Counter This Pokemon [OLD VERSION]

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Nature: Intimidate
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Tail


+X Dragon Tail vs. 244/0 Toxicroak:
+0 - 20.1 - 23.91%
+1 - 30.43 - 35.86%
+2 - 40.21 - 47.55%
+3 - 50.54 - 59.51%


X vs. 248/252 Gyarados:
Focus Punch: 27.22 - 32.06%
Sucker Punch: 19.59 - 23.15%
Ice Punch: 18.32 - 21.37%


Gyarados is an extremely reliable counter to Toxicroak. With maximum invested HP and Defense, the best move Toxicroak can use against it -Focus Punch- isn't even able to 3HKO. This gives Gyarados all the time it wants to set up with Dragon Dance. After the very first one, Gyarados already packs enough power to break Toxicroaks Substitute. With Sleep Talk ignoring the negative priority of Dragon Tail, Toxicroak is not able to even keep subbing on this set.
 

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Nature: Intimidate
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Tail


+X Dragon Tail vs. 244/0 Toxicroak:
+0 - 20.1 - 23.91%
+1 - 30.43 - 35.86%
+2 - 40.21 - 47.55%
+3 - 50.54 - 59.51%


X vs. 248/252 Gyarados:
Focus Punch: 27.22 - 32.06%
Sucker Punch: 19.59 - 23.15%
Ice Punch: 18.32 - 21.37%


Gyarados is an extremely reliable counter to Toxicroak. With maximum invested HP and Defense, the best move Toxicroak can use against it -Focus Punch- isn't even able to 3HKO. This gives Gyarados all the time it wants to set up with Dragon Dance. After the very first one, Gyarados already packs enough power to break Toxicroaks Substitute. With Sleep Talk ignoring the negative priority of Dragon Tail, Toxicroak is not able to even keep subbing on this set.
A bulky Gyarados may seam like a nice counter to Croak cuz of its typing, bulk and intimidate (which does dont work if Croak is behind a sub if I'm not mistaken) but I have to tell NOT with this set...
Gyara is SR weak, lacks a good recovery move (rest+s.talk isnt that great) picking dragon tail out of 3 move... if you dont get it Croak is again behind a sub and ready to punch your face... also Croak recovers its health damn fast in rain. A +0 D.Tail wont even break the sub which is even worse... this Gyarados is also screwed when facing a bulk up set behind a sub... making it even more worse... I think you get my point...this gyarados cant really touch Croak behind a sub in rain.
 

Pocket

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Yea, and no STAB Waterfall is just silly.

Waterfall, Earthquake, Taunt, Dragon Tail with the same spread would counter Toxicroak and be more useful overall.
 
Yea, and no STAB Waterfall is just silly.

Waterfall, Earthquake, Taunt, Dragon Tail with the same spread would counter Toxicroak and be more useful overall.
I aggree, fallowing thing again to the gyara set listed above:

Gyara switches in - SR Dmg + Croak FP - Gyara DD - Croak FP - Gyara DT "Croaks Sub's breaks" - Croak FB // - Gyar "tries" to attack - Croak SP 4 the kill... OR // - Gyara Rest - Croak FP (so many FP's... crits maybe start to happen); or Sub and the fun begins again... :X
 

Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA
Nature: Bold
-Taunt
-Thunder Wave
-Recover
-Psychic/Night Shade

Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs Deoxys-D
342 Atk vs 460 Def & 304 HP (80 Base Power): 86 - 102 (28.29% - 33.55%)

Toxicroak Focus punch vs Deoxys-D
342 Atk vs 460 Def & 304 HP (150 Base Power): 60 - 71 (19.74% - 23.36%)

Toxicroak Ice Punch vs Deoxys-D
342 Atk vs 460 Def & 304 HP (75 Base Power): 40 - 48 (13.16% - 15.79%)

Deoxys-D Psychic vs Toxicroak
177 Atk vs 166 Def & 367 HP (90 Base Power): 412 - 492 (112.26% - 134.06%)

