish you receive be capped), but even then Def-based spreads are better Wish recipients because they will never heal less % effective_HP back than an HP spread.
Copperajah is a special case because of his HP, Def, and SpDef values. The different defensive spreads I showed all have the same effective HP vs both physical and special attacks. Here are some calcs:
Versus Physical Attacks:
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 172-204 (38.3 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Copperajah: 145-172 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 128 HP / 64 Def Copperajah: 159-187 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 192 HP / 32 Def Copperajah: 165-195 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Versus Special Attacks:
252 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Copperajah: 230-272 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Copperajah: 194-230 (50.3 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 128 HP / 64 SpD Copperajah: 212-250 (50.8 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Hatterene Mystical Fire vs. 192 HP / 32 SpD Copperajah: 220-260 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's a 2% difference in the tanking ability of these Copperajah across the spectrum (slightly favoring Def/SpDef spreads). %HP is what really matters when it comes to how quickly your pokemon will faint. Eviolite never changes your optimal spread because it boosts both phys and special effective HP by 50% (regardless of spread). Whether you should spec into HP/defenses only depends on how your base HP compares with base defenses.
The exception are fixed HP-based moves (see below), where HP vs def spreads affect the heal/drain (by you or opponent) by 16%. For recoil moves, let's take 252 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz as an example.
=> vs. 0 HP / 128 Def Copperajah: 37.7 - 43.2% of Charizard's HP (100% survival after rocks)
=> vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 44.4 - 50.2% of Charizard's HP (25% chance to die after rocks)
I may be off a bit by 1 HP by recoil rounding, but my point stands: +16% recoil/drain/wish are all bigger effects than +2% bulk.
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Also, RBYer is right: Defense spreads are worse versus Ditto. So an updated list would be:
>Benefits of HP spreads: Take less % damage from fixed damage moves like Seismic Toss, Night Shade, Final Gambit, etc. Opponent takes more recoil from Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, etc... Better if your opponent uses Guard Split (lol). Better vs Ditto.
>Benefits of Def/SpDef spreads: Effectively heal more from Wish. Your opponent benefits less from HP-restoring moves like Pain Split, Leech Seed, Drain Punch, Giga Drain...
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tl;dr Defense investment becomes more valuable with higher base HP. Copperajah's stats are balanced so HP and def=spdef spreads give the same general tanking ability. Choose the spread based on fixed HP-based moves.
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Goodbye Stealth Spikes
Eh. Copperajah is still viable if you're willing to use Trick Room. It's a powerful attacker with great overage options. Plus, the Heavy Metal set works better now that Dynamax is banned.
I'm not sure there's that much that sets it apart from other tanky steels, though? It has some interesting movepool options in the likes of Heat Crash, but I'm struggling to come up with a real role for it now that G-max is gone.
What other tanky steel would you rather use under Trick Room? Copperajah hits like a truck with great coverage. In my initial testing with other Trick Room abusers, it outperformed most of them. You can either use Heavy Metal or Sheer Force based sets, which gives you some variety.
I thought Steelix with Body Press might be more interesting but the neutral damage from it wasn't high enough to justify it.
hey, do you recommend 0 spe in Life Orb and Choice Band moves? I have a 6iv copperajah but I would like to know if it is good or should breed one with 0 spe.
Copperajah
Base Stats: HP: 122 | Atk: 130 | Def: 69 | SpA: 80 | SpD: 69 | Spe: 30
Abilities: Sheer Force (1) | Sheer Force (2) | Heavy Metal (H)
Level Up Moves:
- [00] Heavy Slam- [01] Heavy Slam- [01] Tackle- [01] Growl- [01] Rollout- [01] Rock Smash- [15] Bulldoze- [20] Stomp- [25] Iron Defense- [30] Dig- [37] Strength- [44] Iron Head- [51] Play Rough- [58] High Horsepower- [65] Superpower
Egg Moves:
- Double-Edge- Belch- Curse- Slam- Fissure- Swagger- Whirlwind- Defense Curl
TMs:
- [TM01] Mega Kick- [TM08] Hyper Beam- [TM09] Giga Impact- [TM15] Dig- [TM16] Screech- [TM21] Rest- [TM22] Rock Slide- [TM24] Snore- [TM25] Protect- [TM26] Scary Face- [TM31] Attract- [TM39] Facade- [TM42] Revenge- [TM43] Brick Break- [TM48] Rock Tomb- [TM53] Mud Shot- [TM54] Rock Blast- [TM57] Payback- [TM59] Fling- [TM76] Round- [TM81] Bulldoze- [TM85] Snarl- [TM97] Brutal Swing- [TM98] Stomping Tantrum
TRs:
- [TR01] Body Slam- [TR10] Earthquake- [TR20] Substitute- [TR24] Outrage- [TR26] Endure- [TR27] Sleep Talk- [TR37] Taunt- [TR39] Superpower- [TR46] Iron Defense- [TR67] Earth Power- [TR69] Zen Headbutt- [TR70] Flash Cannon- [TR72] Power Whip- [TR74] Iron Head- [TR75] Stone Edge- [TR76] Stealth Rock- [TR79] Heavy Slam- [TR85] Work Up- [TR88] Heat Crash- [TR90] Play Rough- [TR94] High Horsepower- [TR99] Body Press
Notable Moves:
- Heavy Slam- Iron Head- Play Rough- High Horsepower- Superpower- Curse- Whirlwind- Rock Slide- Earthquake- Taunt- Power Whip- Stone Edge- Stealth Rock- Heat Crash- Body Press
Gigantamax:
G-Max Steelsurge:|
| BP: up to 130 (Phy) / up to 140 (Spe) | A Steel-type attack that Gigantamax Copperajah use. This move scatters sharp spikes around the field.
