Yep. As per the quote at the top of the D-rank, "Reminder that these Pokemon are only Ubers by tiering and possess no real metagame niche."
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Resource Crown Tundra SS Ubers Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Fc
- Start date
Aight, once again imma do a VR suggestions since i heard a slate was coming up soon-ish, so i wanna throw some out, not too many though since idr have many to give, but I do got some.
B+ to B/B-
This mon isnt that good, it's main niche is its offensive response to kyogre but you just eat a twave and ba bye. no recovery, and while scary it's hard blocked by Lunala, blissey n yveltal fairly well, and while the sub scale shot set isnt bad per say it's wildly inconsistent and hard to pull off right/fit on many teams
B- to B+
Why did this drop last slate tbh, I remember i suggested it before i knew of the CB set but now that i know of it naw put my guy higher. Mon is really strong, and is capable of switching into a good amount of things w its natural bulk. Frankly it's above a good chunk of the things in B rn imo and should go to B+ if not B.
C to B-/B
Had to give it gold for a big ass jump, and a jump it does deserve. This thing is really damn solid, sitting on yveltal so well is insane and it's great nautral bulk lets it blanket check alot of things to a degree, like Zekrom, Etern, Xern, and more. Main reason im not saying B+ is that all of its attacking moves have such low PP and you cant run Iron head on it because it just becomes behemoth bash for some reason, thanks game freak. Absorbing Knock and status so well is just that good.
C to UR
Who is using you besides that one time Skysolo used DD mew and it didnt even kill an yveltal with +1 life orb edge. its supposed to set hazards but its just not good enough at that job and never gets used over like Aero, Froslass or the webs duo to be good at its job. Even without them i'd rather use like... Azelf or something
C- to D
You do literally NOTHING in the current meta. If Lunala didnt exist you might see like C rank but frankly this mon is way too passive, never checks anything well and never gets the battle anywhere. It's budget Lunala, and does a terrible job at doing that. It hits like a wet noodle and checks nothing why would I ever use it.
C- to D
Poor thing, you got quite alot of buffs but no buffs can save you from Eternatus in the S rank. Literally all of its stats are worse than Etern, and yes NP spikes and Fire blast are nice but its just... why not use Eternatus instead, even on HO. Similar power with good bulk and can come in on a good amount of things and is more immediately threatening. Not blown away by priority either.
UR to C-/C
Groudon/Zygod check thats a cleric? Nothing else can really do that like Celebi can. Clerics may be more abundant than before thanks to Caly-G but a check to a mon as dummy broken as Groudon and Zygarde are while doing role compression with tasks that aren't very easy to come by is great. Do i think its a game changer, not really but i do think it's solid enough to deserve a VR spot.
B to A-
DADA NICE WITH IT. this mon is so wildly good and it's no secret, personally I'd put it behind Lunala but ahead of Blissey, I know the new ubersoverlord tier leader Fc04 is a dada superfan so i know he'll like this post, but this mon is a great part of the meta and does alot, checks the grounds in addition to both Zekrom, Kyogre and Caly-G softly? thats insane and nothing does it like the Dada does, it's genuinely a metagame defining role and thus deserves A- to me.
C+ to C+ but a better sprite.
YOU KNOW EAST GASTRODON IS 100X BETTER COME ON NOW, replace that ugly ass pink one for this nice looking blue one. Ya'll know im right.
As for ordered ranks, i just noticed Lunala is behind Blissey and personally i dont agree, A- should imo be Lunala, Zarude, Blissey in that order. Lunala is just a really nice pick and frankly covers alot of mons and makes alot of matchups just way less of a headache. Blissey is good but I'm not as huge on it from its major 4MSS. It's still really good but I feel it's more liable to get melted from Specs kyogre and you'd like a secondary response to it alongside Blissey, atleast to me. I just find Blissey covers less crucial targets less reliably than the other 2.
Also imo, Xerneas should be behind both Ho-oh and Marshadow. That phys def Rest set is trash, it NEVER works and really i'd rather just use Clefable over it nearly every time, or Zamazenta-Crowned and just use another cleric. Geomancy sets suffer from more 4MSS than before, since it doesn't just have that fair empty slot since it didn't need Focus blast, but with Ferrothorn it's a necessity to have now, and tacking in options like Aroma, Ingrain, Sub, Roar, or Psyshock is just not as feasible. Might be a hot take but hey idc.
Also Groudon should be first in A+, mon is actually just insane and tbh i dont think i even need to explain why its so good since i did it in my last one go peep that one on page 3, go check it there. Think that's all I wanted to post so imma go head to bed now, it's like 2:30am.
This mon isnt that good, it's main niche is its offensive response to kyogre but you just eat a twave and ba bye. no recovery, and while scary it's hard blocked by Lunala, blissey n yveltal fairly well, and while the sub scale shot set isnt bad per say it's wildly inconsistent and hard to pull off right/fit on many teams
Why did this drop last slate tbh, I remember i suggested it before i knew of the CB set but now that i know of it naw put my guy higher. Mon is really strong, and is capable of switching into a good amount of things w its natural bulk. Frankly it's above a good chunk of the things in B rn imo and should go to B+ if not B.
Had to give it gold for a big ass jump, and a jump it does deserve. This thing is really damn solid, sitting on yveltal so well is insane and it's great nautral bulk lets it blanket check alot of things to a degree, like Zekrom, Etern, Xern, and more. Main reason im not saying B+ is that all of its attacking moves have such low PP and you cant run Iron head on it because it just becomes behemoth bash for some reason, thanks game freak. Absorbing Knock and status so well is just that good.
Who is using you besides that one time Skysolo used DD mew and it didnt even kill an yveltal with +1 life orb edge. its supposed to set hazards but its just not good enough at that job and never gets used over like Aero, Froslass or the webs duo to be good at its job. Even without them i'd rather use like... Azelf or something
You do literally NOTHING in the current meta. If Lunala didnt exist you might see like C rank but frankly this mon is way too passive, never checks anything well and never gets the battle anywhere. It's budget Lunala, and does a terrible job at doing that. It hits like a wet noodle and checks nothing why would I ever use it.
Poor thing, you got quite alot of buffs but no buffs can save you from Eternatus in the S rank. Literally all of its stats are worse than Etern, and yes NP spikes and Fire blast are nice but its just... why not use Eternatus instead, even on HO. Similar power with good bulk and can come in on a good amount of things and is more immediately threatening. Not blown away by priority either.
Groudon/Zygod check thats a cleric? Nothing else can really do that like Celebi can. Clerics may be more abundant than before thanks to Caly-G but a check to a mon as dummy broken as Groudon and Zygarde are while doing role compression with tasks that aren't very easy to come by is great. Do i think its a game changer, not really but i do think it's solid enough to deserve a VR spot.
DADA NICE WITH IT. this mon is so wildly good and it's no secret, personally I'd put it behind Lunala but ahead of Blissey, I know the new ubers
YOU KNOW EAST GASTRODON IS 100X BETTER COME ON NOW, replace that ugly ass pink one for this nice looking blue one. Ya'll know im right.