So Deoxys-D isn't even 3HKOed by Toxicroak's strongest attack and breaks its sub with Psychic and goes for the KO. However, Psychic is pretty terrible on Deoxys-D otherwise because of how weak it is, so if one decided to use Night Shade for more consistent damage against everything else they would still be able to paralyze Toxicroak and then cycle through Taunt, Recover, and Night Shade. It'll take a long time with dry skin+leftovers healing Toxicroak each turn, but I'm pretty sure Deoxys-D wins this one due to fully paralyzed turns that will let it use Night Shade twice in a row. It also won't help Toxicroak that Sucker Punch only has 4 PP due to Pressure. Most likely if you're using Night Shade the opponent will just get annoyed and switch out though, giving you another shot to spam Twave.

Oh, and also


Mew @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def/ 32 Spe
Nature: Bold
-Taunt
-Will-O-Wisp
-Softboiled
-Psychic

Does the exact same thing as Deoxys-D with only a little less bulk and Will-O-Wisp>Twave
 

WaterBomb

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Let's try this one:


Dusclops @ Eviolite
Pressure
Bold Nature
252 HP/216 Def/40 SpD
-Seismic Toss
-Will o Wisp
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

This set easily stalls out Sucker Punch, which only nets a 4HKO after Stealth Rock. Dusclops can then just spam Seismic Toss until croak is dead, Resting when needed. Barring several crits in a row, Toxicroak can't beat it.
 


gimmicky, albeit less so than most other 'counters' posted, but adamant cb mamo does minimum 25.5% per hit with icicle spear to that toxicroak, and is 3hko'd by LO sucker punch even after rocks

it's presumable that they'd sub on the switch, then depending on how meta your opponent is there's a good chance they'd go for the focus punch, losing a turn and taking some damage with a hilarious 12.5% chance of being ohko'd by a 5-hit icicle spear

if they're LO and go for that first focus punch, you win regardless of damage rolls/number of icicle spear hits. if they're LO and, being somehow onto your ridiculous tech, opt to sucker punch right off the bat, you need one of your two turns of icicle spear to hit more than twice, which is in your favour anyway. if theyre lefties you need a bit more luck with icicle spear but there's also a 50ish% chance that itll take 4 sucker punches to kill you after rocks so maybe its not even that bad

i know i know adamant mamo loses to jolly breloom but i just found the icicle spear numbers so cute that i had to make this post
 

ganj4lF

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Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Cursed Body / Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Immune to Focus Punch, takes nothing (10% max) from Ice Punch and 45.65% max from Sucker Punch. This means Jellicent can switch in while Toxicroak Substitutes, then Taunt it and break the Sub with Shadow Ball without any risk. Then it can proceed to cripple it with WoW, PP stall it or chip away with Shadow Ball while recovering the damage. With Cursed Body you have also a chance to disable Sucker Punch, but I guess Water Absorb is better in most cases. With Scald instead of Shadow Ball, as the analysis suggests, it's trickier but Toxicroak still can't do anything to Mr. Pringles.

Also, Ferrothorn is a damn good check if it switches into Ice Punch or Sucker Punch, since Toxicroak can't touch it while it spams Gyro Balls and goes for the 3HKO even factoring in Lefties and Dry Skin...
 

WaterBomb

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gimmicky, albeit less so than most other 'counters' posted, but adamant cb mamo does minimum 25.5% per hit with icicle spear to that toxicroak, and is 3hko'd by LO sucker punch even after rocks

it's presumable that they'd sub on the switch, then depending on how meta your opponent is there's a good chance they'd go for the focus punch, losing a turn and taking some damage with a hilarious 12.5% chance of being ohko'd by a 5-hit icicle spear

if they're LO and go for that first focus punch, you win regardless of damage rolls/number of icicle spear hits. if they're LO and, being somehow onto your ridiculous tech, opt to sucker punch right off the bat, you need one of your two turns of icicle spear to hit more than twice, which is in your favour anyway. if theyre lefties you need a bit more luck with icicle spear but there's also a 50ish% chance that itll take 4 sucker punches to kill you after rocks so maybe its not even that bad

i know i know adamant mamo loses to jolly breloom but i just found the icicle spear numbers so cute that i had to make this post
This all becomes kind of moot if they Focus Punch you into oblivion on the switch. Excellent check, but probably not a full counter.

