LC Croagunk

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Taken from Corkscrew with permission, a part of the LC QC Project

Overview
########
Croagunk returns for the third generation in a row as an excellent Pokemon in LC. Croagunk can check a lot of threats at once, meaning that Croagunk will often find its way onto a team. Croagunk’s typing grants it resistances to Rock-, Poison-, Grass-, Fighting-, and Dark-type moves, and its ability, Dry Skin, grants it an immunity to Water-type moves as well. Croagunk’s resistances allow it to counter and check a slew of top tier Pokemon such as Carvanha, Mienfoo, and Tirtouga, among others. In addition, Croagunk is the only Fighting-type in LC to be hit neutrally by Fairy-type attacks, so it can severely weaken Cottonee and Spritzee, LC's premier Fairy-types. However, its bulk and attacking stats can be underwhelming at times, often allowing neutral attacks to 2HKO or severely weaken Croagunk.

Mixed Utility
########
name: Mixed Utility
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Knock Off / Shadow Ball
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 132 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 108 SpA / 116 SpD
nature: Quiet

Moves
========

Drain Punch is used as it gives Croagunk a means of recovering health and allows Croagunk to beat Rock-, Ice-, and Normal-types with ease. Sludge Bomb is Croagunk’s most powerful move in this set, hitting Fairy-types super effectively, allowing Croagunk to 2HKO Spritzee. Vacuum Wave is useful for dealing with faster Pokemon such as Carvanha, Bunnelby, and Pawniard, as well as for picking off faster weakened threats. Knock Off is one of the best moves in the game, and it allows Croagunk to pose a threat to many of its switch-ins. Alternatively, Shadow Ball can be used if Will-O-Wisp is a problem, as it allows Croagunk to check Misdreavus.

Set Details
========

Equpping an Eviolite gives Croagunk some much needed bulk, and it works really well with Drain Punch recovery. The EVs are distributed between the defensive and offensive stats in order to be as efficient as possible, although Croagunk has to sacrifice its Speed. Dry Skin allows Croagunk to wall Carvanha and Tirtouga, as well as be able to switch into Chinchou’s Scalds.

Usage Tips
========

Croagunk should be switching on the Pokemon that it walls, such as Tirtouga, Carvanha, Scraggy, Mienfoo, and Timburr. It cannot be expected to be a huge threat to opposing teams, as it can be easily worn down if the opponent repeatedly forces it in. Croagunk should be used as a glue Pokemon to stop Pokemon such as Tirtouga from sweeping your team. If Pokemon such as Carvanha or Tirtouga are on the opposing team, it is best to play reservedly, keeping Croagunk ready so that the threat cannot set up.

Team Options
========

As it's often used as a glue Pokemon, Croagunk generally offers more to the team than the team can offer to it. It does, however, need good switch-ins to Psychic-, Fire-, Ground-, and Flying-type moves from the likes of Abra, Larvesta, Drilbur, Archen, and Fletchling. Rock- and Steel-types make great partners as they resist Flying-type moves. Tirtouga also likes Croagunk's Knock Off support. Rock- and Water-types can take on the Fire-types that Croagunk hates. Slowpoke can handle Ground- and Fire-types, making it a good partner. Other Fighting-types such as Mienfoo or Scraggy appreciate Croagunk's ability to cripple Fighting-type switch-ins with Knock Off as well as being a good switch-in to Fairy-types. Pokemon that can pass it health are really beneficial, as Croagunk has no recovery outside of Dry Skin and the weak Drain Punch. Spritzee, Lickitung, and Ferroseed make good partners, as Croagunk can switch in on Fighting- and Poison-type moves for them.


Physical Attacker
########
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Bulk Up / Fake Out / Sucker Punch
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Drain Punch is Croagunk's main STAB move, and it allows Croagunk to heal itself throughout the match. Drain Punch also checks Scraggy, Tirtouga, and Carvanha. Gunk Shot is the strongest attack that Croagunk has, and is Croagunk's best move for beating Spritzee. Gunk Shot 2HKOes Spritzee more often than not, and in tight situations, it can be fallen back on for its poison chance, although a 30% chance is not all that huge. After losing its Eviolite, Spritzee is OHKOed by Gunk Shot. Gunk Shot is also the best attack against Timburr and Mienfoo. Knock Off is the best support move that Croagunk can offer, and is also Croagunk's best option against Misdreavus. Bulk Up is used in the last slot in order to set up against Timburr, Trubbish, or any other Pokemon that cannot harm Croagunk. Fletchling fails to OHKO Croagunk at full health after a boost, and this can be used to lure a threat out to OHKO it with a +1 Gunk Shot. However this is generally risky, and relies heavily on Croagunk being at full health. Fake Out can be used over Bulk Up in order to do damage over time to teams, while Sucker Punch lets Croagunk check Pokemon like Abra. Poison Jab can be used over Gunk Shot if accuracy is an issue, as Gunk Shot only hits 80% of the time, but the loss in power is noticeable.

Set Details
========

36 Speed EVs let Croagunk outspeed Spritzee, allowing for the possible 2HKO with Gunk Shot. 36 Speed EVs also let Croagunk outspeed Honedge, Ferroseed, and Porygon. 188 Attack EVs leave Croagunk as strong as possible on the physical side, allowing for multiple 2HKOs and OHKOs in order for Croagunk to act as a blanket check to troublesome Pokemon. The remainder is thrown into HP and the defenses to give Croagunk some needed bulk, which allows it to survive important attacks such as Spritzee's Moonblast, which fails to 2HKO Croagunk with the given EV spread. Eviolite boosts Croagunk's defenses even further, and is more beneficial than any other item.

Usage Tips
========

Croagunk should be switching in on walls and threats that cannot really harm it, such as Timburr or Spritzee. Other common Pokemon to switch into include Mienfoo, Tirtouga, and Carvanha. This set should be used similarly to the mixed utility set, checking a variety of Pokemon. Croagunk should be used conservatively, as it can check a variety of threats to a team. If Pokemon such as Carvanha, Mienfoo, Tirtouga, Timburr, Spritzee, or Cottonee are still alive, keep Croagunk safe in order to revenge kill or check them.


Team Options
========

This set appreciates more support than the Utility set. Aromatherapy Spritzee is a great partner, as Croagunk does not like being burned. Scraggy is an excellent partner, as it appreciates Knock Off support, as well as Croagunk's ability to beat Spritzee, Timburr, and Mienfoo. Croagunk does not like Ghost-types all that much, making Dark-type Pokemon such as Pawniard good partners. Croagunk also needs a teammate that can switch into Ground-type moves, as Drilbur can easily switch in on a move like Fake Out or Gunk Shot. Fletchling forces Croagunk out, so Archen or Chinchou make great partners.

