Darkrai [Done]

nyttyn

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#1
[Overview]

<p>Power, Speed, and versatility&mdash;it's hard to find all of these things in a single package&mdash;but Darkrai has all three. Possessing an extremely fast base Speed of 125 and a monstrous base Special Attack of 135, Darkrai can hit hard and fast. To make things better, it has access to a movepool with a plethora of options, both offensive and support. On top of all of this, it has access to Dark-type STAB, a type that can hit many top support Pokemon such as Cresselia and Musharna for super effective damage, as well as hit many Pokemon for at least neutral damage. Combined with the high number of coverage moves it has, there is very little Darkrai cannot hit for at least neutral damage.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, Darkrai isn't perfect. Possessing only passable defensive stats of 70 / 90 / 90 and an annoying weakness to Fighting-type moves (one of the most common coverage types in the game), Darkrai isn't difficult to KO. In addition, it unfortunately lacks access to a high-powered STAB and a powerful spread move, which serves to somewhat undermine its high Special Attack. To further compound matters, speed control of any sort (paralysis, Tailwind, Trick Room) from the enemy winds up utterly crippling Darkrai, as it heavily relies on going first in order to take as little damage as possible. Finally, Darkrai has four-moveslot syndrome, which somewhat undermines its versatility.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Focus Blast / Thunderbolt / Taunt / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Protect
item: Life Orb
ability: Bad Dreams
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Although Darkrai has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, its standard set is pretty straightforward. Dark Pulse is run for STAB, while Ice Beam is the primary coverage option, since many top-tier Doubles threats are weak to Ice. For the third moveslot, if you desire coverage, you have your choice between Focus Blast, Thunderbolt, and Hidden Power Fire. While Focus Blast is the preferred option, since Darkrai isn't really fan of Steel-types such as Ferrothorn or Excadrill, Thunderbolt gives access to the coveted BoltBeam combination, as well as help Darkrai with its troubles against bulky Water-types such as Suicuine. Hidden Power Fire is pretty much exclusively for Scizor, Escalvaier, and Ferrothorn; be sure to run 31 / 2 / 31 / 30 / 31 / 30 IVs if you're using Hidden Power Fire. If additional coverage is not of concern, Darkrai can instead run Taunt, which is extremely useful for shutting down all of the supportive moves that fly around in Doubles. Finally, Protect provides Darkrai with both an extremely solid defensive option and useful utility in aiding the stalling out of field moves such as Trick Room and Tailwind.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>While Life Orb is the item primarily used due to Darkrai requiring all of the power it can get its hands on, Chople Berry is a viable alternative to keep Darkrai from instantly dying when a Fighting-type sneezes on it. The EVs and Timid nature enable Darkrai to just barely outspeed Choice Scarf Tyranitar, but Darkrai can use a Modest nature and 252 Speed EVs if said Pokemon and the additional bulk are not a concern; plus, it can still outspeed everything up to Jolly Terrakion. If you're running Darkrai with rain support, Thunder is an option, as is Blizzard should you run Darkrai with hail support. If you wish for Darkrai to have even more power, you can use Nasty Plot, but it requires Fake Out/Rage Powder support to work, as Darkrai is too frail to take a hit. Substitute is an option, both to act as a pseudo-Protect against everything slower then Darkrai (almost all of Doubles) and to provide it with a shield should Darkrai properly use it with Fake Out or Rage Powder support from its teammates. Psychic is an option if you're scared of Fighting-types. Finally, if you desire more utility, Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, and Disable are all very useful.</p>

<p>Optimal partners for Darkrai include Pokemon such as Breloom and Conkeldurr, which appreciate Psychic- and Ghost-types removed from the field. Pokemon that can remove Fighting- and Steel-types, such as Chandelure, Tornadus, Latios, and Expert Belt Cresselia, also make for fantastic partners, as they can easily enable Darkrai to wreak some serious havoc with its banes removed.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>The most notable other option that Darkrai has, in order to make use of its extensive supportive movepool and passable defensive stats, would be a set with a Sitrus Berry and an EV spread of 252 HP / 112 SpA / 144 Spe EVs, alongside a Timid nature, having the moves Snarl, Icy Wind, Will-O-Wisp, and Taunt. The EVs are set to maximize bulk and outspeed everything notable after a an Icy Wind drop, with the rest put into Special Attack. Though potentially very useful, it can be quite difficult to fit on a team and suffers stiff competition from the likes of Suicune, Raikou, and Cresselia; still, the ability to drop the opposing Pokemon's Special Attack with a decent STAB move is not to be underestimated.</p>