Same with the above user's suggestion of Ferrothorn, who is owned by FP on the switch. I think in order to fully counter this croak the pokemon must be able to come in even if Toxicroak already has a sub up.
 
This all becomes kind of moot if they Focus Punch you into oblivion on the switch. Excellent check, but probably not a full counter.

Same with the above user's suggestion of Ferrothorn, who is owned by FP on the switch. I think in order to fully counter this croak the pokemon must be able to come in even if Toxicroak already has a sub up.
I aggree...it's counters should be able to: 1. Switch in even if Stealth Rocks are up 2. Take on alot of hits from Croak, three or even more hits also its counter should resist its attacks 3. Break its Sub's (allways, no matter what...) 4. A recovery move would be nice...

Just my opinion...

Btw... that Sableye Set posted earlier does look promissing to me (:




Sableye@Leftovers
Prankster
Careful Nature
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
~Will O Wisp
~Night Shade
~Taunt
~Recover

252Atk Toxicroak (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 252HP/0Def Sableye (+Def): 29% - 35% (90 - 107 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk Toxicroak (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 252HP/0Def Sableye (+Def): 31% - 37% (96 - 114 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.


Note that is Sableye runs Defense EV's as per the set I posted or a +Defense Nature it reduces damage taken further (couldn't figure out how to do it on the damage calculator).

Come in on anything, Nightshade the sub away. Taunt or Burn, Recover off the damage or Taunt/Burn the predicted switch.
 
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Def / 100 SAtk / 156 HP
Bold Nature

- Will-O-Wisp
- Psychic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk


None of Toxicroak's attacks can seriously damage a Physically Defensive Spiritomb, and it can hit back with Will o' Wisp, making it impossible for Toxicroak to KO, or with Psychic, and with the given SPatk Evs it's a clean OHKO.
Rest and sleep talk give Spiritomb a quite reliable form of recovery.

Now, some Calculations:

252 Atk Toxicroak (+Atk) Sucker Punch vs 156 HP/252 Def Spiritomb (+Def) : 20,36% - 24,29%
Entry hazards damage: 35
After entry hazards: 92 - 103 (32,86% - 36,79%)
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

252 Atk Toxicroak (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 156 HP/252 Def Spiritomb (+Def) : 19,29% - 22,86%
Entry hazards damage: 35
After entry hazards: 89 - 99 (31,79% - 35,36%)
5-7 hits to KO (with Leftovers)


100 SpAtk Spiritomb Psychic vs 244 HP/0 SpDef Toxicroak: 104,35% - 122,83%
Guaranteed OHKO
There are a few things wrong with this set, the most obvious one being having a unSTAB'd move as the only attacking move on this set just for Toxicroak. And you can't Will-o-Wisp Toxicroak if it is behind a substitute.

No overspecialized counters, as stated in the OP.

While I'm at it, I might as well post a counter to Toxicroak


Cofagrigus (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]


CM up as he does nothing really. Sucker Punch (which won't happen as it won't activate when you CM) has a chance of a 3HKO after SR and Leftovers (92-110) which is 14.28%. Ice Punch will be a possible 8HKO after SR and Leftovers (44-52) and Focus Punch does nothing. On top of that, you remove it's ability so it can't make subs easily anymore. Unorthodox, I know, but it works. Also sets up on random CB Fighting moves and Scizor.
 

WaterBomb

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Standard support Uxie does the trick here



Uxie @ Leftovers
Levitate
Bold Nature
-U-turn
-Stealth Rock
-Psychic
-Thunder Wave

Psychic is a clean OHKO, so even if it comes in on a full HP croak with Sub up it can dispose of it in two turns, while Sucker Punch only does 28.81 - 33.89% (5.54% chance of 3HKO after rocks). Plus, the most damage Uxie can take on the switch-in would be a 23.44% from Focus Punch since SP would fail on the switch. Uxie takes care of Toxicroak with ease.

