Project Don't Use That, Use This! (Closed)

[Melons-N-Soda]

Fraxure @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Stomping Tantrum
- Low Kick / Taunt

Simply put, Fraxure has a much better ability that allows it to, for example, hit Bronzor through Levitate with Stomping Tantrum, more useful resistances (and less common weaknesses), and is much stronger overall. Fraxure also has a better speed tier compared to Whishcash, and can run Taunt as well to stallbreak. The fact that it doesn't need a Z-Move in order to hit most things in the tier neutrally is a bonus.

Simipour @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Substitute / Focus Blast

Simipour is a much better Specially Attacking Water-type wallbreaker than Wailord for a number of reasons. It doesn't need a Choice Scarf to be fast, relieving it from the pressures of being Choice Locked, plus it doesn't have the drawbacks settled with Water Spout, and as a result it is stronger than Wailord overall when Water Spout's damage output gets nerfed. Simipour also has much a much better secondary coverage option in Focus Blast.

 

[Sacrificed]

(Sets are directly taken from vr threat)

Wishiwashi @ Life Orb
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass] / Hidden Power [Fire]

Even though floatzel and swanna aka two best offensive waters outclasses wailord. I think that comparing wishi with wailord is more clear.First and foremost they are both slow offensive juggernauts(in wailords case water spout) that uses specs.The thing that makes wishiwashi much superior option is that wailord so much relies on water spout to the point that when the move is nerfed it becomes underwhelming .While wishi also faces same problem when its at low hp(becomes solo form) and also it is slower.It comes with gargantuan 140 offensives and much better bulk unlike wailord.Being very slow makes it awesome trick room addition and renders its usability of wailord in any other archetype also if you think its ability discourages you from using it can be used with wish lickilicky/komala aka two best wish passers.(shoutouts Union Caboche to explaing me that it can be used with wish not just as a trick room abuser)

Huntail @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 248 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam
- Sucker Punch
- Shell Smash

Whichash is cool lower tier mon in theory with very nice typing and dragon dance but it is power is mediocre, it cant punish grass types and it lacks support options that it is not worth using on most of the team and makes it extremely niche mon on the other hand while huntail can only set up once in most cases it has much better power,can punish grass types with ice beam and also has access to sucker punch in a case with facing scarfers.

 

[Graceclaw]

Reserving Bibarel (Whiscash) and Floatzel (Wailord)

Bibarel @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet
- Quick Attack
- Return

Bibarel directly outclasses Whiscash as a Water-type setup sweeper, because it only takes one turn to become ridiculously threatening and has access to dual priority that negates its lesser speed. Granted, it doesn't get past Gourgeist like Whiscash does, but it has an easier time getting to the point where it threatens to sweep or break teams and is not abusable by fast mons and scarfers (Whiscash struggles to outspeed much of anything at +1 and needs +2 to begin to outspeed things, and even the is outsped by *insert any scarfer here* and threatened/weakened).

Shiftry's prominence makes it almost impossible for Whiscash to get comfortable, and you have to blow Z-Bounce on it instead of Gourgeist ifboth are on the same team.

tl;dr: Use Bibs, it's scary as heck and Whiscash can't really justify itself as a Water-type setup sweeper in the face of it

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Focus Blast

Floatzel (both LO and Specs) completely outclasses Scarf Wailord because it outputs similar damage while maintaining higher speed and versatility. Floatzel outspeeds scarf Wailord by 1 point and can switch moves with Life Orb (if you choose that over Specs)

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 267-315 (73.9 - 87.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 231-273 (63.9 - 75.6%)
252+ SpA Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 276-325 (76.4 - 90%)
252 SpA Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 252-297 (69.8 - 82.2%)

The above calcs assume Wailord is at 100% HP, which it almost never is (especially after rocks), and I even included a Modest Wailord calc in there to show how it's really not actually very strong.

Floatzel also has the ability to change moves with the Life Orb set and hit its switchin with a coverage option, while Wailord is forced to switch out and come back in (probably to rocks) and basically just blow up.