As for ordered ranks, i just noticed Lunala is behind Blissey and personally i dont agree, A- should imo be Lunala, Zarude, Blissey in that order. Lunala is just a really nice pick and frankly covers alot of mons and makes alot of matchups just way less of a headache. Blissey is good but I'm not as huge on it from its major 4MSS. It's still really good but I feel it's more liable to get melted from Specs kyogre and you'd like a secondary response to it alongside Blissey, atleast to me. I just find Blissey covers less crucial targets less reliably than the other 2.
Also imo, Xerneas should be behind both Ho-oh and Marshadow. That phys def Rest set is trash, it NEVER works and really i'd rather just use Clefable over it nearly every time, or Zamazenta-Crowned and just use another cleric. Geomancy sets suffer from more 4MSS than before, since it doesn't just have that fair empty slot since it didn't need Focus blast, but with Ferrothorn it's a necessity to have now, and tacking in options like Aroma, Ingrain, Sub, Roar, or Psyshock is just not as feasible. Might be a hot take but hey idc.
Also Groudon should be first in A+, mon is actually just insane and tbh i dont think i even need to explain why its so good since i did it in my last one go peep that one on page 3, go check it there. Think that's all I wanted to post so imma go head to bed now, it's like 2:30am.
B+ -> A-Being able to counter both Yveltal and Calyrax-S is just too good in this metagame & Tyranitar is able to compress other utility like Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave meaning its not completely useless outside this role. Even though it has some bad match-ups against stuff like Marshadow, Necrozma-D, Kyogre, etc. most of them can't switch into it for free since they take too much from Foul Play or are crippled by Thunder Wave.
B -> B+Urshifu doesn't have much defensive utility but it more than makes up for that with its sheer power. Practically nothing can switch into Wicked Blow and the few things that can switch in either get destroyed by Close Combat or are dealt with by Necrozma-Dusk-Maned. Sucker Punch is also a nice move to pick stuff like Calyrax-S and Marshadow, though it can be exploited easily.
A -> A+Take Urshifu, give it 30 more speed points, a better STAB combo, and a move that ignores Substitutes and steals boost and you've got Marshadow. With Urshifu, you can at least exploit its Speed tier and Sucker Punch. However, no such luxury exist against Marshadow.
C -> C+/B-Magma Storm Heatran is pretty nice since it can trap and remove threats like Blissey and Ferrothorn, making it easier for its partners such as Kyogre to sweep. Its got a nice speed tier, letting it get the jump on certain variants of Necrozma and Groudon, and its typing gives it pretty solid match-ups against Eternatus and non-EQ Dusk-Maned Necrozma. Something really nice about Heatran is that its able to a lot of chip damage to its counters like Kyogre and Zygarde with Magma Storm.
Garrett
Banned deucer.
I'd be interested in dropping Xerneas to the bottom of A or even mid A- as Specially Defense NDM is not as easily pressured as early meta-changed speculation thought. Cores that double down (DD Zekrom to prey on T-Wave + Iron Head stuff, with an offensive Xerneas for example) are usually too Calyrex-Shadow weak to work well.
Marshadow is on the rise when you don't want to run a defensive backup of Ho-oh/Zarude for Calyrex-S. I think Marshadow should go to A+, which I also think logically supports a Buzzwole rise to B+ (alongside its great use against Zarude/Don/Zek rising). Banded Buzzwole is also a serious sleeper threat.
Marshadow is on the rise when you don't want to run a defensive backup of Ho-oh/Zarude for Calyrex-S. I think Marshadow should go to A+, which I also think logically supports a Buzzwole rise to B+ (alongside its great use against Zarude/Don/Zek rising). Banded Buzzwole is also a serious sleeper threat.
New VR Update! We only voted on council and thread nominations this time, you can see the sheet here. In the meantime, Terracotta left the VR council - thanks for your contributions. This VR update was pretty much completed before SCL started but there were a few things we had to iron out - it won't be updated again until SCL concludes and I'm excited to see a huge amount of meta development during that time.
Rises:
Buzzwole B- → B+
Zarude B → A-
Aerodactyl C → B-
Celebi UR → C-
Landorus-Therian B → B+ (there was 1 B, 3 B+ and 3A- which leads to ranking it in B+, the average)
Heatran C → C+
Tapu Bulu UR → C-
Drops:
Ho-Oh A → A-
Xerneas A → A-
Naganadel C- → D
Lugia C- → D
Palkia B+ → B
Mew C → C-
Rejected Noms:
Zygarde A+ → A
Ferrothorn A → A-
Blissey A → A-
Mewtwo B → B+
Rayquaza B → B+
Tyranitar B+ → A-
Zamazenta-Crowned C → B-
Dracovish B → B-
Urshifu B → B+
Marsh A → A+
Rises:
Buzzwole B- → B+
Zarude B → A-
Aerodactyl C → B-
Celebi UR → C-
Landorus-Therian B → B+ (there was 1 B, 3 B+ and 3A- which leads to ranking it in B+, the average)
Heatran C → C+
Tapu Bulu UR → C-
Drops:
Ho-Oh A → A-
Xerneas A → A-
Naganadel C- → D
Lugia C- → D
Palkia B+ → B
Mew C → C-
Rejected Noms:
Zygarde A+ → A
Ferrothorn A → A-
Blissey A → A-
Mewtwo B → B+
Rayquaza B → B+
Tyranitar B+ → A-
Zamazenta-Crowned C → B-
Dracovish B → B-
Urshifu B → B+
Marsh A → A+
Rankings
Ranks A- and above, are ordered internally from most to least viable. Note that D Rank is reserved for Pokemon that are Ubers by tiering yet have no niche in the metagame — they are only in the Viability Rankings because we are obligated to put them there.
S Rank
Yveltal
Eternatus
Calyrex-Shadow
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
A Rank
A+
Groudon
Kyogre
Zygarde-Complete
Zekrom
A
Marshadow
Ferrothorn
A-
Ho-Oh
Xerneas
Blissey
Lunala
Zarude
Reminder that Pokemon below A Rank are no longer ordered by Viability within their subranks.
B Rank
B+
Buzzwole
Calyrex-Ice
Excadrill
Landorus-Therian
Tyranitar
B
Darmanitan-Galar
Dialga
Dracovish
Giratina-Origin
Landorus-Incarnate
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Slurpuff
Urshifu Single-Strike
B-
Aerodactyl
Ditto
Froslass
Giratina-Altered
Tangrowth
C Rank
C+
Chansey
Clefable
Grimmsnarl
Galvantula
Gastrodon
Heatran
Magnezone
Kyurem-White
Pheromosa
Reshiram
Regieleki
Shuckle
Skarmory
Suicune
Toxapex
C
Cloyster
Dugtrio
Garchomp
Hydreigon
Kyurem-Black
Magearna
Porygon2
Shedinja
Weavile
Zamazenta-Crowned
C-
Amoonguss
Corviknight
Celebi
Mew
Solgaleo
Tapu-Bulu
Thundurus-Therian
Xatu
D Rank
A reminder that these Pokemon are only Ubers by tiering and possess no real metagame niche.
Cinderace
Genesect
Lugia
Naganadel
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Spectrier
Zamazenta-Hero
Ranks A- and above, are ordered internally from most to least viable. Note that D Rank is reserved for Pokemon that are Ubers by tiering yet have no niche in the metagame — they are only in the Viability Rankings because we are obligated to put them there.