EDIT: Noticed that Cresselia actually does an even better job, taking 5% less damage per hit from SP with max Defensive bulk, and still scores the OHKO with Psychic.
 
nixhex asked me to do this

Interesting stuff everyone! Seems Toxicroak is going to have a lot of difficulty with Pokemon that aren't weak to Focus Punch but don't necessarily have to use an attack to cripple (ie. Deoxys-D, Mew, etc.)

Our next Pokemon has become a favorite in the BW2 metagame due to the increased prevalence of rain. It gives trouble to stall and balanced teams alike, but sheer power isn't the thing that will pull your hair out when facing this Pokemon! It is SubCm Jirachi!

Weather: Rain
Jirachi @ Leftovers

Nature: Timid
Ability: Serene Grace
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Thunder
- Water Pulse

With the ability to create 101 HP Substitues and a handy Steel typing, Jirachi can find the time to set up a Substitute against a variety of targets. However, in the rain Jirachi has access to a reliable Thunder, which makes it quite a challenge to counter due to its annoying 60% rate. A chance that many offensive Pokemon that can break its Substitute don't want to take. This is compounded further by its access to a boosted Water Pulse that forms the Parafusion combo to immobilize targets. When trying to counter it, be wary of Jirachi's ability not only to sweep but to completely immobilize you!
 

Sayonara

don't forget

Latias @ Leftovers | Levitate
Timid
| 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Calm Mind
~ Roar
~ Recover
~ Dragon Pulse

Latias resists Thunder and Water Pulse, two non-STAB moves from Jirachi. If it has boosts, Latias can get rid of them, as well as Substitute, by utilizing Roar. Recover keeps Latias in good shape, and Calm Mind is a set-up move that lets her tank hits and hit hard. Dragon Pulse is her sole attacking move.
 

Ferrothorn@Leftovers
Careful Nature, 252 HP/204 Att/52 SpD
Leech Seed
Bulldoze
Power Whip
Spikes/Stealth Rock

Most Ferrothorn are setup bait for Jirachi, but by investing in Attack and carrying Bulldoze Ferrothorn can muscle his way past the common Calm Mind set. The Attack EVs ensure that Ferrothorn can break Jiraci's substitutes, meaning she won't have time to set up multiple boosts. In turn, Ferrothorn takes little from Thunder and Water Pulse, even at +1. After Jirachi has been dealt with, he can easily recover health back with Leech Seed (a move which also lets him play some mind games with Jirachi and Substitute)

This set isn't only good for beating Jirachi, though. Even without much investment, Ferrothorn has still incredible bulk and can find multiple opportunities to set up hazards or Leech Seed opponents. If you predict well, it can even beat pokemon who normally hard counter him, such as Heatran and Magnezone. Bulldoze also has utility outside of hitting Steels, since the Speed reduction makes revenge killing threats much easier.
 

Gastrodon @ Leftovers | Storm Drain
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Nature | Sassy
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Beam
~ Toxic
~ Recover

Immune to both Water Pulse & Thunder, there's nothing Jirachi can do about it except switching out.
 

alphatron

Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Ninetales @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 hp/40 sp. Atk/216 spd
Ability: Drought
Nature: timid
-Overheat
-Power Swap
-Pain Split
-will-o-wisp
Copy pasting the set I used to counter Therian thundurus a while back. The only difference is that I have leftovers instead of charcoal for fringe kos. This is pretty self explanatory but ninetales laughs at Jirachi by turning thunder into a 50% accurate attack and by turning water pulse into a complete non factor. Pain split is blocked by substitute but you hardly need it for Jirachi. Just steal it's boosts as you smack it with overheat.
 

