Cresselia (Full Revamp) +

panamaxis

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/cresselia
I've added the TrickScarf set by Jumpman16. Also the support set evs have been modified due to Garchomps removal. The TrickScarf set has references to Shaymin-S, because I understand that it is not definitely uber yet.
[SET]
Name: Support
Move 1: Reflect
Move 2: Moonlight / Rest
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Thunder Wave / Charge Beam / Psychic
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Reflect and Thunder Wave are both problematic for most of Cresselia's counters. Reflect halves physical damage and essentially neuters the threat of Pursuit, while Thunder Wave paralyses speedy Pokemon such as Weavile and Houndoom. Cresselia is one of the few Pokemon who can directly take Salamence on, so Ice Beam is a standard attack. Even with Cresselia's inept offensive capabilities she is still able to OHKO 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence with Ice Beam after Stealth Rock damage, while Salamence only has a small chance to 2HKO with a Life Orb boosted Outrage with Stealth Rock and Leftovers factored in. It also means Cresselia is pretty certain to OHKO Salamence that may have taken 20% damage, from two Life Orb attacks. Charge Beam is Cresselia's best option against Water-types, in particular Gyarados; and the potential Special Attack boost is always welcome. Psychic helps against Infernape and Heracross, but paralysing the former with Thunder Wave is usually enough to eliminate it as a threat.</p>

<p>It should be noted that sandstorm will especially ruin this Cresselia, cutting its Moonlight recovery to 25% per use. Thus, Rest is an option; although this should only be used when paired with a Cleric. Blissey is an excellent choice for this job to sponge the special attacks Cresselia cannot while Cresselia can take on the physical threats Blissey cannot, in particular Fighting-types.</p>

[SET]
Name: Sleep Talk
Move 1: Rest
Move 2: Sleep Talk
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Charge Beam / Thunder Wave / Psychic
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Rest and Sleep Talk Cresselia gains much more survivability, while playing slightly more offensive. Rest and Sleep Talk are very desirable for many reasons. First of all, Cresselia gets her full recovery during sandstorm, compared to her only gaining 25% recovery with Moonlight. Rest and Sleep Talk also help in a stall war, Cresselia can use Sleep Talk to help with PP issues, or it can just skip and cycle with Rest, slowly lowering the opponent's PP. Charge Beam works well with Rest and Sleep Talk, possibly grabbing a few Special Attack boosts along the way. However, Thunder Wave helps against fast sweepers and may allow Cresselia to eventually get a "free" turn when the opponent is fully paralyzed. However, Psychic allows Cresselia to deal with Infernape, but a bit of Special Attack is needed to OHKO it. However, in a metagame where sandstorm and Stealth Rock are dominant, Cresselia may be able to take advantage of this to KO Infernape.</p>

[SET]
Name: Calm Mind
Move 1: Calm Mind
Move 2: Psychic
Move 3: Moonlight
Move 4: Charge Beam / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fighting
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Evs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A slightly more offensive play on Cresselia, turning into a bit of a sweeper, while still retaining her bulk. This Cresselia can cause problems for anybody using Adamant Heracross as a Cresselia killer, as the given EVs allow Cresselia to outrun Adamant Heracross, and OHKO it with a +1 Psychic. Moonlight allows Cresselia to take advantage of her superb defenses, allowing for HP gain and the potential for more Calm Minds. The secondary attack depends on your team. Charge Beam hits Gyarados and may get an extra boost, but Hidden Power Fighting will smash Tyranitar and Weavile, two threats who would otherwise cause problems. Ice Beam can be used for Dragonite and Salamence.</p>

<p>Signal Beam can hit Dark- and Psychic-types hard, easing prediction against Celebi, Tyranitar, and Weavile. However, it does far less to the latter two compared to Hidden Power Fighting, and has worse type coverage. Substitute may be used over Moonlight to avoid status, especially when one considers Cresselia can make 101 HP Substitutes unbreakable by a single Seismic Toss.</p>

