Deoxys-A (QC 2/2)

Haruno

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[OVERVIEW]
  • Incredibly fast in addition to being very powerful makes it an immediate threat the moment it gets onto the field.
  • Glass cannon, Absolutely cannot take any hits whatsoever before being reduced to focus sash.
  • Has a stellar movepool to help fully take advantage of its incredible attacking stats.
  • One of its biggest weaknesses in previous generations was being incredibly vulnerable to priority moves but thanks to tapu lele's psychic terrain nullifying priority moves, deoxys-a lost one of its main checks.
[SET]
name: All out attacker
move 1: Psycho Boost
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Knock Off / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
move 4: Detect
item: Focus Sash
ability: Pressure
nature: Rash / Mild
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Psycho Boost is your primary stab, ohko'ing pretty much everything that doesn't resist it and even to resisted targets, it still hits for ridiculous damage. If under psychic terrain, Psycho Boost gets a 1.5x multiplier and thus making sure even resists are heavily dented.
  • Superpower is used to hit steels/darks such as heatran or ferrothorn which would wall you otherwise due to resisting Psycho Boost and it can also be used to hit kanga for good damage without lowering your special attack.
  • Knock Off is the most reliable way of hitting psychics that resist both superpower and psycho boost and also causes disruptions by removing your opponent's item such as choice scarf from tapu lele or landorus-therian which would otherwise threaten and ohko you otherwise. Also not weakened after using psycho boost.
  • Shadow Ball is a viable alternative due to hitting harder because of your full special attack investment and also hits some common steels that don't take SE damage from superpower such as jirachi, aegislash, and it also hits tapu lele for SE damage. Much weaker however after psycho boost.
  • Ice Beam is to hit common Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Shaymin-Sky, and Salamence without reducing your special attack with psycho boost while also outspeeding those pokemon under ordinary circumstances.
  • Detect is necessary on Deoxys-a since due to its poor (understatement) defenses, it's a common target for your opponent's attacks. It also allows you to stall out troublesome effects for Deoxys-A such as tailwind, trick room, etc. Detect is used over protect in the off chance your opponent has imprison + protect.
Set Details
========
  • Focus Sash is to ensure that Deoxys-A actually manages to take a hit before getting ko'd and is incredibly useful since otherwise Deoxys-A will get one hit ko'd by anything.
  • Rash and Mild natures are essentially identical in utility since losing points in either defense doesn't bother Deoxys-A since it is getting one shotted regardless of investment while allowing Deoxys-A to hit even harder with Psycho Boost.
  • Max Special Attack is to maximize the power of your stab and Shadow Ball or Ice Beam should they choose to be run.
  • Max Speed investment is to allow Deoxys-A to outspeed nearly the entirety of the non boosted/scarfed metagame.
Usage Tips
========
  • Due to Deoxys-A inability to switch in, it must be a lead or switch in after an ally pokemon gets ko'd.
  • If your opponent has some form of speed control such as tailwind or trick room, it is better to switch deoxys out in most cases because if it doesn't go first, it will die.
  • Focus Sash allows you to play more aggressively since it gives Deoxys some security by being able to live a hit.
  • Use Detect to scout for scarf users which greatly threaten Deoxys by outspeeding and ohko'ing it before Deoxys can do anything in return.
Team Options
========
  • Tapu Lele is almost an essential partner to Deoxys-A since it helps remove one of deoxys main weaknesses in priority, in addition to making Deoxys do more damage with psycho boost. Struggles with steel types however due to resisting both of their stab moves while also being bulky and not taking much. Notable examples include celesteela and aegislash which tapu lele + deo-a are hard pressed to ko.
  • Redirectors are very good partners (such as togekiss, amoonguss, jirachi, etc) for Deoxys since they force your opponent to target themselves as opposed to the very frail deoxys which helps Deoxys have longer time in battle.
  • Strong, fast offensive pokemon such as Kangaskhan are good partners because they can pressure with fake out while allowing you to continually overwhelm your opponent with all out offense.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Life Orb is usable however you no longer are able to take any hits and the extra power isn't needed in most situations but has some usage if you're willing to take the risk.
  • Extremespeed is a viable option if psychic terrain isn't active since it allows Deoxys-A to ko scarf users or pokemon in trickroom before getting hit itself.
  • Psychic is usable over a coverage move for deoxys-a since it helps you hit ridiculously hard while not lowering your special attack in addition to not having a miss chance.
  • Hasty or Naive nature is usable if you want to outspeed common scarfers such as Tapu Lele or Landorus-T assuming they do not run a +spe nature, loses out on necessary power for Deoxys in return, allows you to speed tie with other +spe deo-a or outspeed neutral ones.
Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-type Pokemon**: Steel types that resist psychic and fighting such as Jirachi, aegislash and celesteela greatly threaten Deoxys since it forces it to rely on much weaker moves to damage them which often will not ohko them.

