Dethink to Survive (peaked #32)

[Requiem[9]]

Introduction
So, with the end of everything drawing near and some time on my hands, I figured that I'd post another RMT to figure out where I've gone wrong this generation. This is one of my favorite teams that I've built thus far, and I've been pretty successful with it. Since building it, school's started, so I haven't had much time to ladder with it and don't have many results. But even with so little time, I've gone on pretty large winning streaks and managed to get to 1480 CRE with the first version of the team, with a Gallade as the lead. As it stands, I feel reasonably confident that, had I more time to play, I could have gotten much higher. Recently, with this version of the team, I did some laddering and managed to get to pretty high on the leaderboard, which is new for me; although, having managed it, I don't really have the time or nerves to get higher, and have dropped quite a bit since. But, especially considering what a mediocre player I am, I'm really happy with the team. This plays a lot better than most teams I've built, and I always feel really comfortable playing it, but there are a few bits that I don't really quite like and can definitely be improved. I'd like to have made at least one really good team by the end of DPPt, and this feels like my best shot at that.

The title is the account that I laddered this with, and the names come from The Unconsoled, if you're wondering about either. The names don't have anything to do with my team, but they sound cool and I like naming my teams. And, without further ado:

At a Glance

The Team

Christoff (Heatran) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock

This was originally an LO Azelf, but at some point I realized that Heatran and Azelf lose to more or less the same leads -- Heatran, Aerodactyl -- and Heatran beats Swampert much more cleanly. I decided to use a Specs variant instead of LO because, when I've used LOtran, it always seems that it gets broken down too easily, between Life Orb and possible opposing Stealth Rock, and it doesn't seem like you get that much more utility out of it: when they switch to a counter, you want to SR and switch out anyway, and if you kill something, the other player isn't going to switch into something that you can set up SR on. More than that, it's slow, and Specs lets you speedtie, or flat outspeed, their Heatran if it's needed; both my checks to Heatran are choiced, so I saw this having some utility.

As far as playing, it plays basically the same role as Azelf did (at the bottom, if you're interested in a more elaborate explanation): it kills the other lead and gets up SR if it can, and comes back later in the game for more. It's worse than Azelf because Azelf can actually be a serviceable lategame cleaner, but better because it's not Pursuit-weak and substantially bulkier. It has more midgame value, too, being able to wall Celebi and SubSeed Shaymin.

The EVs are pretty basic, to guarantee that speedtie. I'm wondering if I should run Modest for more power though, since I haven't needed it at all. Again, if anyone has more experience with it and wants to help, that would be great!

Mr Ryder (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 160 HP/252 Atk/96 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aqua Tail
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

I first made this team with the intention of trying CBtar out. I figured that it would be okay, with a bit more bulk to switch into the now ubiquitous Heatran and very strong attacks. I figured that if Scarftar, which now seems so logical, was once a gimmick, then there must have been quite a few things going for CB. And, because it's so uncommon, that it could easily rip through teams once it gets in, since most teams should be used to the weak attacks of Scarftar (mine included). And, I was sort of right. It hasn't been revolutionary, but it's been very strong in many games, severely denting the opposing core, and gives me a solid check for pokemon like Zapdos. Many teams run Skamory as their main check, which Stone Edge 2HKOs, getting rid of an annoying pokemon. A lot of players are caught off guard by the power, and it's been a huge help. It also wrecks Rotom, which is super useful.

I keep thinking about changing this to scarf to fix my Starmie weak, but I like it too much as is. The EVs are from the analysis -- I think the speed is for Skarmory? -- and there might be a better way of setting them up, if someone wants to tell me.

Stephen Hoffman (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic

When I made the team with CBtar in mind, I knew that I wanted a Jirachi to lure Heatran, Jirachi's main nemesis and CBtar's main switchin. Because of this, it made sense for it to have Wish. Once I'd figure that out, and looked through the analysis for sets with Wish, I knew that this was the one. It gives me pretty solid bulk, a check for threats like Agility Lucario and a second check to Offensive DD Gyara. It passes wishes and baits Heatran like it's supposed to, but it also gives me a lategame sweeper and a threat in its own right. Gives me another big threat against Stall, which I hate, and against Crocune, which I also hate. For this team, Jirachi does everything; it checks tons of threats, supports my team, and sweeps lategame.