[SET]
name: Trick
move 1: Trick
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Moonlight
move 4: Reflect / Psychic
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 114 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Choice Scarf and Trick allow Cresselia to suprise so common switch-ins that expect a weak attack. However, smart opponents may see the lack of Leftovers recovery on Cresselia and realize that she is running Choice Scarf, so be careful. Ice Beam is the standard attack as Cresselia easily counters Salamence decently enough, being able to come in on any of its moves and threaten an OHKO with Stealth Rock down, while Salamence cannot OHKO back. With this set, she is also able to counter Choice Band Salamence, which the standard set cannot do, due to Cresselia being able to outspeed Salamence, courtesy of the Choice Scarf.</p>

<p>When Cresselia is done with its Choice Scarf, it can Trick it onto a Pokémon that could otherwise set up on it, like opposing Calm Mind Cresselia, CurseLax, or Calm Mind Suicune, crippling them for the rest of the match. It also means Cresselia can laugh at Rotom-A, who may want to Trick Cresselia itself, expecting it to be the standard tank. Cresselia however, must avoid Shadow Ball.</p>

<p>Reflect allows Cresselia to protect itself against the Pursuiters that commonly come in on her, such as Choice Band Tyranitar and Heracross. If they are not a problem, feel free to run Psychic over Reflect for greater coverage and STAB. Moonlight can be used before and after Tricking Choice Scarf, as it is helpful to stall out Outrages. Charge Beam is an option in the last moveslot to deter Gyarados from switching in, although it is most notable for providing a good combination with Ice Beam, as well as offering the chance to increase Special Attack.</p>

<p>The EVs allow Cresselia to outspeed positive speed natured base 110s, most notably Gengar, who she has a very slight chance to KO with Psychic after Stealth Rock damage. However, Gengar is commonly Scarfed and will outspeed Cresselia and hit her with Shadow Ball. However, Gengar cannot OHKO, as a Timid Gengar's Shadow Ball will top at 61% damage against Cresselia.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Besides the attacks already mentioned, Cresselia also learns Grass Knot and Shadow Ball, although neither is especially inviting when compared to its other options, especially when Hidden Power Fighting does more to Tyranitar. Hidden Power Fire allows Cresselia to combat any Scizor that dares switch in. Sunny Day makes Moonlight much more effective, and can be used once you have eliminated Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow. It does however, limit Cresselia's moveset, but is worth considering if you also have a Fire-type to primarily benefit from it. Light Screen can be used over Reflect should your desire some extra protection from special attackers. Recycle is an option over Sleep Talk, especially when paired with Chesto Berry. Psycho Shift can work with a Flame Orb to cripple Tyranitar and Scizor switch-ins, but it's a risky strategy. Toxic is a fine choice on something this bulky, as you can use Protect in conjunction with Toxic to scout Heracross's Choice Banded or Choice Scarfed moves and switch to an appropriate counter. Additionally, Toxic in tandem with Reflect can whittle down even a Choice Banded Tyranitar.</p>

<p>Special mention goes to Lunar Dance, Cresselia's signature move. If you're willing to sacrifice Cresselia, you can revitalize a stricken team mate with it.</p>

[EVs]
<p>There are a lot of ways to manage EVs on Cresselia. Here are a few EV spreads to consider.</p>

<p>Bold, 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Attack. This guarantees Ice Beam will OHKO a 4 HP / 0 SpD Salamence after Stealth Rock damage, or two turns of Life Orb recoil, and focuses on taking physical hits.</p>

<p>Calm, 252 HP / 200 Defense / 56 Special Defense. This provides Cresselia with optimized defenses, allowing it to take hits from both sides of the attacking spectrum.</p>

<p>Timid, 96 HP / 252 Special Attack / 160 Speed. This hits 270 Speed, allowing Cresselia to outspeed Adamant Heracross and KO it with Psychic after a Calm Mind. If wanted, 196 Speed will allow Cresselia to outspeed Adamant Lucario, who sits at 279 Speed.</p>

<p>Generally, you should be focusing on Cresselia's HP and defenses. Speed EVs aren't required unless you're running a Calm Mind or Choice Scarf set.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Being a primarily defensive Pokémon, Cresselia's lack of a reliable recovery move is somewhat of a let down, paired by the fact that it is weak to Pursuit and lacks many important resistances (although the Fighting and Ground resistance are welcome). Still, Cresselia has massive defenses that even Lugia would be proud of and while its attacking power is rather weak, Cresselia's decent movepool allows it to function as a great counter for many of the more potent attacking threats in OU, such as Salamence, Gyarados and Infernape. Cresselia is very tough to take down, making it a solid addition to most OU teams.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Tyranitar, Heracross, Weavile, Scizor, and Houndoom do lots of damage with their STAB Dark and Bug moves, often much more than Cresselia can handle. Metagross is virtually immune to all of Cresselia's attacks. All of them can use Pursuit too, and while Cresselia's durability is enormous, it can be (almost) knocked out by a Pursuit from Tyranitar or Weavile if she tries to switch out. Thunder Wave and Reflect really help out against a lot of these, however.</p>

