DLC2 Crown Tundra Speculation Thread [SPOILERS]

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Unfinished is the word I would use regarding movepools. Maybe Regieleki would be too OP with additional moves but Regidraco could easily add Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, etc like most Dragons have and just be more viable in lower tiers. The birds too should’ve had a corresponding move from the Stab of their Kantonian counterparts at the very least, and Specterier should’ve been given one special move not ghost or dark at least (maybe Burning Jealousy).

I think most will be able to overcome this in whatever tier they end up in cause they ultimately still have legendary stats, but it doesn’t make sense in a game with essentially 200 TMs to have such sparse movepools.
 
Lmao this is the dumbest meta I've played in a while. Regileki + ring target on the ground types is free wins.

Ban all of:
  • Regielectric
  • Lando-i
  • Genesect
  • Blaziken
  • The poison/dragon ultra beast
  • Kyurem Black
  • Magearna
  • Cinderace
  • Zygarde
Impossible to say on anything else while these just run around 1-click sweeping
 
I think it goes without saying that Genesect needs to be banned ASAP. As much fun as it is, it is checked by pretty much only Heatran, which is susceptible enough to chip. Once Genesect goes, other busted shit like Naganadel and Blaziken are going to have to go as well, as CB ESpeed Genesect is one of the most reliable checks to those. Among these I think Zygarde should be banned as well, but that is not as much of a pressing issue.

As many have mentioned previously in this thread, it is kinda hard to get a solid grasp on the metagame with some of these mons running around.
 
Regieleki looks like a new Dracovish. With Tapu koko on a terrain team, it can run a rising voltage set that hits levels of power similar to scarf dracovish in the rain. With rising voltage in terrain, it gets 140BP move, A 1.5 times boost from its ability, a 1.3 times boost from terrain, and its can do this while running specs. That specs set is faster than scarf genesect even if Regielki runs modest. With a timid nature, regieleki outruns scarf mons up to 116 base speed. Wtf. Here's a calc where I changed Zerora's stats. The +1 is supposed to mimic Regieleki's ability.

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Zeraora Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 354-417 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you lose your ground immunities and priority, you outright lose the game. It's very much in line with Dracovish.

Regidraco also shouldn't be underestimated. Here's a calc where I replaced Drudigon's stats with regi-draco's, and I also made draco meteor 150 BP.

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Druddigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 352-415 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

Of course it isn't nearly as broken as Regieleki, but it's still hitting opponents with a 225 base power stab move. That's roughly equilivent to Dracovish levels of power, but the dragon guy is 5 points faster and bulkier to boot. His movepool, like Regieleki, is about as deep as a puddle, but the power is there. They both lack the means of breaking their absolute counters, being either fairy or ground types. Once those are out of the way, however, both of these pokemon absolutely slap. Regi-eleki is the far greater concern, however, given it's absurd speed.

Glasterier isn't as bad as people are claiming, imo. A set like this:

Glastrier @ Choice Band
Ability: Chilling Neigh
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Close Combat
- High Horsepower
- Double-Edge

This will do work. Pure ice typing is one of the worst typings, but Chilling neigh means that after KOing something, this mon will be hitting harder than a banded Galarian Darmanitan, and given it's ridiculous 100/130/110 bulk, nothing should KO from full outside of banded, stab moves that are super effective. Fighting types like Urshifu seem like they'll shut this guy down well, but a blaziken can't OHKO from full for example. We'll have to wait until some of the ridiculous offensive threats running around OU are banned before we can see if this has a niche.

Spectrier seems like it's a worse version of Blacephelon due to movepool issues. Here's a neat set that could work though:

Spectrier @ Choice Specs
Ability: Grim Neigh
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dark Pulse

It can specs hex like a dragapult, but it's much, much stronger. It's too strong to be walled by any dark type outside of mandibuzz, in fact. Here's a calc with a burned mandibuzz and a blacephelon with 145 SP.At. Any chip, and the mandibuzz dies.

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hex (130 BP) vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Mandibuzz: 171-202 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

The Galarian birds aren't viable in OU, outside of the new zapdos who is. This set seems pretty solid, and it counters defog very well if you're using hyper offense:

Zapdos-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunderous Kick/Close Combat
- Blaze Kick
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

It's quite scary if it gets a +2, and it's useful speed control in general. Very strong, will almost certainly be OU once a few bans are made.

