Counter This Pokemon [OLD VERSION]

[Electrolyte]

Conkeldurr (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up / Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Payback

Conkeldurr with it's great natural bulk can take any hit from Landorus, even when boosted by Life Orb and Sand Force while being able to retaliate with an Ice Punch that is guaranteed to OHKO.

Conkeldurr Calcs

252 Atk Conkeldurr (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 0 HP/4 Def Landorus: 129.15% - 152.98%
Guaranteed OHKO

Landorus Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Sand Force Landorus Earthquake vs 120 HP/136 Def Conkeldurr: 64.04% - 75.59%
2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Detailed Result:
252 Atk Life Orb Sand Force Landorus Stone Edge vs 120 HP/136 Def Conkeldurr: 21.26% - 25.2%
5-7 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Detailed Result:
0 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Hidden Power Ice vs 120 HP/0 SpDef Conkeldurr: 27.82% - 32.55%
4-5 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

Wait a minute. Conkeldurr is 2HKO'd by EQ, as your calculations say. Conk is slower than Landorus-I so it can't come in and survive 2 EQ's, unless you come in on a SE, then your chances are much higher. A revenge killer at best. Am I forgetting something?

 

[WaterBomb]

At this point, I'm pretty sure a mon has to either 1) have intimidate or 2) resist Earthquake to even have a chance at countering Landorus-I. Under Gravity, and with Sand Force boosting damage, EQ bulldozes through even the sturdiest walls like Forretress and Ferrothorn.

Further, since the only types that resist EQ in gravity are Bug and Grass, they are covered by SE and HP Ice. To me, the only way you're reliably avoiding 2HKOs is with VERY physically bulky Grass types that still have enough SpDef to avoid the 2HKO from HP Ice (since Bug types won't work because the only one resisting EQ and neutral to SE is lol Heracross).

The only other way to counter is with pokes that are faster than Landorus, can OHKO reliably, and can avoid the OHKO from any of Landy's moves after rocks and weather. This is still an incredibly small list, as it's difficult to find a pokemon with the combination of high speed and defenses that still has enough firepower to OHKO Landorus. Outside of gimmicks like scarfed defensive Suicune (lol) you're not going to find anything that has high enough stats in all of the areas it needs to succeed.

Then again, there's always Whimsicott...

 

[ganj4lF]

Then again, there's always Whimsicott...

...which is 2HKOed as well regardless of the spread, and the best thing it can hope to do is to encore something or paralyze Landorus and take it down with another poke. Far from a counter, in my opinion...

Editing: maybe with a very odd variant with 252 HP / 122 SpA / 136 Spe Timid and HP Ice, it's not Koed by anything, outspeeds and have something like 68% chance to KO after LO recoil, but noone is going to run that only to counter Landorus...

 

[alkinesthetase]

At this point, I'm pretty sure a mon has to either 1) have intimidate or 2) resist Earthquake to even have a chance at countering Landorus-I. Under Gravity, and with Sand Force boosting damage, EQ bulldozes through even the sturdiest walls like Forretress and Ferrothorn.

Further, since the only types that resist EQ in gravity are Bug and Grass, they are covered by SE and HP Ice. To me, the only way you're reliably avoiding 2HKOs is with VERY physically bulky Grass types that still have enough SpDef to avoid the 2HKO from HP Ice (since Bug types won't work because the only one resisting EQ and neutral to SE is lol Heracross).

The only other way to counter is with pokes that are faster than Landorus, can OHKO reliably, and can avoid the OHKO from any of Landy's moves after rocks and weather. This is still an incredibly small list, as it's difficult to find a pokemon with the combination of high speed and defenses that still has enough firepower to OHKO Landorus. Outside of gimmicks like scarfed defensive Suicune (lol) you're not going to find anything that has high enough stats in all of the areas it needs to succeed.

Then again, there's always Whimsicott...

that basically screams virizion lol, someone already did it though. viriz doesn't have much physical bulk but its typing is one of the few that naturally resists edgequake without the help of an ability, which makes it particularly well suited to this situation. sadly, most variants of viriz are uninvested in defense. 252 HP virizion takes 45-54% from landorus eq, 90% 2HKO without sr and 100% 2HKO with sr, assuming viriz isn't negating sand damage with lefties. you'd need to be a physically defensive virizion to stand a chance - hardly a common set, although i could see it happening? =P however, viriz outspeeds, and 252spa viriz scores a narrow ohko on naive lando-I with hp ice. so you can either be an offensive variant, eat up to 64% from the first eq and outspeed for the kill with hp ice, or you can be a physically bulky viriz (252/252+ viriz takes at worst a 3HKO from HP ice after sr and sand damage, and it takes less from eq or edge), switch in on the first HP ice, and then outspeed for a 2hko with your 0spa hp ice (min 78%).