<p>Blissey just shrugs off Cresselia's attacks, but a Cresselia vs. Blissey match usually descends into a stall fest unless one of them is carrying Calm Mind or Charge Beam. Rest Cresselia will win in the end, though, while Moonlight Cresselia is easily stalled out of PP if a Sandstorm is active. Snorlax will easily take Cresselia's attacks and can just Curse up and finish Cresselia off with its STAB attack or Crunch. Jirachi can come in and set up Calm Minds against Cresselia as long as it doesn’t switch into a status move. Curse Swampert can come in, only fearing the rare Grass Knot, and can set up against Cresselia.</p>

<p>Generally, you'll find that Cresselia relies a lot on status, Calm Mind or a super effective move to really stop things that can set up. Without Charge Beam, Dragon Dance + Taunt Gyarados is going to set up on it with ease. Swords Dance or Nasty Plot Infernape can outdamage those Cresselia without Psychic, Thunder Wave or Toxic.</p>
 

Colonel M

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Always use [Opinion], not Opinion.

I'm not the best at grammar checking, so I'll leave that to others because me trying would probably... yeah.
 

cim

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Uh, Psycho Shift is really kind of awful. I mean, the set works because of Trick, but Psycho Shift isn't even good. If you're using it to transfer a burn then the whole "Cresselia was burned!" message is kind of a dead giveaway.

Especially because your walling and killing potential basically turns into shit with it.
 
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/cresselia
I've added the Psycho Shift set as popularised by Myth Trainer Infinity and the TrickScarf set by Elevator Music / Jumpman16. Also the support set evs have been modified due to Garchomps removal. The TrickScarf set has references to Shaymin-S, because I understand that it is not definitely uber yet.

[SET]
Name: Support
Move 1: Reflect
Move 2: Moonlight / Rest
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Thunder Wave / Charge Beam / Psychic
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Reflect [I don't think you're supposed to have spaces on your <p> tags.] and Thunder Wave both work well against most of Cresselia's counters. They both help to cut down on damage taken from Pursuit, although Thunder Wave requires a little luck from full paralysis in order to avoid taking a hit. Cresselia works well in countering Salamence, so Ice Beam is the standard attack. The listed EVs allow Cresselia to OHKO minimum Hp / Special Defense Salamence with Ice Beam after Stealth Rock damage, while Salamence only has a small chance to 2HKO with a Life Orb boosted Outrage with Stealth Rock and Leftovers factored in. Charge Beam gives the "BoltBeam" combination but is mostly notable for hurting Gyarados in addition to grabbing a Special Attack boost occasionally. Psychic helps to take on Infernape, although paralyzing it with Thunder Wave already makes it much easier for a team mate to finish off.</p>

<p>This is a respectable wall, but Sandstorm cripples Cresselia's Moonlight, leaving it only able to recover 25% per use. Replacing Moonlight with Rest is always an option, but without Sleep Talk you will find Cresselia dead weight on your team when it's sleeping. It is better to pack Aromatherapy or Heal Bell on your team in such a case.</p>

[SET]

Name: Sleep Talk
Move 1: Rest
Move 2: Sleep Talk
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Charge Beam / Psychic / Thunder Wave
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is like the above, but Rest / Sleep Talk combination gives Cresselia more survivability, particularly when a Sandstorm dominated environment makes Moonlight undesirable. Once again you have three good options to choose from in the last slot. Charge Beam is going to deter Gyarados again while you're awake, but if you're sleeping, Gyarados will just Taunt you to prevent you from Sleep Talking, and Charge Beam won't do enough to stop Gyarados when Cresselia finally wakes up. Thunder Wave will generally help you more against a lot of other fast sweepers that try to set up on an offensively incapable Pokémon such as Cresselia. Psychic allows Cresselia to deal with Infernape, but quite a significant amount of Special Attack is required to OHKO it. In a Sandstorm and Stealth Rock dominated metagame, however, it is not required to pack a lot of Special Attack, for the indirect damage from Sandstorm and Stealth Rock will aid in destroying Infernape.</p>