Speaking of bans, quite a few mons seem broken right now. Naganadel and Genesect both need to be quickbanned honestly. They constrain teambuilding a bit too much, and they have a snowballing ability that just seems unfair. Sp.Def Heatran does well against both of them, so maybe Heatran can save the meta lol. Regardless, some other outliers are Kyruem Black, Landorous-I, Pheremosa, Regieleki, and Blaziken. All of those mons are warping the metagame around them, and defensive counterplay against any of those mons are limited.

In general, this metagame has some of the strongest priority of any metagame I've ever played. Also, the speed tiers are just wacky with Regieleki and all the speed boosting mons running rampant. I haven't even really seen much melmetal, Cinderace, or Magearna yet, though they will all likely remain OU after a few bans. Tapu-Fini also seems like a good physical check to a lot of mons in the metagame right now, like Blaziken. Either way, its fun seeing all this chaos, but I'm hoping the meta will stabilize some after a few bans.
 
Regidraco also shouldn't be underestimated. Here's a calc where I replaced Drudigon's stats with regi-draco's, and I also made draco meteor 150 BP.

+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Druddigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 352-415 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

Of course it isn't nearly as broken as Regieleki, but it's still hitting opponents with a 225 base power stab move. That's roughly equilivent to Dracovish levels of power, but the dragon guy is 5 points faster and bulkier to boot. His movepool, like Regieleki, is about as deep as a puddle, but the power is there.
Yeah, but with Regidraco there are more factors to take into account: Dragon Energy's power varies with HP, meaning that between hazards and chip damage, it can be handled. Also, that sheer power only comes if go fully special, which isn't optimal since the little coverage it has its physical and too weak to be used uninvested. So the best idea imo would either be a Dragon Dance set (that could also be ran with a bulkier spread taking advantage of its huge HP stats) of a mixed Choice Scarf set, using Dragon Energy to revenge kill specially frailer mons (I guess could use a Mixed Set too, but don't use life orb with DE). That's not to say Regidrago can't be overwhelming, but I think boosted Outrage is easir to handled than DE.
 
Lmao this is the dumbest meta I've played in a while. Regileki + ring target on the ground types is free wins.

Ban all of:
  • Regielectric
  • Lando-i
  • Genesect
  • Blaziken
  • The poison/dragon ultra beast
  • Kyurem Black
  • Magearna
  • Cinderace
  • Zygarde
Impossible to say on anything else while these just run around 1-click sweeping
Some of these I agree with, some I don't. Cinderace doesn't seem overpowered at all, same with Magearna and Zygarde. Naganadel, Regielectric, and Genesect all seem out of line after playing a few games though. If you lose your ground type and lose your priority, Regielectric 6-0's teams with ease. Naganadel quadra resists grassy glide, resists aqua jet, and mach punch. E-speed and sucker punch are the only relevant priority moves that can hit him, so countering naga once he gets rolling is very, very difficult. Genesect is just outright, too powerful for OU it seems. It's good on all fronts, but its banded set seems to be the most busted of the bunch.

Kyurem's not overpowered like these other monds with busted abilities and movepools. He's just a raw bunch of stats that are honestly too high for OU. He lives every hit, sets up with DD, and then can sweep whole teams. He's weak to a ton of common moves right now, however, and if we got rid of a few busted offensive mons, the meta might be able to handle him.

Magearna is the same as the last update, but now we have the likes of heatran to add to its counters list. Magearna doesn't seem crazy to me when compare to some of the other mons up here either. By comparison to the others here, Mag is just...forgettable offensively.

Blaziken isn't as good as I imagined it would be, but if you banned a few of these other mons, it would surely rise up to best mon in the meta status. Its SD set 6-0's balance. It's protect set 6-0's offense(Once Regieleki is banned, and Genesect. If that happens, of course.) Blaziken also resists grassy glide priority, but that doesn't matter as much as you'd think. If Blaziekn CC's with a life orb, Blaziken can be KOed already by rillaboom.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken in Grassy Terrain: 237-279 (78.7 - 92.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

It's just worth mentioning that Blaziken is also walled by a variety of defensive mons, though you need a specific counter to its specific set. Otherwise, you can just get 6-0ed after it sets up. It's definitely on the radar for being banned, but it's not as oppressive as Genesect or Naganadel.

Zygarde, I have barely seen it used. It doesn't seem bad, mind you, it's just Genesect and Pheremosa both OHKO with ice beam. Kyurem obviously eats it for breakfast, and it just doesn't seem that broken to me. Yet. Stuff will be banned, and we'll see how things paly out. It's there with Mag and Cinderace as secondary concerns.

Lando-I will probably become a bigger problem once the ridiculously fast and powerful offensive threats have been banned. As of now, it just doesn't seem fast enough to me, and Blissey does a great job of walling this thing. You need to run a calm nature, however, otherwise focus blast 2HKO's.
 