Tl;dr: Scarf Wailord doesn't actually hit very hard at all, and Floatzel outspeeds it and beats it in versatility.

 

[Tuthur]

Reserving Bibarel (Whiscash) and Floatzel (Wailord)

Please finish this in order the voting stage to begin.

 

[Tuthur]

Voting stage is now open.
Whiscash Submission:
- BU Floatzel
- Fraxure
- Huntail
- Bibarel

Wailord Submission
- Swanna
- Simipour
- Wishiwashi
- Special Floatzel

 

[BP]

Whiscash = Fraxure

Wailord = Floatzel

 

[5gen]

Whiscash -> Fraxure
Wailord -> Special Floatzel

 

[Xayah]

Whiscash -> Fraxure
Wailord -> Special Floatzel

 

[Graceclaw]

Whiscash ---> Huntail
Wailord ----> Wishiwashi

 

[SBPC]

Whiscash -> Fraxure
Wailord -> Floatzel

 

[TerrickTerran]

Whiscash Huntail
Wailord Floatzel

 

[Tuthur]

Results:
Floatzel: 0
Fraxure: 4
Huntail: 2
Bibarel: 0

Swanna: 0
Simipour: 0
Wishiwashi: 1
Floatzel: 5

So here are our winners:

Fraxure @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly / Adamant
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Stomping Tantrum
- Low Kick / Taunt

Simply put, Fraxure has a much better ability that allows it to, for example, hit Bronzor through Levitate with Stomping Tantrum, more useful resistances (and less common weaknesses), and is much stronger overall. Fraxure also has a better speed tier compared to Whishcash, and can run Taunt as well to stallbreak. The fact that it doesn't need a Z-Move in order to hit most things in the tier neutrally is a bonus.

View attachment 167215

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Focus Blast

Floatzel (both LO and Specs) completely outclasses Scarf Wailord because it outputs similar damage while maintaining higher speed and versatility. Floatzel outspeeds scarf Wailord by 1 point and can switch moves with Life Orb (if you choose that over Specs)

Calcs

252 SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 267-315 (73.9 - 87.2%)
252 SpA Life Orb Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 231-273 (63.9 - 75.6%)
252+ SpA Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 276-325 (76.4 - 90%)
252 SpA Wailord Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Whiscash: 252-297 (69.8 - 82.2%)

The above calcs assume Wailord is at 100% HP, which it almost never is (especially after rocks), and I even included a Modest Wailord calc in there to show how it's really not actually very strong.

Floatzel also has the ability to change moves with the Life Orb set and hit its switchin with a coverage option, while Wailord is forced to switch out and come back in (probably to rocks) and basically just blow up.

Tl;dr: Scarf Wailord doesn't actually hit very hard at all, and Floatzel outspeeds it and beats it in versatility.

 

[Tuthur]

Week 3
This time a Pokemon with two sets. You're allowed to submit one alternative for each set.

Magcargo @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power

Magcargo with its high bulk, useful resistances to Normal, Bug and Fire, support movepool and access to reliable recovery let it attractive at first glance. However it has weaknesses to very common offensive type in Water, Rock and Ground preventing it from checking a huge part of the metagame.

Magcargo @ White Herb
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power

Magcargo has access to one of the best setup move in game in Shell Smash as well a strong STAB move in Fire Blast and good coverage in Earth Power. However, Magcargo is very slow and even at +2 in Speed it gets outsped by a lot of common Pokemon such as Floatzel and Choice Scarf Electivire, which can then OHKO it.

 

[Sacrificed]

Reserving bronzor(set 1) and crustle(set 2)

Sets are directly taken from vr threat

Bronzor @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Psywave
- Stealth Rock
- Rest
Even though magcargo has useful resists such normal and fire and it has recovery,it is poor candidate for its job simply because of its weakness to common typings such as ground,water and fighting which are really great offensive types in ZU and the set has poor matchup against swanna and altaria which are main defoggers and also considering magcargo is also one of the slowest mons in zu you got very poor rocker that does not worth using.
While its true that bronzor is and if not one of the most passive pokemon in ZU and also it does not have reliable recovery.With it s Steel typing plus levitate makes it able to check plethora of offensive mons and can even beat common defoggers such as altaria and swanna which magcargo has trouble with it,unlike magcargo it has a luxury of fitting toxic which can annoy its switchins.