[SET]
Name: Calm Mind
Move 1: Calm Mind
Move 2: Psychic
Move 3: Moonlight
Move 4: Charge Beam / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fighting
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Evs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Part sweeper, part tank. This plays somewhat like a special version of Curse Snorlax. The Speed EVs allow Cresselia to outspeed Adamant Heracross, a major threat to Cresselia (after a Calm Mind, Psychic will OHKO). What you plan on using for your secondary attack depends on your team. Charge Beam is for Gyarados once again, Hidden Power Fighting is for Tyranitar and Weavile and Ice Beam works on Salamence and Dragonite. Signal Beam is also an option if you want to hit Darks and other Psychic-types. However, it does far less damage to Tyranitar and Weavile compared to Hidden Power Fighting and has inferior type coverage.</p>


[SET]
Name: Psycho Shift
Move 1: Psycho Shift
Move 2: Psychic
Move 3: Rest
Move 4: Trick / Sleep Talk
Item: Flame Orb
Nature: Calm
Evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Psycho Shift in conjunction with Flame Orb allows Cresselia to beat a lot of its common counters, while still having the ability to counter common threats such as Tauntless Gyarados and Salamence. Psycho Shift alone will deal with Scizor, Weavile and Tyranitar, so Cresselia is free to use Psychic as a lone attack. Psychic is the recommended option as it allows you to severely hurt Heracross, who would otherwise be able to switch in freely. Rest is the recommended option of recovery as it allows Cresselia to rid itself of its burn after using Trick.</p>

<p>Sleep Talk is a fine option on this set, because if Sleep Talk picks Psycho Shift, Cresselia will be able to transfer its sleep onto the opponent. Trick will combat Sleep Talkers and Natural Cure Pokémon, who could otherwise constantly switch into take the burn. Trick also allows a chance to steal the opponents Leftovers which is a great aid for Cresselia survivability.</p>

<p>If one chooses to run Trick instead of Sleep Talk it is recommended to pack Heal Bell or Aromatherapy support, because Cresselia will be a dead weight when it is sleeping.</p>

[SET]
name: TrickScarf
move 1: Trick
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Moonlight
move 4: Reflect / Psychic
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Choice Scarf and Trick allow Cresselia to beat some threats it ["she" or "it", pick one; the current analysis uses "it"] had trouble with previously, mainly Shaymin-S. Ice Beam allows Cresselia to OHKO Shaymin-S after factoring in Stealth Rock damage. Be wary of Modest Choice Scarf Shaymin-S however, as if Cresselia gets hit by Seed Flare's Special Defense drop on the switch-in there is a chance it will get 2HKOed. Smart opponents may see the lack of Leftovers recovery on Cresselia and realize that it is running Choice Scarf, so be careful. Cresselia also easily counters most Salamence, being able to come in on any of its moves and threaten an OHKO [it's read Oh-K-O, not one-hit-K-O] with Stealth Rock down, while Salamence cannot OHKO back. With this set, it is also able to counter Choice Band Salamence, which the standard set cannot do.</p>

<p>When Cresselia is done with its Choice Scarf, it can Trick it onto a Pokémon that could otherwise set up on it, like opposing Calm Mind Cresselia, CurseLax, and Calm Mind Suicune, crippling them for the rest of the match.</p>

<p>Reflect allows Cresselia to protect itself against the Pursuiters that commonly come in on it [only instance of "her" anywhere], such as Choice Band Tyranitar and Heracross. If they are not a problem, feel free to run Psychic over Reflect for the ability to beat more threats. Moonlight can be used before and after Tricking Choice Scarf, as it is helpful to stall out Outrages.</p>

<p>The EVs allow Cresselia to outspeed Timid Shaymin-S. It may be tempting to only outspeed Modest Shaymin-S, but Cresselia will lose the ability to counter it reliably, due to the risk of being 2HKOd by Seed Flare if it drops Special Defense or if Air Slash flinches. It should be noted that Cresselia doesn't outspeed anything of importance between those two speeds and it will still outspeed things like Timid Gengar. However, Gengar is commonly Scarfed and will beat Cresselia with Shadow Ball, especially if Cresselia lacks Psychic.</p>

[Other Options] [This doesn't need to be a different size.]

