Project Counter That Pokemon! [Closed]

[Low-Key]

The definition of a counter (as opposed to a check) includes being able to manually switch into the Pokemon in question, so this is unfortunately not a counter.

kk i'll post a different one soon
edit: seismitoad has gotten around so why not post a seismitoad of my own?
Seismitoad @ Assault Vest
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Drain Punch
This Seismitoad easily counters Paleo Wave, as done from Stratagem, and resists rock. Seismitoad is actually a great counter to one of these Stratagem sets as if opposed to. Stratagem, at best, only can 5HKO or 4HKO.
Knock Off allows to manually remove Life Orb, so it can't do 5HKOs or 4HKOs at best. Once you remove the Life Orb with Knock Off, Fire Blast is a 7HKO and Paleo wave is a 6HKO.
Hyper Voice? IDK, but I thought it as a manual HP remover.
Power Whip and Drain Punch can shatter Stratagem, even though it's not going to be faster. It provides OHKOs and 2HKOs in general.
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Seismitoad: 62-74 (17.6 - 21%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Seismitoad: 91-108 (25.9 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Paleo Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Seismitoad: 71-86 (20.2 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252+ Atk Seismitoad Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Stratagem: 328-388 (101.8 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Seismitoad Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Stratagem: 206-244 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(i hope this is now a counter and viable)

 

[theotherguytm]

Well, yes it is a counter... But Toad is meant to be a bulky Rock setter that uses Water Absorb to check Dracovish (which is now banned) and its typing to check Rotom-H. Your set also lacks a STAB (ie: Scald and/or Earth Power)... So no, not viable. (I am also confused as to why an Assault Vest mon has no bulk.) Try reading this:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-cap-set-compendium.3662633/
But in the interest of celebrating our new CAP:
Astrolotl @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Lash
- Wish
- Toxic
252 Atk Astrolotl Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Seismitoad: 162-192 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Seismitoad Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Astrolotl: 119-141 (33.3 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Seismitoad Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Astrolotl: 92-109 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
A much slower Astro set that actually focusses on its concept (rofl).

 

[Low-Key]

Well, yes it is a counter... But Toad is meant to be a bulky Rock setter that uses Water Absorb to check Dracovish (which is now banned) and its typing to check Rotom-H. Your set also lacks a STAB (ie: Scald and/or Earth Power)... So no, not viable.

Should I delete the post, since it counts as not viable? Or should I change the set up?

 

[theotherguytm]

Should I delete the post, since it counts as not viable? Or should I change the set up?

Leave it as is, as I have countered the set in the interest of celebrating our new CAP (I will be abusing this thing's dummy thicc movepool as much as possible in this thread from now on). But try to stick to viable sets from now on.

 

[Low-Key]

Alright, then. Someone else can make a set because this one is a hard choice.

 

[Pokemon guy]

Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
Impish Nature
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Atk / 248 Def
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind

252 Atk Astrolotl Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 75-88 (17.8 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Astrolotl Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 75-88 (17.8 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock

8 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Astrolotl: 306-360 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Astrolotl dies way before toxic damage becomes a factor

 

[JayHeaven]

Equilibra @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 132 SpA / 84 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Doom Desire

Hippowdon literally can't touch Equilibra and Equilibra can spin the rocks away. Hippo also can't outstall because doom desire will always leave hippo too low for it to live next earth power.

132+ SpA Equilibra Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 198-234 (47.1 - 55.7%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO
132+ SpA Equilibra Doom Desire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 307-363 (73 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[theotherguytm]

Meme

Equilibra @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 132 SpA / 84 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Doom Desire
- Rapid Spin
For the uneducated:
EP Levitate < AS Levitate < AS Bulletproof < EP Bulletproof < EP Levitate

Actual submission:
Astrolotl @ Air Balloon
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Dragon Tail
- Thunder Wave
252+ Atk Astrolotl Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Equilibra: 374-444 (91.6 - 108.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Astro is faster even after a Spin and Equil obviously does nothing if Air Balloon is intact.
@ Everyone who wanted Levitate.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

252+ Atk Astrolotl Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Equilibra: 374-444 (91.6 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

I'm not sold on this being yum. Although technically a "yum", it's still a coin flip, as well as being reliant on not switching into Rocks and a predicted Earth Power, it's a tough call to say that it's an out and out counter to Equilibra.

ALWAYS calc with Rocks up.

It's a yuck from me, sorry.

 

[theotherguytm]

252+ Atk Astrolotl Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Equilibra: 374-444 (91.6 - 108.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

I'm not sold on this being yum. Although technically a "yum", it's still a coin flip, as well as being reliant on not switching into Rocks and a predicted Earth Power, it's a tough call to say that it's an out and out counter to Equilibra.