among intimidate mons, i think scrafty, as you brought up, is already the best choice, since it's not weak to any of landorus's moves and has great natural bulk.

salamence: gets blown away by hp ice with or without intimidate

gyara: can actually do an okay job - it's weak to stone edge but it's bulky. sadly it takes min 51% from the life orbed sand-backed stone edge, and sand is negating its lefties so it still gets 2hkod. it can 2hko landorus with waterfall if it gets that many turns though?

hitmontop: has a better chance of surviving two hits than gyara, with 11% chance to be 2hko'd by eq without sr, and over 2/3 chance to be 2hko'd with sr. but bulky hitmontop is not about to do anything whatsoever to landorus - close combat is a 5hko, have fun.

 

[Electrolyte]

At this point, I'm pretty sure a mon has to either 1) have intimidate or 2) resist Earthquake to even have a chance at countering Landorus-I. Under Gravity, and with Sand Force boosting damage, EQ bulldozes through even the sturdiest walls like Forretress and Ferrothorn.

Further, since the only types that resist EQ in gravity are Bug and Grass, they are covered by SE and HP Ice. To me, the only way you're reliably avoiding 2HKOs is with VERY physically bulky Grass types that still have enough SpDef to avoid the 2HKO from HP Ice (since Bug types won't work because the only one resisting EQ and neutral to SE is lol Heracross).

The only other way to counter is with pokes that are faster than Landorus, can OHKO reliably, and can avoid the OHKO from any of Landy's moves after rocks and weather. This is still an incredibly small list, as it's difficult to find a pokemon with the combination of high speed and defenses that still has enough firepower to OHKO Landorus. Outside of gimmicks like scarfed defensive Suicune (lol) you're not going to find anything that has high enough stats in all of the areas it needs to succeed.

Then again, there's always Whimsicott...

Well, at least this isn't like Haxorus, where you nearly always have to sack a pokemon once it gets to +2 and revenge it later.
Also remember that we're kind of assuming things here; we've all said that Gravity had already taken place once we've sent our poke in- which, is a very good thing to assume, as it's better safe than sorry- but in real battles it is very rare for Landy to pull off a Gravity without a scratch. Most of the pokemon here are great counters because Landy has to sacrifice a turn to set up Gravity- so most of the time our counter can get in scotch free. Then it turns from 'survive 2 hits and KO' to 'survive 1 hit and KO'. I assure you, the list for the latter is much larger. We're just playing it safe here by narrowing down our search to cover both requirements- just in case.

 

[WaterBomb]

Scarf Intimidate Gyarados can actually do the job with a very precise EV spread, but it still leaves him locked into Ice Fang and unable to switch into Rocks again, which makes him no more than a suicide counter to Landorus. Gyarados needs a spread of 64 HP/184 Att/252 Def/12 Spd in order to survive Stone Edge after rocks and weather, outspeed Landorus with a scarf, and guarantee OHKO with Ice Fang (assuming 1 turn of Life Orb damage). Man, even Intimidate mons have a hard time. Can Tauros or Stoutland do it?

 

[Electrolyte]

Scarf Intimidate Gyarados can actually do the job with a very precise EV spread, but it still leaves him locked into Ice Fang and unable to switch into Rocks again, which makes him no more than a suicide counter to Landorus. Gyarados needs a spread of 64 HP/184 Att/252 Def/12 Spd in order to survive Stone Edge after rocks and weather, outspeed Landorus with a scarf, and guarantee OHKO with Ice Fang (assuming 1 turn of Life Orb damage). Man, even Intimidate mons have a hard time. Can Tauros or Stoutland do it?

Stoutland could work, but it's very risky. However, Sand Rush works better than Intimidate. (is it OK for me to post two sets?)

Stoutland @ Choice Band
252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Sp Atk)
~Ice Fang
~Crunch
~Return
~Fire Fang

EQ in Sand- 79-94% (44% to OHKO after SR)
Ice fang- 133-156% to Landorus

It can outspeed Landorus, it just must be careful of EQ.

 

[WaterBomb]

Since it's already so fast with Sand Rush, perhaps a few Speed EVs can be invested in his bulk to lower that OHKO chance from EQ? I'll run some calcs and edit this in a moment

EDIT: Odd, my calcs told me 93.89 - 110.93% for EQ in sand, did you remember to include Sand Force and Life Orb? Anyway, with this in mind, the only way Stoutland is going to make it happen is with a spread of 200 Att/252 Def/56 Speed, which gives it the bulk to avoid the OHKO from EQ and still OHKO with Ice Fang, while still letting it outspeed all other non-scarfers in sand. That spread sucks though, Stoutland really should be max att and max speed to be effective...

