DLC2 Crown Tundra Speculation Thread [SPOILERS]

[Monky25]

I'm back with DLC speculation, and I'm going to talk about unbans for uber pokemon as well as pokemon that were considered banworthy but might now be anymore. I'm talking about melmetal and cinderace, the only 2 uber pokemon that I consider can simply be unbanned (magearna would be a retest and i wouldn't even unban Gdarm or vish). Also, I believe that urshifu will not be banworthy from the dlc with new checks and counters it gets.

First, I'll start with urshifu, a mon that hasn't been banned yet from OU. In terms of checks, it had clefable, Gweezing, fat mons like hippo, tang, and pex as well as offensive mons like scarf togekiss, hawlucha, and specs pult. All of these could be checks or not depending on the set. The same applies to some of the mons here.
252 SpA Life Orb Naganadel Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu: 411-485 (120.5 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Naganadel can live a banded sucker punch and kill back with Draco, solid string check assuming Naganadel doesn't get banned.
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu: 832-983 (243.9 - 288.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also assuming Koko doesnt get banned (even if it should), koko can take its stabs due to hits fairy typing and threaten back with a 4X effective fairy move.
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu: 390-458 (114.3 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While banded shifu can threaten an OHKO to a 252HP/252 Spe torn-t, torn-t can threaten back with hurricane. Once again, torn t is banworthy so it might not stay in the tier, so one less urshifu check. Have no fear, there are many more mons that can deal with shifu and not get banned.

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu: 454-535 (133.1 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 376-444 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 348-422 (102 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Dragonite Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 268-324 (78.5 - 95%) -- approx. 2HKO (can kill afterward with Espeed)
Despite none of these being able to switch into wicked blow except dragonite, they all survive sucker expect blacephalon and can OHKO shifu back with their moves, being effective revenge killers.

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 16 Def Tapu Fini on a critical hit: 128-151 (37.3 - 44%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole on a critical hit: 90-106 (21.5 - 25.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lastly, these 2 mons can live any of urshifu's hits and kill back with SE attacks. Despite fini not having recovery, it has flip turn and can pivot out after killing shifu with moonblast, while buzzwole does not give a shit and will kill with CC. Overall, we get more revenge killers and urshifu counters with the new dlc, so I feel urshifu will not be broken as these checks and counters in addition to the ones we already have will make it manageable.

Next up, onto Melmetal. We already had solid checks in the form of pex, ferro, and heattom when melmetal was being retested. DlC 1 gave us stuff like volcarona and tangrowth, with other stuff like skarm having the ability to punish choice locked melmetal. DLC 2 gives us even more things to kill it now.

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 432-510 (91.5 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 854-1008 (180.9 - 213.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 540-636 (114.4 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 432-510 (91.5 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Moltres Fire Blast vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 498-588 (105.5 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
With a slight bit of chip on melmetal provided via something like spikes, all of these mons can OHKO melmetal. Also, we have new rocky helmet users that can punish melmetal clicking double iron bash, such as zapdos, tank chomp, lando-t, and physical walls like swampert who do not care about its attacks at all. Overall, melmetal was already a pokemon people were on the verge of unbanning pre-dlc, and 2 dlcs in has given players many, many options to abuse and defeat melmetal, making it worthy of a quick unban in my eyes.

Lastly, although we just gave it a retest, cinderace should also be quick unbanned at the start of the gen due to a gain of new checks and counters. Cinderace had shaky checks in mandibuzz, hippo, pex, gastrodon and rhyperior while being able to kill 2/3 pokemon that are faster than it with sucker. It also had limited revenge killers, the best one being crawdaunt but thats only if cinderace still had its fire typing at the time. Now, cinderace's attacks and speed are less impressive and its 4MSS is greatly amplified by incoming mons. Heatran forces it to run HJK to not be walled by it, while defensive lando t and chomp can either take its attacks or threaten with a scarf set. Multiscale dragonite, zapdos, and moltres also don't mind any of its attacks and bulky waters like suicune and swampert also deal with cinderace very well. Assuming zygarde doesnt get quick banned, (even though it should) it can deal with any cinderace set. Finally, we have revenge killers like speed boost blaziken and naganadel to beat it assuming they dont get banned as well. Overall, the bunny looks a lot more manageable with plenty new pokemon being able to deal with it and its attack stat looking much less impressive with the new drops.

In conclusion, urshifu doesnt look to be a problem anymore and I firmly believe that melmetal and cinderace are quick unban worthy and we should just unban them instead of wasting a time with a suspect test. DLC 2 is in 3 weeks and I cant wait. Also for the love of god OU council please quick ban zyagred and genesect we dont want to waste time suspecting these 2 broken mons.

 

[petergreek2002]

Part 2 of the analysis of all DLC2 'mons is here.

Landorus-T: The Clefable of Gen 7 returns to the dismay of the community, and is ready to return to the top. Still does what it does best, being a versatile glue mon. The loss of Hidden Power is a mixed bag, as while it no longer lives in fear of 4x attacks, it can't use it itself anymore to hit an opposing Landorus-T. Still expected to be in the top.

Genesect: With HDB being added, Genesect's already fantastic U-Turn antics are now even stronger than before. Sadly, this could mean yet another ban from OU but falling out of favour in Ubers, just like in ORAS and USUM. This loop seems that it will never end.

