[DONE] JOHTO CLASSIC - Post your results!

cant say

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Yes, i've been using dragonite with lum berry to counter smeargle. I also liked the heracross idea said by cant say, but I might not use the scarf set. I'm wondering, which is better: a moxie or a guts heracross. Guts could work as a status absorber which my team fails at.
You need Scarf to outsped Espeon, otherwise it just kills you with Psychic and you can't beat the Smeargle core anymore... Guts' utility in absorbing status like burn is way more valuable than Moxie boosts. Often you'll find yourself locked into an unfavourable move and need to switch out anyway...
 
For the Johto Classic Role Compendium, I cleaned it a bit, removing some irrelevant mons. I also added two new sections: Azumarill checks and Dragonite checks, both offensive and defensive. Note that for Azumarill, some of the offensive checks will die to either Banded or +6 Aqua Jet, so be weary of using something like Nidoking, Crobat and/or non-Sash Gengar as your offensive Azu check.

The compendium can be seen here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/online-competition-johto-classic.3571393/page-4#post-6793045
 
What's your spread, if you don't mind my asking?
Umbreon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect

I'm trying to make a team of my favorites from johto, not so much the best in the competition.
 

zapzap29

The obssessive man of passion
Does anyone have some advice for beating Sub-Seed Venusaur? That don't involve running a Venusaur of my own. This thing is surprisingly annoying. It just puts things to sleep and straight up refuses to die.
 
Does anyone haYou wouldn't happen to be him, would you? :pve some advice for beating Sub-Seed Venusaur? That don't involve running a Venusaur of my own. This thing is surprisingly annoying. It just puts things to sleep and straight up refuses to die.
You wouldn't happen to be this guy, would you? :p

As for solutions to Sub Seed Venu, Espeon isn't too fond of switching into sludge bomb but can freely switch in to any of Venu's status moves and start Calm Minding or just Psychic. Offensive Venusaurs can break through sub seed so long as they have sludge bomb. Obviously you can't switch in with these, but a faster Poison resistant mon with Taunt shuts it down. Sub users also do this but they also need the capacity to damage venu enough to pressure it. Skarmory doesn't care about it at all except for getting put to sleep. If it goes Giga Drain + Sleep Powder, any grass type hard walls it. I think nelson was running some weird anti shenanigans crobat with Roost, Taunt, and Safety Goggles so that'd conquer it if that sounds like it fit on your team Not letting it set up a sub in the first place is also nice so keep your speed high on the mons that beat it I guess!
 

zapzap29

The obssessive man of passion
You wouldn't happen to be this guy, would you? :p

As for solutions to Sub Seed Venu, Espeon isn't too fond of switching into sludge bomb but can freely switch in to any of Venu's status moves and start Calm Minding or just Psychic. Offensive Venusaurs can break through sub seed so long as they have sludge bomb. Obviously you can't switch in with these, but a faster Poison resistant mon with Taunt shuts it down. Sub users also do this but they also need the capacity to damage venu enough to pressure it. Skarmory doesn't care about it at all except for getting put to sleep. If it goes Giga Drain + Sleep Powder, any grass type hard walls it. I think nelson was running some weird anti shenanigans crobat with Roost, Taunt, and Safety Goggles so that'd conquer it if that sounds like it fit on your team Not letting it set up a sub in the first place is also nice so keep your speed high on the mons that beat it I guess!
Haha no, that's not me. That replay was painful to watch though. Thanks for the tips I'll have to try them out
 
252+ Atk Eviolite Piloswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 146-174 (83.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That. Was. Close! Anyway, Scarf set wouldn't beat this thing at full HP. Only with an Adamant nature and at least a Life Orb, things would be different tho, and you wouldn't recquire Superpower either. Iron Head would 2HKO it with no problem. Still, things like Machamp and Scizor have even more less trouble, and Scarf TTar is fast enough to outspeed Gengar.