 

[ganj4lF]

-1 Earthquake vs 4/0 Tauros : 187-222 (64.04 - 76.02%)
252 Jolly Choice Band Tauros Double-Edge: 267-315 (83.69 - 98.74%)

-1 Earthquake vs 0/4 Stoutland: 195-229 (62.7 - 73.63%)
252 Adamant Choice Band Stoutland Ice Fang: 424-500 (132.91 - 156.73%)

So yeah, Tauros is a bit shaky since it needs Band and Double Edge to actually have a chance to KO after 1 round of LO recoil (Return only does 70.84 - 83.69%), but Stoutland can do the job cleanly with Ice Fang. edit: Sorry, not only I factored in both Intimidate and Sand Rush, bit I was ninjaed like three times :/ Nice catch ;)

 

[Electrolyte]

Since it's already so fast with Sand Rush, perhaps a few Speed EVs can be invested in his bulk to lower that OHKO chance from EQ? I'll run some calcs and edit this in a moment

EDIT: Odd, my calcs told me 93.89 - 110.93% for EQ in sand, did you remember to include Sand Force and Life Orb? Anyway, with this in mind, the only way Stoutland is going to make it happen is with a spread of 200 Att/252 Def/56 Speed, which gives it the bulk to avoid the OHKO from EQ and still OHKO with Ice Fang, while still letting it outspeed all other non-scarfers in sand. That spread sucks though, Stoutland really should be max att and max speed to be effective...

Oh, no I didn't include LO. Lol.
Anyway, if you shift all of the speed EV's into defense, for a 252 Atk, 252 Def, 4 Spe you can make non LO EQ 2HKO you after SR, while you still outspeed Landorus by a ton. Not sure about LO though. Sand Force I included.

 

[Stratos]

Stoutland could work, but it's very risky. However, Sand Rush works better than Intimidate. (is it OK for me to post two sets?)

Stoutland @ Choice Band
252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Sp Atk)
~Ice Fang
~Crunch
~Return
~Fire Fang

EQ in Sand- 79-94% (44% to OHKO after SR)
Ice fang- 133-156% to Landorus

It can outspeed Landorus, it just must be careful of EQ.

Lol whoever made the stoutland OU analysis wasn't even trying. It comes one point short of outspeeding jolly Scarf Terrakion with adamant, meaning the next benchmark to hit is a Scarf Lando-I which means you can take 40 EVs out of Speed and put them into Def or HP. However, this doesn't end up mattering as you forgot to factor in Sand Force. Stoutland is always KOed with LO and Sand Force.

On the other hand, Stoutland could decide to go Jolly, which makes his EV spread more efficient. Since outspeeding Terrakion is about as useful to this stoutland as razor clippers, again, it only has to beat Scarf Lando-I, it can take 140 EVs out of its Spe and give them to its Defense. This gives it a one in eight chance to survive after SR and Sand, and it can KO back; it would kill itself to do so, however, and the lando user can just switch out and return to terrorize you.

tl;dr: i'm going to make a post in C&C about Stoutland's EV spread; it doesn't matter, however, because lando still KOes.


EDIT: But what about a max defensive intimidate stoutland? Is it useful? No. But can it counter Lando? BRB with calcs.

EDIT2: no, its ice fang is super weak when it goes defensive.

 

[WaterBomb]

252+ Sand Force LO Landorus EQ vs 252/252+ Intimidate Stoutland:

138-163 (36.89 - 43.58%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and weather (with lefties)

A physically defensive spread can work at taking the hits, but what can it do in return? Ice Fang only does 204-244 (63.94 - 76.48%) to Landorus. Maybe a gimmicky set with Charm?

EDIT: Tauros could OHKO with Giga Impact! kekeke...

EDIT2: Slaking could also do it with 252 Att/4 Def/252 Spd Impish Nature with CB Return XD

 

[Electrolyte]

Lol whoever made the stoutland OU analysis wasn't even trying. It comes one point short of outspeeding jolly Scarf Terrakion with adamant, meaning the next benchmark to hit is a Scarf Lando-I which means you can take 40 EVs out of Speed and put them into Def or HP. However, this doesn't end up mattering as you forgot to factor in Sand Force. Stoutland is always KOed with LO and Sand Force.