S Rank
A Rank
A+
A
A-
Reminder that Pokemon below A Rank are no longer ordered by Viability within their subranks.
B Rank
B+
B
B-
C Rank
C+
C
C-
D Rank
A reminder that these Pokemon are only Ubers by tiering and possess no real metagame niche.
Last edited:
Reasonings for the shifts :o
Rises:
B- → B+
Buzzwole honestly unfairly dropped, with it assumed to just be irrelevant in the meta when Groudons started running Overheat and Zacian-C was gone. It still is able to check a lot of threats like non fire move Groudon, Zygarde, Marshadow, Urshifu, Dusk Mane, Yveltal and Zarude, etc. Offensive sets also saw their come up right after it dropped, leading to it to just jump right back up to above the heights it was previously at.
B → A-
Zarude had only been on the rise until the point of the voting, and although it might have possibly hit its peak, Zarude is still a very solid pick. Phys.Def sets added another good option to its kit, and BU Sp.def sets are still as good as ever at being a huge annoyance and soft checking a ton of the metagame. Pokemon like Groudon do tech coverage for it decently often which makes it far less effective, but it still is able to pressure defensive teams and be a solid wincon while checking Zygarde, NDM, Kyogre, Groudon, etc.
C → B-
Being the fastest Taunt lead has some really good benefits, and Aero is almost always able to get rocks up unless it faces something like Excadrill. It can 50/50 Slurpuff with Taunt and Rock Tomb and also has Tailwind support, so it's one of the more reliable SR leads out there as it can attempt to beat all the others with its Speed.
UR → C-
Celebi is very niche, but being a Grass-type means it can switch into Groudon and Zygarde. Natural Cure makes it even better against Sub DD Toxic Zygarde, but Fire coverage on Groudon destroys it. Another benefit is Heal Bell, as cleric support is super important in this tier. That can free up teammates like Calyrex-S to run Trick + NP instead of Aromatherapy, or just be an incredible support move in longer games.
B → B+
For the 5th Ground immune / resisted Pokemon rise in a row, Landorus-T has picked up a lot due to its role compression and Intimidate with its typing. It checks Groudon, Zekrom, and NDM while also having Stealth Rock and a relatively slow pivoting option with U-turn. Lando does the same thing always pretty much, be a fat pivot into opposing grounds and sets rocks. More offensive sets are underexplored but can also exist, just not nearly to the same effectiveness as the defensive pivot sets.
C → C+
Alternatively, Heatran rose a bit as a quad weak to Ground Pokemon for its own solid traits. Walling Eternatus is really solid, and it has good support with Stealth Rock as well. Magma Storm is the main draw of course though, as trapping so many things can lead to open holes for wincons like Kyogre if Blissey is trapped, Calyrex-S if Yveltal or Ho-Oh has to pivot in and eat chip + a Toxic, and other things. It also threatens Ferrothorn which is incredible right now, and having a hard to wall offensive presence with all that is fairly solid currently.
UR → C-
Tapu Bulu rounds out the ground resists that rose, being another ground answer but with a small niche trait that sets it apart. Grassy Terrain can make games go on forever, and some stallier builds really appreciate what it does for them. It can be a double edged sword as the opponent can abuse it also, but Tapu Bulu has something going for it that gives it the tiniest of niches currently. Support like Whirlwind and Leech Seed is also annoying to play against.
Drops:
A → A-
A → A-
Both Pokemon fell off a bit, but for different reasons. Ho-Oh sometimes struggles to keep up with the top Pokemon like Groudon, Zygarde, Kyogre, and Zekrom which can apply a ton of pressure while it sits there and is decently passive. Its walling capabilities are still incredible of course so a raise in the future wouldn't be surprising, but for now it drops from just being overwhelmed in a lot of scenarios. Geomancy Xerneas has probably never been worse than now, with Sp.Def NDM being usable now so it has a hard counter. Not to mention Scarf Calyrex-S outspeeding it even if it does manage to break, meaning the most common revenge killer can pick it off even with a speed boost which wasn't always possible in previous gens. Defensive is still alright, being a cleric with good resists to Dark Fighting and Dragon, but it too can be overwhelmed because it relies on Rest, so it drops a rank.
C- → D
Bad mon, super reliant on always being +2 and Life Orb to break, hardly sets up on anything since it dies to most hits etc etc. It's strong for sure but also Eternatus exists
C- → D
Bad mon, super reliant at always being at full health, loses to quite a few common sets of mons it's supposed to wall like Toxic Zyg, can't touch steels or etern, etc etc. It's fat for sure but also Lunala and Giratina exist
B+ → B
Palkia is just average at everything it does. Prediction and poor accuracy reliant for breaking, flimsy Kyogre check, and struggles to get breaking opportunities as it's slower than things like Eternatus. Not horrible but it's likely only going down as it's way less consistent than other Pokemon like Eternatus.
C → C-
Mew is just a mediocre hazard setter, competes with the faster Froslass for Spikes as well as Cloyster who can spin and actually hit things after a Shell Smash. Not unviable but it's at a new low as a hazard setter.
Rejected noms are self explanatory, the majority vote of the council just didn't think the mon was good / bad enough to rise / drop. Individual people's votes can be found in the sheet Ice linked.
Anyway, a few of my own noms post this update because with SCL the meta is changing a lot and I voted against a few of these changes:
--> S-
Groudon is so ridiculously good that I think it deserves the creation of an S- rank. Either Calyrex-S or Necrozma-DM could join it imo, but it's clearly proven to be one of the metas most defining Pokemon by a large bit.
--> B+
Good mon, fast, strong, ice is an incredible offensive typing physically with sp.def ndm, U-turn, and good coverage. It has a ton of tools and probably is better than things like Excadrill already in B+.
--> C+
I'm not super high on these mons, as I feel like Webs and Screens are just more reliable as HO teams compared to damaging hazard leads. There's also a massive amount of competition for the role anyway and I don't think they're too much higher than the others that can do this.
--> C+ at least, B preferred
Take 2, this mon is good. Its bulk is insane and it has solid resistances while walling the big 3 defensive core if they aren't fully offensive. Howl makes up for it being insanely weak, and it can be a good cleaner in the right circumstances because it's one of the hardest Pokemon to revenge kill. Great in long games too because of a quad rocks resistance and Rest, making it a good status absorber too. I'm really sold on the mon and I think it deserves at least some sort of rise in the next shift.
--> A / A-
Groudon being broken makes this thing worse, even if NDM doesn't use phys.def much at all anymore. It's still a good breaker, but it still is decently easy to abuse and its speed leaves it open to being pressured by even things like Yveltal clicking Foul Play and fast U-turning out.
Rises:
B- → B+Buzzwole honestly unfairly dropped, with it assumed to just be irrelevant in the meta when Groudons started running Overheat and Zacian-C was gone. It still is able to check a lot of threats like non fire move Groudon, Zygarde, Marshadow, Urshifu, Dusk Mane, Yveltal and Zarude, etc. Offensive sets also saw their come up right after it dropped, leading to it to just jump right back up to above the heights it was previously at.
