hey what the fuck
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Board Game Diplomacy at the Roulette Wheel - GAME OVER [2-way Germany + France draw]
- Thread starter Dead by Daylight
- Start date
congrats!
Sure, I accept that I was childish and I made mistakes, and for that I will apologise as I have done multiple times previously. But, you should get a grip. In my opinion, you were Whiny, you were a Dickhead, and you were especially Childish.
You were condescending during every turn, you are argumentative, hell, for god's sake you literally made thinly veiled attacks at the character of me and two other people. I did not bitch at the game, I did bitch at the host a bit but it was just a misunderstanding that we resolved, I did not try to verbally bully my way into an alliance, I did blow up in your chat but come on, you started the conversation after I stabbed you by spamming laughing emojis and calling me a clown. If you want to talk about being a Childish Dickhead, it obviously comes from personal experience.
Look at you, a grown ass man, being ridiculously condescending towards someone else over a fucking game. You are clearly trying to guilt trip me, while you know for a fact doom is checked out of the game and he told me to do whatever I want.
How am I terrible at the game? It takes 0 skill to hard ally another player then carebear them to a victory lol, and considering I was playing to my wincon in stopping you and not eventually get rolled over, I would think you, the person who is like "optimal this" "optimal that" would appreciate that. Turns out you are a hypocrite because you didn't even play to your wincon in the solo lol.
When you realize it isn't inevitable that nukes get rolled, your argument completely shatters. If you play well you can likely solo before all mods are rolled + nuke charge time.
If you didn't want to draw, don't draw. Don't blame it on someone else. My god, you should get a grip on yourself.
I would say you are the bad rubbish but I think that's an insult to rubbish. You have lost all my respect in one post. Incredible.
You too deserve a second chance!
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As an aside from all the bickering about draw culture and personal attacks, I wanted to make a little retrospective analysis post. Whether it was ultimately stupid or smart strategy to play a strongly alliance based game, me and @hal did a ton of analysis at a scale that no other countries had the opportunity to do, often planning out a year ahead and considering any negative modifiers as well. I just wanted to talk about our analysis in Winter 1906. There were a few other instances that I could talk about as well including the double convoy to England and ultimately settling on laddering up through England, using the modifier to get disbands to take out Italy (and planning for both TYS and LVN deletes), retaking Munich with Bal s Kiel-Berlin and Ruhr + Bur s Ber-Mun (this is a move that actually only lost to a world where LN went for Denmark and Flanders tapped Kiel. A world that almost happened, but nonetheless it was the safest move-set possible that covered the most worlds. There is simply too much analysis for me to compile it all into one post here, so I'll just focus on Winter 1906 where me and Hal planned for several board-states in advance of the next year to account for the possibility of blackout or diplo a trois rolling.
Winter 1906:
View attachment 1737753919660.webp
From the Winter 1906 board-state, the most pressing concern and the only concern that we planned for was what units Russia was going to delete. The reason why we planned ahead was to determine what to do if blackout/diplo a trois rolled. The ultimate challenge was that Russia has many possible moves here and it is difficult to cover all of them.
A world where F EAS is kept means that France could technically lose in the south. As shown below, the coalition had 4 fleets in the south which could break back through ION since F Mar was out of position. France was in a position here where they can lose a secure hold over Venice if the coalition takes ION and then secures either ADR or Apu so that Venice can be tapped. From this position, France can make no further gains in the south until global recession or nukes are rolled. This was my best shot at a solo win. If EAS is kept and Nukes/Global Recession do not roll until I am able to capitalize on Russia's weakness, I can become the dominant power in the alliance and swing a win. However, it wasn't clear to me how I won up north even with two deletes occurring. Because the main purpose of this analysis was to optimally punish Russia in the event they kept F EAS, only worlds with other deletes were considered.
First off, Prussia and Silesia were ruled out as possible deletes. Deleting either takes enough pressure off of Berlin to allow for Berlin to advance and Kiel to backfill, creating a 50/50 that Russia wouldn't want to deal with. If they lose the 50/50, I would be able to acquire more builds in Kiel which make these worlds simple enough to deal with. I'll describe a bit more in depth why these disbands are simply bad.
In a position where Silesia is deleted, the worst case scenario if I can play Munich s Berlin-Silesia and Munich s Vienna-Bohemia and have France play Tyrol s Vienna-Boh is EITHER:
Austria plays Galicia s Bohemia and Tri-Tyrol and I retain Vienna.
OR Austria makes literally any move combination and we trade Vienna for Bohemia and a forced Austrian disband.
If Prussia is deleted and Silesia is kept, the same sort of plan in Central Germany is viable, but Berlin still has to tap Silesia.
The worst case would be this where everything stays the same (including me holding Vienna -- something not guaranteed in other board-states):
The best case would look something like this:
It's worth noting in a Prussia or Silesia delete boardstate, LVN and Bot are tied down in the defense of Poland. This means that in most worlds Finland is defending against Sweden and Nwy. The annoying thing about this is twofold. One point is that this position can easily get me a a fleet in STP by Fall, but this is not what I want. My win condition for breaking Russia is to get an army in Stp by fall or to break into Poland. The army in Finland can easily block an army from entering Stp by holding in place. Counteracting this requires a simple maneuvre.