<p>Snarl can be an option on the main set, as it provides a spread move for Darkrai to hit foes with, but its power might not be optimal. A Choice Specs set with Trick can be a option if more power is desired out of the gate. Spacial Rend can be used to hit Dragons neutral to Ice, and it also provides decent neutral coverage. Hypnosis in conjunction with Gravity support is an option. Psych Up can be used on some gimmicky teams. Icy Wind can be used for both a (very weak) spread option and speed control. Torment on the right team could possibly be useful. Finally, Dark Gem can be used for a one-time boost of power without HP loss.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>While powerful, Darkrai isn't exactly lacking in checks or counters. Fighting-types pose significant problems to Darkrai. Hitmontop and Conkeldurr can straight out murder it and fear only Psychic. Heracross threatens Darkrai with both STABs, though is threatened by both Psychic and Ice Beam. Scrafty can OHKO Darkrai with Drain Punch and heal itself at the same time, but falls to a Focus Blast. Virizion's Focus Blast is a huge concern, but it falls to both Ice Beam and Psychic.</p>

<p>Bug / Steel types such as Scizor, Genesect, and Escavalier also severely threaten Darkrai and are not threatened by Dark Pulse or Ice Beam, though they fall to Hidden Power Fire. Trick Room is a huge liability to Darkrai, as it turns its fast Speed against it, making it easy pickings. Thunder Wave from the likes of bulky Thundurus is a good method of dealing with Darkrai, as it cuts down on Darkrai's Speed, leaving it open to a KO by just about anything. Anything that is specially bulky and not weak to Dark Pulse, examples being Politoed, Gastodon, Amoonguss, and Jirachi, also gives Darkrai a hard time. Finally, anything that outspeeds Darkrai and deals massive damage to it, such as weather sweepers (particularly Excadrill and Kingdra) and Choice Scarf users with high power can simply KO Darkrai before it gets a chance to act. Deoxys-A can outspeed and OHKO with Superpower, though it is OHKOed in turn by Darkrai.</p>
 
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Laga

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#3
^ that is for OO.

rename your set to something else; Pwne I would just call it "Special Attacker"; generally funny names are for either joke analyses or something that much of the community call it, for example "Touncher" for Muk in NU.
 

Pocket

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#4
nyttyn, you need an AC section where you provide EV explanation; alternative EV spreads, items, and moves; and teammate options.

Under AC you can add moves like Substitute, Disable, and Taunt. AC mention Dark Gem and Chople Berry, too.

OO - if you're going to mention Gravity, mention Hypnosis. Spacial Rend is also useful for hitting all dragons for super-effective damage (including Kyurem(-B) and Kingdra) in exchange for losing out on Ground-, Grass-, and Flying-mons. Spacial Rend lets you bypass Yache Berry often found in Pokemon like Garchomp, too.

Nasty Plot is worth mentioning - it can pull it off with some Fake Out / Follow Me support.

Sucker Punch is worth mentioning for STAB priority coming off of a decent base 90 Atk.
 
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DTC

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#6
One question: Where is support Darkrai?
Snarl, Icy Wind, Thunder Wave, WoW, its worth a mention under the sets.
It's still being tested out.

I think Snarl should be in AC of the offensive set. It gives Darkrai a nice spread move (even though it's not that strong, using Snarl instead of Dark Pulse when you want to kill something that is low HP is more efficient etc), and you get pretty much perfect coverage from Dark Pulse + Focus Blast anyways. Ice Beam is obviously nice for OHKO'ing all of the 4x weak Ice-types in Doubles, which is why Snarl would be in AC.
 

nyttyn

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#7
Quick status update: I am still working on this, but I wish to give Support Darkrai further testing before making a judgment as to if it is OO or main set worthy.

Also, Snarl is so disgustingly weak it absolutely does not belong on the main aggressive set. It would have shit BP even before the spread reduction, and it simply is not worth it on the offensive set as a result. You can't afford to give up coverage, you can't afford to give up protect, and you sure as shit can't afford to give up your STAB option.
 

DTC

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#8
Also, Snarl is so disgustingly weak it absolutely does not belong on the main aggressive set. It would have shit BP even before the spread reduction, and it simply is not worth it on the offensive set as a result. You can't afford to give up coverage, you can't afford to give up protect, and you sure as shit can't afford to give up your STAB option.
You can afford to give up Ice Beam/Blizzard in certain cases, because pretty much all of the Pokemon you hit with Ice Beam get hit decently hard by Dark Pulse anyways. It obviously has shit BP, but thanks to STAB and Darkrai's Special Attack stat, it can generally do ~25% damage, which is enough for the purpose of Snarl (to hit both opponents when one is severely weakened -- this is a general situation that happens often in Doubles). It's obviously not an amazing option, which is why I suggested AC.