B → A- Zarude had only been on the rise until the point of the voting, and although it might have possibly hit its peak, Zarude is still a very solid pick. Phys.Def sets added another good option to its kit, and BU Sp.def sets are still as good as ever at being a huge annoyance and soft checking a ton of the metagame. Pokemon like Groudon do tech coverage for it decently often which makes it far less effective, but it still is able to pressure defensive teams and be a solid wincon while checking Zygarde, NDM, Kyogre, Groudon, etc.
C → B-Being the fastest Taunt lead has some really good benefits, and Aero is almost always able to get rocks up unless it faces something like Excadrill. It can 50/50 Slurpuff with Taunt and Rock Tomb and also has Tailwind support, so it's one of the more reliable SR leads out there as it can attempt to beat all the others with its Speed.
UR → C-Celebi is very niche, but being a Grass-type means it can switch into Groudon and Zygarde. Natural Cure makes it even better against Sub DD Toxic Zygarde, but Fire coverage on Groudon destroys it. Another benefit is Heal Bell, as cleric support is super important in this tier. That can free up teammates like Calyrex-S to run Trick + NP instead of Aromatherapy, or just be an incredible support move in longer games.
B → B+For the 5th Ground immune / resisted Pokemon rise in a row, Landorus-T has picked up a lot due to its role compression and Intimidate with its typing. It checks Groudon, Zekrom, and NDM while also having Stealth Rock and a relatively slow pivoting option with U-turn. Lando does the same thing always pretty much, be a fat pivot into opposing grounds and sets rocks. More offensive sets are underexplored but can also exist, just not nearly to the same effectiveness as the defensive pivot sets.
C → C+Alternatively, Heatran rose a bit as a quad weak to Ground Pokemon for its own solid traits. Walling Eternatus is really solid, and it has good support with Stealth Rock as well. Magma Storm is the main draw of course though, as trapping so many things can lead to open holes for wincons like Kyogre if Blissey is trapped, Calyrex-S if Yveltal or Ho-Oh has to pivot in and eat chip + a Toxic, and other things. It also threatens Ferrothorn which is incredible right now, and having a hard to wall offensive presence with all that is fairly solid currently.
UR → C-Tapu Bulu rounds out the ground resists that rose, being another ground answer but with a small niche trait that sets it apart. Grassy Terrain can make games go on forever, and some stallier builds really appreciate what it does for them. It can be a double edged sword as the opponent can abuse it also, but Tapu Bulu has something going for it that gives it the tiniest of niches currently. Support like Whirlwind and Leech Seed is also annoying to play against.
Drops:
A → A- A → A- Both Pokemon fell off a bit, but for different reasons. Ho-Oh sometimes struggles to keep up with the top Pokemon like Groudon, Zygarde, Kyogre, and Zekrom which can apply a ton of pressure while it sits there and is decently passive. Its walling capabilities are still incredible of course so a raise in the future wouldn't be surprising, but for now it drops from just being overwhelmed in a lot of scenarios. Geomancy Xerneas has probably never been worse than now, with Sp.Def NDM being usable now so it has a hard counter. Not to mention Scarf Calyrex-S outspeeding it even if it does manage to break, meaning the most common revenge killer can pick it off even with a speed boost which wasn't always possible in previous gens. Defensive is still alright, being a cleric with good resists to Dark Fighting and Dragon, but it too can be overwhelmed because it relies on Rest, so it drops a rank.
C- → DBad mon, super reliant on always being +2 and Life Orb to break, hardly sets up on anything since it dies to most hits etc etc. It's strong for sure but also Eternatus exists
C- → DBad mon, super reliant at always being at full health, loses to quite a few common sets of mons it's supposed to wall like Toxic Zyg, can't touch steels or etern, etc etc. It's fat for sure but also Lunala and Giratina exist
B+ → BPalkia is just average at everything it does. Prediction and poor accuracy reliant for breaking, flimsy Kyogre check, and struggles to get breaking opportunities as it's slower than things like Eternatus. Not horrible but it's likely only going down as it's way less consistent than other Pokemon like Eternatus.
C → C-Mew is just a mediocre hazard setter, competes with the faster Froslass for Spikes as well as Cloyster who can spin and actually hit things after a Shell Smash. Not unviable but it's at a new low as a hazard setter.
Rejected noms are self explanatory, the majority vote of the council just didn't think the mon was good / bad enough to rise / drop. Individual people's votes can be found in the sheet Ice linked.
Anyway, a few of my own noms post this update because with SCL the meta is changing a lot and I voted against a few of these changes:
--> S-Groudon is so ridiculously good that I think it deserves the creation of an S- rank. Either Calyrex-S or Necrozma-DM could join it imo, but it's clearly proven to be one of the metas most defining Pokemon by a large bit.
--> B+Good mon, fast, strong, ice is an incredible offensive typing physically with sp.def ndm, U-turn, and good coverage. It has a ton of tools and probably is better than things like Excadrill already in B+.
--> C+I'm not super high on these mons, as I feel like Webs and Screens are just more reliable as HO teams compared to damaging hazard leads. There's also a massive amount of competition for the role anyway and I don't think they're too much higher than the others that can do this.
--> C+ at least, B preferredTake 2, this mon is good. Its bulk is insane and it has solid resistances while walling the big 3 defensive core if they aren't fully offensive. Howl makes up for it being insanely weak, and it can be a good cleaner in the right circumstances because it's one of the hardest Pokemon to revenge kill. Great in long games too because of a quad rocks resistance and Rest, making it a good status absorber too. I'm really sold on the mon and I think it deserves at least some sort of rise in the next shift.
--> A / A-Groudon being broken makes this thing worse, even if NDM doesn't use phys.def much at all anymore. It's still a good breaker, but it still is decently easy to abuse and its speed leaves it open to being pressured by even things like Yveltal clicking Foul Play and fast U-turning out.
Katy
Banned deucer.
I second this nom! This is by far one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier with insane breaking but also supportive power being able to net in kills is insane and should definitely see a rise in S-, as I think it made its way up to be one of the top uber Pokemon in a very short timeframe. This is only reflected by SCL usage and how dangerous it performed in a lot of those games, to name one or two games: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-578579 SoulWind vs Manaphy Week 1
Groudon is so ridiculously good that I think it deserves the creation of an S- rank. Either Calyrex-S or Necrozma-DM could join it imo, but it's clearly proven to be one of the metas most defining Pokemon by a large bit.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ubers-578265 Exiline vs MDragon Week 1
Groudon should have S- rank, as it is clearly one of the most dominating factors in the Ubers metagame.
Moreover with groudon being so relevant and on a plethora of teams, I also second Zekroms drop 1 subrank!
Groudon's versality is one of the best in Ubers, if not the best. It's gets STAB on arguably the best offensive typing in the game, which is rounded off with Stone Edge as coverage. It can be a tank with Bulk Up, setup sweeper with double dance, spread rocks or be a mixed attacker with Heat Crash/Overheat (hello Buzzwole and Zarude). The only semi reliable Groudon counter (if Groudon hasn't setup) is Zygarde. I don't find it broken but it's definitely deserving of S- rank in VR.
Groudon should be C Rank imo,this mon cant do shit in this meta,lots of mons like landot bulu can wall him to death
yveltal to C- or D rank,its a OU tier pokemon,without dynamax,fairy type can totally destroy it
Red Raven
I COULD BE BANNED!