**Psychic-type Pokemon**: Similar to steel types in the sense that they force you to rely on your weaker moves and can often live a hit while ohko'ing you in return. Notable examples are lele itself, jirachi, and necrozma.

**Speed Control**: Any form of speed control whether it be thunder wave, tailwind, or trick room all greatly keep Deoxys-a in check since it allows your opponent to attack before you get to attack which often means a dead Deoxys.

**Faster Pokemon**: Outspeeds and ohko you before you can do anything such as scarf landorus-therian or scarf tapu lele or setup sweepers that acquires speed boosts such as dragon dance mega salamence or quiver dance volcarona to name a few.

**Priority Attackers**: Less of an issue now than in ORAS due to the existence of tapu lele, but in the off chance that your opponent has a different Tapu or psychic terrain isn't up, Deoxys-a is threatened immensely by omnipresent priority moves such as Fake Out.
 
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Just a nitpick, but detect is better than protect because of the occasional imprison+protect. But yeah deo a is p simple, so u p much nailed it
 

Pocket

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Isn't Shadow Ball > Dark Pulse? Lets Deoxys-A hit Tapu Lele for SE damage, while still hitting Jirachi and Aegislash hard.

Hasty / Naïve is standard imo, b/c you wanna Speed tie against opposing Deoxys.
 
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GenOne

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I don't entirely understand why running Rash / Mild natures is better than Naive/Hasty. Spe+ was the standard in ORAS, and in SM it still lets you outrun common Adamant/Modest scarf users like Landorus-Therian and Tapu Lele as well as speed tie Deoxys-A mirrors. I know you addressed that a bit in the Other Options section, but I'd like to read more on why the extra power is better than the chance to outspeed opposing scarf users. Are there specific OHKOs Deoxys misses out on by running Naive/Hasty?

IMO Superpower isn't necessarily a "must have" on Deoxys, depending on the rest of your team. I feel like slots 2 and 3 could both be slashed, but that's just me.

Under other options, it might be worth noting that running 32 attack and Meteor Mash lets you OHKO 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele. That's not generally the best option, but I think it warrants being an OO.
 

Haruno

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Just a nitpick, but detect is better than protect because of the occasional imprison+protect. But yeah deo a is p simple, so u p much nailed it
ok I'll do it in like 12 hours
Isn't Shadow Ball > Dark Pulse? Lets Deoxys-A hit Tapu Lele for SE damage, while still hitting Jirachi and Aegislash hard.

Hasty / Naïve is standard imo, b/c you wanna Speed tie against opposing Deoxys.
Sure I can do shadow ball > dpulse, i was judging it more of what has a better secondary effect but hitting lele for SE is huge and probably more useful than banking on flinch.

I don't care enough mirror matchups especially when the nature change would only be used for the speed the specifically (unless there's something relevant from 135 => 150 speed tier I missed). It's probably more worth it to go for more damage than it is to run a nature specifically for a mirror. THAT and it'd look convoluted if I put 4 diff natures on the analysis for something I don't find important. I left it as a OO though. One motable thing that isnt isn't a mirror is max speed outspeeds scarf lele/landoge with a neutral nature but that point depends moreso on the meta trends since if players are more commonly using adamant/modest for lando/lele respectively then I'd be more willing to say +spe is better but atm that doesn't seem to be the case from what I've seen at least.


I don't entirely understand why running Rash / Mild natures is better than Naive/Hasty. Spe+ was the standard in ORAS, and in SM it still lets you outrun common Adamant/Modest scarf users like Landorus-Therian and Tapu Lele as well as speed tie Deoxys-A mirrors. I know you addressed that a bit in the Other Options section, but I'd like to read more on why the extra power is better than the chance to outspeed opposing scarf users. Are there specific OHKOs Deoxys misses out on by running Naive/Hasty?

IMO Superpower isn't necessarily a "must have" on Deoxys, depending on the rest of your team. I feel like slots 2 and 3 could both be slashed, but that's just me.