Nasty Plot Wallbreaker
########
name: Nasty Plot Wallbreaker
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Shadow Ball / Icy Wind
ability: Dry Skin
item: Berry Juice
evs: 52 HP / 116 Def / 188 SpA / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Nasty Plot is the boosting move of this set, allowing Croagunk to punch holes through common Pokemon. At +2, Sludge Bomb OHKOes Spritzee, 2HKOes Vullaby, and 2HKOes Timburr. Porygon is also 2HKOed at +2, as are other more stall based Pokemon, such as Lileep. Vacuum Wave forces Pawniard out and helps check Pokemon such as Tirtouga or Carvanha. It is also Croagunk's second best special Fighting-type move, only beaten by Focus Blast in terms of power. Shadow Ball can be used to OHKO Berry Juice Misdreavus most of the time, and is Croagunk's best option against Gastly. Icy Wind can be used in the last slot if you want to be able to slow a potential check or counter, allowing for easier setup. Icy Wind also helps to support teammates that might theoretically check a threat, but are too slow to do so.


Set Details
========

The EVs are optimized to OHKO and 2HKO threats to team members after a boost, such as Vullaby or Timburr. A +2 Sludge Bomb 2HKOes Vullaby and can often OHKO Spritzee, allowing Fighting-type teammates to sweep unimpeded. 36 Speed EVs allow Croagunk to outspeed minimum Speed Spritzee, allowing for the 2HKO without a boost. Berry Juice is preferred over Eviolite as Nasty Plot Croagunk has no means of recovery, and the added bulk is not as necessary.

Usage Tips
========

Croagunk can set up on common Pokemon such as Chinchou, Trubbish, and most Fighting-types, specifically Timburr or Mienfoo. One of the best and easiest ways to set up is to take advantage of Croagunk's excellent typing and slew of resistances. Forcing out Pokemon such as Cottonee or Pawniard is ideal. Croagunk can also come in on Pawniard and Tirtouga, two big offensive threats, and either set up or straight out KO them. In a pinch, Croagunk can also perform as a glue, like the Mixed Utility set, but it is outclassed in this regard by the aforementioned set, and the lack of bulk really hurts Croagunk.

Team Options
===========

Something that can beat Drilbur is an excellent teammate, as Croagunk cannot beat Drilbur itself except for on a predicted switch with Icy Wind. Pokemon that hate Timburr, Vullaby, or Spritzee make good teammates with Croagunk, as Croagunk can eliminate them to sweep. This means that Pokemon such as Scraggy or Pawniard make great teammates. A good switch-in to Fletchling is always needed, making Archen a good teammate. Something that can set up Stealth Rock is also an ideal teammate, as some of the Pokemon that Croagunk can check are KOed much easier to handle when Stealth Rock is up, such as Vullaby and Berry Juice Misdreavus.

Other Options
##########

Fake Out is an option, but it is quite weak, and most of the time, Croagunk has better moves to use. Rock Slide can hit incoming Flying- and Fire-types, particularly Larvesta. Earthquake can also hit Fire-types and is more useful for hitting Ponyta than Rock Slide is. Ice Punch hits the Flying- and Ground-types that often switch into Croagunk for super effective damage. Sludge Bomb can be used on the physical utility set in order to 2HKO physically defensive Spritzee. Icy Wind or Bulldoze can be used on the Nasty Plot or Bulk Up sets respectively in order to have a safer way to set up by forcing a switch. A Substitute + Focus Punch set can be used, or even just Substitute. Bullet Punch can be used as a safer option than Sucker Punch, but it is largely outclassed by Vacuum Wave. Poison Touch can be used as an alternate ability, if you want to feign Dry Skin. The chance to poison helps to weaken switch-ins as well. A Work Up set can also be used on teams that can make up for Croagunk's Speed issues.

Checks & Counters
########

**Poison-types**: Poison-types such as Koffing or Grimer can easily switch in on Croagunk, resisting both of its STABs. Koffing can burn Croagunk, while Grimer can hit hard with a Fire Punch and doesn't mind Knock Off thanks to Sticky Hold.

**Psychic-types**: Psychic-types such as Slowpoke make great counters to Croagunk, hitting it with their 4x super effective STAB moves. Abra is a nice check as well, although it has to be wary of switching in as a Knock Off followed by a Vacuum Wave KOes it. Abra can also hold a Focus Sash and stop Croagunk from attempting a sweep.

**Ground-types**: Hippopotas and Drilbur can easily switch in and immediately threaten Croagunk. Diglett struggles to switch in, but it can easily trap and KO Croagunk.

**Flying-types**: Fletchling can outspeed and KO Croagunk with its STAB attacks. Vullaby, Mantyke, and Archen also make excellent switch-ins, as none of them fear anything that Croagunk has to offer aside from a possible poison from Sludge Bomb.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types resist Croagunk's STAB attacks and can usually threaten it with a burn. However, most of them cannot switch in directly, as a Knock Off will either cripple or outright OHKO them.

**Fire-types**: Fire-types hit Croagunk hard due to Dry Skin. Larvesta and Ponyta can threaten it with a burn, and the former resists Fighting-type moves. Vulpix is also a threat as the sun it brings with Drought hurts Croagunk, and Croagunk can do nothing to it in return.
 
Last edited:

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
All mentions of Meditite and Murkrow are gone. Other additions include a slash of Shadow Ball on the main set, the addition of Poison-types to the Checks & Counters section, and various other additions to the Checks & Counters sections, such as Vulpix and Abra. This is ready for QC checking :)
 
I would approve this, but I'm not entirely sure I buy the EVs. Does it beat anything in particular with the EVs? I know it has enough SpA to 2HKO Spritzee with Sludge Bomb but it's slow af and only ties with Spritzee. It's not a huge problem now, but one could see with the removal of Meditite that Trubbish could be a problem and a move like Earthquake would give Croagunk a pretty good niche even with just a mention on the main set. With this in mind, maybe Gunk Shot / Earthquake / Drain Punch / Fake Out (or Knock Off) may be a useful utility set and it may be worth testing as well it will just have crazy 4MSS.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Heysup

I personally dont think Earthquake deserves a slash. Croagunk fails to OHKO standard berry juice Trubbish the majority of the time, even with max attack and Fake out. The ev spread allows for like a 0.4% chance for Misdreavus to 2hko, while Knock Off or Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball usually 2hkoes back. The ev spread also avoids the 2hko from +1 Bulky Scraggy High Jump Kick, while 2hkoing with Drain Punch back. Taking ~30% from Spritzee is nice as well. The point is, the ev spread is designed so that Croagunk can effectively form as a blanket check for pokemon such as scraggy, tirtouga, timburr, mienfoo, misdreavus, and spritzee. I would deter people from wasting their croagunk on a popular lead, and steer them towards developing a more effective anti lead, such as drilbur or something. Personally i always save croagunk until when he is needed, instead of recklessly switching him into resisted attacks. However i am definitely open to a more efficient ev spread if there is one.
 
I had a lot of success with Fake Out (I guess Sucker Punch could go here) / Gunk Shot / Drain Punch / Knock Off with Adamant, 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe. If you don't think it's worth it for a physical set then I guess that's ok. I just would rather more effectively take out Pokemon like Timburr, deal more damage with Drain Punch, Knock Off and have a huge 120 BP move that destroys Spritzee, which it now actually outspeeds. I know Misdreavus burns hurt it, but if you Knock Off Missy, Croagunk would be willing to make that trade literally any day. An argument could even be made for slashing Sludge Bomb onto the physical set because that actually generally 2HKOEs Spritzee with SR and doesn't lose out on the Speed. Not to take out the general blanket set either, just as another option for a set. Croagunk just has so many good moves.