It's a yuck from me, sorry.

Rocks don't pop Air Balloon.

 

[Low-Key]

Rocks don't pop Air Balloon.

Agreed, here is proof:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1133626013
Stealth rock does damage before Air Balloon gets set up. Men Digu was also me, I was testing on another account.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

Welp, egg on face

 

[MrPanda]

252+ Atk Astrolotl Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Equilibra: 374-444 (91.6 - 108.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Well, 69% win is really close.

Primarina @ Leftovers
Calm Nature
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 Spe
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Moonblast

252+ Atk Astrolotl Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 136 Def Primarina: 102-120 (28 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Astrolotl Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136 Def Primarina: 55-65 (15.1 - 17.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Astrolotl: 178-211 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO

Knock Off doesn't do anything to Prim, and after Flare Blitz recoil Moonblast 2HKOes Astro. That way, Astro relies on Prim being full para two times to win, which isn't a reliable wincon.

 

[SunMYSER]

Plasmanta @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere

The GOAT Plasmanta likes to eat bulky water types. Assuming a CM gets set up on the switch (and doesn't get a +1 from a Scald):

252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Bomb vs. +1 248 HP / 0+ SpD Primarina: 205-244 (56.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 95-112 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

If Primarina sets Subs on the switch:

0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 63-75 (24 - 28.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0+ SpD Primarina: 307-367 (84.5 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

I swear guys, Plasmanta is good.

 

[MrPanda]

Plasmanta @ Life Orb
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Aura Sphere

The GOAT Plasmanta likes to eat bulky water types. Assuming a CM gets set up on the switch (and doesn't get a +1 from a Scald):

252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Thunderbolt vs. +1 248 HP / 0+ SpD Primarina: 205-244 (56.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 95-112 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

If Primarina sets Subs on the switch:

0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 63-75 (24 - 28.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0+ SpD Primarina: 307-367 (84.5 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

I swear guys, Plasmanta is good.

Plasmanta surely checks Primarina, but you shouldn't use Thunderbolt on calcs if it isn't in the moveset.

 

[SunMYSER]

Plasmanta surely checks Primarina, but you shouldn't use Thunderbolt on calcs if it isn't in the moveset.

I knew i forgot something. Edited into Sludge Bomb (same BP+Poison Chance). Thanks!!

 

[theotherguytm]

252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Discharge vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 75-90 (20.6 - 24.7%) -- 7.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 51-60 (14 - 16.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam
0 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Plasmanta: 83-98 (31.6 - 37.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Guess who's back.

 

[Zephyri]

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam

Smokomodo @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bulldoze
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun

252 Atk Choice Band Smokomodo Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Magearna: 476-564 (131.1 - 155.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Smokomodo Bulldoze vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Magearna: 356-422 (98 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Smokomodo: 99-117 (31.2 - 36.9%) -- 86.2% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Magearna Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Smokomodo: 66-78 (20.8 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

 

[sun_dew]

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Nasty Plot
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Smokomodo: 832-984 (262.4 - 310.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Smokomodo Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Rotom-Wash: 102-120 (42.3 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Low-Key]

Smokomodo @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bulldoze
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun

Why did you put Morning Sun on a Choice Banded Smokomodo? It's a status move.

 

[theotherguytm]

Why did you put Morning Sun on a Choice Banded Smokomodo? It's a status move.

The idea I think is to heal on a forced switch. The set as a whole is goofy though (smoko runs Blaze).

 

[Low-Key]

The idea I think is to heal on a forced switch. The set as a whole is goofy though (smoko runs Blaze).

I agree on your point. The Balance Breaker set runs Blaze, and so does the set from the set compendium.

 

[Pokemon guy]

Necturna @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
Ability: Forewarn
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- V-create
- Power Whip
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak

252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necturna: 72-86 (26.7 - 31.9%) -- 57.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Discharge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necturna: 53-63 (19.7 - 23.4%) -- 19.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock

for NP on the switch

+2 252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necturna: 144-171 (53.5 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Necturna Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Rotom-Wash: 458-542 (190 - 224.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[meamdefinitely4]

I have the counter.

This thing can absolutely destroy Necturna.
Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
My calculations:
252+ Atk Choice Band Necturna V-create vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Torkoal: 95-112 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Necturna Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Torkoal: 95-112 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Necturna Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Torkoal: 64-76 (22.7 - 27%) -- 38.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Necturna Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Torkoal: 111-132 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
on the other hand:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Torkoal Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Necturna: 378-446 (140.5 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[MrPanda]

Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: White Smoke
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb

What's the point in using Solar Beam without Drought? Dynamax is banned from CAP, so do you really want be stuck in an one charging turn attack?