Honestly it's incredible how good the new Regi abilities are. 1.5x damage is absurd when they can hold an item to boost their strength even further. For as bad as Regidrago looks on paper it's basically a Dragalge on steroids with how powerful its Dragon attacks are and once the meta settles down I can see it having a small niche just for that reason.
 
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Yeah, but with Regidraco there are more factors to take into account: Dragon Energy's power varies with HP, meaning that between hazards and chip damage, it can be handled. Also, that sheer power only comes if go fully special, which isn't optimal since the little coverage it has its physical and too weak to be used uninvested. So the best idea imo would either be a Dragon Dance set (that could also be ran with a bulkier spread taking advantage of its huge HP stats) of a mixed Choice Scarf set, using Dragon Energy to revenge kill specially frailer mons (I guess could use a Mixed Set too, but don't use life orb with DE). That's not to say Regidrago can't be overwhelming, but I think boosted Outrage is easir to handled than DE.
It's just not notably strong or worth using with an offensive set. It gets stonewalled by fairies with its physical set no matter how many DD's it gets up since its coverage moves are crunch, Hammer arm, thunder fang, and fire fang. Those fang moves are 65 BP, and fairies resist its other, stronger coverage moves. Regidrago is also very weak without its ability boosting its stab moves, kind of like a dracovish. I'm thinking that just hitting hard as you can with its special set will be its only niche. That and a scarf set that has super powerful dragon spam capability. Everything else is just really, really bad.
 
It's just not notably strong or worth using with an offensive set. It gets stonewalled by fairies with its physical set no matter how many DD's it gets up since its coverage moves are crunch, Hammer arm, thunder fang, and fire fang. Those fang moves are 65 BP, and fairies resist its other, stronger coverage moves. Regidrago is also very weak without its ability boosting its stab moves, kind of like a dracovish. I'm thinking that just hitting hard as you can with its special set will be its only niche. That and a scarf set that has super powerful dragon spam capability. Everything else is just really, really bad.
It's more likely to drop to lower tiers like RU or NU, where the power level is alot lower. There it'll probably function as a ddance sweeper (fat fairies are very uncommon, good ones anyways) or a special breaker. Dragon Dance + Dclaw/Outrage + Fire Fang + Facade (or whatever coverage you want, stuff like Explosion, Body Slam, and Substitute also probably work) hits most of what it wants to down there. I don't see this thing being viable in OU at all, as disappointing as that is.
 
I think the only moms that should go are lando-I, Naganadel, genesect, and kyurem-black. All of them seem to be very powerful and together they can overwhelm everything.

I feel Regieleki needs a bit more time, it’s pretty overhyped and it can’t touch grounds, but it seems that it should be something that can be looked into with more time.

blaziken I feel is also better on paper than practice, it gets worn down too quickly and anything that can live a hit like hippo can deal with it, plus it dislikes rocky helmet users.

RIP TAPU LELE BEING BROKEN HAHA

torn-t needs more time, it’s not that bad with a lot of mons that can kill it and hurricane misses a lot more than you’d like it too. Could see it being a problem later but for now I’d like to keep it

no opinion on zygarde and Pheromosa, they were speculated to be broken but they haven’t been too bad. I will expect them to be a problem once the tier stabilized and gets cleared up.
 

spatulakun

I LOVE CHIPFLAVOUR
is a Tiering Contributor
what sets have yall been using on zygarde? I tried both band and dd and both seem good. I also got messed up by sub coil glare (flashbacks to sm).

I'm also loving heatran in this meta. Being able to deal with genesect/naga/gear in one slot is a godsend.
 
Why are people acting like regieleki is crazy lol, you know dracozolt exists, does more damage even with sand rush, and has actual coverage, right?
There's several reasons. The big one is speed. A +2 jolly dracozolt is still slower than regieleki(It's by 2 points, but still). Another reason is volt switch, which allows regieleki to maintain momentum. Boltbeak, as strong as it is, requires moving first while Regieleki is more reliably powerful. Regieleki also has the advantage of power once setup. If you compared a regieleki in electric terrain to a dracozolt in sand, A regieleki has rising voltage as a usable move. 140*1.5(ability)*1.3(Terrain) = 273 BP stab move. That's not including specs. Dracozolt has a 170 BP stab move. Even with hustle on dracozolt, Regieleki is stronger unless they're both in electric terrain.

So it's very similar to Dracozolt with Hustle, but Regieleki doesn't miss and is over twice as fast. So yeah, it's a lot better offensively.
 
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