Just keep these things in mind, I trust you to do something that makes sense. QC 1/3.

EDIT: This has been revoked. See post #12.
 
Last edited:

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I had a lot of success with Fake Out (I guess Sucker Punch could go here) / Gunk Shot / Drain Punch / Knock Off with Adamant, 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe. If you don't think it's worth it for a physical set then I guess that's ok. I just would rather more effectively take out Pokemon like Timburr, deal more damage with Drain Punch, Knock Off and have a huge 120 BP move that destroys Spritzee, which it now actually outspeeds. I know Misdreavus burns hurt it, but if you Knock Off Missy, Croagunk would be willing to make that trade literally any day. An argument could even be made for slashing Sludge Bomb onto the physical set because that actually generally 2HKOEs Spritzee with SR and doesn't lose out on the Speed. Not to take out the general blanket set either, just as another option for a set. Croagunk just has so many good moves.

Just keep these things in mind, I trust you to do something that makes sense. QC 1/3.
I will definitely add an all physical set to the analysis, it seems pretty cool. Also checks more because of different moves that the Glue set cant normally run. TY Heysup, these additions will be added really soon!

EDIT: Heysup would be beneficial if you could explain your EV spread more indepth, either by vm or on IRC (not worth a post tbh). I tried to guess and calc what little i could without doing every calc ever, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any part of that set.

Implemented!

EDIT: Tagging Goddess Briyella for the Nasty Plot and Bulk Up sets.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure I'm ok with those additions. Bulk Up can simply be slashed over Fake Out on the physical set and the NP set is....well I'm not sure about its viability. If I were ok with it, I would not even consider Icy Wind frankly.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Goddess Briyella prem sorry for tagging you or seeming pushy, i just want to get these done fast *-*
Heysup I would be willing to remove the physical attacking set and mentioning fake out on the bulk up set. Im not too keen on simply slashing Bu for fake out, as BU is absolutely godly if played right. Its a better BU timburr imo because of the typing. Fake out seems kinda gimmicky tbh as it doesnt really check much that a normal sucker punch or something doesnt. Fake out is pretty weak, and its outclassed by mienfoo who can come in and repeatedly fake out to check stuff with regenerator. Idk maybe its just me but ive had pretty good success with it.

As to np gunk, ive also had excellent success with that too. Either or can function great. I will put bulldoze/icy wind in other options though. Id like more discussion on these sets tho as afaik the other main set is fine. Also if someone could explain if there is any difference between my ev soread on bu gunk and heysups physical utility set that would be nice
 
Physical Attacker
########
name: Attacking Utility
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Fake Out / Bulk Up
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Adamant

That's probably all that actually needs to be on the set. Earthquake can just be mentioned for Trubbish I guess it doesn't even need to be on there. Bulk Up timburr also gets mach punch which is a huge advantage if you ask me.

I'll test out the NP set at some point.
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
  • Croagunk has several unique qualities and advantages that should be highlighted. It can beat out every other Fighting-type in the tier apart from the rare Zen Headbutt Scraggy and Acrobatics Mienfoo. Croagunk is also the only Fighting-type in the tier that is not weak to Fairy; it actually severely threatens Spritzee and Cottonee, and that is something that no other Fighting-type can lay claim to in Little Cup.
  • I think Knock Off on the Physical Attacker set is non-negotiable and Earthquake should be removed from the set and added to Other Options. If you're using Earthquake to beat other Poison-types, remember that they really can't do much to Croagunk either and at least Croagunk has a recovery attack.
  • The Physical Attacker and Bulk Up sets should have Poison Jab slashed with Gunk Shot, for the same reason Tirtouga would run Rock Slide over Stone Edge. Shaky accuracy can be costly at crucial times.
  • The Bulk Up set's synopsis should entail not only what Croagunk can switch into, but also all the things you can set up on fearlessly, which includes Tentacool, Carvanha, Scraggy, Mienfoo, Timburr, Riolu, and Tirtouga. Zen Headbutt from Carvanha and Scraggy will definitely hurt but those are reasonably rare on those two, and Riolu cannot hurt Croagunk with any of its own attacks with Copycat. Tirtouga can run Earthquake but most of those prefer Aqua Jet over it, so it's reasonably uncommon as well.
  • Make Bulldoze the final slash on the Bulk Up set instead of Sucker Punch. Switch those.
  • Gunk Shot should not be listed as the best option for hitting other Fighting-types with when Drain Punch does neutral damage to them and also restores health. Gunk Shot of course deals more immediate damage, but you also have Bulk Up that you can get away with using against them with little to worry about.
  • Remove the mention of Sludge Bomb being a good idea to spam early-game with the Nasty Plot set, because this kind of Croagunk should not be used early-game at all if you can help it.
  • It is not stressed enough how problematic Psychic-types are for Croagunk, especially Abra. In addition to listing the threat of these in Checks & Counters, teammates that help deal with them should be added to the Team Options of every set in the analysis, especially the ones that make use of setup, as there's no point in attempting to sweep if the opponent has Abra in waiting.
The Nasty Plot set looks okay to me.


QC 2/3 ♥
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Physical Attacker
########
name: Attacking Utility
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Gunk Shot
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Fake Out / Bulk Up
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Adamant

That's probably all that actually needs to be on the set. Earthquake can just be mentioned for Trubbish I guess it doesn't even need to be on there. Bulk Up timburr also gets mach punch which is a huge advantage if you ask me.

I'll test out the NP set at some point.
I'm gonna go with keeping the Bulk Up and Physical Attacker utility sets seperate for right now, as BU plays differently form my experience. BU enjoys being early game to set up on Trubbish and possibly get to +2/+2 if they are dum. The utility set seems to abuse Fake Out more than anything, to come in and play like Mienfoo did, and to check Spritzee and friends. In all honesty its simply an extension of the glue mixed utility.

I will switch the EV spread tho bc I trust your spread over mine!

EDIT: done with Bri's suggestions, only one not taken was slashing Bulldoze on Gunk. Both Icy Wind and Bulldoze were delegated to OO :[ after testing I just found I never used either, and you beat Trubbish one on one anyway with Bulk Up
 
Last edited:
Then I guess (if the policy allows) I would like to remove my QC check, at least for now. I still need to test the NP set in this metagame (it's probably fine) but the bigger issue is the analysis structure.

The Bulk Up / Fake Out sets are used practically the same with the one difference of having set up capabilities versus the occasional revenge kill / Sturdy-breaking quality of Fake Out which are very situational differences which can be explained in literally one sentence. Both sets are meant to take on the same role, they force out the same Pokemon (besides maybe more urgently in some respects) and do more or less the same attacks on the switches. I would be OK with slashing Bulk Up over Fake Out even though high up on the ladder you don't get a turn to set up Bulk Up, you need to take the turn to Knock Off or Gunk Shot most of the time and Fake Out helps with chip damage (which, again, often decides a game between good players). I honestly wish I saved replays to prove this point further -_-. Maybe I'll gather some ^_^.