I'm extremely happy with it, and don't know if there's anything I would change. Kudos to EW, or whoever it was, for coming up with this pokemon. Speed EVs are from the analysis, although I'm not sure what for, but I like having as much bulk on this as possible; the way I play it, it usually comes in early game against things like Scizor or predicted Flygon U-turns, Wishes when it can, so the bulk is really useful.

Boris (Starmie) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Trick
- Surf

I use Starmie the way most teams use Jirachi; only it's stronger, because it doesn't have to rely on elemental punches to do damage. It's a bit weaker to hazards, however, and it's much more frail, but I'm already using Jirachi and Flygon, the other comparable pokemon, doesn't fit very well, and it does okay. I put Starmie on when I noticed an Infernape weak, and changed it Scarf when I noticed a DDpoke weak. It's timid because I expected to trick my Scarf a lot, to get Blissey and such, and wanted to be able to check Infernape and Gengar even after having tricked it. A neat bit of it being Timid is that it outspeeds BP Gliscor after a Rock Polish, so I don't lose to awful Dual Screens + Baton Pass teams. I don't know if does that with Modest too. Outspeeding the occasional scarfed Infernape is pretty useful, anyway. Modest might be better though; if anyone that has more experience with scarfed Starmie wants to inform me on the ins and outs of it, that would be great!

Other than that, the EVs and moves are pretty obvious. I have Surf because missing a Hydro Pump and getting swept by Infernape is no fun. I keep wanting to put Recovery or Rapid Spin on it, because Starmie is pretty useful and my team hates Spikes and gets rid of Rotom very easily, respectively. But, I really can't afford to lose Boltbeam, because of Dragonite/Gyarados, and Surf is a lot more useful for lategame cleaning than either Rapid Spin or Recover could be. As it stands, I usually just hide it or conserve it, unless my hand is somehow forced. It's cool because it takes an unexpected pokemon and makes it more unexpected, and makes it so Tyranitar doesn't come in on not-Surf and kill it. I clean with this thing a lot.

Sophie Ryder (Shaymin) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 200 HP/180 Spd/128 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power
- Seed Flare

I like Shaymin a lot; it's strong, it's pretty bulky, it's fast, it's not all that easy to switch into. This was originally a 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe spread, which is where the three attacks comes from, because speed and power is always good, and I wanted to clean with it lategame. I changed it quickly when I switched the lead to Azelf, in order to not get swept by lead Starmie. I haven't really noticed too much downside from the loss of attack or speed so far, in the few matches I've played with this version of the team, since it usually hits with super effective attacks, but I very well might, so I'm not sure about it because it's less effective against Suicune, a possible annoyance. I like the pokemon a lot, but the spread is liable to change. I'd been thinking about a bulkier spread for a while, anyway, so it's not awful, however.

As far as the set goes: I knew I wanted Leftovers because Shaymin would be my way of dealing with Suicune, and switching into water types in general, and I wanted survivability more than anything else, especially with the probable sandstorm. In the same vein, I knew I wanted Leech Seed, because, playing against it, it's one of the most annoying moves. Leech Seed + SR + attacks can really break down a team, and Shaymin's powerful regardless. Three attacks because they come in handy a lot, and getting flat-out walled by Heatran is not the best; Torment Heatran can be a bit of a pain to this team.

More generally, I think that most teams in this metagame are better with a grass type to switch into pokemon like Vaporeon and get momentum, and Shaymin does that well without being at all a dead weight otherwise, compared to Breloom, and Leech Seed is a great move.

NEW: I made my own EV spread after seeing that I do 30% to physically defensive Skarmory and 90% to specially defensive Scizor with the traditional one. The 200 HP EVs ensure that it's never OHKO'd by Hydro Pump + Ice Beam from LO Starmie, and the speed lets it beat Jolly Lucario and things designed to just beat Jolly Lucario. And then, everything else in SpA to not get walled by physical pokemon with a super effective attack. (It still only does 37-40% to Skarm, but that's a lot closer to a 2HKO, which has actually been invaluable.)

Brodsky (Gliscor) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Roost
- Toxic

I like pairing Gliscor with Tyranitar, and it lets me get away with less speed on my Jirachi. Other than that, Gliscor is Gliscor. It makes stall easier, like Gliscor is supposed to do, and the moveset and ability are pretty obvious. There's not a ton to say; it gives me checks against Metagross and Tyranitar, spreads status, breaks stall, is annoying in general. Haxes it up. It's not great because it lets the ever more common SubSplit Gengars come in and set up for free, but usually I can work my way around that with decent play, and there's not anything that fills the same niche as Gliscor. If someone can suggest something better, that lets me deal with Gengar, however, I'd love it. I've even been thinking about Ice Fang on this, for other Gliscor and to have an attack against Gengar, because heavy stall is much more rare and when I had Stealth Rock over Toxic and Gallade, I didn't really miss Toxic all too much.