<p>Besides the attacks already mentioned, Cresselia also learns Grass Knot and Shadow Ball, although neither is especially inviting when compared to its other options. Hidden Power Fire allows Cresselia to combat any Scizor that dares switch in. Sunny Day makes Moonlight much more effective, and can be used once you have eliminated Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow. It does limit Cresselia's moveset, but is worth considering if you also have a Fire-type to benefit from it. Light Screen can be used over Reflect should your desire some extra protection from special attackers. Toxic is a fine choice on something this bulky. You can use Protect in conjunction with Toxic to scout Heracross's Choice Banded or Choice Scarfed moves and switch to an appropriate counter. Additionally, Toxic in tandem with Reflect can whittle down even a Choice Banded Tyranitar.</p>

<p>Cresselia can also make 101 HP Substitutes, unbreakable by a single Seismic Toss, and attempt to Calm Mind behind the Substitute. Cresselia requires 92 HP EVs to form 101 HP Substitutes.</p>

<p>Special mention goes to Lunar Dance, Cresselia's signature move. If you're willing to sacrifice Cresselia, you can revitalize a stricken team mate with it.</p>

[EVs]

<p>There are a lot of ways to manage EVs on Cresselia. Here are a few EV spreads to consider.</p>

<p>Bold 252 HP / 252 Defense / 6 Special Attack. This guarantees Ice Beam will OHKO a minimum HP / Special Defense Salamence after Stealth Rock damage and focuses on taking physical hits.</p>

<p>Calm, 252 HP / 200 Defense / 56 Special Defense. This provides Cresselia with optimized defenses, allowing it to take hits from both sides of the attacking spectrum.</p>

<p>Timid, 96 HP / 252 Special Attack / 160 Speed. This hits 270 Speed, allowing Cresselia to outspeed Adamant Heracross and KO it with Psychic after a Calm Mind.</p>

<p>Generally, you should be focusing on Cresselia's HP and defenses. Speed EVs aren't required unless you're running a Calm Mind or Choice Scarf set. </p>

[Opinion]

<p>Being a primarily defensive Pokémon, Cresselia's lack of a reliable recovery move is somewhat of a letdown, compounded by the fact that it is weak to Pursuit and lacks many important resistances (although the fighting and ground resistance are welcome). Still, Cresselia has massive defenses that even Lugia would be proud of and while its attacking power is rather weak, Cresselia's decent movepool allows it to function as a great counter for many of the more potent attacking threats in OU, such as Salamence, Gyarados and Infernape. Cresselia is very tough to take down, making it a solid addition to most OU teams.</p>

[Counters]


<p>Tyranitar, Heracross, Weavile, Scizor, and Houndoom do lots of damage with their STAB Dark and Bug moves, although only Houndoom can safely switch in to the Psycho Shift set. Metagross is virtually immune to all of Cresselia's attacks but it cannot switch into the Psycho Shift set either. All of them can use Pursuit too, and while Cresselia's durability is enormous, it can be (almost) knocked out by a Pursuit from Tyranitar or Weavile if it tries to switch out. Thunder Wave, Psycho Shift and Reflect really help out against a lot of these, however. </p>

<p>Blissey just shrugs off Cresselia's attacks, but a Cresselia vs. Blissey match usually descends into a stall fest unless one of them is carrying Calm Mind or Charge Beam. Rest Cresselia will win in the end, though, while Moonlight Cresselia is easily stalled out of PP if a Sandstorm is active. Snorlax will easily take Cresselia's attacks and can just Curse up and finish Cresselia off with its STAB attack or Crunch. Jirachi can come in and set up Calm Minds against Cresselia as long as it doesn’t switch into a status move. Curse Swampert can come in, only fearing the rare Grass Knot and set up against Cresselia.</p>

<p>Generally, you'll find that Cresselia relies a lot on status, Calm Mind or a super effective move to really stop things that can set up. Without Charge Beam, Dragon Dance + Taunt Gyarados is going to set up on it with ease. Swords Dance or Nasty Plot Infernape can outdamage those Cresselia without Psychic, Thunder Wave or Toxic.</p>
Just some HTML, pronoun and capitalization issues along with some typos; no big deal. I'm sure someone else could come in and scrutinize the document even more. I'm not as much of a grammar nazi as I used to be.