Notably, this moveset wins even if Russia uses BOT to try to support Finland in or vice versa. Sweden is free to tap Finland and BAL is free to tap BOT, so Stp always falls in Fall 1907 in this boardstate. This was really all I needed to show to truly point out that deleting Silesia and Prussia were unviable options. The only counterplay is for Russia to play Sweden-Norway in spring which was a potential move but not something we saw as particularly likely. The other options that Russia could play that fail to stop this moveset are Finland holding and Bot tapping BAL (B; obviously this moveset loses), BOT supporting Finland to Sweden (C; bounce or kinda messy -- BAL is tapping BOT in Spring 1907 and these maps are in error), Finland supporting Bot to Stp (D; BOT lands in STP, but gets overrun in Fall and Finland is stranded -- Moscow is taken in Spring 1908), or BOT supporting Finland to STP (E; 2nd best option, STP gets overrun in Fall 1907). It's worth noting that any world in which STP is taken leads to a full collapse of either the Northern Front or Southern front depending on Russia's deletes.
A: Best move for Russia. This move does legitimately stall us out by one season but Bar can support the convoy over. This does successfully deny me an army in Moscow in Fall 1907 though.
B: Clearly this moveset is a win. Forced disband Finland if it is kept, and then march into Moscow in Fall 1908.
C: Kinda messy if Finland supports BAL to Swe, fails otherwise. Still gives me clear access to Moscow in Spring 1908 in either case.
D: Easily the worst prospective map for Russia. Russia is forced to undergo a disband, and if it isn't Finland, that can be force disbanded in Spring.
E: No further analysis is needed to show that this is indefensible for Russia, especially after a delete.
There is also a world where NWG/BAR is kept instead of Finland. NWG/BAR isn't a good keep, especially if Finland isn't kept. NWG/Bar will get force disbanded or stranded when STP is taken and there is nothing Russia could do about that. I basically assumed that NWG/Bar would be disbanded because its already a dead unit. The counterplay is to walk Sweden into Finland and support NTH into NWG and then into Bar. At this point, NWG/Bar would be force disbanded because it cannot retreat to Lvn.
If NWG/BAR AND Finland are kept, that would mean Russia has to delete two of BOT/Prussia/Silesia, meaning the defense of Central Germany is impossible, and unless the third unit kept is BOT, Scandinavia is also indefensible.
Finland was ruled out as a possible delete because if Finland is deleted, Nwy -> Scandinavia & Sweden -> Finland guarantees that I take Stp in Fall 1906 with an army. Livonia is not a fun delete for Russia to make but it is essentially forced, after all the other analysis was done.
BOT was ruled out as a viable delete, which funny enough it actually was deleted here. The reason why a BOT delete is not viable is because BOT is needed to allow for what Hal and I call the "guided tour" route, an option where Russia can threaten Sweden with either Fin (probably optimal) or NWG (also possible). Deleting BOT also takes a huge amount of pressure off of Northern Germany and allows for moves such as Munich s Berlin-Silesia since BAL can safely backfill Berlin. This was only a 50/50 option in a world where BOT is deleted; however, it would be too risky to consider in Russia's position.
Hal and I practically assumed that the world we would be in would be BOT/Fin/Sil/Pru.
From this position there are four main Spring 1907 options to deal with:
Guided tour: Fin s BOT-Swe
Hold: Fin hold, Bot tap BAL
Norway attack: Fin to Norway, BOT hold / BOT Finland.
Stp defense: BOT s Fin to Stp.
I may make one more post in which I will cover these 4 options and maybe explore the FIN/LVN/Pru/Sil world which wasn't something me and Hal put much thought into because we deemed it unviable as a defensive option.
Winter 1906:
View attachment 1737753919660.webp
From the Winter 1906 board-state, the most pressing concern and the only concern that we planned for was what units Russia was going to delete. The reason why we planned ahead was to determine what to do if blackout/diplo a trois rolled. The ultimate challenge was that Russia has many possible moves here and it is difficult to cover all of them.
A world where F EAS is kept means that France could technically lose in the south. As shown below, the coalition had 4 fleets in the south which could break back through ION since F Mar was out of position. France was in a position here where they can lose a secure hold over Venice if the coalition takes ION and then secures either ADR or Apu so that Venice can be tapped. From this position, France can make no further gains in the south until global recession or nukes are rolled. This was my best shot at a solo win. If EAS is kept and Nukes/Global Recession do not roll until I am able to capitalize on Russia's weakness, I can become the dominant power in the alliance and swing a win. However, it wasn't clear to me how I won up north even with two deletes occurring. Because the main purpose of this analysis was to optimally punish Russia in the event they kept F EAS, only worlds with other deletes were considered.