NixHex

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Gastrodon @ Leftovers | Storm Drain
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Nature | Sassy
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Beam
~ Toxic
~ Recover

Immune to both Water Pulse & Thunder, there's nothing Jirachi can do about it except switching out.
Doesn't get much better than this, though I'd rather go with Earth Power, especially since you may be lucky enough to switch into Water Pulse and get the boost.
 

forestflamerunner

Ain't no rest for the wicked


Jeyne (Celebi) @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 176 Spd / 232 HP / 84 SAtk / 16 Def
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

This is what i personally use to deal with all CM Jirachis. The 1766 speed EV's are to outspeed timid max speed heatran, while the Special Attack investment ensures that you can OHKO all Heatran after rocks and can also break a +2 252/0 CM Jirachi's subs 100% of the time. the remaining EV's were used to max out Celebi's bulk so that it can tank most attacks with the obvious exception of U-Turn. Giga Drain is there for STAB and to provide more staying power than Leaf Storm, which is better on hit and run sets. Hidden Power fire is there to hit Scizor and Ferrothorn hard, while Earth Power is a reliable way to deal with Heatran, Jirachi, and other grounded steel types. Jirachi, at +2, fails to 4HKO this Celebi with Water Pulse or Thunder, and the 3HKO isn't guaranteed even with Flash Cannon.
 

Latias @ Leftovers | Levitate
Timid
| 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Calm Mind
~ Roar
~ Recover
~ Dragon Pulse

Latias resists Thunder and Water Pulse, two non-STAB moves from Jirachi. If it has boosts, Latias can get rid of them, as well as Substitute, by utilizing Roar. Recover keeps Latias in good shape, and Calm Mind is a set-up move that lets her tank hits and hit hard. Dragon Pulse is her sole attacking move.
I would not consider any variant of Calm Mind Latias a counter. Unfortunately for Latias it is servely crippled by Thunder's paralysis, meaning you won't have any ability to sweep if you do accure Calm Mind boosts. It is more of a winning situation for Jirachi than Latias. This isn't even considering does not have any capacity to do damage to Jirachi, all it can do is phaze it out. If it were an endgame situation where Jirachi is the last mon, Jirachi would win for being able to parafusoin you.

Doesn't get much better than this, though I'd rather go with Earth Power, especially since you may be lucky enough to switch into Water Pulse and get the boost.
Oh but it does!

Frogger (Seismitoad) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rest
- Stealth Rock

As Katakiri pointed out here Seismitoad is a nifty alternative to Gastrodon. It can be used on teams, such as mine, that need the slot for Stealth Rock but need the walling capabilities of Gastrodon! Seismitoad also has physical bulk which means it check different things that Gastrodon can like Tyranitar.

I consider it better than Gastrodon because it can set up Stealth Rock as opposed to just sitting there waiting for something to force it out like Gastrodon. Seismitoad is also cool for being able to set up Stealth Rock in Rapid Spinning Starmies face!
 

Abomasnow @ Choice Band | Snow warning
252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Spe
Nature | Adamant
~ Earthquake
~ Avalanche
~ Wood Hammer
~ Ice Shard

Jirachi +1 Thunder vs Abomasnow
355 Atk vs 206 Def & 384 HP (120 Base Power): 74 - 87 (19.27% - 22.66%)
4HKO after stealth rock, and considering its accuracy will be cut by hail to 70% its laughable at best barring extreme para and crit hax. Water pulse obviously isn't doing jack to Abomasnow.

Abomasnow CB EQ vs Jirachi
466 Atk vs 236 Def & 404 HP (100 Base Power): 282 - 334 (69.80% - 82.67%)
Guaranteed 2HKO if it went straight for the calm mind without setting up sub and 92% of chance of a OHKO after you break its sub if its switched into stealth rock once (remember hail is canceling its leftovers)

problem is no sane person is ever switching Abomasnow into Jirachi unless they are absolutely sure Thunder and Water Pulse are its only attacks, but w/e I guess, it works.
 