While we're on it, let's just drop the ghost horseman to D ranks, maybe even ou. This mon sucks anyway and it literally only has two attacking moves. Who the hell would ever use this in the first place? Its typing even leaves it completely vulnerable to being pursuit trapped by Tyranitar and Marshadow. Oh wait...
On a more serious note, I would also agree with the nom to rise. It's such a useful pokemon as a wall breaker and its stealth rock resistance affords it a freedom of item choice. With lum, it can completely go one on one against Zygarde and beat it and conventional physical checks such as Buzzwall and Tangrowth get burned by overheat, not to mention that it completely rips apart the unholy trinity of ubers in Necrozma, Eternatus and Yveltal with an sd set
On a more serious note, I would also agree with the nom to rise
. It's such a useful pokemon as a wall breaker and its stealth rock resistance affords it a freedom of item choice. With lum, it can completely go one on one against Zygarde and beat it and conventional physical checks such as Buzzwall and Tangrowth get burned by overheat, not to mention that it completely rips apart the unholy trinity of ubers in Necrozma, Eternatus and Yveltal with an sd set
Long time lurker here. I'd like to give my two cents on some Pokemon that deserve rises.
C+ to B-
I've been playing a lot with Heatran before the VR Changes and it does a really good job. Having a hard wall for Eternatus is nice and it has the ability to 1v1 and remove it. There are the Meteor Beam sets, but Heatran is capable to beat even those sets with Protect and Protect also helps against Choiced Attackers like Kyogre, Calyrex-S and Ho-Oh. It has a few flaws like meh bulk for Ubers, being chased out by many common Pokemon and Pressure on Eternatus doesn't make it that easy to 1v1 it. However other than that, it is worthy of B- imo.
C to C+/B-
Fc inspired me to use this Pokemon and it does a good job. Checking Yveltal is really nice, plus it is able to check Pokemon like Necrozma-DM, Zekrom and Zarude. It has issues as a Steel-type though. It can't check Xerneas, due to its Fighting-type, and therefore you will need a different check for it and while it checks some great Pokemon, other great Pokemon like Kyogre, Eternatus, Groudon and Zygarde chase it out. There is also the lack of recovery and the fact that it is set-up reliant to dish out meaningful damage, but it is still a good check to Yveltal and some other Pokemon.
A+ to S-
I won't be the 100th person to explain why Groudon is worthy of the S- rank. All of the above (except the troll) already explained why Groudon should rise, so please refer to their posts.
C+ to B-I've been playing a lot with Heatran before the VR Changes and it does a really good job. Having a hard wall for Eternatus is nice and it has the ability to 1v1 and remove it. There are the Meteor Beam sets, but Heatran is capable to beat even those sets with Protect and Protect also helps against Choiced Attackers like Kyogre, Calyrex-S and Ho-Oh. It has a few flaws like meh bulk for Ubers, being chased out by many common Pokemon and Pressure on Eternatus doesn't make it that easy to 1v1 it. However other than that, it is worthy of B- imo.
C to C+/B-Fc inspired me to use this Pokemon and it does a good job. Checking Yveltal is really nice, plus it is able to check Pokemon like Necrozma-DM, Zekrom and Zarude. It has issues as a Steel-type though. It can't check Xerneas, due to its Fighting-type, and therefore you will need a different check for it and while it checks some great Pokemon, other great Pokemon like Kyogre, Eternatus, Groudon and Zygarde chase it out. There is also the lack of recovery and the fact that it is set-up reliant to dish out meaningful damage, but it is still a good check to Yveltal and some other Pokemon.
A+ to S-I won't be the 100th person to explain why Groudon is worthy of the S- rank. All of the above (except the troll) already explained why Groudon should rise, so please refer to their posts.
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I think there should be a new voting really soon, cause the current VR doesnt represent the current meta at all. I know it takes a long time to do the voting and compile everything (as i hosted a VR myself), but it just doesnt feel right to have the VR completely detached from the meta. Here's what i believe should change:
BIG WINNERS OF NECROZMA-DM DROPPING PHYSICAL DEFENSIVE SETS
All of those 3 i feel like are currently way too low from where they should be. Calyrex-Ice being able to use Choice Band sets more reliably its amazing for it, since a lot of Necrozmas were being given speed to outspeed the Leech Seed set. Rayquazas Dragon Ascent is almost impossible to reliably switch into, and one wrong prediction with your NDM and its gone by V-Create. Darmanitan-Galar has also been thriving for a while now, Ice-moves are generally hard to switch into, add U-turn and Flare Blitz and every possible check in Lunala and NDM is gone. I think all 3 should be B+, but A- feels more right to me, especially considering in B+ we have...
GROUDON IS BROKEN
Theres really not much to say here, Sand just loses to Groudon, nothing you can do about it. Not only Groudon, but other trends like Landorus-Therian and Buzzwole have been getting more popular, making Sand honestly pretty much impossible to play with. It doesnt deserve to be this high, especially over much better Pokemon. Throw it in like B- for all i care.
Another big loser of Groudon getting popular. Sure, special sets are a thing but it was ranked this highly to begin with cause of its DDance set, and its gotten much worse. Same as for Sand, Buzzwole and Landorus-Therian also getting more usage dont help it at all. Still a good Pokemon, but its not that good anymore. Would probably put it in A- on top of Ho-Oh.
With Groudon being such an amazing wallbreaker with amazing defensive value, i think the creation of S- is more than fair now. You would prob want to throw NDM in there as well, its still an amazing Pokemon but has some downsides that dont put it on the same level of all the other S rank Pokemon, mainly Morning Sun being a shitty recovery.
GENERAL LOSERS OF THE NEW META
If last meta used to be amazing for the Dada, this one is really terrible. Groudon always runs Fire move now, the most used Zygardes are offensive, Specs Calyrex-Ghost does 40% to you and forces you to run Synthesis and lose to status, and the most used breakers have super effective attacks to hit it with. The meta super adapted to Dada getting popular, and while what it offers is nice, its not as valuable in the current meta. Should drop to B/B+.
Palkia is terrible and no one uses it for a reason. Its a bad Kyogre check, its a bad breaker, and its too slow for what it tries to accomplish. It being B is honestly an insult to every mon that is there, and should drop to C+ at the very least.
Think i've said everything i wanted to say, but again please try to get a new voting done asap, the current VR is just hugely misguiding and its a bad look for one of the most used resources by everyone. Thanks for reading.
BIG WINNERS OF NECROZMA-DM DROPPING PHYSICAL DEFENSIVE SETS
All of those 3 i feel like are currently way too low from where they should be. Calyrex-Ice being able to use Choice Band sets more reliably its amazing for it, since a lot of Necrozmas were being given speed to outspeed the Leech Seed set. Rayquazas Dragon Ascent is almost impossible to reliably switch into, and one wrong prediction with your NDM and its gone by V-Create. Darmanitan-Galar has also been thriving for a while now, Ice-moves are generally hard to switch into, add U-turn and Flare Blitz and every possible check in Lunala and NDM is gone. I think all 3 should be B+, but A- feels more right to me, especially considering in B+ we have...
GROUDON IS BROKEN
Theres really not much to say here, Sand just loses to Groudon, nothing you can do about it. Not only Groudon, but other trends like Landorus-Therian and Buzzwole have been getting more popular, making Sand honestly pretty much impossible to play with. It doesnt deserve to be this high, especially over much better Pokemon. Throw it in like B- for all i care.