First off, Prussia and Silesia were ruled out as possible deletes. Deleting either takes enough pressure off of Berlin to allow for Berlin to advance and Kiel to backfill, creating a 50/50 that Russia wouldn't want to deal with. If they lose the 50/50, I would be able to acquire more builds in Kiel which make these worlds simple enough to deal with. I'll describe a bit more in depth why these disbands are simply bad.
In a position where Silesia is deleted, the worst case scenario if I can play Munich s Berlin-Silesia and Munich s Vienna-Bohemia and have France play Tyrol s Vienna-Boh is EITHER:
Austria plays Galicia s Bohemia and Tri-Tyrol and I retain Vienna.
OR Austria makes literally any move combination and we trade Vienna for Bohemia and a forced Austrian disband.
If Prussia is deleted and Silesia is kept, the same sort of plan in Central Germany is viable, but Berlin still has to tap Silesia.
The worst case would be this where everything stays the same (including me holding Vienna -- something not guaranteed in other board-states):
The best case would look something like this:
It's worth noting in a Prussia or Silesia delete boardstate, LVN and Bot are tied down in the defense of Poland. This means that in most worlds Finland is defending against Sweden and Nwy. The annoying thing about this is twofold. One point is that this position can easily get me a a fleet in STP by Fall, but this is not what I want. My win condition for breaking Russia is to get an army in Stp by fall or to break into Poland. The army in Finland can easily block an army from entering Stp by holding in place. Counteracting this requires a simple maneuvre.
Notably, this moveset wins even if Russia uses BOT to try to support Finland in or vice versa. Sweden is free to tap Finland and BAL is free to tap BOT, so Stp always falls in Fall 1907 in this boardstate. This was really all I needed to show to truly point out that deleting Silesia and Prussia were unviable options. The only counterplay is for Russia to play Sweden-Norway in spring which was a potential move but not something we saw as particularly likely. The other options that Russia could play that fail to stop this moveset are Finland holding and Bot tapping BAL (B; obviously this moveset loses), BOT supporting Finland to Sweden (C; bounce or kinda messy -- BAL is tapping BOT in Spring 1907 and these maps are in error), Finland supporting Bot to Stp (D; BOT lands in STP, but gets overrun in Fall and Finland is stranded -- Moscow is taken in Spring 1908), or BOT supporting Finland to STP (E; 2nd best option, STP gets overrun in Fall 1907). It's worth noting that any world in which STP is taken leads to a full collapse of either the Northern Front or Southern front depending on Russia's deletes.
A: Best move for Russia. This move does legitimately stall us out by one season but Bar can support the convoy over. This does successfully deny me an army in Moscow in Fall 1907 though.
B: Clearly this moveset is a win. Forced disband Finland if it is kept, and then march into Moscow in Fall 1908.
C: Kinda messy if Finland supports BAL to Swe, fails otherwise. Still gives me clear access to Moscow in Spring 1908 in either case.
D: Easily the worst prospective map for Russia. Russia is forced to undergo a disband, and if it isn't Finland, that can be force disbanded in Spring.
E: No further analysis is needed to show that this is indefensible for Russia, especially after a delete.
There is also a world where NWG/BAR is kept instead of Finland. NWG/BAR isn't a good keep, especially if Finland isn't kept. NWG/Bar will get force disbanded or stranded when STP is taken and there is nothing Russia could do about that. I basically assumed that NWG/Bar would be disbanded because its already a dead unit. The counterplay is to walk Sweden into Finland and support NTH into NWG and then into Bar. At this point, NWG/Bar would be force disbanded because it cannot retreat to Lvn.
If NWG/BAR AND Finland are kept, that would mean Russia has to delete two of BOT/Prussia/Silesia, meaning the defense of Central Germany is impossible, and unless the third unit kept is BOT, Scandinavia is also indefensible.
Finland was ruled out as a possible delete because if Finland is deleted, Nwy -> Scandinavia & Sweden -> Finland guarantees that I take Stp in Fall 1906 with an army. Livonia is not a fun delete for Russia to make but it is essentially forced, after all the other analysis was done.
BOT was ruled out as a viable delete, which funny enough it actually was deleted here. The reason why a BOT delete is not viable is because BOT is needed to allow for what Hal and I call the "guided tour" route, an option where Russia can threaten Sweden with either Fin (probably optimal) or NWG (also possible). Deleting BOT also takes a huge amount of pressure off of Northern Germany and allows for moves such as Munich s Berlin-Silesia since BAL can safely backfill Berlin. This was only a 50/50 option in a world where BOT is deleted; however, it would be too risky to consider in Russia's position.
Hal and I practically assumed that the world we would be in would be BOT/Fin/Sil/Pru.
From this position there are four main Spring 1907 options to deal with:
Guided tour: Fin s BOT-Swe
Hold: Fin hold, Bot tap BAL
Norway attack: Fin to Norway, BOT hold / BOT Finland.
Stp defense: BOT s Fin to Stp.
I may make one more post in which I will cover these 4 options and maybe explore the FIN/LVN/Pru/Sil world which wasn't something me and Hal put much thought into because we deemed it unviable as a defensive option.
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I'd like to propose myself as a counter-argument.