Tyrantrum: Way better than Aggron as a Head Smash user, but still leaves a lot to be desired in OU. Maybe the reduced dex gan give it a chance in UU.

Aurorus: HDB means it is more easy now to switch, but that defensive typing really hinders its offensive potential. Low tiers again for Aurorus.

Carbink: Way too passive to reach even the middle tiers.

Xerneas: Obviously Ubers, but with Primal Groudon gone, it means one check is gone. It will still be a huge threat in Ubers that will mandate Steel-types in every team.

Yveltal: Same with Xerneas, still one of the scariest threats in Ubers.

Zygarde-10%: If standard Zygarde gets banned, then Zydog has a serious chance of breaking into OU as a niche attacker. If not, then UU will most likely be its home for Gen 8.

Zygarde-50%: No Z-Moves mean standard Zygarde may have some trouble breaking certain threats like Tangrowth, but as we saw in USUM, its versatility, movepool and stat distribution mean that it could still be too much for OU to handle. Very likely to see a ban.

Zygarde-Complete: Why should that thing even be allowed in OU? It is obvious when you face this hard to break sweeper.

Diancie: Without its Mega, it feels too underwhelming for OU. It can settle in UU as a decent defensive threat however. Far bigger offeisnve presence than Carbink on the positive side.

Volcanion: I don't really know if Volcanion can return to OU, most likely going to settle again in UU while having a small nice in OU like USUM.

Tapu Koko: While there is the Terrain nerf, at the same time Tapu Koko receives an 140 BP STAB move and Close Combat, meaning its offensive presence has become even more threatening than before. It could even become borderline broken under the right circumstances, but I don't know if it has the potential to be banned.

Tapu Lele: OK, I don't really need to explain this one. It is what I describe as the special attacking equivalent of Dracovish, especially taking calculations in factor. This thing will pretty much mandate Dark-types on teams on the same way Dracovish mandated Water immunities, but the bad thing is that Dark-types are vulnerable to its secondary STAB. It must be banned immediately from OU as it is way too much.

Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu also got upgrades in its movepool, having finally a Fairy STAB and Fighting coverage, but most notably it received the dreaded Grassy Glide. It is expected to overthrow Rillabom as the best Grass-type of OU and the hype is understood.

Tapu Fini: Pretty much remaining the same as in USUM OU, a decent Defogger and stallbreaker. No recovery still hurts however.

Nihilego: It could be a decent suicide lead, but feels that it leaves something to be desired to become OU material. I expect this to thrive in UU, especially if Scizor does not drop in the future.

Buzzwole: Finally a real Urshifu-SS answer thanks to its typing, bulk and power, Buzzwole could finally break into OU, most possibly as a niche pick thanks to the aforementioned stuff it can do.

Pheromosa: In a similar way to Genesect, HDB make its life easier as a pivot, and it still remains the naturally fastest Pokemon of DLC2. While it somewhat misses Z-Moves, it still feels a bit broken and a ban is possible.

Xurkitree: Still a case of unfulfiled potential, as its power is phenomenal but its other stats hinder it seriously. Unlikely to break in OU, but the good thing is that it has coverage for Ground-types even without Hidden Power.

Celesteela: How the mighty have fallen so quickly, a Pokemon that was a pain in the neck to face in USUM OU now faces an imminent relegation to UU due to Corviknight's existence. Its rapid decline in National Dex also hints heavily at this. It could however become one of the best walls in what will be its new home, UU. A really sad case of how a former top tier titan has fallen out of favour.

Kartana: I don't know what was the idea of giving the hardest-hitting physical Grass-type the dreaded Grassy Glide. Now Kartana has really the potential of becoming one of the best, if not the best, physical sweeper of OU, especially when paired with Tapu Bulu. I expect this to become one of the most feared Pokemon of OU.

Guzzlord: Still too underwhelming for the high tiers, the low tiers will remain again its home.\

Naganadel: The removal of Z-Moves can make it harder to break Heatran, but still, its offensive potential is still scary and would possibly force Heatran on every team just to prevent a sweep from it. A ban is almost obvious in my opinion.

Stakataka: Also a bit hurt by the removal of Z-Moves, but it received Heat Crash and Body Press, great moves for a Pokemon with the required criteria for abusing those moves. Still not really OU material, but potentially a top tier UU threat.

Blacephalon: The last of the returning Pokemon also benefits greatly from HDB, and not only that, as it finally got a decent coverage move in Scorching Sands. Now, it can finally threaten Heatran and even Tyranitar and could finally fulfil its offensive potential and become one of the best Fire-types of OU.

And finally speculation about two newcomers.

Galarian Slowking: Assuming it keeps Regenerator, it has the potential of becoming a great answer to Stall teams due to Eerie Spell's unique side effect. I don't believe it can become a top tier OU pick due to the threat of offensivd teams overwhelming it, but it could become a decent Pokemon with a unique niche.

Calyrex: While we don't know much of it yet, especially its stats, it feels from the beginning that it will be a worse Celebi. The Psychic/Grass typing is flawed on both sides, it does not have a good ability unlike Celebi, and if the stats and the movepool are not good, then it is just way too unviable for OU.

About the Galarian Birds and the new Regis, not much is known yet either, so I will write for them again here when more data are released.