Yet I had to check some things in order to counter sleep moves. I really can't stand Smeargle specially. I was thinking in adding Lum Berry Dragonite, but I find even more counters than before in the Kanto Classic. Some of them will be even stronger now. If I change Alakazam for Espeon, the Sash would go to Gengar, then the Life Orb could go to either Espeon or Scizor. I only gave the Sash to Alakazam because it's more fragile and could be OHKO'd by a single priority attack. As for Gengar Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak don't seem to be common here, and CB Azumarill's Aqua Jet would be very situational.

I'd include Defensive Zapdos as a check to Dragonite as well, as long as it has Hidden Power Ice. I was in a match between them in Kanto Classic and Zapdos managed to 2HKO it, even after a DD Outrage if I remember well.
 
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So, If you had to use Venusaur, how you you guys use it? I've read about a Subseed Venusaur, but is it viable on a 3 vs. 3? I loved using my Sub seed Whimsicott in Flash Clash, But I don't know if it's appropriate for this specific competition... And what other options would you have with Venusaur?

Sorry for all the questions... But I'm new at this and this forum and you all that participate in threads like this one are literaly my Pokemon teachers! I've learned soooo much with all the posts! Thank you to everyone! :)
 
Is that even with the such low Accuracy of Sheer Cold. I could imagine it being good if Suicune knew any lock-on moves. But to my knowledge, Suicune doesn't learn any which means Sheer Cold feels like its going to be a lucky-if-I-hit kind of move. I might not know everything about as I'm still getting into the competitive scene slowly.
I agree. A lot of people saw a spike in ColdCune usage during that BSS season where non pentagons were allowed. Which is why people are scared. An increase in usage in this specific format is not a valid reason to be concerned imo, as that was a doubles format (I think) and teams were not locked, like they will be for Johto Classic. The fluid nature of BSS allowed a lot of people to test the waters and try new/weird things like ColdCune, which people will be less likely to do in a tourney with locked battle boxes. Then, consider the very nature of using Sheer Cold: its unreliable and only has a 20-30% change to hit (AC differs based on source, IDK which is accurate for 6th Gen). Next, consider that this is only 3v3, which makes this a more hyper offensive metagame, where ColdCune may not get a change to make contact with Sheer Cold due to being outpaced and low AC. Then consider pokes with Sturdy/Endeavor + Priority users, like Donphan, which can take out ColdCune with ease if setup right. And last, is its limited distribution. I've already been told that just because it was a limited distribution doesn't mean that we wont see it, as cloning is very real. However, it's still a valid point because it still limits the distribution to those who have access to such clones and those who have the balls to use such clones in an official competition. Personally, i don't understand why The Pokemon Company isn't scanning the pokemon entered into their competitions and cross referencing them, and then banning those players who are using pokemon with identical ID numbers. Seems simple enough, but then again, I'm not a programmer. Either way, the threat that they will one day do this is enough to prevent me and probably a lot of others from using cloned and hacked mons, which is what ColdCune will be if you ever see one in this competition.
 
I agree. A lot of people saw a spike in ColdCune usage during that BSS season where non pentagons were allowed. Which is why people are scared. An increase in usage in this specific format is not a valid reason to be concerned imo, as that was a doubles format (I think) and teams were not locked, like they will be for Johto Classic. The fluid nature of BSS allowed a lot of people to test the waters and try new/weird things like ColdCune, which people will be less likely to do in a tourney with locked battle boxes. Then, consider the very nature of using Sheer Cold: its unreliable and only has a 20-30% change to hit (AC differs based on source, IDK which is accurate for 6th Gen). Next, consider that this is only 3v3, which makes this a more hyper offensive metagame, where ColdCune may not get a change to make contact with Sheer Cold due to being outpaced and low AC. Then consider pokes with Sturdy/Endeavor + Priority users, like Donphan, which can take out ColdCune with ease if setup right. And last, is its limited distribution. I've already been told that just because it was a limited distribution doesn't mean that we wont see it, as cloning is very real. However, it's still a valid point because it still limits the distribution to those who have access to such clones and those who have the balls to use such clones in an official competition. Personally, i don't understand why The Pokemon Company isn't scanning the pokemon entered into their competitions and cross referencing them, and then banning those players who are using pokemon with identical ID numbers. Seems simple enough, but then again, I'm not a programmer. Either way, the threat that they will one day do this is enough to prevent me and probably a lot of others from using cloned and hacked mons, which is what ColdCune will be if you ever see one in this competition.
What's wrong with cloned Pokemon? And by hacked I assume you mean RNG. All completely legal. Most of what you've said seems antiquated at best, outdated at least and kind of incorrect.
 