Under other options, it might be worth noting that running 32 attack and Meteor Mash lets you OHKO 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele. That's not generally the best option, but I think it warrants being an OO.
Read comments to pocket's post

Superpower is definitely mandatory especially when your stab move is resisted by two types (psychic/steel) and nullified by another (dark). And seeing as how superpower is the most reliable way of hitting 2/3 of those types especially so seeing how omnipresent steels are, I don't see why there would be a move even worth slashing over it. If it got aura sphere over focus blast, I could definitely see the merit but that's not the case.

meteor mash is bad.
 

talkingtree

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  • [Set] Only use Rash - with the Parental Bond nerf, Rash > Mild gives Deo-A a chance to survive Jolly Mega Kang Fake Out in the event Psychic Terrain is not up and for some reason you decide not to Protect. This will basically never happen, but it's not worth confusing newer readers over a choice between two natures when one is theoretically somewhat better. EDIT: I messed up the calc, my bad. Just leave this as-is with both natures available.
  • [Moves] Give a couple of examples of Steels you're hitting with Superpower (Heatran and Ferrothorn would be my choices), and mention that it can take out a weakened Mega Kangaskhan, which is no longer a huge threat to Deo-A with Psychic Terrain available
  • [Set Details] When you talk about max Special Attack, change the mention of Dark Pulse to Shadow Ball to reflect the change you made to the set
  • [Usage Tips] "Use Protect" -> "Use Detect"
  • [Other Options] miltankmilk's Nasty Plot set has shown to be viable enough to get a mention here (Nasty Plot / Psychic / Shadow Ball), and with Psychic Terrain boosting Psychic you don't even need the boost a lot of the time.
  • [Checks and Counters] **Scarf Users** -> **Faster Pokemon** is more generalized to include Pheromosa and also matches convention for uniformity across analyses. Also, include a couple of examples
  • [Checks and Counters] same thing for **Priority Users** -> **Priority Attackers**
Do those^ for QC 1/2, good work on this
 
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Bughouse

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yup just barely still a guaranteed kill haha

252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Attack: 247-292 (102.4 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And anyway, I would actually support the neutral SpDef option for this reason:

0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Attack: 110-130 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-Attack: 124-146 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Out of everything likely to occur to Deo-A that doesn't immediately bring it to its sash, this is probably the most likely. (and yes that's singles damage, not doubles damage..... but it's still more likely than anything else I can think of...)

Physical priority wise, anything kills once Sash is broken except maybe an Ice Shard from Abomasnow, which likely doesn't even exist now that Ninetales is around.
 

Haruno

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  • [Set] Only use Rash - with the Parental Bond nerf, Rash > Mild gives Deo-A a chance to survive Jolly Mega Kang Fake Out in the event Psychic Terrain is not up and for some reason you decide not to Protect. This will basically never happen, but it's not worth confusing newer readers over a choice between two natures when one is theoretically somewhat better. EDIT: I messed up the calc, my bad. Just leave this as-is with both natures available.
  • [Moves] Give a couple of examples of Steels you're hitting with Superpower (Heatran and Ferrothorn would be my choices), and mention that it can take out a weakened Mega Kangaskhan, which is no longer a huge threat to Deo-A with Psychic Terrain available
  • [Set Details] When you talk about max Special Attack, change the mention of Dark Pulse to Shadow Ball to reflect the change you made to the set
  • [Usage Tips] "Use Protect" -> "Use Detect"
  • [Other Options] miltankmilk's Nasty Plot set has shown to be viable enough to get a mention here (Nasty Plot / Psychic / Shadow Ball), and with Psychic Terrain boosting Psychic you don't even need the boost a lot of the time.
  • [Checks and Counters] **Scarf Users** -> **Faster Pokemon** is more generalized to include Pheromosa and also matches convention for uniformity across analyses. Also, include a couple of examples
  • [Checks and Counters] same thing for **Priority Users** -> **Priority Attackers**
Do those^ for QC 1/2, good work on this
okay done bar miltankmilk's set which i've never seen work and sounds like a straight rip off from the ubers one, but mind showing me replays against good players where that set accomplished something that the normal sash set wouldn't have won in? Also I asked in dubs room about phero and we all agreed it was kinda just a meme set/something no one would ever use on a serious team so i ignored that and just left it as scarf lando/lele.


yup just barely still a guaranteed kill haha

252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Attack: 247-292 (102.4 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And anyway, I would actually support the neutral SpDef option for this reason:

0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Attack: 110-130 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-Attack: 124-146 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Out of everything likely to occur to Deo-A that doesn't immediately bring it to its sash, this is probably the most likely. (and yes that's singles damage, not doubles damage..... but it's still more likely than anything else I can think of...)

Physical priority wise, anything kills once Sash is broken except maybe an Ice Shard from Abomasnow, which likely doesn't even exist now that Ninetales is around.
0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-Attack: 82-97 (34 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Jirachi Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Deoxys-Attack: 92-109 (38.1 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


??????? I mean if i'm being really generous I guess it dies to less rounds of hail which is better than nothing I guess? Are there any other things that won't reasonably ko deo-a outright. I don't know why you even bothered posting calcs and said it was singles damage to try and make your point more convincing when those calcs are deceiving. I mean I guess I could do -def since again I don't see the distinction really.
 