Another big loser of Groudon getting popular. Sure, special sets are a thing but it was ranked this highly to begin with cause of its DDance set, and its gotten much worse. Same as for Sand, Buzzwole and Landorus-Therian also getting more usage dont help it at all. Still a good Pokemon, but its not that good anymore. Would probably put it in A- on top of Ho-Oh.
With Groudon being such an amazing wallbreaker with amazing defensive value, i think the creation of S- is more than fair now. You would prob want to throw NDM in there as well, its still an amazing Pokemon but has some downsides that dont put it on the same level of all the other S rank Pokemon, mainly Morning Sun being a shitty recovery.
GENERAL LOSERS OF THE NEW META
If last meta used to be amazing for the Dada, this one is really terrible. Groudon always runs Fire move now, the most used Zygardes are offensive, Specs Calyrex-Ghost does 40% to you and forces you to run Synthesis and lose to status, and the most used breakers have super effective attacks to hit it with. The meta super adapted to Dada getting popular, and while what it offers is nice, its not as valuable in the current meta. Should drop to B/B+.
Palkia is terrible and no one uses it for a reason. Its a bad Kyogre check, its a bad breaker, and its too slow for what it tries to accomplish. It being B is honestly an insult to every mon that is there, and should drop to C+ at the very least.
Think i've said everything i wanted to say, but again please try to get a new voting done asap, the current VR is just hugely misguiding and its a bad look for one of the most used resources by everyone. Thanks for reading.
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Hello. Not a major change I'd like to suggest but I think it's worth bringing up.
I believe Giratina-A should rise up to B. With a physically defensive set it becomes a defogger that isn't at all threatened by any of the tier's common rockers, not even Tyranitar due to its preference of running Foul Play over invested Crunch. It absolutely dominates NDM, is a relatively safe switch-in to Groudon and is pretty much one of the only mons I ever feel safe switching into Zygarde. Para doesn't bother it too much, you are able to comfortably roar out defensive sets even with a ton of Para Hax, and you can even take on Thousand Waves as Scale Shot tickles Giratina-A outside of 5 Hits + Crits. Dragon Tail variants may still be a concern though along with offensive Outrage sets. Another big point in its favor is how easily it takes on Zamazenta-C who can be a troubling mon for more defensive leaning teams to pressure. There is however some role overlap as I believe Giratina-O has also gotten much better with Groudon's rise in popularity, along side it running Stone Edge less in favor of Fire moves along with Dada falling off a bit.
I think where it really shines though is when you free up a move on it and run a different Defogger. Giratina-A has an incredibly dangerous support movepool, and Pressure is one of the most dangerous abilities in Ubers due to how easily it squanders valuable PP. Being able to fit Toxic/Wisp/Roar/Rest or Protect/Wisp/Roar/Rest can make it much more awkward to pivot around. I've been loving Protect for matchups against Offense especially. Things like Calyrex Ice, Calyrex Shadow, and Marshadow have room for pause when you start threatening to remove their only means of dealing damage. In particular with Calyrex Shadow it allows you to scout for Trick which is invaluable for avoiding Checkmate Scenarios in which Yveltal winds up getting a Choice item. Special Defense investment allows you to easily take on Support Eternatus by running Protect and draining Dynamax Cannon's precious PP and you are still more than an adequate answer to Ho-Oh, Support NDM and can still have enough bulk to endure a +2 Precipice Blades from Adamant Groudon from full. (Not from life orb unfortunately.)
There's still a lot of things I haven't tried with it. Substitute+Protect sounds incredibly infuriating to try to get around, especially with Hazard Support. Hex seems like it could be okay to outright kill NDM after you burn it, as well as discouraging overly eager switch ins to Calyrex Shadow who predict low threat status moves like Wisp.
It still has issues being a relatively passive mon, and matching up terribly against Sticky Web teams with Special Yveltal, Offensive NDM, and Life Orb/Specs Calyrex Shadow. Adding a Ghost Weakness that doesn't kill Calyrex Shadow immediately with Shadow Sneak can be quite difficult to work with as well as desperately needing Cleric support to ensure it can continue taking on threats, but it also partners very well with the Clerics, especially Defensive Xerneas. I think it's better than the other B- mons by a big enough margin to warrant a rise.
Edit: Some Calcs to illustrate the Specially Defensive set I discussed using the spread I've been testing. With Protect this set can potentially run the opponent out of their primary STABs by using Protect then Rest and switching to an appropriate Pivot. The next time Giratina-A faces a lot of these Pokemon they won't be able to break through especially if you position yourself and get an Aromatherapy off.
I believe Giratina-A should rise up to B. With a physically defensive set it becomes a defogger that isn't at all threatened by any of the tier's common rockers, not even Tyranitar due to its preference of running Foul Play over invested Crunch. It absolutely dominates NDM, is a relatively safe switch-in to Groudon and is pretty much one of the only mons I ever feel safe switching into Zygarde. Para doesn't bother it too much, you are able to comfortably roar out defensive sets even with a ton of Para Hax, and you can even take on Thousand Waves as Scale Shot tickles Giratina-A outside of 5 Hits + Crits. Dragon Tail variants may still be a concern though along with offensive Outrage sets. Another big point in its favor is how easily it takes on Zamazenta-C who can be a troubling mon for more defensive leaning teams to pressure. There is however some role overlap as I believe Giratina-O has also gotten much better with Groudon's rise in popularity, along side it running Stone Edge less in favor of Fire moves along with Dada falling off a bit.
I think where it really shines though is when you free up a move on it and run a different Defogger. Giratina-A has an incredibly dangerous support movepool, and Pressure is one of the most dangerous abilities in Ubers due to how easily it squanders valuable PP. Being able to fit Toxic/Wisp/Roar/Rest or Protect/Wisp/Roar/Rest can make it much more awkward to pivot around. I've been loving Protect for matchups against Offense especially. Things like Calyrex Ice, Calyrex Shadow, and Marshadow have room for pause when you start threatening to remove their only means of dealing damage. In particular with Calyrex Shadow it allows you to scout for Trick which is invaluable for avoiding Checkmate Scenarios in which Yveltal winds up getting a Choice item. Special Defense investment allows you to easily take on Support Eternatus by running Protect and draining Dynamax Cannon's precious PP and you are still more than an adequate answer to Ho-Oh, Support NDM and can still have enough bulk to endure a +2 Precipice Blades from Adamant Groudon from full. (Not from life orb unfortunately.)
There's still a lot of things I haven't tried with it. Substitute+Protect sounds incredibly infuriating to try to get around, especially with Hazard Support. Hex seems like it could be okay to outright kill NDM after you burn it, as well as discouraging overly eager switch ins to Calyrex Shadow who predict low threat status moves like Wisp.
It still has issues being a relatively passive mon, and matching up terribly against Sticky Web teams with Special Yveltal, Offensive NDM, and Life Orb/Specs Calyrex Shadow. Adding a Ghost Weakness that doesn't kill Calyrex Shadow immediately with Shadow Sneak can be quite difficult to work with as well as desperately needing Cleric support to ensure it can continue taking on threats, but it also partners very well with the Clerics, especially Defensive Xerneas. I think it's better than the other B- mons by a big enough margin to warrant a rise.