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Roar

First off, I fully admit this is not a hard counter as it can't win one on one. So its probably a check under the stiff counter ruleset. But if this is a check, its dam well the best check that exists for this. Basically, the idea is this, if it subs, roar the sucker out, it just lost 25% for nothing, if it calm minds to much, roar it out (don't let it get past +2 generally). The key to victory is the lack of this Jirachi's recovery, which leaves it very weak to passive damage over the course of the battle. Not even to rocks and spikes but just Zapdos's thunderbolts.

This this requires rain support to be used also, meaning the team will probably lack a spin blocker as Gengar doesn't work to great in the rain and Jellicent in the rain + politoed + maybe Tentacruel leaves you with a huge ass water weakness. Basically, you will be able to spin, making Zapdos's job a lot easier. There is also the note of pressure which leaves Jirachi with a mere 4 thunder PP and 20 water pulse PP, water pulse is stupidly weak anyway. Which means even if it does break through maybe, its probably going to be out of thunder PP thus, useless.

I know its not the best pokemon for the job, but honestly Ive yet to lose to a single rain CM Jirachi since I started running this, heck its never even been close, even when rocks are up still, and Zapdos has seen his fair share of the things since they are everywhere. Again not a solid counter, but realistically, it works fine. Don't believe me, test it yourself, you will not be disappointed.

Calcs for your enjoyment:
Jirachi's thunder
+0 19.32 - 22.97%
+1 29.24 - 34.46%
+2 38.64 - 45.95%

+0 30.69 - 36.38%
+1 20.79 - 24.5%
+2 You should be roaring right about now
 


Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Roar
There are two problems I can see: first off, Thunder has 16 PP, not 8. That's not a huge deal on its own, but it could be problematic when you figure Serene Grace into the equation since it gives Jirachi 8 chances to paralyze you. Eventually, Jirachi is going to get that paralysis, and probably confusion too. When Zapdos is taking about 30% damage from Jirachi's Thunder, he can't really afford to miss a Roost due to confusion or full paralysis. In addition, Jirachi isn't really threatened by Zapdos in rain, so if she gets Roared out it's not a big deal for her. I can see this working with team support (mainly Spikes), but it's still pretty borderline to me. Do you run lots of hazards on your team?
 
Oh, I like using this Jirachi. One way to get around it though is to use Specially Defensive Tyranitar:





Tyranitar @Leftovers
Sandstream
Careful - 252HP/ 4Atk/ 252 Sp. Def
-Stealth Rock
-Crunch
-Pursuit
-Superpower

Jirachi's Water Pulse in Sandstorm at:
+0 = 10.9-12.9%
+1 = 15.8-18.8%
+2 = 20.8-24.8%
+3 = 25.7-30.7%

Meanwhile, Tyranitar's Crunch does: 27.2-32.7%, always breaking Jirachi's Substitute.

So. Specially Defensive Tyranitar can basically come into battle as Jirachi Subs (or whatever) and proceed to either break the Sub or just generally Crunch away. Water Pulse is Jirachi's best attack against Tyranitar (Thunder's accuracy is only 70% in sand, though they're the same Base power factoring in Water Pulse's Super effective-ness), but even at +2, it fails to even do 25%.

The only caution I add to this post is that it's possible Jirachi may win with some pretty serious confusion hax, but aside from that, it's a pretty solid counter.
 
There are two problems I can see: first off, Thunder has 16 PP, not 8
It has 8 pp due to Pressure but yeah Wynaunt is doubling the effect of pressure o.O. However everything you said is true. Zapdos needs to be spot on with its Roosts and Roars to consistently counter to Jirachi. Unlike Latias Zapdos isn't really dying to retain its speed, but the paralysis and confusion rate is very annoying. However, one thing Zapdos has over many of the other counters listed (besides Ferrothorn) is to do big damage on the stuff found on rain teams with a sexy STAB Thunderbolt, including Tonadus-T! Its a counter, but a subpar one at best and needs to utilize Spikes support like you said in order to be truely threatening to Jirachi.
 
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