Pocket

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Perhaps not worthy of a slash, but arming Deoxys-A with both Psychic and Psycho Boost is an option to take advantage of Lele's Psychic Terrain, as Psychic will allow it to net some KOs while preserving its SpA. You do sacrifice an important coverage in the process though, which is why I think it may not deserve a slash with Knock Off, etc. Memoric used this set to ladder to the top. Ofc, this is only useful when paired with Tapu Lele, which would be the majority of the case.
 

talkingtree

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okay done bar miltankmilk's set which i've never seen work and sounds like a straight rip off from the ubers one, but mind showing me replays against good players where that set accomplished something that the normal sash set wouldn't have won in? Also I asked in dubs room about phero and we all agreed it was kinda just a meme set/something no one would ever use on a serious team so i ignored that and just left it as scarf lando/lele.
As for the Nasty Plot set, it's mostly nice against Jirachi, and I don't have any replays from gen 7 but here's the set beating Level 56, where standard would have struggled slightly more: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gold-doublesou-117013. I'm cool with leaving it off for now if you're still unconvinced as I was on the fence, but as Pocket pointed out Psychic could have a mention of its own in OO either way.

Phero was a bad example so I apologize, but **Faster Pokemon** also covers set-up sweepers like DD Mence or QD Volc so that's another reason it's better than **Scarf Users**. I know that you made the change already but I felt like you deserved another explanation.
 

Haruno

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Perhaps not worthy of a slash, but arming Deoxys-A with both Psychic and Psycho Boost is an option to take advantage of Lele's Psychic Terrain, as Psychic will allow it to net some KOs while preserving its SpA. You do sacrifice an important coverage in the process though, which is why I think it may not deserve a slash with Knock Off, etc. Memoric used this set to ladder to the top. Ofc, this is only useful when paired with Tapu Lele, which would be the majority of the case.
Where would it go and why? ?_? and I think I made it clear that tapu lele is pretty much mandatory for deo-a which I feel is a fair statement. Am I just going to leave it as knock off / shadow ball / ice beam / psychic?

?_? I know memoric didn't replace psycho boost for it, so it's not that.

As for the Nasty Plot set, it's mostly nice against Jirachi, and I don't have any replays from gen 7 but here's the set beating Level 56, where standard would have struggled slightly more: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gold-doublesou-117013. I'm cool with leaving it off for now if you're still unconvinced as I was on the fence, but as Pocket pointed out Psychic could have a mention of its own in OO either way.

Phero was a bad example so I apologize, but **Faster Pokemon** also covers set-up sweepers like DD Mence or QD Volc so that's another reason it's better than **Scarf Users**. I know that you made the change already but I felt like you deserved another explanation.
Ehhh I'm still on the fence since that was in oras and honestly it doesn't sound too great on paper since deo-a's main flaws still exist such as no good spread moves, it wants to be in quick bursts so it's rarely staying in for extended periods of time, etc. If it does see some success in say the kickoff tour or more importantly SPL assuming lele isn't banned, I'd be fine just updating it then.

Ah kk, well I'll just edit in set up sweepers as well since it seems simple enough and worth clarifying.
 

Pocket

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what I meant was [Psycho Boost | Psychic | Superpower | Protect]. I wouldn't slash it, but mention under Moves or OO
 
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Overview
  • remember that you dont need to mention the specific numbers of the stats. it doesnt flow well, and that information is found at the top of the dex page.
Moves
  • why use knock off over shadow ball? when saying that it provides a bit of utility by removing an opponents item, specify that it works best for removing an opposing tapu lele's scarf. utility isnt what deoxys is meant for, though, so also emphasize knock off's good neutral coverage.
  • specify that ice cream is great also because deoxys can actually outspeed these pokemon a lot of the time, which most offensive boys cant do.
  • mention the reasoning for detect over protect, which is to avoid imprison shenanigans.
Team Options
  • the tapu lele + deoxys core is very weak to steel types such as aegislash and jirachi. steel killers work very well, such as charizard-y (or x?), mega gengar, landog, heatran
  • what specifically can kangaskhan do for deoxys? fake out is very useful, as it takes off a lot of pressure opposing deoxys, and can allow deoxys to play more aggresively. in return, deoxyys obliterates any fighting type that dares venture onto the field.
  • examples of redirectors? jirachi, amoonguss, togekiss,, probably not jirachi if your using lele
Other Options
  • life orb deoxys sounds really bad. i wouldnt list it.
  • use extremespeed only if you arent using lele for some reason
  • +speed nature also to beat the deoxys mirror
Checks & Counters
  • aegislash and celesteela is also a steel type :(
  • examples of psychic types? i know u say it in another point but probably say lele. also victini, cresselia(maybe), and necrozma
  • remember to mention phermosa as a faster pokemon
2/2
 