Edit: Some Calcs to illustrate the Specially Defensive set I discussed using the spread I've been testing. With Protect this set can potentially run the opponent out of their primary STABs by using Protect then Rest and switching to an appropriate Pivot. The next time Giratina-A faces a lot of these Pokemon they won't be able to break through especially if you position yourself and get an Aromatherapy off.
0 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 132+ SpD Giratina: 206-246 (40.8 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 320-377 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 368-434 (73 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Protect -> Rest means that Etern basically has to use all of Dynamax Cannon's PP to beat Giratina.)
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 318-374 (63 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Allows you to take the 50/50 risk for Geomancy vs Moonblast and Roar Xern out even with Rocks+Spikes)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina in Rain: 233-274 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (You easily run Kyogre out of Spouts with Protect.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 248-294 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 324-384 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Protect into Rest can potentially force Caly-S to use all of Astral Barrage's PP to trade with Giratina)
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Giratina: 249-294 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Giratina: 369-435 (73.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 320-377 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 368-434 (73 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Protect -> Rest means that Etern basically has to use all of Dynamax Cannon's PP to beat Giratina.)
252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 318-374 (63 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Allows you to take the 50/50 risk for Geomancy vs Moonblast and Roar Xern out even with Rocks+Spikes)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina in Rain: 233-274 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (You easily run Kyogre out of Spouts with Protect.)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 248-294 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Giratina: 324-384 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Protect into Rest can potentially force Caly-S to use all of Astral Barrage's PP to trade with Giratina)
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Giratina: 249-294 (49.4 - 58.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Giratina: 369-435 (73.2 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
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Now that SCL is nearing the end of its main season, VR rises on the horizon unless Fc is a dirty liar, i think its time i say my pieces on the tier and some things that can change to make it more accurate since it has been awhile.
B to A- (Behind Xerneas)
This thing is insane dude. It's tour usage throughout both SCL and World Cup (including when it stomped me out) has shown its a force to be reckoned with. Nothing in the game is switching into this thing besides like a Phys Def Crogre, and that's not extremely common. Being paired with Magnezone to traps the Steels to just click Icicle Crash and 6-0 has seen insane usage lately, and is proof of how threatening this mon is in the builder that people are running Shed Shell on their Dusk manes again to stop Magnezone. This mon is a force and if you want more proof look through the myriad of replays of it smashing through a team or missing icicle crash and losing.
C+ to B-/B
Speaking of Magnezone hey guys wassup, it's the babies first Gothitelle replacement! Jokes aside this mon has been kicking ass recently and as i stated, the fact that people are starting to run shed shells again is indicative of its prowess, and personally I'd put it at B rn but because of how it feels like its gonna fall off from overpopularity, B- may be a more safe choice. It's very good at what it does and even if you aren't trapping a Dusk mane it still has some utility in Twave, trapping other Steels like Ferrothorn, and kinda soft checks Zekrom to a degree.
A to A but behind Ferrothorn.
POLTERGEIST SUCKS STOP USING IT. If the Sitrus berry and Air Balloon Xerneas, Eternatus and Clefables aren't enough of an indication, people should be realizing this move blows earwax and should stop using that shit. Spectral Thief is still fantastic but the rise of those sets makes me feel it's less impressive than Ferrothorn My Lord And Savior, who remains as good as everat being a Magnezone Victim at checking Kyogre!
A- to A (Ahead of Marshadow, behind Ferrothorn)
People are finally realizing that this mon is still strong as before, and running more offensive sets on it removes alot of its shortcomings. People have been experimenting with Choice Band Ho-oh stalls, fatfighter used Corviknight + CB Ho-oh and even Boots T-wave is a good lure to things like Eternatus, while remaining a generally tanky pokemon. Switching into invested stabs isn't very easy as pokemon like Kyogre don't appreciate Brave Bird and Eternatus doesn't appreciate T-wave into a Brave Bird. This one i feel less strongly on than some others but i do think Ho-oh remains a great presence.
A- to B
Tangrowth theorum applied here poor Dada. Dada just kinda struggles to find it's footing rn as it's more teams find alternative ways to answer mons and pokemon it doesn't like propping further up in the meta, like Darm-G. Not much else to say, it's not bad by any means but it's far past it's peak.
C+ to B/B-
This mon is a prophet, it's so good i love it. I remember seeing London Beats load Heatran into a Stall and outright dismantle Poek with absolutely nothing he could've done to stop it. Even beyond that replay, Heatran is amazing at trapping Pokemon like Eternatus, Fat Xerneas and non EQ Ho-oh, which is most of them tbf, and absolutely destroys stall better than arguably any other pokemon in the meta, while also being Magnezone immune unless you miss ALOT of storms. It's also fairly strong and not passive atall.
C+ to B-
Suicune is surprisingly effective in this tier, threatening a vast majority of the tier over time and depletes alot of the low PP moves, like Astral Barrage, Dynamax Cannon and Sunsteel Strike. It's not easy to splash on a team but it's nice as a solid slowball threat which threatens to dismantle bulky teams, as well as being generally tanky enough to swallow any 1 neutral hit, even something like a +1 Caly-G Astral Barrage.
B to C
Imma be real i'd rather use Reshiram over this. It's shit Eternatus, a bad Kyogre check, rarely breaks teams if atall, and struggles to switch in. and it's not beating Yveltal without some juicy crits or thunder paras either, and that mon is on every team so don't use this trash and just use the Goat Eternatus.
C to B-/B
Best knock absorber in the Franchise is a quite a claim to faim and hard stopping what's frankly the most common mon in the tier is a powerful and valuable niche to have, while packing other mons it soft checks such as Xerneas, Zekrom, and Scarf Caly-Gs. Also is Zone Proof too so that's another plus. Solid Darm-G check aswell, finally this mon can have it's day.
C to C+
This mon is somehow so threatening but NEVER wins bro idk how it does it. Through some way it just never wins, it will never see a W i do not get it. Despite that it remains a strong force despite missing Triple Axels like absent parents miss child support. Smashing through mons like Eternatus, Zekrom, Groudon, Lunala and more. Struggles to come in but when it does it's a big threat.
B to B-
I love you but you aren't good. Blissey real estate and Lunala estate sucks but while it's dangerous when it predicts correctly it's not easy to do and inviting other things in for free after you get it right anyway it's even less fun, especially when dusk manes run sp def. Also sucks vs HO and other mons like Groudon which is even worse.
B to bottom of A-
This mon nice w it, absolutely 0 switchins in the game and dusk manes running sp def over phys def is huge for it. Not much else to say, meta is kinder to it and allows it more chances to get kills more easily.
S- tier entries
Too lazy to explain but i stand by what i said.
Anyway thats all i got for now, probably more noms to make but im lazy and need to farm ZU reqs so i'll potential talk more on it later
This thing is insane dude. It's tour usage throughout both SCL and World Cup (including when it stomped me out) has shown its a force to be reckoned with. Nothing in the game is switching into this thing besides like a Phys Def Crogre, and that's not extremely common. Being paired with Magnezone to traps the Steels to just click Icicle Crash and 6-0 has seen insane usage lately, and is proof of how threatening this mon is in the builder that people are running Shed Shell on their Dusk manes again to stop Magnezone. This mon is a force and if you want more proof look through the myriad of replays of it smashing through a team or missing icicle crash and losing.