QC should be back to 1/3.

Also unrelated:

<fitzy> "Croagunk's unique typing allows it to check a host of threats, such as Scarf Pawn, Trubbish, and Tirtouga. "
<+Caledrith> it checks trubbish?
<fitzy> Checks & Counters
<fitzy> ########
<fitzy> **Poison-types**: Poison-types such as Trubbish or Grimer can easily switch in on Croagunk, resisting both STABs as well as not losing their item from Knock Off.
<fitzy> this thing is a god
<+atomicllamas> lol
<fitzy> checks a counter to itself

But seriously, specify which sets counter what. A set up / physical attacker with Bulldoze/EQ checks Trubbish (assuming max Spikes are up) where as otherwise Trubbish uses Gunk for set up bait.

EDIT: I tested NP and it's definitely worth a set but I found Berry Juice to be more useful without Drain Punch regen. This was my first game lol:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-114851318
 
Last edited:

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Then I guess (if the policy allows) I would like to remove my QC check, at least for now. I still need to test the NP set in this metagame (it's probably fine) but the bigger issue is the analysis structure.

The Bulk Up / Fake Out sets are used practically the same with the one difference of having set up capabilities versus the occasional revenge kill / Sturdy-breaking quality of Fake Out which are very situational differences which can be explained in literally one sentence. Both sets are meant to take on the same role, they force out the same Pokemon (besides maybe more urgently in some respects) and do more or less the same attacks on the switches. I would be OK with slashing Bulk Up over Fake Out even though high up on the ladder you don't get a turn to set up Bulk Up, you need to take the turn to Knock Off or Gunk Shot most of the time and Fake Out helps with chip damage (which, again, often decides a game between good players). I honestly wish I saved replays to prove this point further -_-. Maybe I'll gather some ^_^.

QC should be back to 1/3.

Also unrelated:

<fitzy> "Croagunk's unique typing allows it to check a host of threats, such as Scarf Pawn, Trubbish, and Tirtouga. "
<+Caledrith> it checks trubbish?
<fitzy> Checks & Counters
<fitzy> ########
<fitzy> **Poison-types**: Poison-types such as Trubbish or Grimer can easily switch in on Croagunk, resisting both STABs as well as not losing their item from Knock Off.
<fitzy> this thing is a god
<+atomicllamas> lol
<fitzy> checks a counter to itself

But seriously, specify which sets counter what. A set up / physical attacker with Bulldoze/EQ checks Trubbish (assuming max Spikes are up) where as otherwise Trubbish uses Gunk for set up bait.

EDIT: I tested NP and it's definitely worth a set but I found Berry Juice to be more useful without Drain Punch regen. This was my first game lol:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-114851318
Trubbiish is mentioned in C&C bc trubbish cannot do anything to it (hence in the overview) but croagunk cant do anything back. Even bulldoze at +1 does poop Nd trubbish can just recycle stLl. Its a poor counter yeah but it is what it is. Id be hPpy removing either mention i just dk which one. Thinking the c&c mention.

I would be fine with slashing Fake Out behind bulk up . Bulk Up is just too important to not put in, as it can actually set and win fairly well late game. Setting up =/= equivalent of chilling pokemon down and the two cannot be used interchangeably. A fake out mienfoo set is infinitely more favorable than a fake out gunk. Mienfoo for one has hgiher bulk in the long run, is muchos faster, and has regenerator. I can literally see no reason to use fake out, even more so to have it as a first slash. I will add berry juice to the items for np gunk, possibly emover eviolite. I will also remove the qc check until this thing is settled out ;-;
 
Trubbiish is mentioned in C&C bc trubbish cannot do anything to it (hence in the overview) but croagunk cant do anything back. Even bulldoze at +1 does poop Nd trubbish can just recycle stLl. Its a poor counter yeah but it is what it is. Id be hPpy removing either mention i just dk which one. Thinking the c&c mention.
Any set up Croagunk can infinitely set up on it and KO with whatever attack.

I would be fine with slashing Fake Out behind bulk up . Bulk Up is just too important to not put in, as it can actually set and win fairly well late game. Setting up =/= equivalent of chilling pokemon down and the two cannot be used interchangeably. A fake out mienfoo set is infinitely more favorable than a fake out gunk. Mienfoo for one has hgiher bulk in the long run, is muchos faster, and has regenerator. I can literally see no reason to use fake out, even more so to have it as a first slash. I will add berry juice to the items for np gunk, possibly emover eviolite. I will also remove the qc check until this thing is settled out ;-;
?

Bulk Up can simply be slashed over Fake Out on the physical set
I would be OK with slashing Bulk Up over Fake Out even though high up on the ladder you don't get a turn to set up Bulk Up
And yea, Eviolite doesn't make too much sense on sets without Drain Punch.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Any set up Croagunk can infinitely set up on it and KO with whatever attack.



?




And yea, Eviolite doesn't make too much sense on sets without Drain Punch.
Editting out the trubbish in c and c rn. Adding bj on np rn.

For the bulk up/fake out thing you have, idk how i worded it weirdly but the set from my interpretation of your idea was

Move 1: Fake Out / Bulk Up

Where imo it should be bulk up first. I dont think i worded that weirdly, as behind implies that fake out would go second on the set but w/e... I think that was your question. I uderstan that you want bu simply slashed over fake out, but imo Bulk Up should be the main and fake out be the slash.
 
1 over 2 is 1 / 2. Bulk Up over Fake Out is Bulk Up / Fake Out. I never said "behind" I said it can be slashed over it like 4 times including this time and I'm not going to repeat it again.

Also what does the extra HP and Speed do on Croagunk's NP set that makes it so important to remove 2 entire SpA points? I'm pretty sure it needs what little SpA it can get specifically for defensive teams with 2HKOing Porygon and Lileep as well the capability to OHKO Misdreavus with SR as well as guaranteeing KOes on BJ Missy, Spritzee, Omanyte, and probably other things.

If there's a move it needs to survive, I guess it would be fine but i'm not sure what that move would be.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
1 over 2 is 1 / 2. Bulk Up over Fake Out is Bulk Up / Fake Out. I never said "behind" I said it can be slashed over it like 4 times including this time and I'm not going to repeat it again.
ok well the way you phrase it (specifically including 'slashing x over x') sounds to me like fake out would be the first choice. SORRY. English isnt my first language, and no need to be so final. It would have been much easier to simply say "remove the physical attacker set and slash fake out." But again, no need to give ultimatums.

Also what does the extra HP and Speed do on Croagunk's NP set that makes it so important to remove 2 entire SpA points? I'm pretty sure it needs what little SpA it can get specifically for defensive teams with 2HKOing Porygon and Lileep as well the capability to OHKO Misdreavus with SR as well as guaranteeing KOes on BJ Missy, Spritzee, Omanyte, and probably other things.