 

[The Dragon Master]

People are really overestimating the defog change. Yes it means that fini loses its status shield when it uses defog but that is in the users control. And either way, it's status shield was never it's most defining feature, and I don't think it needs that to beat the hazard setters and where it does need it, like against a pex, it can just choose to not defog and use nature's madness and taunt to beat that threat. Also it got flip turn meaning that it can maintain momentum, say as a heatran that didn't click stealth rocks switches into a rilaboom to beat fini. This does increase its 4MSS though, as it wants 6 moves.

 

[Revelation]

Tapu Fini gets Draining Kiss now for recovery on Calm Mind sets. Misty Terrain is beneficial in avoiding Toxic while setting up too.

 

[Perish Song]

Sup, its me again. This time I'll be talking about weather teams I've been toying around. (Here's my first post)

+

Rain's main core obviously stays the same, but it gains a lot of potential new additions to increase its variety.



Kyurem and Clefable are 2 Pokemon we've seen from Ox the Fox 's DLC1 Rain Team. The former is quite dangerous with Specs as it effectively nukes unprepared teams and Clefable is a handy Urshifu check while Wishpassing to its teammates to keep them healthy.



Tornadus Therian has been a crucial part of Rain teams since last generation. Its especially important this generation as we now have Grassy Glide spam which makes Grass resistance more crucial. Moreover, Hurricane under Rain forces those Pokemon out. Its an excellent fast pivot with reasonable bulk and Defog enhances Rain teams greatly.



I dont know if anyone will actually use this trio but the additions they get makes them look like they can pull their weight in rain teams with a niche. Salamence now gets Hurricane and has Hydro Pump, both are buffed under rain and comes with Intimidate so might offer some defensive utility. Zapdos also gets Hurricane along with Weather Ball, partially covering up the lack of Hidden Power Ice as it can hit to Ground-Types and Grass-Types. It also comes with powerful nuke in Thunder so it can be decent. One downside is it gets easily shutdown by any Pokemon that changes weather. Raikou is similar to Zapdos. It has both Scald and Weather Ball to hit Ground-types.



Nothing much to say here, its a physical Rain abuser with Swift Swim that lacks coverage against foes like Ferrothorn.


+



Blacephalon and Victini are two heavy hitters that can hit even harder under sun so its an absolute win. The two only increases the variety sun teams can run along with stuff like and so this is a great buff.



I only added this because of Weather Ball. Enables Raikou to hit Grass-types like Tapu Bulu, Rillaboom and Ferrothorn which would otherwise switch into Raikou freely.


( / ) & +



This thing now has Sand Rush, means more targets gets hit by boosted Bolt Beak while you dont have to worry about missing them.



Im not sure if this will be used, as Corviknight is already very common to find in sand cores. But Celesteela has its own merits as it can beat Clefable reliably 1 by 1 due to Heavy Slam's power, can Toxic opponents and can cause Healing for its teammates thanks to Leech Seed. It has a great bulk too so might be a decent alternative.



Tapu Fini offers a great amount of resistances to Sand teams. As the entire core is weak / neutral to Water and Fighting type attacks Fini does a good job to handle those. Idk how useful it will be as Defogger as it was already a weak defogger previous generation. But it received Draining Kiss this generation so it might act as an alternative balance breaker similar to Primarina.

 

[Lameflame]

Which Tapu do you think will be the best and worst?

Koko has the coverage options to beat most of its checks, but it can't beat them all in one cognizable set so it will be interesting to see how the meta develops around it. It will still struggle to deal with mons like Amoonguss, Gastrodon, Hippowdon and Tangrowth, but I imagine once you can tell whether it's physical or special, most teams will have at least 1-2 answers for it. It is definitely better than it was before though, no question about it.

Quickban worthy? No. Incredibly good, possibly suspect worthy? You bet. On one hand, Tapu Lele always had the ability back in SM OU to heavily pressure its checks with Specs Terrain boosted Psychic/Psyshock, and had the freedom to predict other checks like Scizor, Ferrothorn and Celesteela with other coverage moves. Bulky Steel resists were mandatory on teams anyway back in Gen 7 due to this pokemon, but now the combination of Expanding Force + Psyshock + Focus Blast will be menacing. I personally think it will ultimately remain OU if allowed to develop in the meta, but you will need fat steels and/or a lot of offensive pressure on your teams to keep it in check.

I like Bulu and have built around it a lot. I don't think Grassy Glide changes things for it a ton except for maybe on bulkier sets that can afford to invest less in speed and more in SpDef to act as a decent soft-check to threats like Lele, or some added bulk to take on Zygarde if that ends up being allowed. It's worth nothing that it gains Play Rough, so it can actually hurt Zygarde more than in the past where it got sub-coiled on.

Not much to say. It will have a solid niche in the metagame perhaps months after things settle down as a defogger with a few new toys, but I don't see it checking anything major to warrant serious early usage besides Heatran, which looks to be omnipresent for the foreseeable future.

Which long-time OU staple (Heatran, Garchomp, Landorus-Therian, Zapdos, Latios, Latias, etc.) are you most looking forward to returning and why?

Honestly, I see this pokemon terrorizing the tier for as long as it's allowed to remain under the radar. This is Not Your Father's Latios; I think Specs will ultimately be the most deadly set, but it can do a lot more than just wallbreak. Trick has no solid counterplay in this tier due to the lack of Mega stones and Z moves, and it has the coverage to chunk whatever would normally try to switch into something like specs Draco/Psyshock. The addition of Mystical Fire is particularly relevant, as now things like Jirachi and Celesteela are even shakier checks (spDef Jirachi has a 64% chance to be 2HKO'd on switch in to Mystical Fire, without factoring in hazards). I am very surprised it is not being discussed more, this is way better than I think people realize and I would put it as a top 1-3 mon in the tier when the DLC drops.

