Deoxys E Discussion

[Peanut-Lover]

Seeing as I couldn't find any topics on this, it is now official - Deoxys E is considered OverUsed as opposed to uber

Aside from http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35137 (I don't agree with Deoxys-Def being allowed either), there are no threads.

Mekkah, to an extent said the following in the Uber/OU tier discussion - how well a pokemon does in its tier doesn't determine whether it is moved down - It is a question of "does the pokemon overpower the lower tier, or does it have sufficient counters?". If it does indeed have sufficient counters, then it can be moved down.

In my opinion, Deoxys-Speed is an overpowered Ninjask without access to Swords dance or baton pass

Lets look at typical counters, shall we?
~Blissey - Say hi to life orb or choice band superpower
~Skarmory - Thunderbolt. Bye :D
~Weezing - Zen headbutt, psycho boost
~Bronzong - can take on pretty much any version not with fire punch, though it can handle that.
~Cresselia - Shadow Ball becomes a problem
~Weavile - depending on the set, Deoxys has a move in its arsenal for each variation - ice shard won't ohko, while deoxys then deals a super effective blow. All others are handled by what seems redundant - extremespeed. Non-extremespeed variants must be wary of choice scarf night slash, as they will go first.

The point is that Deoxys has a widely varying movepool that with luck and prediction will dismantle all teams. However, we thought this with T-tar, and look at how that turned out :S

So, given this information, do we need to re-examine the tier lists? Now that there are (supposedly) counters, should Smogon reconfigure the tier lists to allow for Deoxys-Speed? This would mean an overhaul of the analysis I presume, and analyses of all other OU and BL Pokemon.

To differentiate between this thread and the other thread that I have cited, Deoxys forms, please do not discuss other forms of Deoxys in terms of moving them to OU.

 

[Bam]

A quick question - where does it say that Deoxys-E is officially in the OU tier. I'll edit in the rest of my post later once that's answered ;).

Edit: Thanks LGY. I don't have that much of a problem with it - it will change the metagame just like anything else coming down would, just not the same amount. Scarfers will have to run more speed, and Cresselia or whatever else counters it will probably rise along with Dugtrio use, but other than that, I don't have much else to say. If it does officially become OU, I don't think that the metagame will become centered upon it any more than it is on some of the other players.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

A quick question - where does it say that Deoxys-E is officially in the OU tier. I'll edit in the rest of my post later once that's answered ;).

Nothing "official" from Smogon but it's being allowed in ladder matches on the main Shoddy server for the time being.

 

[Sunday]

Lol. Well I really have no problem with it as my team before it was introduced into the Shoddy ladder could counter it quite easily anyway. :)

 

[Goodbar]

Cool negator's deoxys' value just went up tenfold :P

Yea it's movepool is quite amazing, its good that its fairly weak. I think the majority of the deoxys will run something like bolt-beam, superpower, and psycho boost, which makes Cresselia, Bronzong, Jirachi, and Metagross pretty decent counters. It's gonna be well used at least, but at least its most powerful move is 4x resisted by a few good pokes

 

[Sunday]

I think it won't see so much use when people come down off the hype of "OMFG I can use Doexys in OU, which means I have to!"

 

[DawnBringer]

I still think being able to outrun the fastest choice scarfers without one and can utilise a Life-Orb instead is far too good for the metagame.

And alot of people will have to adjust to this if they can since this guy's movepool is so great =/

 

[Kira]

The choice banded one can be defeated with some prediction, but the life orbed one (thank god it cant 2HKO blissey, otherwise it would dismantle my team) is way too good. Nothing outspeeds the damn thing and it's movepool is so vast that it can get a super effective hit on most things. The only way I can defeat the thing is to toxic stall it with blissey, or paralyze it.

 

[Bourbon]

It has 90 base atk stats... its fast but nothing really special. Pursuit would totally own it from anything that doesn't get OHKOd. Life Orb variants are most deadly IMO, as the choice sets are usually walled by something specific (blissey or skarmory mostly)

 

[Sunday]

If it gets pyaralised then it's basicly useless... That's probably the best counter lol...

 

[tdub13]

It has 90 base atk stats... its fast but nothing really special. Pursuit would totally own it from anything that doesn't get OHKOd. Life Orb variants are most deadly IMO, as the choice sets are usually walled by something specific (blissey or skarmory mostly)

How many Pursuit Users can switch in w/o risking an OHKO?