If there's a move it needs to survive, I guess it would be fine but i'm not sure what that move would be.
TCR said:
- EVs are optimized to OHKO and 2hko threats to team members, such as Vullaby or Timburr.
- 36 Spe with Timid hits 13 Speed, outspeeding Honedge, Vullaby, and Spritzee.
There are no "extra HP" EVs. Those are the standard. They are on the Mixed Utility (1st set) set. That was the set before, that Rowan came up with, so I just left it alone. The Speed EVs are in the description, which i so helpfully quoted again for you. I have also explained the EVs at least 3 times on IRC. The Speed beats minimum speed Vullaby alloing for the 2hko with Rocks up.
+2 108 SpA Croagunk Sludge Bomb vs. 236 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 12-15 (46.1 - 57.6%) -- 51.2% chance to 2HKO
By default it outspeeds Spritzee and Honedge.

Croagunk already 2hkoes 236 / 156 Porygon with rocks up anyway, and the only thing bulkier would be 236 / 236+ which is lol.
+2 108 SpA Croagunk Sludge Bomb vs. 236 HP / 156+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 12-15 (46.1 - 57.6%) -- 51.2% chance to 2HKO

whereas triattack 2hkoes, meaning that Berry Juice will activate bar a crit. And with Vaccuum Wave it doesnt give a shit about Thunder Wave. So I dont think it really matters to always 2hko without Rocks up, as Rocks are mentioned in teammates suggestions.

Lileep can be easily set up on. I honestly don't know why you would need to 2hko it, as it can literally do nothing to you while you can sit there and thank your opponent for allowing you to get to +4, possibly +6 if they play stupid.

Pawniard is mentioned in the Teammates section, and commonly beats Misdreavus (though I suppose I can add in a Pursuit Trapper). A +2 Shadow Ball does a minimum of 75% to 0/36 Eviolite Misdreavus, 70% to 36/0 Evioite Misdreavus, does a minimum of 95% to 36/0 BJ Misdreavus, so it OHKOes with Rocks or any Prior damage, and always does 100%+ to 0/36 Misdreavus. Often Misdreavus will be swiching in on stuff like Sludge Bomb or U-turn or have its item Knocked Off anyway, so prior damage is super easy to get. The KO is already guaranteed to kill 0/36 BJ Missy, and always beats HP Fighting Misdreavus (because the spread is always 240/240+).

Spritzee is always koed by +2 Sludge Bomb with Rocks up. Sludge Bomb does a minimum of 88.8% to the bulkiest of sets.
+2 108 SpA Croagunk Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 24-30 (88.8 - 111.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Rocks does around 3 damage, as Spritzee is 27 HP. The minimum hit Croagunk gets is 26 HP. So IDK what you mean about OHKOing Spritzee.

LOL Omanyte. Im sorry, it doesnt beat Omanyte but then again, Omanyte is garbage anyway. Croagunk does a max of 90% to Eviolite 0/76 Omanyte with +2 Vaccuum Wave. Omanyte has a 50% chance to KO with 196 Earth Power, although if Gunk carries Eviolite you live and win with Sludge Bomb+ Vaccuum Wave.
 
ok well the way you phrase it (specifically including 'slashing x over x') sounds to me like fake out would be the first choice. SORRY. English isnt my first language, and no need to be so final. It would have been much easier to simply say "remove the physical attacker set and slash fake out." But again, no need to give ultimatums.
After clarifying 3 times I feel like the only reasonable thing to do is give ultimatums. I'm sorry if it offends you but how do you think it looks to me? QCing stops being fun when you have to go in circles and constantly make a point.

There are no "extra HP" EVs. Those are the standard. They are on the Mixed Utility (1st set) set. That was the set before, that Rowan came up with, so I just left it alone. The Speed EVs are in the description, which i so helpfully quoted again for you. I have also explained the EVs at least 3 times on IRC. The Speed beats minimum speed Vullaby alloing for the 2hko with Rocks up.
+2 108 SpA Croagunk Sludge Bomb vs. 236 HP / 236+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 12-15 (46.1 - 57.6%) -- 51.2% chance to 2HKO
By default it outspeeds Spritzee and Honedge.

Croagunk already 2hkoes 236 / 156 Porygon with rocks up anyway, and the only thing bulkier would be 236 / 236+ which is lol.
+2 108 SpA Croagunk Sludge Bomb vs. 236 HP / 156+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 12-15 (46.1 - 57.6%) -- 51.2% chance to 2HKO

whereas triattack 2hkoes, meaning that Berry Juice will activate bar a crit. And with Vaccuum Wave it doesnt give a shit about Thunder Wave. So I dont think it really matters to always 2hko without Rocks up, as Rocks are mentioned in teammates suggestions.

Lileep can be easily set up on. I honestly don't know why you would need to 2hko it, as it can literally do nothing to you while you can sit there and thank your opponent for allowing you to get to +4, possibly +6 if they play stupid.

Pawniard is mentioned in the Teammates section, and commonly beats Misdreavus (though I suppose I can add in a Pursuit Trapper). A +2 Shadow Ball does a minimum of 75% to 0/36 Eviolite Misdreavus, 70% to 36/0 Evioite Misdreavus, does a minimum of 95% to 36/0 BJ Misdreavus, so it OHKOes with Rocks or any Prior damage, and always does 100%+ to 0/36 Misdreavus. Often Misdreavus will be swiching in on stuff like Sludge Bomb or U-turn or have its item Knocked Off anyway, so prior damage is super easy to get. The KO is already guaranteed to kill 0/36 BJ Missy, and always beats HP Fighting Misdreavus (because the spread is always 240/240+).

Spritzee is always koed by +2 Sludge Bomb with Rocks up. Sludge Bomb does a minimum of 88.8% to the bulkiest of sets.
+2 108 SpA Croagunk Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Spritzee: 24-30 (88.8 - 111.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Rocks does around 3 damage, as Spritzee is 27 HP. The minimum hit Croagunk gets is 26 HP. So IDK what you mean about OHKOing Spritzee.

LOL Omanyte. Im sorry, it doesnt beat Omanyte but then again, Omanyte is garbage anyway. Croagunk does a max of 90% to Eviolite 0/76 Omanyte with +2 Vaccuum Wave. Omanyte has a 50% chance to KO with 196 Earth Power, although if Gunk carries Eviolite you live and win with Sludge Bomb+ Vaccuum Wave.
The past few times I asked for an explanation of the EV spread for the mixed set, I countered with the downsides (Speed being one, power being another other) ......but I digress.

The "extra" hp and speed is, what I'm referring to, as taken away from SpA. Maybe I should have said "additional" at this point, but whatever. The Speed as listed in the analysis doesn't really make any sense. 1) good vullaby run at least 14 speed to outpace min Speed Mienfoo, 2) Honedge usually hits 10 or 11 (or is Automized which is faster anyway) 3) Spritzee hits 9. In all of those cases, 12 Speed is as good as 13 Speed. The extra SpA is more relevant for any sweeping set, extra damage is never a bad thing where as extra Speed gives nothing. Also, Lileep usually runs HP Fire or Earth Power.

Sure that spread USUALLY functions well enough without the additional SpA, but its basically trading nothing for something that turns the usually into always. If you can show me enough evidence that the additional HP point is worth more than the additional SpA point would be, I wouldn't mind keeping the EV spread and just changing the nature.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
If for the past times you have asked this question you answered, then why did you ask the question in this thread, instead of simply saying "hey these are the downsides to your ev spread?" but i digress.