Speaking of Magnezone hey guys wassup, it's the babies first Gothitelle replacement! Jokes aside this mon has been kicking ass recently and as i stated, the fact that people are starting to run shed shells again is indicative of its prowess, and personally I'd put it at B rn but because of how it feels like its gonna fall off from overpopularity, B- may be a more safe choice. It's very good at what it does and even if you aren't trapping a Dusk mane it still has some utility in Twave, trapping other Steels like Ferrothorn, and kinda soft checks Zekrom to a degree.
Speaking of Zekrom I'm personally going to Disagree with this and say keep Zekrom where it stands. Personally i think Zekrom still remains as a strong presence in the tier and actually functions as a solid partner to Groudon, bouncing off eachother nicely and pressuring pokemon who double down on them to sometimes pick and choose which one it can handle because often times it can't do both. Its also nice at Luring Groudon out with sets like Life Orb Draco Meteor or Magnet Rise DD forcing its hand, and honestly its not extremely hard to weaken Groudon to where Zekrom can clean house. It's still just as dangerous as ever and i think it should stay where it is.
Another big loser of Groudon getting popular. Sure, special sets are a thing but it was ranked this highly to begin with cause of its DDance set, and its gotten much worse. Same as for Sand, Buzzwole and Landorus-Therian also getting more usage dont help it at all. Still a good Pokemon, but its not that good anymore. Would probably put it in A- on top of Ho-Oh.
POLTERGEIST SUCKS STOP USING IT. If the Sitrus berry and Air Balloon Xerneas, Eternatus and Clefables aren't enough of an indication, people should be realizing this move blows earwax and should stop using that shit. Spectral Thief is still fantastic but the rise of those sets makes me feel it's less impressive than Ferrothorn My Lord And Savior, who remains as good as ever
People are finally realizing that this mon is still strong as before, and running more offensive sets on it removes alot of its shortcomings. People have been experimenting with Choice Band Ho-oh stalls, fatfighter used Corviknight + CB Ho-oh and even Boots T-wave is a good lure to things like Eternatus, while remaining a generally tanky pokemon. Switching into invested stabs isn't very easy as pokemon like Kyogre don't appreciate Brave Bird and Eternatus doesn't appreciate T-wave into a Brave Bird. This one i feel less strongly on than some others but i do think Ho-oh remains a great presence.
Tangrowth theorum applied here poor Dada. Dada just kinda struggles to find it's footing rn as it's more teams find alternative ways to answer mons and pokemon it doesn't like propping further up in the meta, like Darm-G. Not much else to say, it's not bad by any means but it's far past it's peak.
This mon is a prophet, it's so good i love it. I remember seeing London Beats load Heatran into a Stall and outright dismantle Poek with absolutely nothing he could've done to stop it. Even beyond that replay, Heatran is amazing at trapping Pokemon like Eternatus, Fat Xerneas and non EQ Ho-oh, which is most of them tbf, and absolutely destroys stall better than arguably any other pokemon in the meta, while also being Magnezone immune unless you miss ALOT of storms. It's also fairly strong and not passive atall.
Suicune is surprisingly effective in this tier, threatening a vast majority of the tier over time and depletes alot of the low PP moves, like Astral Barrage, Dynamax Cannon and Sunsteel Strike. It's not easy to splash on a team but it's nice as a solid slowball threat which threatens to dismantle bulky teams, as well as being generally tanky enough to swallow any 1 neutral hit, even something like a +1 Caly-G Astral Barrage.
Imma be real i'd rather use Reshiram over this. It's shit Eternatus, a bad Kyogre check, rarely breaks teams if atall, and struggles to switch in. and it's not beating Yveltal without some juicy crits or thunder paras either, and that mon is on every team so don't use this trash and just use the Goat Eternatus.
Best knock absorber in the Franchise is a quite a claim to faim and hard stopping what's frankly the most common mon in the tier is a powerful and valuable niche to have, while packing other mons it soft checks such as Xerneas, Zekrom, and Scarf Caly-Gs. Also is Zone Proof too so that's another plus. Solid Darm-G check aswell, finally this mon can have it's day.
This mon is somehow so threatening but NEVER wins bro idk how it does it. Through some way it just never wins, it will never see a W i do not get it. Despite that it remains a strong force despite missing Triple Axels like absent parents miss child support. Smashing through mons like Eternatus, Zekrom, Groudon, Lunala and more. Struggles to come in but when it does it's a big threat.
I love you but you aren't good. Blissey real estate and Lunala estate sucks but while it's dangerous when it predicts correctly it's not easy to do and inviting other things in for free after you get it right anyway it's even less fun, especially when dusk manes run sp def. Also sucks vs HO and other mons like Groudon which is even worse.
This mon nice w it, absolutely 0 switchins in the game and dusk manes running sp def over phys def is huge for it. Not much else to say, meta is kinder to it and allows it more chances to get kills more easily.
S- tier entries
Too lazy to explain but i stand by what i said.
Anyway thats all i got for now, probably more noms to make but im lazy and need to farm ZU reqs so i'll potential talk more on it later
https://tiermaker.com/create/ubers-viability-ranking-1337570
I made this! Feel free to share your personal ones here, or tell me if you think I missed any important mons. Here's mine, I'll justify placements if people ask about them.
I made this! Feel free to share your personal ones here, or tell me if you think I missed any important mons. Here's mine, I'll justify placements if people ask about them.
Lugia is the worst uber ever, Celebi isn't viable, Zygarde is almost better than don and probably will be eventually, Zama-C is top 30 better than all the shitmons we have ranked rn mag has more potential to go up and buzz is the only good don "check" that still exists but loses to fire moves puff is the only ho mon.
Aberforth add hail mons >:(
Aberforth add hail mons >:(
You outta be demoted for that giratina-o placement
Any chance for VR update before BDSP is released?
Been playing Ubers quite consistently this past month and a half, getting alts into the 1500/1600+ just testing stuff and feeling the meta. I somewhat keep up with tours because we all know ladder meta is not the same as tour meta. I probably chose the best time to play again because no more zacian sTag bs and the meta is really fun to play. Everything from S to A- is ordered and I just wanna go over one thing that I noticed.
1. Palkia < Reshiram/Kyurem-W??
A lot of the posts I've seen here tell me no one really rates Palkia as a mon. When Lunala made a post on 23rd September saying Palkia sucks, that was my main reason for even playing again because on paper, Palkia didn't seem that bad.. My overall opinion on Palkia is that I do not believe it's "bad" or "trash" but obviously it's not in a good spot, those calcs against spdef Yveltal with Thunder were incredibly sad, if you want to use a dragon, use Eternatus/Rayquaza etc but my problem is seeing it in the same tier or even below Reshiram and Kyurem-W. Reshiram arguably is a good bit worse than Palkia, harder to get in, slower, Fire STAB is debatably less useful than Water STAB and I just don't see the appeal for using Reshiram, it's like the second worst dragon in the tier. Kyurem-W on the other hand, is just a superior Reshiram and I still think Palkia has a slight edge thanks to the speed tier but I must respect the damage output between these two mons is noticeable.
Hone Claws Scale Shot Palkia is goated