I play a lot of Nat Dex OU and at one point I called Heatran the best mon in that metagame. I don't know if it's the outright best mon that's coming, but take a look at what it checks (or hard counters) and what it can do for teams. This will be a metagame defining staple in my eyes, as it is able to now hard-counter potential returns like Genesect, Naganadel, Magearna and Nasty Plot Tornadus-T (lacking Focus Miss), as well as check dangerous threats like Lele, Blacephalon and Victini. Also a top 1-3 mon in the tier, and I think its surge in viability will have a huge impact on which offensive threats see more usage than others due to their ability, or inability, to break past this mon. Losing Z-moves does hurt a lot though, as now mons like Hydreigon, Latios and Tapu Fini don't fear Corkscrew Crash chunking it on switch-in, so its offensive sets will surely not be as potent.

Which new form or Pokemon are you most excited for and why?

Really just a hunch here as I don't have enough information about the new mons, but I think Galarian Moltres will end up being relevant in the tier past the new toy syndrome period. Love the design.

Which long-time Uber Pokemon do you think may be balanced in OU at some point this generation and why?

There is a lot to unpack here. The loss of Z-moves hurts it for sure, as now it is going to have more difficulty breaking through checks like PhysDef Tangrowth (it needs Toxic), Unaware Clefable (also needs Toxic, and this gets Softboiled now ), Tapu Fini and Tapu Bulu without Steelium Z, Buzzwole which will have renewed viability imo, and so on. It is still a menace behind screens, its Subs are difficult to break for fatter teams where it can set up very easily, and I don't think sets with Rest were fully explored before it got banned in the last generation, so I don't know if it will ultimately be considered healthy in the long term. However, I do think it provides some nice defensive utility for the metagame and will be a nice check to fire types like Heatran, Blaziken and Volcarona.

This was banned almost entirely on the basis of its Quiver Dance + Normalium Z set, which allowed it to break past Toxapex and sweep teams. That set no longer exists. It did gain a lot of new tricks in the way of Throat Chop (for Aegislash) and Drill Run (for Pex/Aegislash), but honestly I think this is worth at least a retest at some point. I just don't see it being able to set up and make progress as easily as it could before without Z moves, as it has next to zero bulk and can't afford to set up for more than a single turn at most.

Let's start with the bad news for Genesect. It lost HP Ground, so Heatran is now a full counter alongside Rotom-Heat to non-Douse Drive sets, which are revealed anyway at team preview. It is also threatened by a majority of offensive threats that are faster and can OHKO it or force it out, which are becoming very abundant (e.g. Latios Mystical Fire, Naganadel Flamethrower, Tornadus-T Heat Wave, Speed Boost Blaziken, Blacephalon, Victini, and potentially Cinderace). Fully physical sets are totally shut down by Toxapex and are checked by Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Garchomp, and Slowbro (since physical setup sets typically forego U-turn), and fully special sets are checked well by Blissey and Clefable that will likely be on a ton of teams regardless. It also can't really perform the role of Steel type-resist on teams, as its bulk is getting somewhat power creeped by things like Rising Voltage Koko (88-100%) and Expanding Force Lele (70-82). Genesect is very potent in metagames where it is naturally faster than most of its checks, where it can freely click its coverage moves, and then U-turn out on an opponent's counterplay, but let's see if it has that freedom in what looks to be a very offensive metagame.

I love this mon's design, it's incredibly fun to use, and I think it is still very likely to be broken. Losing Dragonium Z is a huge loss for sure, as now it can be outplayed a bit easier with the -2 Draco Meteor drops and having to rely on its bulk a bit longer to set up, but I just don't see that as being big enough drawbacks. Heatran, Tyranitar and Blissey are now full counters, yes, but I think the standard should be whether it's healthy in matchups where you lack any one of those mons. I'm not convinced it will be, but if it's allowed I'll happily use it until it isn't.

I think it will be just manageable enough to remain OU due to the fact that it genuinely needs more than 4 moves to truly beat its checks, but as the metagame becomes bulkier and its speed/reliance on protect becomes less of an issue, let's see how long it lasts. Toxapex, Landorus-T, Slowbro, Tapu Fini and Hippowdon are decent checks I guess.

What else are you excited about?

I haven't been this excited to play a metagame in years, if I'm being honest. There will definitely be some warranted bans in the early stages of the metagame but I'm hoping to play a tier with a little higher power level than what we have, with a little more offensive variety.

What are you worried about?

People who still refuse to wear a mask in public

And what other observations do you have?

Free Melmetal.

 

[DeltaInsurgent]

I personally think Latias could be a very solid offensive support Mon with a variety of utility available to it like Trick, Defog, Wish, and Healing Wish. I see some sort of Scarf set being the most prevalent with Psychic/shock/Draco/Last two being a tossup.

Also

Free Melmetal.

yes please

 

[taziathegreat]

Speaking about Melmetal it’s not a lot of talk about potentially retesting or releasing the others galar ubers in g-darm and dracovish.