As for the Psycho Shift set, you'll have to ask MTI how effective it is; he's hit the top 10 on the ladder with that set on the team. See this thread.

That reminds me of two things on the Psycho Shift set:

1. MTI ran Ice Beam on his Cress. Maybe it's worth a slash over Psychic?

2. Can you explain the reasoning behind the EV spread? How is it better than the standard Sleep Talk spread (most efficient) or the more efficient Calm 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD (most efficient considering the opponent's Attack drop)?
 
Do you guys think Recycle + Chesto Berry could work over Leftovers + Sleep Talk on the Rest Talk Set?

It reduces the 2 turns required for sleep, with only 1 turn required for Recycle, which can be used any time before your next Rest. Cresselia, unlike many other pokemon, is actually bulky enough to use Recycle, and hey, 1 turn of Recycling is certainly more helping than 2 turns of Sleeping.

I understand if it seems unsuitable on something since Shoddy doesn't offer Recycle, but this could be a useful set ingame. I am just saying... if someone creates a Psycho Shift set, a Recycle+Chesto set doesn't seem so gimmicky.

Perhaps just in Other options then?
 
Hhjj, Recycle seems pretty gimmicky tbh. One of the main reasons I would use ReSTalk Cresselia is to absorb status, namely sleep, which your set can't really do as after switching in on the Sleep Powder/Hypnosis, it'll get woken up first time by Chesto, but then there's nothing stopping them from sleeping you again. And obviously, taking longer to heal yourself is a massive disadvantage in such an offensive metagame as after switching in you'll have taken three hits on top of SR damage and potentially Sandstorm damage due to lack of Leftovers before you actually manage to heal yourself.

I haven't tried it, but could a Dual-screen set with Light Clay work? Cresselia is easily the bulkiest Pokemon that gets both moves, which counts for a lot. Also, on the Calm Mind set, Moonlight isn't the most reliable option, so I do think that Rest and maybe Reflect deserve mentions in Set Comments as potential replacements, if not in the set itself.
 
I don't like Psycho Shift. It was discussed before, and people generally decided that it just isn't that good. I wouldn't add it into the analysis.
 

Caelum

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Remove Psycho Shift. That's not being added. It's come up before and been declined before. Trick doesn't make it any different.

Also, you have a lot of size & font tags. Please remove them. It's cumbersome to delete them and reformat it later on for us.
 

cim

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A quick test on Shoddy showed that Psycho Shift didn't get any better with Trick. It still sucks.

It's like saying because Caelum uses Specs Surskit competitively we need to add that to the analysis. (Well, we will once NFEs are allwed in UU, but you get the point)
 
There shouldn't be spaces before or after <p> and </p>.

Also, substitute is fairly common on CM Cress. IMO At least put it in the set comments.
 

Colonel M

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Agreeing that Psycho Shift is a horrible idea for this analysis. It is, by far, Cresselia's worst set to even attempt. Ladder ranking or not, crippling your wall is not a very good way of looking at things. Sure you can burn Tyranitar and such, but once they've figured out the facade, they'll simply swap in Pokemon such as Heatran and just laugh as Cresselia does nothing to it. If it IS included, it should be at the very bottom.
 

Venom

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<p>Choice Scarf and Trick allow Cresselia to beat some threats she had trouble with previously, mainly Shaymin-S. Ice Beam allows Cresselia to OHKO Shaymin-S after factoring in Stealth Rock damage. Be wary of Modest Choice Scarf Shaymin-S however, as if Cresselia gets hit by Seed Flare's Special Defense drop on the switch-in there is a chance she will get 2HKOed. Smart opponents may see the lack of Leftovers recovery on Cresselia and realize that she is running Choice Scarf, so be careful. Cresselia also easily counters most Salamence, being able to come in on any of its moves and threaten a OHKO with Stealth Rock down, while Salamence cannot OHKO back. With this set, she is also able to counter Choice Band Salamence, which the standard set cannot do.</p>
lets try not to abbreviate much in the set comments
 

cim

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The worst part about Psycho Shift is it's not even a surprise. There's a big fat "Cresselia was burned!" message right there!