Did anyone ever share with you what EV spread they were using? I'm very interested to see. What are your thoughts? I was thinking 252 Atk, and probably 252 Spe to potentially outspeed other base 50's. Investing in defenses seems obvious on most other sets, but since this one relies on endeavor, i'm not sure.
I'd say that you wouldn't even need it to have 31 IVs in HP, Defense and Special Defense. I used my untouched Impish 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk on Flash Clash and its bulk made it difficult to be almost knocked out by physical attackers, which made me lose some matches. An Adamant/Jolly nature may be the best bet in case you use the Endeavor + Ice Shard set. It would be ideal if you could use two Endeavors, yet its still low Speed makes it difficult. Plus, it won't work against Gengar and Misdreavus, who can also Levitate. That's why I taught Knock Off to mine, and Protect to prevent Fake Outs in case it could not resist the second attack.
 
-runs off to get a head start on Hoenn Classic-

Seriously, though, I've been torn over Sturdy or Magnet Pull Magneton. Sturdy takes care of ColdCune, but Magnet Pull kills Skarmory... And the Evolute set looks more appealing to me... still, it would suck to get demolished by Suicune just because I don't have a Sturdy Pokemon.
 
-runs off to get a head start on Hoenn Classic-

Seriously, though, I've been torn over Sturdy or Magnet Pull Magneton. Sturdy takes care of ColdCune, but Magnet Pull kills Skarmory... And the Evolute set looks more appealing to me... still, it would suck to get demolished by Suicune just because I don't have a Sturdy Pokemon.
Actually, 2015's Battle of Hoenn had similar rules that fit ORAS story and Hoenn Pokédex, just as Kanto Classic did to represent RGBY, as well as Johto Classic will do with GSC (if it was more like HGSS, things like Yanmega would be permitted).
 

Psynergy

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Regarding Suicune, Sheer Cold Suicune doesn't care too much about the fact that this is a 3v3 metagame or that it's only 30% accuracy, that's actually part of what made it so good in BSS. You don't use Sheer Cold Suicune with the intent of spamming Sheer Cold, but rather use Sheer Cold against bulky Pokemon that Suicune might not be able to break through fast enough otherwise, against otherwise safe switch-ins, or as a last-ditch effort if you're about to go down but can get one more attack in. Suicune is naturally bulky enough to usually get multiple chances at this as well, so one miss isn't as detrimental as it might seem. It's one of those things you have to respect when you see a shiny Suicune (though watch out for sneaky non-Cherish Ball shiny ones on cart). The pressure that Sheer Cold puts on the opponent shouldn't be ignored when Suicune beats nearly every Sturdy user bar Magneton regardless, it's definitely a great tool that I don't think is being properly judged. That being said, I don't think Sheer Cold Suicune should be the only thing you consider when using Suicune, CM Chesto Rest Suicune is a BSS staple and I've been enjoying it here too.