Even with the new additions I’m just not quite sure either of them can be brought back down

 

[Finchinator]

galarian darmanitan spawned from satan's lair to terrorize competitive pokemon players and we should never allow it.

 

[Monky25]

Speaking about Melmetal it’s not a lot of talk about potentially retesting or releasing the others galar ubers in g-darm and dracovish.

Even with the new additions I’m just not quite sure either of them can be brought back down

Yeah most people are only really bringing up melmetal and cinderace because they have the best chance to be manageable with the dlc 2 drops. Darm-G would kill everything and force people to mandate a slot for pex on their teams(who still dies to eq) and dracovish utterly obliterates balance and other slow playstyles, effectively invalidating any teams who dont have a bulky grass or water which can be taken advantage of with vish's other teammates. Lastly, magearna is a weird case that may or may not contribute to more chaos already going to be caused by things like tapu lele, lando-I, pheromosa, genesect, and torn-t, so its better to individually retest it rather than straight up unban it.

 

[majority]

First time of a DLC2 Speculation, I will most talk about the Galar Birds, as well as the movesets they may have when they come out, if some of you guys dont know, Galarian-Moltres is a Dark-Flying type, while Zapdos a Fighting-Flying. Sorry to those who have thought Zapdos would be the first Ground-Fighting, it isn't true, it will be a Fighting-Flying. Galarian Articuno is a Ice-Psychic. These galarian birds, will have a signature move, Yes, you read right, a Signature Move. They are: Fiery Wrath (Galarian Moltres), Thunderous Kick (Galarian Zapdos), and Freezing Glare (Galarian Articuno). Now, for the movesets,


Galarian Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: ????
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderous Kick
- Brave Bird
- U-turn (Might have)
- Roost


Galarian Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: ????
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Freezing Glare
- Roost
- Defog
- Heal Bell (might have from last gen)

Galarian Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: ????
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fiery Wrath
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Taunt

Obviously, I think these mons will not go back to the tiers they were before last gen in their other forms, I think 2 of these galarian birds might be in UU/OU, and one lower, and that pokemon may be Galarian Articuno due to the fact that there are alot of checks to it in OU, like Urshifu, Sun Teams, Steel types, and so much more. Most likely in my opinion, coming back to OU, will be Galarian Zapdos, because of course, it is going to have the same typing of Hawlucha who is in OU and the first Flying-Fighting, but let's think back to SM and ORAS OU where it's Original form was OU because it was used more defensively and it was used on teams that needed it for it's supposed tasks which was to switch in on threats which were Scizor-Mega back then, and since it will still be a Flying-type, it will come back to switch in on Scizor once again, who may not have mega here, but Banded Scizor is still a thing and in my opinion, is a threat, not something to take so lightly, but not something to take too seriously. If Zapdos gets Pressure again, it might fit on archetypes like Semi-Stall and Bulky Offensive like it's original form because it might cover serious threats to those types of teams. Now speaking about Moltres, I happen to think it's new typing may allow it to have access to Taunt and Defog, so it it might also fit on Bulky Offensive teams, to take away hazards that would cripple them, and taunt those who are slower than it, if Moltres gets Pressure, then it would probably be used defensively to fully PP stall whenever the time is right, but it is important to know to be careful of any status aliments like Twave from Clefable, or toxic from Amoonguss, or Poison mons. I'll just conclude with Moltres would mostly fit on teams that are mostly stall pokemon, like Prankster ones and it might be usable in UU/OU like last gen with it's original form. Now onto Articuno, i think it won't be PU like it's original form like last gen due to it's new typing, a new move, and because it may have the same good SpD stat it always had back then. Then again, this new Articuno could change, and has a good chance of having it's SpA stat buffed because...why not? Look at most of the Psychic types, like Alakazam, Tapu Lele who will be coming back, Reuniclus, Espeon, Gardevoir, what is the big deal? They all have a good base SpA! So that's why I think it would be used Specially Defensive and could be Offensive if it happens to have it's SpA buffed. And to conclude, that is my speculation of all the Galarian Birds coming out soon in the Crown Tundra Expansion Pack. See you again in another Speculation!

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

First time of a DLC2 Speculation, I will most talk about the Galar Birds, as well as the movesets they may have when they come out, if some of you guys dont know, Galarian-Moltres is most likely going to be a Dark-Flying type, while Zapdos a Fighting-Flying. Sorry to those who have thought Zapdos would be the first Ground-Fighting, it isn't true, it will be a Fighting-Flying. Galarian Articuno is most likely to be a Ice-Psychic. These galarian birds, will have a signature move, Yes, you read right, a Signature Move. They are: Fiery Wrath (Galarian Moltres), Thunderous Kick (Galarian Zapdos), and Freezing Glare (Galarian Articuno). Now, for the movesets,


Galarian Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: ????
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderous Kick
- Brave Bird
- U-turn (Might have)
- Roost


Galarian Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: ????
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Freezing Glare
- Roost
- Defog
- Heal Bell (might have from last gen)

Galarian Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: ????
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fiery Wrath
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Taunt