This is the analysis for Vullaby, which runs 36 Spe, which hits 13. This is also outdated, and 13 speed is there to "The leftover evs are put in Speed to outspeed uninvested Adamant Meditite." Meaning that any player will read it and go "oh hey Meditite is gone, what do with these EVs?" But that doesnt discount sets with Heat Wave, which IIRC run no speed, and some SpA evs. I go by the standard set, because that is what people will see more. Whether something is "good" is subjective. People will see min or 13 Spe Vullaby the most often, and thats what the spe evs are designed to do. There is absolutely no need to run more SpA, as 108 is more efficient use of bulk versus power. I already provided the most relative calcs, even if it was only in "X does X minimum to X". The SpA EVs do not do anything notable in koing any threats, as Croagunk already beats anything. The only reason to put more attack is if you can't keep Rocks on the field, or if you don't run them, as Rocks turn the 2hkoes and 3hkoes into Ohkoes and 2hkoes. I would be glad to mention that in Set Analysis, but imo the current spread is fine.

Lileep literally never runs Earth Power or Hidden Power Fire. Last month Earth Power was used a total of 5.920% on all Lileep, disregarding that Lileep got a total of 2.91454% usage on all teams last month. (April's isn't out yet but I suspect that neither are used often. Lileep is best used as a Bird Check, and Ancientpower / SR / Recover / Giga Drain is considered the accepted moveset, with moves such as Toxic, Sludge Bomb, Stockpile used in its stead). Hidden Power Fire didn't even show up in the movestats, and was simply lumped into "Other." This is beside the point that neither HP Fire or Earth Power OHKO BJ Gunk with that EV spread, HP Fire doing a total of
0 SpA Lileep Hidden Power Fire vs. 132 HP / 116 SpD Dry Skin Croagunk: 6-8 (26 - 34.7%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO
and Earth Power doing
0 SpA Lileep Earth Power vs. 132 HP / 116 SpD Croagunk: 14-18 (60.8 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Meaning that Lileep is STILL safe to set up on, as Berry Juice will be used, and Lileep won't OHKO bar a crit.

The reason I run more HP is because more SpA is useless. You have to run 80 more EVs in SpA just to hit a jump point, meaning you lose out on some noticeable bulk, plus the speed drop. I will be willing to run Modest over Timid, though to be honest it really doesn't matter if I don't invest in 188 SpA, as the + doesnt get any more koes than 108 does, it simply increases the chances of getting a OHKO or 2hko (so instead of 50% chance to 2hko its 88% chance or w/e). Again though, this doesn't matter as Rocks turns everything into 2hkoes or Ohkoes. The bulk is nice in order to actually live hits. Croagunk forces so many pokemon out with its unique typing, that still being able to switch in on stuff is nice, instead of relying on revenge killing.

Its not that the bulk lives anything that it absolutely needs to. its that theres no reason to invest in SpA anymore, and the bulk is nice.
 
I knew I would regret saying the words "I trust you to do something that makes sense" and that somehow they would be thrown in my face but I'm naive so I did that anyway.

The Beginner's Guide to C&C said:
QUALITY CONTROL

The Quality Control process is when QC members go over analyses and help you fill it with the most, but worthwhile, information possible. Their decisions are to be respected; it takes a great deal of work, devotion, and dedication to become a QC member, as well as extensive metagame knowledge. QC members have a vast knowledge of the metagame, show that they know what they're talking about whenever they post a suggestion to an analysis, and are picked by other QC members. Keep in mind that anyone can put forth QC suggestions in an analysis, which QC members will usually comment on and acknowledge to be added or changed. If you aim to critique a competitive choice in a skeleton, you should probably provide good evidence that what you're adding is viable; replays, damage calculations, and similar data is good for this purpose. <snip>
I'm not sure why this is so complicated. If you don't gather what this excerpt says, it basically says it's my job to question things I don't understand and suggest changes until there's nothing left to change.

I was not even taking this definition to its extreme. I originally just asked for an explanation of the strange EVs (standard EVs aren't necessarily the best for specific circumstances, but they need an explanation to deviate from), gave a suggested change if there was no explanation, and to merge the physical attacker sets and explained in detail why that should happen. The EVs explanation was not convincing at all: "because it outspeeds things (that it would anyway), the same as another set, and it does what your spread does 50% of the time" and you refused to merge the two physical attacker sets.

I don't know why I need to explain why KOing something ~100% of the time is better than ~50% but if there is no important reason why the additional HP EV is required (eg. 1 HP of extra bulk on some Pokemon is the difference between a KO and not a KO), which is what I asked for, then there is only one logical conclusion.

Gains from using 188 SpA Modest (16 SpA):
- Reliably takes out Pokemon it otherwise only does sometimes / increases the chances of KOes.
- Gets certain KOes that 14 SpA doesn't :
1. drops Eviolite Archen into Defeatist with +2 Vacuum Wave
2. 80% chance to OHKO 0/0 Eviolite Mienfoo with +2 Sludge Bomb (vs 6.3% with 14 SpA)
3. Guaranteed OHKO on 76/36 Eviolite Pawniard with Vacuum Wave (vs 6.3% with 14 SpA)
4. Gives a possibility to OHKO Misdreavus with +2 Shadow Ball, guarantees with a Sludge Bomb + +2 Shadow Ball or 2 Stealth Rock switch-ins.
5. KOes 236 / 0 Eviolite Chinchou with Sludge Bomb + Vacuum Wave (vs not with 14 SpA. Cleanly OHKOes the 76 HP / 0 BJ variant which will otherwise heal with Berry Juice.

I could go on but I could have stopped at 1. because the amount of counterpoints are roughly zero. Even if 15 SpA gets some of these KOes, you still want the extra SpA over HP because the point still applies, just less significantly.

Unless you have any counterarguments, I will QC 2/3 this if the sets look like this:

Mixed Utility
########
name: Mixed Utility
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Knock Off / Shadow Ball (Ideally shadow ball is OO but w/e)
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 132 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 108 SpA / 116 SpD
nature: Quiet

Physical Attacker
########
name: Attacking Utility
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
move 4: Bulk Up / Fake Out (/Bulldoze or Earthquake can be mentioned in OO)
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Adamant

Nasty Plot
########
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Shadow Ball / Icy Wind
ability: Dry Skin
item: Berry Juice (/Eviolite can be mentioned in OO if KOes can be avoided)
evs: 52 HP / 116 Def / 188 SpA / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Modest

Honestly though, good work and keep it up. I have no problem explaining myself as long as it's heard after the fact.
 
Last edited:

Rowan

The professor?
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
mention more pokemon it walls in usage tips, set 1. alongside tirtouga list, carvanha and scraggy at least.

in set 2, yeah it's safe to switch into Trubbish, but trubbish just continues to set up spikes and recycles. unless you're running bulk up of course.

other options: bullet punch, substitute, poison touch, work up

3/3
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
mention more pokemon it walls in usage tips, set 1. alongside tirtouga list, carvanha and scraggy at least.

in set 2, yeah it's safe to switch into Trubbish, but trubbish just continues to set up spikes and recycles. unless you're running bulk up of course.

other options: bullet punch, substitute, poison touch, work up

3/3
Done, I will write this up when i get home.
 