Seriously, though, I've been torn over Sturdy or Magnet Pull Magneton. Sturdy takes care of ColdCune, but Magnet Pull kills Skarmory... And the Evolute set looks more appealing to me... still, it would suck to get demolished by Suicune just because I don't have a Sturdy Pokemon.
I'd say all three of Magneton's abilities have merit but Sturdy is probably best, generally speaking. Not just for Suicune, but it turns Magneton into a destructive wallbreaker that can easily function as a last-resort revenge killer to most threats if Sturdy is active. Magneton is also not slow, base 70 means it can outspeed Adamant Dragonite if it runs Timid, which can let it revenge kill CB/Specs Dragonite, or any Dragonite in general if Multiscale is broken. Overall I don't think Magnet Pull is that good though, trapping in general is tougher in 3v3 and I think Magneton generally prefers the safety net with Sturdy.
 

Theorymon

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To add to the Suicune discussion, I saw someone on the ladder use a SubCM Suicune set. It actually seemed pretty clever, as it uses Sheer Cold Suicune as total set up bait!
 
So, If you had to use Venusaur, how you you guys use it? I've read about a Subseed Venusaur, but is it viable on a 3 vs. 3? I loved using my Sub seed Whimsicott in Flash Clash, But I don't know if it's appropriate for this specific competition... And what other options would you have with Venusaur?

Sorry for all the questions... But I'm new at this and this forum and you all that participate in threads like this one are literaly my Pokemon teachers! I've learned soooo much with all the posts! Thank you to everyone! :)
For subseed Venu, I'm assuming it's 252 HP / 252 Def Bold (or Calm) to allow it to tank as many hits as possible.

For now, I'm testing a Modest 236 HP / 252 Sp Att / 20 Spe Venu to help counter Azumarill, but I'm considering one with 104 Speed to cover ones with max speed.

The Modest one has been fine for now, so unless Jolly Azu's see a major rise, I may just stick with that one.
 
What's wrong with cloned Pokemon? And by hacked I assume you mean RNG. All completely legal. Most of what you've said seems antiquated at best, outdated at least and kind of incorrect.
I'm not arguing legality. Let me make that clear, it is legal to use clones. I merely mentioned that I don't think it will remain legal in the future and that's why I don't battle w them. Im arguing that even with cloning, ColdCune still has a limited distribution. That and 3v3 and low AC, I don't think I'll see many and the ones I do see won't be any more of a threat than his other sets, like Crocune. That said, Suicide is still a top threat to me.

Edit: there's nothing wrong with clones. I use them all the time, especially in breeding. But let's be honest with ourselves dude, they're kinda like cheating, depending on your view. That's why their use strikes a cord w players world wide. Some players choose to use them to varying degrees. I am a player that chooses to use them as a utility but not for battle. But that's me. You do what you want, I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do. I'll battle against your team of clones all day.
 
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Now I find that my buddy Venusaur can be a good answer to Spore Smeargle (unless it goes crazy with Dark Void). Grass-types aren't affected by that as of Gen 6. Only problem is that I don't know which to use: I've got two with Hidden Power Fire, one being Bold (Mega-Venusaur set) and another being Timid, then a third one Modest with Hidden Power Ice and Weather Ball. This one would be great alongside Ninetales, but I don't think it's worthy to put in the team, even if it makes more easy to activate Chlorophyll. Overgrow could even seem usable. The first two can handle Scizor, while the third one isn't afraid of Dragonite at all, yet still... a big counter would be Poison-types like Gengar, faster Psychic-types like Alakazam, and Fire-types like Entei. Flying-type attacks don't seem to be common tho, I can only imagine Crobat and Skarmory. Also not sure on how the set should be in the end. Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire cover important things, then the fourth move could be something like Synthesis. Stun Spore just doesn't seem very reliable out of SubSeed.

It would replace Gengar in my team, who is mostly there because of Destiny Bond, which is still a cool niche.
 
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cant say

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then a third one Modest with Hidden Power Ice and Weather Ball. This one would be great alongside Ninetales, but I don't think it's worthy to put in the team, even if it makes more easy to activate Chlorophyll.
Chlorophyll + Weather Ball isn't possible, as the event Bulbasaur came only with Overgrow...
 

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