On the other hand, Stoutland could decide to go Jolly, which makes his EV spread more efficient. Since outspeeding Terrakion is about as useful to this stoutland as razor clippers, again, it only has to beat Scarf Lando-I, it can take 140 EVs out of its Spe and give them to its Defense. This gives it a one in eight chance to survive after SR and Sand, and it can KO back; it would kill itself to do so, however, and the lando user can just switch out and return to terrorize you.

tl;dr: i'm going to make a post in C&C about Stoutland's EV spread; it doesn't matter, however, because lando still KOes.


EDIT: But what about a max defensive intimidate stoutland? Is it useful? No. But can it counter Lando? BRB with calcs.

EDIT2: no, its ice fang is super weak when it goes defensive.

For the sake of this thread, you don't have to worry about Scarfed Landorus- but I can see what you mean. I basically just shifted 248 Speed EV's from Speed to Defense- so that it could take an EQ from Gravity Landorus yet still outspeed and OHKO with Ice Fang. Also remember that in this set Stouty is banded. I don't see any reason why you would use any other EV's on a set outside of countering Landy though.

 

[Stratos]

For the sake of this thread, you don't have to worry about Scarfed Landorus- but I can see what you mean. I basically just shifted 248 Speed EV's from Speed to Defense- so that it could take an EQ from Gravity Landorus yet still outspeed and OHKO with Ice Fang. Also remember that in this set Stouty is banded. I don't see any reason why you would use any other EV's on a set outside of countering Landy though.

What I was doing there wasn't designing the optimal set for countering Gravity Landorus, i was designing the optimal set period. The current set that's on the Stoutland OU analysis page throws in max speed because whoever made it was just like "lol speed is good" without really looking at what that speed accomplished - namely, nothing.

 

[WaterBomb]

What I was doing there wasn't designing the optimal set for countering Gravity Landorus, i was designing the optimal set period. The current set that's on the Stoutland OU analysis page throws in max speed because whoever made it was just like "lol speed is good" without really looking at what that speed accomplished - namely, nothing.

Perhaps outspeeding neutral natured max speed Excadrill? lol

 

[Stratos]

Perhaps outspeeding neutral natured max speed Excadrill? lol

it would have to be a -spe excadrill because the stoutland is adamant! hehe they're stupid >.>

 

[WaterBomb]

I'm pretty sure Lee wrote the analysis, so you can take it up with him :)

Soooo NixHex when's the next poke? I think we've exhausted Landorus-I :x

 

[Stratos]

I'm pretty sure Lee wrote the analysis, so you can take it up with him :)

Soooo NixHex when's the next poke? I think we've exhausted Landorus-I :x

Not quite, there's still one route we haven't explored: flyers. Maybe there's a flying / levitating mon that is so cool it isn't ohkoed by EQ and can ohko back (nor is it 2hkoed by SE or HP Ice)

i'm checking them right now btw, it doesn't look good though

E: OK so so far i've found Rotom-C/W (Landorus does ~70% max, Scarf set retaliates with an OHKO)
Max Defense Weezing manages to /just/ avoid the KO from EQ after SR and Sand burn with WoW but that's all it can do (but really, that's enough)
Claydol is 3hkoed by HP ice after Rocks, so it can KO with Ice Beam
Uxie can tank like 400 hits from landorus if it uses dual screens, and eventually KO with Psychic. I'd say it works.
Cresellia can eat an EQ or 2 SEs with ease and KO with Ice Beam. Counter. Unfortunately, its main recovery is completely neutered in sand.

And those are the only counters that are even worth pondering of the levitate / fly list (none of the fliers worked.)

So, in pretty form:

Rotom-C @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid / Modest
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-Leaf Storm
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Trick / Volt Switch

Can come in on Landorus, worst case scenario takes about 80% from rocks, sand, and LO HP Ice, can KO back with its own HP Ice. Not a perfect counter, but it works.

Rotom-w @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
Timid/Modest
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
-Hydro Pump
-Volt Switch
-HP Fire
-Thunderbolt/Trick

step 1: come in. step 2: don't get critted. step 3: don't miss. step 4: ??? step 5: PROFIT

Weezing @ Leftovers
Levitate
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
-WoW
-Pain Split
-Sludge bomb/Clear Smog
-Flamethrower/Thunderbolt

IF you come in on anything other than Gravity, you're golden, and all you have to worry about is your mental health (after all, you're using Weezing in OU...). If you come in on Gravity, then Landorus will proceed to EQ your ugly face into the very very red part of the health bar and you hope you hit with WoW, a noble sacrifice to save the rest of your team from sure extinction. But knowing your luck, you probably didn't.