 

[Kira]

Anyway I will leave it up to those with more experience to judge whether it is OU or not. On a side note, Deozys LG is way too good to be OU imo. decent support moveset, great defensive stats, and recover make him a force that will be near impossible to stop.

 

[Eric94skate]

Cresselia and Bronzong are, in my opinion, the best counter out there for Deoxys. Shadow ball is a 2-4HKO (?) on cresselia and fire punch doesnt even 2HKO bronzong before it gets a gyro ball in the face. At first I was excited at Deoxys being allowed in OU play but when I started using it I realized how useless it was. Once it's paralyzed it's done and its walled by a lot of pokemon. It is true that its movepool is wide and diverse but with only 95 in each attack stat Deoxys-S won't be doing much even with a choice item.

 

[xcfrisco]

Psychic/Steel are the only real Deoxys counters. Metagross has pursuit too.

 

[Bam]

Or you can just use a defensive U-turner such as Uxie and U-turn to Dugtrio or anything with Sucker Punch. Uxie can take all of its hits like a champ.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Extremespeed would go before Sucker Punch since Deoxys would most likely be faster.

 

[Macho Machamp]

Deoxys does near to nothing to Spiritomb while it gets shadow sneaks in the face.

 

[Bogmire]

Deoxys does near to nothing to Spiritomb while it gets shadow sneaks in the face.

Sucker Punch? lol

 

[scwizard]

Metagross is a decent switchin on Deoxys E.

Unbanning it on shoddy hasn't caused any whining at all. I see no reason why it shouldn't be OU instead of uber.

 

[SynysterCola]

IMO, DeoxysE is a Pokemon with a lot of potential, but is toned down by the fact that it's essentially a more fragile Crobat or something with more speed and less power.

True, the speed comes in handy when taking down certain scarfers (like Gengar) but that's it special use. Ninjask's special use is to get a Sub in, and baton pass extra speed.

I think any Deoxys E user is going to want to aim for OHKO and then play hit and run. With 50/90/90 in HP/Def/SpDef, it can't afford to take a hit with the low HP, especially with Stealth Rock, Spikes, Sandstorm, etc running all over the place.

Is it broken? No, but it comes close...kinda like Draco Meteor on something like Garchomp.

 

[Notty]

Uhh...

Pursuit is in no way a threat to Deoxys-S.

Tyranitar and Weavile eat Superpower, Heracross gets nailed by Psycho Boost, and Metagross (who *never* uses Pursuit outside of Ubers hinthint) can be dealt with by using HP Fire.

And Deoxys-S doesn't have 50/50/50 Defenses, he has 50/90/90 Defenses. He's not going to shrivel and die to anything that looks at him funny.

 

[Slice n Dice]

Trick Room Cb tar will teach deoxys-s a lesson it will never forget.

 

[Invective]

ima go ahead and say what others have said, basically any steel/psychic
can switch into it with impunity and the zong walls it totally, metagross can threaten a pursuut, and jirachi can sub for LO damage. but other than that, it is a beast. i watched a few games on shoddy and saw it sweep many a team late game, and turn around a few 1-3 battles and win. i'm gonna have to say its too strong for OU.

@^, if only he could switch in without fear of being wrecked by superpower.

 

[scwizard]

Uhh...

Pursuit is in no way a threat to Deoxys-S.

Tyranitar and Weavile eat Superpower, Heracross gets nailed by Psycho Boost, and Metagross (who *never* uses Pursuit outside of Ubers hinthint) can be dealt with by using HP Fire.

And Deoxys-S doesn't have 50/50/50 Defenses, he has 50/90/90 Defenses. He's not going to shrivel and die to anything that looks at him funny.

HP fire is stupid to run on Deoxys, it makes it far weaker.
Metagross could totally survive the HP fire.

 

[astrohawke]

This still isn't fast enough to be totally awesome though. It needs some major speed investment just to outspeed the most common adamant scarfchomp. It would have to go into +speed nature to outspeed scarfers that are faster than that like gengar, jolly scarfchomp among others. This is a little too much speed investment for my liking especially with its mediocre attack stats. Also if it wants to 2hko blissey and not be walled by the most OU pokemon, it needs way too much attack investment that its 3 other special attacks will suffer.

In my opinion, it may do better not aiming to outspeed the really fast scarfer. I mean people see its speed and automatically think scarf killer but the reality is the EV investment into speed is way too costly for it. With something like 40 speed is can outspeed scarf heracross which is all it needs. Then the rest can be dumped into the much needs attack stats and it makes a fairly decent wall breaker.