TheManlyLadybug

Banned deucer.
AM check (WIP)
Add
Remove
(Comments)

Taken from Corkscrew with permission, a part of the LC QC Project

Overview
########
Croagunk returns for the third generation in a row as an excellent pPokemon. Croagunk functions best as a Pokemon that can check a lot of threats at once, meaning often Croagunk will find a way on a allowing it to fit well on many teams. Croagunk’s typing grants it key resistances to Rock-types, Poison-types, Grass-types, Fighting-types, (RC) and Dark-types, among others. Its ability, (RC) Dry Skin, (RC) allows gives it an immunity to Water-typed moves as well. Croagunk’s resistances allow it to counter and or check a slew of top tier Pokemon, such as Carvahna, Mienfoo, and Tirtouga, among others. Croagunk is the only Fighting-type in the LC tier to be neutral take neutral damage from Fairy-type moves, and it can severely weaken Cottonee and Spritzee, LC’s premier Fairy-types. However, its bulk and attacking stats can be underwhelming at times, often allowing neural neutral attacks to 2hko 2HKO or severely weaken Croagunk.

Mixed Utility
########
name: Mixed Utility
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Knock Off / Shadow Ball
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 132 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 108 SpA / 116 SpD
nature: Quiet

Moves
========

Drain Punch is used as it gives Croagunk a means of recovering health, and it allows Croagunk to beat Rock-, Ice-, and Normal-types with ease. Sludge Bomb. Sludge Bomb is Croagunk’s most powerful move in this set, hitting Fairy-types super-(remove dash)(add space)effectively, making allowing it a good to switch in and KO Spritzee switch-in. Vacuum Wave is useful for picking off faster pokemon such as Carvanha, Bunnelby, and Pawniard, (AC) and for finishing . Vacuum Wave is also useful for picking off faster weakened threats. Knock Off is one of the best moves in the game, and allows Croagunk to pose a threaten to many of its usual switch-(add dash)ins. Alternatively, Shadow Ball can be used if Will-O-Wisp Will-o-Wisp Burns are is a problem, ands it allows Croagunk to check Misdreavus better.

Set Details
========

Equpping an Eviolite gives Croagunk some much needed bulk, and works really well with Drain Punch recovery. The EVs are distributed between the defenses and attack stats in order to be as efficient as possible, although Croagunk has to sacrifice its speed. Dry Skin allows Croagunk to wall Carvahna Carvanha and Tirtouga, as well as and allows it to switching in(remove space)to Chinchou’s Scald and other Water-type moves.

Usage Tips
========

Croagunk should be switching on Pokemon that it can check or counter walls, such as Tirtouga, Carvanha, Scraggy, Mienfoo, and Timburr. It cannot be expected to be a huge threat to opposing teams, as it can be easily worn down if the opponent repeatedly forces it in. Croagunk should be used as a glue Pokemon to stop Pokemon such as Tirtouga from sweeping your team. If Pokemon such as Carvanha or Tirtouga are on the opposing team, it is best to play reservedly conservatively, (RC) and keeping Croagunk healthy so it can check that particular threat ready so the threat cannot set up.

Team Options
========

As it's often used as a glue Pokemon, Croagunk generally offers more to the team than the team can offer to it. It does, however, need good switch-ins to Psychic-, Fire-, Ground-, and Flying-type moves from the likes of Abra, Larvesta, Drilbur, Archen and Fletchling. Rock- and Steel-types make great partners as they resist Flying-type moves. Tirtouga also likes appreciates Croagunk's Knock Off support. Rock- and Water-types can take on the Fire-types that Croagunk hates to face. Slowpoke can handle Ground-(add dash) and Fire-types, making it a good partner. Other Fighting-types such as Mienfoo or Scraggy appreciate Croagunk's ability to cripple common Knock Off Fighting-type switch-ins to Fighting-types with Knock Off and easily as well as being a good switch-in to switch into Fairy-types. Pokemon that commonly carry Wish are that can pass it health is really beneficial, as Croagunk has no recovery outside of Dry Skin and the weak Drain Punch. As such, Spritzee, Lickitung, and Ferroseed make good partners, ands in return, Croagunk can switch into in on Fighting-type moves and Poison-type moves.


Physical Attacker
########
name: Attacking Utility
move 1: Drain Punch
move 2: Gunk Shot / Poison Jab
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: (space)Bulk Up / Fake Out / Sucker Punch
ability: Dry Skin
item: Eviolite
evs: 52 HP / 188 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

Drain Punch is Croagunk's main STAB move, and allows Croagunk to heal itself throughout the match. Drain Punch also checks Scraggy, (AC) and Tirtouga, ands well as Carvanha. Gunk Shot is Croagunk's the strongest attack that Croagunk can offer, and is Croagunk's best move to beats Spritzee and other Fairy-types. Gunk Shot 2hkoes 2HKOes Spritzee more often than not, and in tight situations can be fallen back on for Poison, although a 30% chance is not all that big huge. After losing its Eviolite, Spritzee is OHKOed by Gunk Shot. (unnecessary to mention) Gunk Shot is the best tool against Timburr and Mienfoo. (unnecessary)Knock Off is great for crippling common switch-ins the best support move that Croagunk can offer, (RC) and is also Croagunk's best option against Misdreavus. Bulk Up is used in the last slot in order to boost up against Timburr, (AC) or Trubbish, or any other similar Pokemon that cannot harm Croagunk. Fletchling fails to OHKO Croagunk at full health, (RC) after a boost.(add period), (RC) and tThis can be used to lure Fletchling and a threat out to OHKO it with a +1 Gunk Shot. However, (AC) this is generally a risky plan, and relies heavily on Croagunk being at full health. Fake Out can be used over Bulk Up in order to do damage over time to teams, while Sucker Punch lets Croagunk checks pPokemon like such as Abra or Gastly. Poison Jab can be used over Gunk Shot if accuracy is an issue, (RC) as Gunk Shot only hits 80% of the time.

Set Details
========

36 Speed EVs outspeeds Spritzee, allowing for the possible 2hko 2HKO with Gunk Shot. 36 Speed EVs also outspeeds Honedge, Ferroseed, and Porygon. 188 Attack gives leaves Croagunk as strong as possible on the physical side, allowing the firepower needed to achieve certain for multiple 2hkoes 2HKOs and Ohkoes OHKOs, allowing in order for Croagunk to act as a blanket check to troublesome pokemon. The remainder is thrown into HP and the Defenses to give Croagunk some needed bulk, and allows Croagunk to survive 2 Moonblasts from Spritzee such as not being 2hkoed by Spritzee's Moonblast. Eviolite boosts its defenses even further, and is more beneficial than something like say, a Life Orb. Life Orb fails to achieve ko any extra 2HKOs or OHKOs on significant threats.