Claydol @ Leftovers
Levitate
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Ice Beam
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
-Earth Power

Lando's most surefire counter, also spins! What a handy guy. HP ice is a 3hko no matter what, so you can even take your time and spin a little before you dispose of lando with a quick ice beam. Definitely landorus's best counter, surprised he has not been yet mentioned.

Uxie @ Light Clay / Leftovers
Bold
Levitate
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
-Yawn/Memento

Come in on lando and set up a reflect. Then keep hammering away; eventually, you'll kill the lug. Also grants team support. Handy!

Cressellia @ Leftovers
Bold
Levitate
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
-Moonlight
-Psychic
-Ice Beam
-Thunder Wave/Toxic

If Dual Screening Pixies aren't your style, you can always opt for this space duck who got banned from the RU tier! (not to be confused with Porygon-Z, the OTHER space duck who got banned from the RU tier). simply come in, ice beam, and weep as you realize your recovery is worth absolutely nothing. but hey, there's a dead landorus over there so stop whining.

edit: cress was already mentioned, whoops

EDIT3: HOW DID EVERYONE FORGET ROTOM-W?

 

[Ouro]

Rotom-W was overlooked because Gravity means that it will get hit by a SE Earthquake and unless your CS Rotom-W has Surf, you're taking a huge risk against Landorous-I.

 

[Shelmet]

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Dry Skin
Quiet
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Nasty Plot
~ Vacuum Wave
~ Dark Pulse
~ Sludge Wave

STAB Sludge wave allows Toxicroak to OHKO Breloom with just one Nasty Plot Boost. Toxicroak is faster than breloom so all you have to do is just sludge wave it.

Toxicroak is faster for spore worries, resistant to bullet seed.

Alternatively you could just give it a Lum berry to hold for spore if you worry a lot, but you really don't need to. Stone edge is my biggest worry, but then again, we're faster.

I did damage calc, and after nasty plot, sludge bomb (damage calc has no sludge wave), even though it has less base power, still OHKOs Breloom.

 

[Electrolyte]

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Dry Skin
Quiet
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
~ Nasty Plot
~ Vacuum Wave
~ Dark Pulse
~ Sludge Wave

STAB Sludge wave allows Toxicroak to OHKO Breloom with just one Nasty Plot Boost. Toxicroak is faster than breloom so all you have to do is just sludge wave it.

Toxicroak is faster for spore worries, resistant to bullet seed.

Alternatively you could just give it a Lum berry to hold for spore if you worry a lot, but you really don't need to. Stone edge is my biggest worry, but then again, we're faster.

I did damage calc, and after nasty plot, sludge bomb (damage calc has no sludge wave), even though it has less base power, still OHKOs Breloom.

Please read the OP. We are trying to counter Gravity Landorus right now, not Breloom.

 

[Pocket]

Pwnemon, who in their right minds would use Weezing in OU? It's not even a counter, since EQ OHKOs after Gravity is up.

 

[EonX]

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 Spe
Bold nature (+Def , - Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Little surprised nobody has used Shaymin yet. Somewhat inferior to Celebi, but it doesn't get insta-death if Gravity Landorus decides to carry U-Turn over something. Anyway, best move Landorus has on Shaymin is Stone Edge (37% - 44%) which has just a 1% chance to 2HKO after SR and Sandstorm damage (latter is cancelled by Leftovers) Meanwhile, Shaymin's Hidden Power Ice deals 85% - 100%, a sure OHKO after 2 rounds of LO recoil. This condition is easily met by the 2 attacks Landorus will get in on Shaymin should Gravity already be in effect as Shaymin switches in. EV spread outspeeds neutral base 90s while not making it an inferior Leech Seed user to Ferrothorn or Celebi, both of whom have a better defensive typing and set of resistances to abuse, which is the reason a faster spread is used.

 

[WaterBomb]

If Meganium doesn't milk your guernsey, perhaps a more viable option would be Shaymin?

Shaymin @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Calm Nature (+SpD)
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
-Seed Flare
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Ice
-Rest/Synthesis

Shaymin is only 3HKOed by Stone Edge (34.9 - 41.33%) after rocks and sand, whereas it will always OHKO Landorus with HP Ice after two turns of Life Orb damage. This is a variation on the smogon set, obviously more defensive with HP Ice over Fire for more utility in OU.

I did =P

 

[Stratos]

Pwnemon, who in their right minds would use Weezing in OU? It's not even a counter, since EQ OHKOs after Gravity is up.

EQ doesn't /quite/ ohko - 81% max. i listed it because it does effectively counter landorus by cutting its attack power in half and making it die even quicker. i wholeheartedly agree that it's a terrible idea, however; i was just combing all the levitate mons for any that could counter, however poor.