Old Pokemon

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Marie LaSalle (Azelf) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Psychic
- Explosion

I'm of the opinion that picking the right lead for the metagame is crucial, and with Machamps and anti-Machamps and anti-anti-Machamps, this spot has given me a lot of trouble. I knew that, for this team, I wanted an attacking lead; I didn't want to use Colbur Azelf all that much, since it just gets up SR and threatens Explosion for momentum, which is fine, but I wanted a lead that could kill the other lead and possibly come back later to clean up. At first, this was Gallade, but I ended up feeling that, especially with fewer Machamp leads amongst better players (because everyone has a lead designed to beat Machamp), it was underwhelming. Most players just switched to a Gyarados or physical Skarmory, and I just got worn down by LO and they got free hazards or attacks. There are matches in which Gallade has been fantastic, but there have been a lot when it's done nothing, too. Similarly, I wanted a lead that could beat Skarmory and Forretress, because this team doesn't like Spikes. That's where Azelf came in. Metagross has been getting common again, too, and being able to get a surprise kill is nice. At matches up pretty well against a lot of leads, and can come back later to threaten Explosion and fire off Psychics. It has SR, which lets me put Toxic on Gliscor. I suddenly lose to Heatran and Aerodactyl though, so I'm not completely happy with it; I don't want show CBtar or Starmie too early, and with Azelf, I have to. Starmie also screws me pretty badly, now, against which I have to switch to Shaymin and have some chance of living a Hydro Pump + Ice Beam (I need to fix the EVs to make sure I live).

This is a pretty recent change over from LO Gallade, so there are probably lots of holes opened, and I am very open to suggestions as to improvements.

Named after Marie because she's very stylish and cool and Azelf is too.

Threats
Offensively, Starmie and Infernape are big pains, because I don't have anything that can reliably switch into them; Shaymin is 2HKO'd by Ice Beam, and having Starmie die to a U-turn and getting swept when Infernape comes back in would not be fun. Most of the time, I've forced to sacrifice a pokemon to them, but they can be managed by predicting well -- not letting them come in on anything but a revenge-kill -- and using the momentum that forcing them out, since a good player will preserve them, gives you to damage the rest of their team. Infernape's especially annoying as a lead, because I have to show Starmie early, and Endeavour variants will one-for-one with it and wreck Ttar on the Vacuum Wave. Thankfully, it's less common in that capacity.

Defensively, Skarmory is a huge huge problem. Again, good player's won't switch it in on Tyranitar wantonly, and despite every single member of my team having a super effective attack against it (or Taunt), it somehow does not die. It's not a big deal with SR, since that'll wear it down, but if my rocks have been spun and I can't get them up again, it just laughs as I can't kill it. This was a big problem with Azelf over Heatran, but hopefully it'll be better with the current setup.

If anyone has suggestions for any of these without changing the core of the team too much, please let me know!

Conclusions
Anyway, thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[Requiem[9]]

Some threat list later, maybe?

 

[Smith]

Hey I got your PM and I just love this team honestly. People forget how potent CB Tyranitar is and in this metagame it is just brutal. There are some issues though and I think I have some ideas. Firstly, this may be news to you but you have 4 bug weaknesses and only one resist. This may not seem relevant until you consider U turners which can be a real pain for this team. Flygon, who's u turn is normally not powerful, is an excellent check to both members of your main offensive core and actually places some heavy dents in the team. Scizor is almost an even bigger issue, as nobody is going to want to switch into his u turn except Gliscor. But Gliscor actually has a lot of stress placed on him on this team, covering this and pursuit users. The only dark or ghost resist you have is Tyranitar, who is not an ideal switch in to a Scizor or a Gengar or something- although Gengar is actually handled pretty well on this team, nobody likes switching into his powerful shadow balls. I think you can understand that I am going to have to change a member or two.

Azelf stands out to me on this team. He seems to compound the weaknesses you already possess while doing little for the team's strategy. I think that using a Bulky DD Gyarados over Azelf should help you a lot! What Gyarados does is give you an excellent check to Scizor and Flygon (although some pack thunder punch nowadays and you must be careful). In addition, it works famously with the core already in place. Tyranitar and Gyarados are an excellent combination, Tyranitar dealing with Rotom and Skarmory with some prediction, and Gyarados dealing with Scizor, Jirachi and Hippowdon. WishCM Jirachi and Gyarados work awesome as well- look in the team options of the set, Gyarados is the first one! He sets up on Heatran or Celebi or Swampert (if you run taunt, which you should consider) and appreciates wish support to an extreme degree.