Usage Tips
========

Croagunk should be switching in on walls and threats that cannot really harm it, such as Timburr, (AC) Mienfoo, Tirtouga, Carvanha, Cottonee, (AC) or Spritzee. Other common pokemon to switch include Mienfoo, Tirtouga, and Carvanha. Croagunk should be used similarly to the Mixed Utility set, in checking a variety of pPokemon. The player should be conservative in using Croagunk should be played conservatively, as it can be used to check a variety of threats to a team. If Pokemon such as Carvanha, Mienfoo, Tirtouga, Timburr, Spritzee, or Cottonee are still alive, keep Croagunk safe in order to revenge kill or check them.

Team Options
========

This set appreciates more support more than the Mixed Utility set. Aromatherapy Spritzee is a great partner, (AC) as Croagunk hates does not like being Bburned. Scraggy is an excellent partner as it appreciates Knock Off support, (RC) as well as and Croagunk's ability to beat Spritzee, Timburr, and Mienfoo. Croagunk does not like Ghost-types all that much, making Dark-types pokemon such as Pawniard and Vullaby good partners. Croagunk needs appreciates a teammates that can switch into Ground-type moves Earthquakes, as Pokemon such as Drilbur can easily switch in on a move like Fake Out or Gunk Shot. Fletchling forces Croagunk out, so Archen or Chinchou make great partners, (AC) as they can check Fletchling, (AC) who OHKOes Croagunk without a Defense boost.

Nasty Plot Wallbreaker
########
name: Nasty Plot Wallbreaker
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Vacuum Wave
move 4: Shadow Ball / Icy Wind
ability: Dry Skin
item: Berry Juice
evs: 52 HP / 116 Def / 188 SpA / 116 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

Nasty Plot is the boostsing move of this set Croagunk's Special Attack to great heights, and allowings Croagunk to punch holes through common Pokemon. Sludge Bomb helps to OHKOes Spritzee, 2hko 2HKOes Vullaby, and 2hko 2HKOes Timburr, (RC) all at +2. Porygon is also 2hkoed 2HKOed at +2, as are other, more stall based Pokemon, such as Lileep. Vacuum Wave forces Pawniard out, and helps to checks Pokemon such as Tirtouga or Carvanha. It is also Croagunk's second best special Fighting-type move, only beaten by Focus Blast in power outage. Shadow Ball can be used to often OHKOes Berry Juice Misdreavus most of the time, and is Croagunk's best option against Gastly. Icy Wind can be used in the last slot if you want to be able to slow a potential check / counter, allowing for easier setup. Icy Wind also helps to support teammates that might theoretically check a threat, but are too slow to do so.


Set Details
========

The EVs are optimized to OHKO and 2hko threats to team members after a boost, such as Vullaby or Timburr. A +2 Sludge Bomb 2hkoes Vullaby and can often OHKO Spritzee, allowing Fighting-type teammates the ability to sweep unimpeded. 36 Spe allows Croagunk to outspeed minimum speed Spritzee, allowing for the 2hko without a boost. Berry Juice is preferred over Eviolite as Nasty Plot Croagunk has no option to heal, and the added bulk is not as needed.

Usage Tips
========

Croagunk can set up on common pokemon such as Chinchou, Trubbish, and most Fighting-types, specifically Timburr or Mienfoo. One of the best and easiest ways to set up is to abuse Croagunk's excellent typing and slew of resistances. Forcing pokemon such as Cottonee or Pawniard out is ideal. Croagunk can also come in on Pawniard and Tirtouga, two big offensive threats, and either set up or straight KO. In a pinch, Croagunk can also perform as a glue, like the Mixed Utility set, but it is outclassed by the aforementioned set, and the lack of bulk really hurts Croagunk.

Team Options
===========

Something that can beat Drilbur is also an excellent teammate, as Croagunk cannot beat Drilbur except on the predicted switch with Icy Wind. Pokemon that hate Timburr / Vullaby / Spritzee make good teammates with Croagunk, as Croagunk can eliminate them to sweep. This means pokemon such as Scraggy or Pawniard make great teammates. A good switchin to Fletchling is always needed, making Archen a good teammate. Croagunk speed ties with minimum speed Fletchling, and only has a slim chance to KO with Vaccuum Wave while rocks are up. Something with Stealth Rock support is an ideal teammate, as some of the Pokemon Croagunk can check are KOed much easier with Stealth Rocks up, such as Vullaby and Berry Juice Misdreavus.

Other Options
##########

Fake out is an option, but it is quite weak, and most of the time Croagunk has more important moves to use. Rock Slide can hit incoming Flying- and Fire-types, particularly Larvesta. Earthquake can also hit Fire-types and is more useful for Ponyta than Rock Slide is. Ice Punch hits Flying- and Ground-types super-effectively, who often switch in to Croagunk. Sludge Bomb can be used on the Physical Utility set in order to 2hko Physically Defensive Spritzee. Icy Wind or Bulldoze can be used on the Nasty Plot or Bulk Up sets correspondingly in order to have a safer way to set up, by forcing a switch. A Substitute + Focus Punch set can be used, or even just Substitute. Bullet Punch can be used as a safer option to Sucker Punch but is largely outclassed by Vacuum Wave. Poison Touch can be used as an alternate ability, if you want to feign Dry Skin. The Poison chance helps to weaken switchins as well. A Work Up set can also be used if used on teams that can make up for Croagunk's Speed issues.

Checks & Counters
########

**Poison-types**: Poison-types such as Koffing or Grimer can easily switch in on Croagunk, resisting both STABs as well as Grimer not losing their item from Knock Off. Koffing can burn Croagunk, while Grimer can hit hard with a Fire Punch.

**Psychic-types**: Psychic-types such as Slowpoke make great counters to Croagunk, hitting it with their 4x super-effective STAB. Abra is a nice check as well, although has to be wary of switching in as Knock Off followed by a Vaccuum Wave koes it. Abra in particular is a problem, as Abra is often holding a Focus Sash, and can stop Croagunk from attempting a sweep.

**Ground-types**: Hippopotas and Drilbur can easily switch in and immediately threaten Croagunk. Diglett struggles to switch in, but can easily trap and KO Croagunk.

**Flying-types**: Fletchling can outspeed and beat Croagunk with its STAB. Vullaby, Mantyke and Archen also make excellent switch-ins, as none of them fear anything Croagunk has to offer aside from a possible Poison from Sludge Bomb.

**Ghost-types**: Ghost-types resist Croagunk's STAB attacks and can usually threaten it with a burn. Most cannot switch in directly, as a Knock Off is crippling.

**Fire-types**: Fire-types hit Croagunk hard due to Dry Skin. Larvesta and Ponyta threaten with a burn, and the former resists Fighting-types moves. Vulpix is also a problem as the Drought hurts Croagunk, and Croagunk can do nothing to it in return.
 
Last edited:
sorry if this is a bit late but this needs to be reworded:
Sludge Bomb is Croagunk’s most powerful move in this set, hitting Fairy-types super-effectively, making it a good Spritzee switch-in.
I might have understated it a bit in the skeleton but this isn't exactly true for the top set since it's 50/50, both have 9 Speed and Spritzee actually wins more than 50% of the time, I believe, due to Moonblast's -SpA chance. The other sets do though.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top