Obviously, I think these mons will not go back to the tiers they were before last gen in their other forms, I think 2 of these galarian birds might be in UU/OU, and one lower, and that pokemon may be Galarian Articuno due to the fact that there are alot of checks to it in OU, like Urshifu, Sun Teams, Steel types, and so much more. Most likely in my opinion, coming back to OU, will be Galarian Zapdos, because of course, it is going to have the same typing of Hawlucha who is in OU and the first Flying-Fighting, but let's think back to SM and ORAS OU where it's Original form was OU because it was used more defensively and it was used on teams that needed it for it's supposed tasks which was to switch in on threats which were Scizor-Mega back then, and since it will still be a Flying-type, it will come back to switch in on Scizor once again, who may not have mega here, but Banded Scizor is still a thing and in my opinion, is a threat, not something to take so lightly, but not something to take too seriously. If Zapdos gets Pressure again, it might fit on archetypes like Semi-Stall and Bulky Offensive like it's original form because it might cover serious threats to those types of teams. Now speaking about Moltres, I happen to think it's new typing may allow it to have access to Taunt and Defog, so it it might also fit on Bulky Offensive teams, to take away hazards that would cripple them, and taunt those who are slower than it, if Moltres gets Pressure, then it would probably be used defensively to fully PP stall whenever the time is right, but it is important to know to be careful of any status aliments like Twave from Clefable, or toxic from Amoonguss, or Poison mons. I'll just conclude with Moltres would mostly fit on teams that are mostly stall pokemon, like Prankster ones and it might be usable in UU/OU like last gen with it's original form. Now onto Articuno, i think it won't be PU like it's original form like last gen due to it's new typing, a new move, and because it may have the same good SpD stat it always had back then. Then again, this new Articuno could change, and has a good chance of having it's SpA stat buffed because...why not? Look at most of the Psychic types, like Alakazam, Tapu Lele who will be coming back, Reuniclus, Espeon, Gardevoir, what is the big deal? They all have a good base SpA! So that's why I think it would be used Specially Defensive and could be Offensive if it happens to have it's SpA buffed. And to conclude, that is my speculation of all the Galarian Birds coming out soon in the Crown Tundra Expansion Pack. See you again in another Speculation!

Their typings have already been confirmed man. Articuno is Psychic/Flying, Zapdos is Fighting/Flying and Moltres is Dark/Flying

 

[JTD783]

Another potential use for Tapu Fini:


Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 12 SpA / 56 SpD / 192 Spe
Calm Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Fini interests me because it seems to be a better version of SubCM Primarina, which is already solid. At the cost of initial power (Primarina has like 30 higher special attack), Fini has better physical and special bulk, much more speed (85 vs 60), and a more useful ability in Misty Surge. EVs are from the National dex defog set. The speed seems optimized already, outspeeding modest heatran, but the special attack and special defense could probably be tweaked.

I guess Fini could use Taunt in place of Substitute too, just to deal with Pex and other lards more easily. However, preventing scald burns and lefties from being knocked off, plus not auto-losing when Rillaboom comes in, leads me to prefer Sub.

Does anyone else have ideas for making Fini useful? Maybe Taunt + Whirlpool could come back idk.

 

[majority]

Another potential use for Tapu Fini:


Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 12 SpA / 56 SpD / 192 Spe
Calm Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Fini interests me because it seems to be a better version of SubCM Primarina, which is already solid. At the cost of initial power (Primarina has like 30 higher special attack), Fini has better physical and special bulk, much more speed (85 vs 60), and a more useful ability in Misty Surge. EVs are from the National dex defog set. The speed seems optimized already, outspeeding modest heatran, but the special attack and special defense could probably be tweaked.

I guess Fini could use Taunt in place of Substitute too, just to deal with Pex and other lards more easily. However, preventing scald burns and lefties from being knocked off, plus not auto-losing when Rillaboom comes in, leads me to prefer Sub.

Does anyone else have ideas for making Fini useful? Maybe Taunt + Whirlpool could come back idk.

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Scald
- Defog
- Taunt

I think i like this

 

[IH8Chansey69 | Ranser]

I'll give my quick 2 cents on certain mons:

Tyrantrum: This is my favorite pokemon and I'm happy it's back, but I'm kind of disappointed in the new moves it learns. The only relevant ones is close combat and scale shot. CC is great since it not only hits the Steel and Rock types, it also hits Dark types for super effective damage, but it does lose to Ghost and poison types can resist it, though Head smash does do well against them though. Scale shot is a great fit for the life orb/choice banded set since you get a speed boost while attacking at the same time. Yeah, it's typing might not be the best defensive typing, but it's already has a good physical defense stat of 119, which makes the defense drop not as bad, so it can still take a hit decently well. However, these would be much better if Tyrantrum learned Accel Rock, which I think would be a amazing buff for Tyrantrum, but he didn't get it, so wishful thinking I guess. Just imagine how insane Life Orb Tyrantrum would be. His moveset would consist of Head Smash, CC/EarthQuake, Accel Rock, and Scale Shot. He can be a powerful wall breaker AND revenge killer in one moveset. Probably will never happen though, but all well. He won't do anything in OU, but he will be a solid threat in RU, maybe might get banned in RU or go to UU. Who knows.