This does mean you are requiring something in the lead slot. While less than ideal, I think Gliscor would work well as a lead, with Stealth rock and u turn over taunt and toxic. I don't think this team will have trouble with stall, as you have several options in beating it (Gyarados sweeps once Rotom is elimated (Tyranitar), Shaymin can actually beat down Blissey, Starmie can Trick). Machamp leads are managable if you play smart with Gyarados' Intimidate and Jirachi's Psychic, and although they will take damage, they can wish it off later- and anyways as you have said, Machamp leads are declining as the metagame has adapted to them.

That's all the advice I got, I swear this rate took me about twice as long as most because for some reason I was thinking of using Heatran and/or Scizor or something- but I think this is much better and changes less of the team's structure. I hope this helps.

 

[Requiem[9]]

Hey I got your PM and I just love this team honestly. People forget how potent CB Tyranitar is and in this metagame it is just brutal. There are some issues though and I think I have some ideas. Firstly, this may be news to you but you have 4 bug weaknesses and only one resist. This may not seem relevant until you consider U turners which can be a real pain for this team. Flygon, who's u turn is normally not powerful, is an excellent check to both members of your main offensive core and actually places some heavy dents in the team. Scizor is almost an even bigger issue, as nobody is going to want to switch into his u turn except Gliscor. But Gliscor actually has a lot of stress placed on him on this team, covering this and pursuit users. The only dark or ghost resist you have is Tyranitar, who is not an ideal switch in to a Scizor or a Gengar or something- although Gengar is actually handled pretty well on this team, nobody likes switching into his powerful shadow balls. I think you can understand that I am going to have to change a member or two.

Azelf stands out to me on this team. He seems to compound the weaknesses you already possess while doing little for the team's strategy. I think that using a Bulky DD Gyarados over Shaymin should help you a lot! What Gyarados does is give you an excellent check to Scizor and Flygon (although some pack thunder punch nowadays and you must be careful). In addition, it works famously with the core already in place. Tyranitar and Gyarados are an excellent combination, Tyranitar dealing with Rotom and Skarmory with some prediction, and Gyarados dealing with Scizor, Jirachi and Hippowdon. WishCM Jirachi and Gyarados work awesome as well- look in the team options of the set, Gyarados is the first one! He sets up on Heatran or Celebi or Swampert (if you run taunt, which you should consider) and appreciates wish support to an extreme degree.

This does mean you are requiring something in the lead slot. While less than ideal, I think Gliscor would work well as a lead, with Stealth rock and u turn over taunt and toxic. I don't think this team will have trouble with stall, as you have several options in beating it (Gyarados sweeps once Rotom is elimated (Tyranitar), Shaymin can actually beat down Blissey, Starmie can Trick). Machamp leads are managable if you play smart with Gyarados' Intimidate and Jirachi's Psychic, and although they will take damage, they can wish it off later- and anyways as you have said, Machamp leads are declining as the metagame has adapted to them.

That's all the advice I got, I swear this rate took me about twice as long as most because for some reason I was thinking of using Heatran and/or Scizor or something- but I think this is much better and changes less of the team's structure. I hope this helps.

It's kind of funny that you point out the bug weakness, actually, because I really haven't noticed. I think that the main thing is that common U-turners can't really switch too often into most members of this team; Flygon's U-turn is too weak to do anything to anything but Starmie, and I can either Jirachi or Gliscor into it, depending on the dictates of the match, since neither takes more than 12%. On Tyranitar it risks taking 80% from a CB Pursuit and doing 30% back. Scizor gets worn down by SR and only really threatens anything on a revenge kill on Tyranitar.

I do like your suggestion though. I'd been thinking about finding a way of taking advantage of dead Rotoms, and a DD Gyara seems like a good idea. The main thing that I'm worried about, however, is that it: gives me an SR weak pokemon and makes dealing with pokemon like Vaporeon much more difficult. Maybe a Zapdos would be another idea?

I have to admit some aversion to the idea, because having pokemon weak to SR is annoying, especially one without reliable recovery, when it's been working out okay otherwise, but I'll definitely test it! Thanks for rating!

 

[Requiem[9]]

So, I updated the team a bit. I'm not sure if this counts as a bump or not?