Analysis:
Copperjah definitely looks to shine through it's G-Max move (which sadly isn't on PS! yet). Apparently, one may believe this move sets up Spikes, but in actuality it's a Steel-type clone of Stealth Rock, which is HUGE. That alone could make Copperajah a massive threat on Dynamax meta. Steel isn't as good of an Offensive type, but it most notably hits Fairies and Tyranitar, and having them take 25% damage upon switch in would be extremely valuable for some team. It's currently unown wether these stack with normal Stealth Rock, so we'll have to wait to know. But Copperajah is NOT a one trick pony! It has great bulk, a very powerful base 130 Attack stat, and some extremely colorful coverage. That allows it to play two possible roles, one more offensive abusing the coverage of Heavy Slam and Heat Crash, as well as a more defensive approach as we all know Steel-type is glorious. This pokémon also really appreciates the scarcity of Ground-types as of now, no Landorus-T is definitely a godsend and should be enough to put it a notch above.
It will still have some trouble with Ground- and Fire-types however. Hippowdon really doesn't mind anything this guy may want to do, and Cinderace can switch into its STAB alright and court change Copperajah's hazards away, as well as threaten it with Pyro Ball. It also has abysmall speed, which is definitely not good in a metagame as offensive as this one. Trick Room could be a possibility, but nothing gives the impression that this playstyle is much more viable than last gen then it was last time.
Potential Movesets:
Copperajah @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
Standard Life Orb Attacker. You can probably go with something in place of EQ that takes advantage of Sheer Force, but its coverage is really important here. I could see this set having some trouble with other Steels though, mainly Ferrothorn and Corviknight, so Fire coverage can be used instead.
Copperajah @ Choice Band
Ability: Heavy Metal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Heat Crash
- Stone Edge
- Power Whip
I feel like Choice Band is also a great option. You can go with Heavy Metal here and deliver some really powerful Heavy Slams and Heat Crashes, with Stone Edge and Power Whip to cover Fire- and Water-types, respectively.
Copperajah @ Leftovers
Ability: Heavy Metal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Heat Crash
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
Your standard defensive set here. Heavy Slam and Heat Crash should hit decently hard even uninvested. Specially Defensive could also probably work great, I'd just suggest replacing Body Press. Heat Crash perhaps?
Obviously more sets are viable, as well as permutations / variations of these sets. But this is just a rough draft of the possible sets and I don't wanna flood this with some dumb shit.
Copperajah's IV and EV spread would be dependent on your team and the goal you are trying to accomplish with Copperajah. check the link below:
https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/copperajah/
Keep in mind this is with singles 6v6 battles in mind. Notably, the second set is with an Adamant nature, and 31 IVs are invested in Speed, and 44 EVs invested in Speed to outspeed Toxapex, one of the best walls in OU, and smack it hard with an Earthquake before it can use Scald. The goal of this Copperajah would be to set up stealth rocks and throw off huge attacks, but it is not very good at this role. The first set has a Brave nature with 0 Speed IVs, and this is used specifically for Trick Room teams, which are dedicated to using slow, hard-hitting 'mons against the opponent to "outspeed" opposing Pokemon and win that way. Hope this helps!
Thank you, but what happens if I have a Sheer Force ability instead of Heavy Metal? Which moves should I replace? Saw the link but it is only for heavy metal :(
You needn't replace any moves. Heavy Metal may make Heavy Slam and Heat Crash a bit more consistent, but Copperajah is super heavy as is, so it already hits 120 power (the maximum power for those moves) against most targets. If you really don't want Sheer Force to go to waste, you can maybe slap on Rock Slide to hit Rotom-Heat.
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