Not to mention the residual stops you from countering what Cress is supposed to (Salamence, Infernape).

It's basically a dead weight not-surprise that punishes idiots.
 
I think those are an older version of the Trick Scarf comments. I'd changed it. Regardless, the EVs clash with what you are writing.

Keep the EVs and write out a new set comments for TrickScarf, since currently Shaymin-s is Uber and the set comments don't pertain to the EVs that are listed anyways.

EDIT- Also I really had nothing to do with TrickScarf Cresselia; the credit is all Jump's. Take my name off the OP please, it feels out of place.
 
I've been using a bulky CM Cressalia, is that viable? Seems to be better because that way you won't be revenge killed by something like ScarfCross' Megahorn.

252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Charge Beam / Ice Beam / HP Fighting
- Rest

Leftovers or even Chesto Berry can work. From my experience, you aren't even 2HKOed by LO Salamance's Outrage. Rest is also I lot more reliable. I can write an analysis if it'll work?
 

panamaxis

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Ok the psycho-shift set has been removed and I've fixed up the grammar.

I was wondering if I should mention on the Choice Scarf set that this Cresselia can actually counter Yache-Chomp. I'll see if I can talk to Jumpman16 or Elevator Music about what EVs are best for trick Cresselia (this would depend on whether Shaymin-S will be mentioned or not). Also should I remove references to Shaymin-S on the trick-scarf set?

Also what are people's opinion on adding a Dual-Screen set?
 
Does anyone here think Cresselia could be used in Ubers, and should we have an Ubers set (alternative to the OU sets)?

The advantage here is not having a (Stealth) Rock / Electric / Ice weakness. With the abundance of Thunder and Ice Beam users around in Ubers, isn't it time we think of a Cresselia set to work as a Substitute for Lugia on Groudon teams?

Supporting Groudon @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 HP / 156 Atk / 32 Def / 60 SpD / 8 Spe

Roar
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Dragon Claw

Now with Moonlight boosted, and Stealth Rocks down, and Groudon having access to Roar (No need for Whirlwind Lugia), Cresselia can come in and set up Reflect and do her thing.

Stealth Rocks help make up the difference between Lugia and Cresselia's SpA btw, as it does 25% to Rayquaza on the switch in.

Cresselia: @ Leftovers
252 HP/108 Def/148 SDef

Bold

~ Moonlight
~ Reflect
~ Ice Beam
~ Toxic / Light Screen / Thunder Wave

Toxic can be replaced if you have Toxic (Spikes) elsewhere, but it is helpful when dealing with threats that switch-in or rely on Recover (Mewtwo). Light Screen helps against the majority of Ubers as most are Special Attackers, and Thunder Wave helps against faster threats so they end up slower than even Cresselia; especially effective vs Choice Scarfers who are stuck with 1 move anyways.

This is a rough idea, and I am sure it isn't great, but while we are here, and while Cresselia can function in Ubers, let's try and make sure she is covered in the Ubers Tier too.
 
Ok the psycho-shift set has been removed and I've fixed up the grammar.

I was wondering if I should mention on the Choice Scarf set that this Cresselia can actually counter Yache-Chomp. I'll see if I can talk to Jumpman16 or Elevator Music about what EVs are best for trick Cresselia (this would depend on whether Shaymin-S will be mentioned or not). Also should I remove references to Shaymin-S on the trick-scarf set?

Also what are people's opinion on adding a Dual-Screen set?
The ones you have listed are better. After I posted my thread (and then kinda let it die) I played around with the set a bit more and I definitely agree with Jump the ability to take hits better is more important than beating Timid Shaymin-s. Especially seeing as you won't always have that Scarf so once you get rid of it you want to be bulkier.

Test a Dual Screen set. She is the bulkiest user of them, but she can't really do anything after they're set up. She doesn't get that Explosion option that sets the pace for more offensive teams (which is what you'd use DS on right?). However she does get [crappy] recovery along with them, so she can definitely do it more than once (in theory). It's worth at least experimenting with.
 

cim

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hhjj, uh, why do you keep proposing sets that you've not only never tested, but for metagames you've clearly never played? This is against the rules and doesn't really help us at all but you still continue to do it.
 

Jumpman16

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you probably shouldn't refer to either garchomp or skymin for the trick set, but the EVs shouldn't change much if at all
 

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