I switched Azelf for Heatran for reasons I've hopefully explained okay. I just felt that Azelf didn't do enough too much of the time, and Heatran has been working pretty okay. Hopefully it doesn't leave me with a gaping weakness to anything.

Then, I changed Shaymin's EV spread because I wanted more SpA and didn't need that much HP or speed.

I've had time to play for the first time in a long time, because it's homecoming weekend for our school, and managed to get it, with Heatran, to #48 on the account Dethink to Survive in an hour or so (my second time on the leaderboard!). I've gone pretty much undefeated, save a game or two in which I played badly against a great player, and am even happier with it. It's still only 1480 or so, but that means a lot more with the ladder deflated like it is, I feel, and, again, I might be able to get higher. Having an RMT with the team might impair that a bit, but the leaderboard's not a big deal and I definitely don't care about it as much as having a good team. But, I have homecoming to prepare for, so not now, at least.

And, I tried Gyarados over Shaymin, but I didn't like it all too much: it felt too defensive, and there were some games were I killed Rotom and got 2 DDs and swept, but there were a lot in which it didn't do much more than die from SR, while Shaymin consistently does a ton for this team. (Not to mention covering Starmie leads; I didn't see them in any of the games with Gyarados, though.) I rarely use Gyarados, though, generally only having one water type and preferring Starmie or Vaporeon or Milotic even, so I might be playing it poorly. If anyone plays this and has contrary results, please let me know and I will figure out how to play Gyarados, I guess.

Then, I updated the threats a bit with stuff I've really noticed.

Lastly, I changed the nickname theme to get more boys into the mix, because it felt wrong having Heatran, Gliscor, or Tyranitar named after girls. I changed the title to match, I don't know if anyone cares.

 

[Faladran]

Hi Requiem, sorry for the late response. As stated by Smith (who has defeated me once again in terms of promptness), this is a very solid team, and I really think that there aren't any major weaknesses left to be addressed. With that in mind, I noticed that you've recently swapped your lead to a Choice Specs Heatran. While SpecsTran remains a great lead, I find this set to be superior in most situations due to its ability to still net the same important KO's while giving you the freedom to switch attacks:

Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 172 HP/84 Spe/252 SpA
Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass
- Explosion

This is Phillip7086's LO Heatran set. I've been recommending it to several different people lately due to how well it functions in the current metagame. A Life Orb Overheat still OHKOs Machamp leads, and HP Grass gets the surprise kill on Swampert. Stealth Rock is kept of course, but is much easier to use now that you won't find yourself locked into it upon use. Explosion gives teams that rely on special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax a hard time, and can allow you to open up a sweep for Jirachi or Starmie. It is also generally a better option than Earth Power, which requires you predicting an opponent's switch to their own Heatran in order to work. Alternatively, a Modest nature with the same EV spread and moveset can be used, which still manages to get the OHKO on Blissey even without Stealth Rock damage.

Good luck with your team!

 

[Requiem[9]]

Hi Requiem, sorry for the late response. As stated by Smith (who has defeated me once again in terms of promptness), this is a very solid team, and I really think that there aren't any major weaknesses left to be addressed. With that in mind, I noticed that you've recently swapped your lead to a Choice Specs Heatran. While SpecsTran remains a great lead, I find this set to be superior in most situations due to its ability to still net the same important KO's while giving you the freedom to switch attacks:

Heatran (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 172 HP/84 Spe/252 SpA
Mild Nature (+SpA, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Grass
- Explosion

This is Phillip7086's LO Heatran set. I've been recommending it to several different people lately due to how well it functions in the current metagame. A Life Orb Overheat still OHKOs Machamp leads, and HP Grass gets the surprise kill on Swampert. Stealth Rock is kept of course, but is much easier to use now that you won't find yourself locked into it upon use. Explosion gives teams that rely on special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax a hard time, and can allow you to open up a sweep for Jirachi or Starmie. It is also generally a better option than Earth Power, which requires you predicting an opponent's switch to their own Heatran in order to work. Alternatively, a Modest nature with the same EV spread and moveset can be used, which still manages to get the OHKO on Blissey even without Stealth Rock damage.

Good luck with your team!

Thanks for rating at all, though! And, yeah, I've been going really back and forth on whether to have Specstran or LOtran; I actually just had a battle where I was using Specs and some guy switched from Swampert to Roserade on my HP Grass, and I was biting myself for not having LO. (I probably should have SR'd, and it's uncommon, but it still wasn't fun.) The extra survivability has helped a lot in other battles, however, and there's nothing more discouraging than losing 10% for nothing, so I'm still testing both variants at the moment.