Crustle @ White Herb or Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
Magcargo has also trouble with sweeping shell smash because at +2 it hits 319 speed which is quite slow for whats it supposed to(like SS magcargo can be revenge killed by positive speed nature swanna and simipour which is disappointing) and not even mention that it has weak to priority such a jet and mach punch not as strong as crustle because of its 90 base attacking stats(crustle s 125 atk vs magcargo s 90 spa).First crustle has also problems with being weak to rocks and revenged by a jet and scarf evire.It hits much better speed tier at 378 which allows to outspeed threats such as rapidash,kadabra and jumpluff.Second with the ability sturdy it can find much more oppurtinity to use SS something that magcargo wishes to have because of its typing.Third It has more raw power than it and also not weak to mach punch/wacuum wave.For this reason crustle is outright superior option mag as a SS user.Just stay away from these fellows

and you will be fine.

 

[SBPC]

Golem @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 224 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Golem makes for a much better rocker than Magcargo, due to it's strong physical bulk, it's ability in sturdy allowing it to avoid ohko while at full health, and it's STAB EdgeQuake, making for incredible offensive coverage.

 

[BP]

Grass-types Rise Up

Cradily @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Toxic / Sludge Bomb
- Stealth Rock
- Recover

This Cradily is something I've played around with a lot recently. It's a great Anit-meta Stealth Rock user with a considerable amount of bulk as well as reliable recovery and access to a great ability. Regarding typing, the type Cradily has to worry about most is fighting. Ice and Steel aren't as much of a threat.

Silk Spectre (Servine) @ Eviolite / Leppa Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Glare

Servine is a great alternative to Shell smash Macargo due to its access to both Contrary and Glare. With Glare Servine can spread status and outspeed its opponents. Thanks to Contrary each and every Leaf Storm allows Servine a +2 boost each time it uses it. Furthermore, Servine doesn't have as many weaknesses as Macargo and isn't as slow.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Simisear @ Firium Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Ice / Taunt
- Grass Knot / Focus Blast

As a special attacking Fire-type sweeper, Simisear pulls it off much better than Magcargo. For one, Simisear has a much better speed tier and is better against most priority users. Access to Taunt allows it stallbreak a little bit as well, something Magcargo simply can't do. More initial power as well is a good bonus. In terms of coverage, while Simisear doesn't possess a Special EdgeQuake, it still hits almost everything it really needs to.

 

[Tuthur]

Combusken @ Fightinium Z / Firium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Electric
- Protect

While Combusken hits less hard than Magcargo, it's more unpredictable since it can be played on the physical side. Combusken also has a better typing letting it resisting Sucker Punch from Shiftry and a better STAB move in Focus Blast (because Ancient Power is a very bad move). Combusken also doesn't need to waste a turn to set up thanks to Speed Boost.

Also I'd like to start vote asap so please think about finishing your submissions.

 

[Tuthur]

Camerupt (set 1)

Please write this.

 

[Tuthur]

Well sorry Graceclaw but I need to keep this thread active. However if you finish this early I can still had you to the vote list.
Voting is now open:
Set 1:
- Bronzor
- Golem
- Cradily

Set 2:
-Crustle
-Servine
-Simisear
-Combusken

 

[Graceclaw]

My apologies; I thought the draft had saved and I'd be able to pick it up from mobile while on vaca.

Set 1: Cradily
Set 2: Crushle

 

[BP]

Golem
Crustle

 

[Xayah]

Golem
Crustle

Would've voted Camerupt cause it's the closest replacement but oh well

 

[Aaronboyer]

Cradily
Simisear

 

[5gen]

Golem and Crustle