Aerodactyl: Most likely will be used as a suicide lead, but I think the fact it can learn dragon dance is a big deal since Aerodactyls main problem before was that it had no physical attack stat boosting move pre-gen 8 besides rock polish/agility, which it really doesn't need since his speed is already really good. Yeah, it doesn't have the best defensives in the world since it's really frail, so it can't switch in safely, but you can play focus sash or heavy duty boots to help it stay healthy or get off a successful dragon dance. Plus, Aerodactyl does learn decent coverage moves, so it can run a focus sash/heavy duty boots set with stone edge, earthquake, DD, and Aqua Tail (If it still learns it in Gen 8 for egg moves) as its moveset if you're using a DD set. One DD would mean Aerodactyl would outspeed everything in the game and get a good attack buff, allowing it to hit really hard and potentially clean-up a weakened team. This would actually add a mind game where people need to figure out if it's a suicide support lead, or a DD offensive set. Again, I think suicide lead would be the most preferred choice, but DD Aerodactyl sounds really good for RU or UU. Not OU viable since he's heavily outclassed.

Tapa Bulu: I hadn't played in like a month, but I'm excited and terrified at the potential of Grass spam with double grassy surge and 2 grassy surge abusers in Kartana and Hawlucha. Rillaboom being a great support mon with Grassy Surge, Bulu being a powerful wall breaker, and Kartana and hawlucha being powerful sweepers. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up one of the best team comps in OU, just due to how much synergy, priority, and spam these 4 have. If I had to pick a defensive core that would fit perfectly with this team, it would have to be OG Zapdos and Toxepex, since they cover each others weaknesses very well, can take flying, bug, and fire type moves incredibly well while handling them at the same time, and can handle certain mons that resist grass. There might be other good defensive cores to go with grass spam core though, but Zapdos and Toxepex sound like a really good combo.

I don't have much to say about the others since I don't play them, but I did had some things to say about these particular pokemon.

 

[Deleted User 465389]

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Scald
- Defog
- Taunt

I think i like this

from bulbapedia:
“Generation VIII
Defog now also clears terrains”
Tapu fini doesn’t like defog as much now, as it gets rid of its misty terrain shield.

 

[Just_Aaron]

from bulbapedia:
“Generation VIII
Defog now also clears terrains”
Tapu fini doesn’t like defog as much now, as it gets rid of its misty terrain shield.

I don't think that the Defog buff is that bad for Fini. Losing Misty Terrain isn't the end of the world, and Fini getting statused would only occur if it stays after defogging or if the opponent uses status on the same turn. Also Fini can lose its terrain to other tapus, and the Defog buff can actually help it remove terrain from other Tapu that switches in (For example, Bulu). Also removing MT means that Fini can use status move ifself (or abuse Scald burns)

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Gen 7: "Tapu Fini isn't that good, since its Misty Terrain doesn't really much, and prevents it from burning stuff with Scald"

Gen 8: "Tapu Fini isn't that good, since it can't Defog without removing Misty Terrain"

 

[Revelation]

First time of a DLC2 Speculation, I will most talk about the Galar Birds, as well as the movesets they may have when they come out, if some of you guys dont know, Galarian-Moltres is a Dark-Flying type, while Zapdos a Fighting-Flying. Sorry to those who have thought Zapdos would be the first Ground-Fighting, it isn't true, it will be a Fighting-Flying. Galarian Articuno is a Ice-Psychic. These galarian birds, will have a signature move, Yes, you read right, a Signature Move. They are: Fiery Wrath (Galarian Moltres), Thunderous Kick (Galarian Zapdos), and Freezing Glare (Galarian Articuno). Now, for the movesets,


Galarian Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: ????
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderous Kick
- Brave Bird
- U-turn (Might have)
- Roost


Galarian Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: ????
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Freezing Glare
- Roost
- Defog
- Heal Bell (might have from last gen)

Galarian Moltres @ Life Orb
Ability: ????
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fiery Wrath
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Taunt

Obviously, I think these mons will not go back to the tiers they were before last gen in their other forms, I think 2 of these galarian birds might be in UU/OU, and one lower, and that pokemon may be Galarian Articuno due to the fact that there are alot of checks to it in OU, like Urshifu, Sun Teams, Steel types, and so much more. Most likely in my opinion, coming back to OU, will be Galarian Zapdos, because of course, it is going to have the same typing of Hawlucha who is in OU and the first Flying-Fighting, but let's think back to SM and ORAS OU where it's Original form was OU because it was used more defensively and it was used on teams that needed it for it's supposed tasks which was to switch in on threats which were Scizor-Mega back then, and since it will still be a Flying-type, it will come back to switch in on Scizor once again, who may not have mega here, but Banded Scizor is still a thing and in my opinion, is a threat, not something to take so lightly, but not something to take too seriously. If Zapdos gets Pressure again, it might fit on archetypes like Semi-Stall and Bulky Offensive like it's original form because it might cover serious threats to those types of teams. Now speaking about Moltres, I happen to think it's new typing may allow it to have access to Taunt and Defog, so it it might also fit on Bulky Offensive teams, to take away hazards that would cripple them, and taunt those who are slower than it, if Moltres gets Pressure, then it would probably be used defensively to fully PP stall whenever the time is right, but it is important to know to be careful of any status aliments like Twave from Clefable, or toxic from Amoonguss, or Poison mons. I'll just conclude with Moltres would mostly fit on teams that are mostly stall pokemon, like Prankster ones and it might be usable in UU/OU like last gen with it's original form. Now onto Articuno, i think it won't be PU like it's original form like last gen due to it's new typing, a new move, and because it may have the same good SpD stat it always had back then. Then again, this new Articuno could change, and has a good chance of having it's SpA stat buffed because...why not? Look at most of the Psychic types, like Alakazam, Tapu Lele who will be coming back, Reuniclus, Espeon, Gardevoir, what is the big deal? They all have a good base SpA! So that's why I think it would be used Specially Defensive and could be Offensive if it happens to have it's SpA buffed. And to conclude, that is my speculation of all the Galarian Birds coming out soon in the Crown Tundra Expansion Pack. See you again in another Speculation!