As for Earth Power vs. Explosion, I've got no idea. There are a ton more slow Heatrans these days, though, and for this team I feel that the utility against those, is a lot better than being able to blow up on Blissey or Snorlax, so far, since I have so many checks and ways to take advantage of those.

Thanks again for the rate!

 

[Philip7086]

Rating by request.

Hi Requiem[9], very nice team you got here! I actually like it a lot, and can't think of too many weaknesses. One of the biggest weaknesses I can think of are things like Agility Luke or Agility Metagross, but with the bulk on your Shaymin, you should be able to survive and deal hefty damage. The other major thing to look out for is letting Starmie getting Pursuited, because after that you are actually quite weak against most Dragon Dancers. I could make some suggestions to patch up those weaknesses, but unfortunately it would take away from the team's overall synergy IMO. Because of that, for this rate I'll just make minor preference suggestions. The first one I'll make is, I wanted to support the change from Specs Heatran to Life Orb Heatran, with Explosion over Earth Power. That's just what I personally feel is the best fit there. The next personal preference I have, is to give Shaymin Protect over Earth Power. Leech Seed + Protect is incredibly useful both for scouting, healing, and dealing damage. If you have Stealth Rock up, whatever's switching in is taking 37.5% guaranteed with Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Protect. More if the Pokemon doesn't have Leftovers and takes SS damage. The downside to this is, you lose a powerful move against Agility Luke and Metagross, and a way of hitting Heatran. So at the end of the day, this is up to you. Another thing I wanted to suggest was possibly using Modest on Starmie instead of Timid. For the most part, you won't be outspeeding many more threats, and the power with Modest is very welcome. Of course, the downside to this is that if you use Trick, you no longer outpace things like Gengar and other base 110's.

All in all, this is probably the most useless rate I've posted, lol, because the team is very solid to begin with. Instead of helping you out with a groundbreaking rate, I figured I'll give a nod to this team by giving you a Luvdisc :). Great job man, and good luck in the future!

 

[Requiem[9]]

Rating by request.

Hi Requiem[9], very nice team you got here! I actually like it a lot, and can't think of too many weaknesses. One of the biggest weaknesses I can think of are things like Agility Luke or Agility Metagross, but with the bulk on your Shaymin, you should be able to survive and deal hefty damage. The other major thing to look out for is letting Starmie getting Pursuited, because after that you are actually quite weak against most Dragon Dancers. I could make some suggestions to patch up those weaknesses, but unfortunately it would take away from the team's overall synergy IMO. Because of that, for this rate I'll just make minor preference suggestions. The first one I'll make is, I wanted to support the change from Specs Heatran to Life Orb Heatran, with Explosion over Earth Power. That's just what I personally feel is the best fit there. The next personal preference I have, is to give Shaymin Protect over Earth Power. Leech Seed + Protect is incredibly useful both for scouting, healing, and dealing damage. If you have Stealth Rock up, whatever's switching in is taking 37.5% guaranteed with Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Protect. More if the Pokemon doesn't have Leftovers and takes SS damage. The downside to this is, you lose a powerful move against Agility Luke and Metagross, and a way of hitting Heatran. So at the end of the day, this is up to you. Another thing I wanted to suggest was possibly using Modest on Starmie instead of Timid. For the most part, you won't be outspeeding many more threats, and the power with Modest is very welcome. Of course, the downside to this is that if you use Trick, you no longer outpace things like Gengar and other base 110's.

All in all, this is probably the most useless rate I've posted, lol, because the team is very solid to begin with. Instead of helping you out with a groundbreaking rate, I figured I'll give a nod to this team by giving you a Luvdisc :). Great job man, and good luck in the future!

Thanks a lot for the suggestions! I've been meaning to try Protect on Shaymin for a while, but, like you said, I haven't been sure if I really wanted to drop Earth Power and let Heatran switch in freely. Starmie is mostly an oh-shit button and a lategame cleaner than something that's meant to do damage (because, as you said, I become weak to a lot of pokemon without it), so I felt that Timid, to outspeed BP Gliscor and other Scarf Starmie, had a bit more utility. Although, it's another thing that I've been really back and forth on. Thankfully, Pursuit is getting a bit more rare, so I will definitely have to try it out.

Thanks even more for the compliments, though; they mean a lot coming from someone like you.