At the very least it deserves OO, much more so than stuff like Psych Up.
 

nyttyn

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#9
Sucker Punch is worth mentioning for STAB priority coming off of a decent base 90 Atk.
no it sucks it really really sucks what else is Darkrai doing with 90 attack it has a trash physical movepool and no secondary STAB option.

why do you even need prioirty with darkrai it isn't exactly struggling for speed

Otherwise, all changes have been made. Support Darkrai moved to OO after extensive testing, it's just awkward to use, awkward to team build around, and overall very meh and lacking even when it does work.
 
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Audiosurfer

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#10
Ok, some things:
  • Add scrafty, genesect, terrakion to C&C
  • In ac of offensive set add a spread that only outspeeds up to Tornadus/Thundurus
  • Speaking of AC, you still haven't added an AC section like Pocket said
  • Change the name to Offensive, standard part seems unnecessary imo
 

nyttyn

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#11
changes made moslty

and no darkrai is common enough to justify max speed to outrun opposing darkrai since you don't lose anything notciable as a result.
 

Audiosurfer

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#12
ok, format the ac as [Additional Comments] and space it out a bit from the Set Comments. Also, please include the alternate spread I requested. I'm not asking you to make it a main spread, but if you don't care about speed tying opposing Darkrai then there's no reason to use max Speed, hence why it should be mentioned. Also Darkrai isn't as common as you're trying to claim anyways (is UU based on usage) so yeah, include it (spread is 112 HP / 252 SpA / 144 Spe). The AC here is pretty sparse so here are some things to include:
  • Psychics like Cresselia can make for good partners since they can eliminate Fighting-types for Darkrai
  • Flying-types make good partners for a similar reason
  • Slower teams appreciate its high Speed and ability to hit fast and frailer Pokemon hard
  • Move Taunt to AC since it's not a main slash on the set and thus shouldnt be mentioned in Set Comments
  • Also, move Dark Gem + Chople Berry up to AC
  • Mention Expert Belt in AC too
Also, mention Heracross in Checks and Counters as well as Thundurus
 

Pocket

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#13
I agree with all of the suggestions by Audiosurfer.

Overview: I wouldn't say Darkrai have 4MSS - it gets good mileage from Dark Pulse + Focus Blast alone. The lack of powerful moves akin to Latios's Draco Meteor or a decent STAB spread move akin to Heatran's Heat Wave is its main issue that you should note instead.

Also Dark-type is NOT bad - it's only weak to Fighting- and Bug-, both of which lack a useful spread move and are easy to cover, and offers a STAB that is super effective to some of the top threats of Doubles, including Cresselia, Latios, and Chandelure. Please re-phrase.

Set Comments: Good stuff

Additional Comments: Add Audiosurfer's suggestions for AC here. As per Audiosurfer add Pokemon that can eliminate Fighting- and Bug-types like Hitmontop, Scizor, and Volcarona. Chandelure, Tornadus, and Gyarados all comes to mind as useful teammates.

A partner that can also remove specially bulky Pokemon not weak to Dark Pulse also comes in handy. Shaymin-S and offensive variants of Thundurus(-T) are good partners for this reason, eliminating the majority of Politoed, Gastrodon, Amoonguss, Hitmontop, Jirachi, Togekiss, and Chople Tyranitar for Darkrai.

Alongside with Taunt, mention other utility moves that Darkrai can utilize, such as Disable, Will-O-Wisp, and Thunder Wave. Move Substitute to AC as well.

Thunder and Psychic should be moved from OO to AC, too, since both moves can work for the particular set.

Move Nasty Plot description from OO to AC for the same reason as above.

Checks and Counters: I wouldn't call Terrakion a check unless it's Scarfed or if sand is up. LO Focus Blast is a solid OHKO. Tyranitar isn't exactly a check either without Chople Berry AND Superpower. Please note these conditions if you're going to list them.

Specially bulky Pokemon not weak to Dark Pulse, such as Politoed, Gastrodon, Amoonguss, and Jirachi can be annoying for Darkrai to handle. You already mentioned Hitmontop

Add Weather speed sweepers, such as Kingdra, Ludicolo, and Excadrill
 

NixHex

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#14
Remove 0 IVs. There is no need to specify that on every non-physical Pokemon in the game. Still mention 2 Atk for HP fire though.
 