Articuno-G is Psychic/Flying and gets Competitive, Zapdos-G is Fighting/Flying and gets Defiant and Moltres-G is Dark/Flying and gets Berserk

 

[MrHands]

G-Zapdos might be pretty neat. Flying / Fighting has excellent offensive coverage and even is decent defensively (fucks up Urshifu lol). It's not hard to imagine that this might get some Tbolt coverage to smash through checks like Skarm or Roost to last all game. Defiant is great to shit up Landorus-T. Thunderous Kick guarantees a lowered defense stat upon contact so tanks like Hippowdon might have issues. Assuming Thunderous Kick has a modest 80 base power and G-Zapdos 125 base attack...

252+ Atk Zapdos Thunderous Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 90-106 (21.4 - 25.2%)

252+ Atk Zapdos Thunderous Kick vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 135-159 (32.1 - 37.8%)

252+ Atk Zapdos Brave Bird vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 202-238 (48 - 56.6%)

This is with no item (boots). Life Orb or Band might be viable as well. Also worth mentioning is that Hippowdon is the bulkiest thing in OU. If Fighting + Flying hit you neutrally you can not switch in on this safely, period.

+1 252+ Atk Zapdos Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 68 Def Landorus-Therian: 316-373 (99 - 116.9%)

Oops, you activated my Defiant trap card. Also assuming Zapdos flips special attack and attack it would still have a reasonable 90 base stat to drop Tbolts.

0 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 158-188 (47.3 - 56.2%)

Idk, seems like a real pain in the ass to deal with. Zapdos has great defensive stats as well so a slower tankier set could just run through balance teams.

 

[majority]

Articuno-G is Psychic/Flying and gets Competitive, Zapdos-G is Fighting/Flying and gets Defiant and Moltres-G is Dark/Flying and gets Berserk

Wait what? I wasnt sure of that, i couldnt find the abilities, sorry

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Wait what? I wasnt sure of that, i couldnt find the abilities, sorry

on the
official
website

 

[TravisB]

Could Mamoswine make a bit of a resurgence after DLC? I'm seeing a lot of new mons that should be major players in the meta that he matches up well against.

With Jolly nature and life ord, Heatran and Metagross get outsped and obliterated by EQ/HH. Landorus, Zygarde, Garchomp, and Salamence, all get obliterated by Ice Shard. Tapu Bulu gets outsped and 1hko'ed by Icicle Crash. It can speed tie or survive most moves from Dragonite and 1hko with Icicle Crash, or with Ice Shard if multiscale isn't in tact.

He also threatens Zapdos, Tornadus-T, Thundurus, Latios/as, and potentially the Galarian Birds.

In the post DLC2 meta will we see more of the offensive threats using +speed natures instead of +atk/spatk?

 

[MrHands]

Could Mamoswine make a bit of a resurgence after DLC? I'm seeing a lot of new mons that should be major players in the meta that he matches up well against.

Heatran and Metagross get outsped and obliterated by EQ/HH. Landorus, Zygarde, Garchomp, Salamence, and Dragonite (multiscale pending), all get obliterated by Ice Shard. Tapu Bulu gets outsped and KO'ed by Icicle Crash.

He also threatens Zapdos, Tornadus-T, Thundurus, Latios/as, and potentially the Galarian Birds. Some of these that don't get 1hko'ed from full HP by Ice Shard and are faster can deal a lot of damage back, so they can potentially stay in and KO him back, but even then they are risking losing most of their HP to Ice Shard, or potentially KO'ed if they've been chipped down some.

Mamoswine offensively is excellent, and defensively terrible. You can run damage calcs all day about how it 1-2HKOs literally everything but in practice it can be hard to switch in and sometimes you just click the wrong move and get forced out or simply get matched against something 1v1 that can eat an ice shard and KO back. It's still a great Pokemon but it won't be a meta defining staple or anything.

 

[TravisB]

Mamoswine offensively is excellent, and defensively terrible. You can run damage calcs all day about how it 1-2HKOs literally everything but in practice it can be hard to switch in and sometimes you just click the wrong move and get forced out or simply get matched against something 1v1 that can eat an ice shard and KO back. It's still a great Pokemon but it won't be a meta defining staple or anything.

I don't think it will be a meta defining threat, but in the current meta its basically non-existent. The question is whether or not it can at least have a niche role in the new meta.

It can 2hko a lot of things in the current meta, but there aren't that many key mons that it can outspeed/priority and 1hko and it usually has to use choice band and Adamant nature to be threatening. There are a bunch of key mons in the new DLC that its can oustpeed and 1hko with EQ/HH/Icicle Crash, or 1hko with Ice Shard, even with life orb instead of Band and jolly nature.

Of the other new mons that I mentioned in my previous post, its mostly just Latios and Thundurus (if it has focus blast) that can outspeed, survive ice shard, and 1hko it back, and they need to be at a pretty high HP total for that to work.

Hes one of my all-time favs, but I haven't really used him at all in this gen cuz hes sucked in basically every meta we've had so far. I'm hoping he gets enough favorable matchups from the new DLC that he can at least have a minor role moving forward.