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Haruno

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Overview
  • remember that you dont need to mention the specific numbers of the stats. it doesnt flow well, and that information is found at the top of the dex page.
Moves
  • why use knock off over shadow ball? when saying that it provides a bit of utility by removing an opponents item, specify that it works best for removing an opposing tapu lele's scarf. utility isnt what deoxys is meant for, though, so also emphasize knock off's good neutral coverage.
  • specify that ice cream is great also because deoxys can actually outspeed these pokemon a lot of the time, which most offensive boys cant do.
  • mention the reasoning for detect over protect, which is to avoid imprison shenanigans.
Team Options
  • the tapu lele + deoxys core is very weak to steel types such as aegislash and jirachi. steel killers work very well, such as charizard-y (or x?), mega gengar, landog, heatran
  • what specifically can kangaskhan do for deoxys? fake out is very useful, as it takes off a lot of pressure opposing deoxys, and can allow deoxys to play more aggresively. in return, deoxyys obliterates any fighting type that dares venture onto the field.
  • examples of redirectors? jirachi, amoonguss, togekiss,, probably not jirachi if your using lele
Other Options
  • life orb deoxys sounds really bad. i wouldnt list it.
  • use extremespeed only if you arent using lele for some reason
  • +speed nature also to beat the deoxys mirror
Checks & Counters
  • aegislash and celesteela is also a steel type :(
  • examples of psychic types? i know u say it in another point but probably say lele. also victini, cresselia(maybe), and necrozma
  • remember to mention phermosa as a faster pokemon
2/2
fixed bar pheromossa since I've been told to not include unviable stuff. Memoric get on the bunny imo
 

Memoric

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Overview
  • should really say what kind of role it occupies on teams and what kind of teams Deo-A fits in (HO).
  • should say "coverage" instead of movepool since it only really uses a few moves, but these moves allow it to hit a lot of threats.
  • word the bulk line to instead say that it's essentially "forced intro running Focus Sash" in order to take a hit.
  • say that Tapu Lele is a top threat in particular and the Terrain lets it pressure much more with its psychic moves by boosting them.
Moves
  • you don't have to say the the psycho is boosted by terrain. aside from being elementary knowledge, it's going to be also conveniently mentioned in the overview. Say that it drops the SpA here
  • SPower: I recommend replacing Ferrothorn for another example for obvious reasons. For the latter part, I recommend wording it as just "super effective targets" so it can also fit other targets and not just MKang; Kyu-B comes to mind.
  • "which would otherwise threaten and ohko you otherwise" isn't necessary on the Knock Off line, as is "Much weaker however after psycho boost."
  • Ice Beam: "while also outspeeding those pokemon under ordinary circumstances." is quite obvious and isn't necessary.
Usage Tips
  • you should yet again say what role this can fulfill as well as what team styles it fits on, but this time you go more in-depth
  • this particularly key about Deo-A: mention about using it in order to keep faster threats at bay for its teammates by using the pressure it applies, or something like that
  • saying something about it not being as effective against foes it can't generate a KO on such as bulky threats or resists or something like that.
  • say something about Pressure (the ability) also letting it scout for Scarfers in lead matchups.
  • the last line is worded really awkwardly
Team Options
  • Don't try to angle something as "essential" because as much as possible, we want to let people use good pokemon without forcing them to use them. Just say that it's a really damn good partner. Also, just say that they're both beaten by Steel-types, going in-depth about that in TO is not ideal.
  • Redirectors aren't to be mentioned in non-set-up Pokemon, and Deoxys-A is no exception. When taken into perspective, the effective usability they provide is essentially the same for every other Pokemon and is not specific to Deo-A.
  • Chex to Steels and chex to Psychics?
OO: Add that Psychic is only really usable in Psychic Terrain so say that this needs Tapu Lele

3/2
 

talkingtree

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Once you implement Memoric's changes, go ahead and write this up, since I have nothing to add. Or do it while you write up, I don't really care, just as long as this gets written soon!
 

talkingtree

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I'll give you one more week to write this up but then I'll have to reassign, so get this done please!
 

talkingtree

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Ok I've given you more than enough time so I'm reassigning this. If you want it back feel free to PM me.
 

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