#15
I'd think Modest is a possible nature for Darkrai... not better, but possible. It stills outspeeds Jolly Terrakion and everything lower w/ Modest, and it gains some notable power (but I've been wrong before):

  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Landorus-T: 367-432 (96.07 - 113.08%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 367-432 (95.07 - 111.91%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 439-517 (103.53 - 121.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 335-395 (104.36 - 123.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO (This one is probably one of the most notable things it gains from Modest)
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 348-411 (97.2 - 114.8%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

For the most part it makes a lot of KOs more likely to happen, so I'd think its worthy of a slash.
 
#17
Overview
  • Its typing needs to be here, just rephrased a little (like Pocket said). While it gives it great offensive potential (and super-effective STAB against the majority of Trick Room setters), the Dark typing also gives it a nasty Fighting-type weakness, which in particular includes Mach Punch
  • I feel like there was one other thing I wanted to mention here.... whatevs if I remember I'll mention it
"Offensive" Set
  • Looks perfect to me.
"Offensive" Set Comments
  • Specify that Thunderbolt can hit bulky Water-types like Suicune harder, which is really the main reason you would use it
"Offensive" Set Additional Comments
  • Dark Gem gains OHKOs on bulkier (252 HP EVs) Mew and Victini (and Celebi) sets, but those aren't exceedingly common, I think you should just remove it here and go with the entry you already have in OO
  • Move Substitute, Psychic, and Nasty Plot to Other Options; Nasty Plot could stay since it fits very well on this set, but the other two tend to be a bit redundant in my opinion
  • Expert Belt is a choice here (or in OO), giving a x1.2 boost often thanks to Darkrai's super effective coverage and not losing any bulk like LO does
Other Options
  • Remove Snarl, Icy Wind and Will-O-Wisp from their sections outside of the support set, since the support set covers them
  • Physical Set w/ Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, and Drain Punch should be added I think Sucker Punch earns an OO mention, simply because it is a nice STAB priority attack (off of Darkrai's tolerable base 90 atk) which can net some surprise kills. If you strongly think otherwise you don't have to mention it though.
Checks and Counters
  • Thunder Wave is a p. big counter, as is opposing Tailwind. Bulky Thundurus in particular makes a good check, as it can live an Ice Beam and hit Darkrai with priority Thunder Wave. Darkrai just hates speed control in general
  • Bulkier Heracross is a pain for Darkrai who aren't running HP Fire as well, since it resists Focus Blast and Dark Pulse, leaving Darkrai Ice Beam/TBolt to hit it with (and of course decimating it w/ CC or Megahorn
Good job.


QC APPROVED 1/3
 

Pocket

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#18
Nollan said:
Move Substitute, Psychic, and Nasty Plot to Other Options; Nasty Plot could stay since it fits very well on this set, but the other two tend to be a bit redundant in my opinion
Nah keep Substitute and Psychic in AC - they are viable alternatives to the Offensive set
 

Pocket

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#20
Thanks for getting back to Darkrai, nyttyn!

Finally Taunt is also an option to replace either coverage move if moves suchas Trick Room are a serious concern
Move to AC, since it's not in the moveset
  1. Come with an alternative spread that is fast enough to outrun Scarf Tyranitar in AC - it's rare for Darkrai to face anything faster than that.
  2. Move Chople Berry and add Expert Belt to AC
  3. Move Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, Disable to AC
  4. Add Heracross and bulky Thundurus to Checks & Counters
  5. Mention its exceptional versatility in Overview
I also agree with all of Nollan's suggestions that don't contradict mine :P
 

nyttyn

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#21
Would like reasoning for expert belt. Otherwise, all other changes made. Spread will be added once I come up with it.
 

Pocket

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#22
Expert Belt is effective, because Darkrai attains broad super-effective coverage with its Dark + Fighting + Ice combo

nyttyn, just go with 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe - no need to think too hard on this one

Also remove the Blizzard slash with Ice Beam for the same reason you don't have Thunder in the main moveset (they're both dependent on their respective weather). Move all mentions of Blizzard in Set Comments to AC

Otherwise, you can start writing this bby up:

QC Approved (2/3)
 

nyttyn

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#23
Again, I'm not seeing what is making Expert Belt worth the power drop from Life Orb. Traditionally, you use Expert Belt to bluff a Choice set or to bluff an offensive set on a traditionally defensive pokemon - Darkrai does not run choice sets and it isn't traditionally a defensive pokemon. And the loss on neutral hits and the loss in damage overall really hurts.
 

Pocket

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#24
The notable power boost without recoil is always an advantage. Bluffing is hardly the reason to use Expert Belt, that's only an icing on a cake. Expert Belt provides enough boost for Darkrai to nab OHKO on Latios with Dark Pulse, Hydreigon and max HP Tyranitar with Focus Blast, Tornadus and Yache Berry Landorus-T with Ice Beam while not taking any 10% damage in the process.
 

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