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Project Don't Use This! Use That! (1v1 Edition)

lost heros

Meme Master
Approved by Quote and stolen from LC who stole it from RU who stole it from somewhere else. Banner by me please make me a new one.
178730


Don't Use This! Use That!
1v1 Edition


178729

The purpose of this thread is to discuss common sets that are seen as overrated and suggest better alternatives. There are a lot of Pokemon and sets in the usage stats that are ineffective, and we should raise awareness that these sets are not optimal. Furthermore, there are a few Pokemon that don't even deserve to be in the tier because they simply do not work effectively. There are certain Pokemon being used on the ladder in a way that reduces their viability. For example, Mega Lopunny is often seen with Fake Out and Last Resort, which lacks the offensive power and coverage options that a set utilizing Giga Impact can provide. You can also suggest alternative Pokemon that outclass another in a certain role, such as suggesting Mega Charizard Y over Ninetales for an offensive special Fire type. If you think a Pokemon or set is wrongfully being accused of being ineffective, you are encouraged to discuss why you think that way.

*Please do not use this thread to bash Pokemon, try to educate the playerbase and teach them what not to use. Any offensive posts will be deleted/edited.

Please try to format your posts like the example post below.

Don't Use: Last Resort




Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Last Resort

Why it's bad:

While it's initially tempting to use Fake Out and Last resort as a deadly combo to KO many Pokemon at high speeds, it loses out on so many match-ups because it doesn't take full advantage of it's offensive typing and moveset. Solely relying on last resort for damage means it's almost impossible to KO Steel- and Rock-type pokemon like Aggron, Heatran, and Golem. Furthermore with only one attacking move and no utility bulky pokemon can simply recover easily against Mega Lopunny.

Use: High Jump Kick + Giga Impact





Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Giga Impact
- High Jump Kick
- Filler

Why it's better:

Because this is a 1v1 setting, Giga Impacts more immediate damage can secure some notable KOs that might otherwise be rolls like on Offensive Mega Charizard X.
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 63-75 (21.2 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Last Resort vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 217-256 (73 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Giga Impact vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 232-274 (78.1 - 92.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As well thanks to the ability to use High Jump Kick can be used to break pokemon like Aggron, Golem, Heatran, and Aegislash and other Rock- and Steel-types.
Furthermore this also leaves Mega Lopunny with a flexible fourth option which can be Ice Punch to hit Landorus-Therian and Zygarde, Substitute to avoid Toxic, or encore to PP stall out recovery moves.

Overall this set hits more things harder than the last resort set.


Some things to begin discussion
- Unoptimized spreads of popular bulky pokemon like Mega Charizard X/Y and Mega Gyarados
- Popular Gimmicks like FEAR that are performed more effectively on a different user
- Pokemon using Z Crystals that can better be done by another pokemon with more power or defensive utility

I'll be linking the all the Don't Uses below!
 
Last edited:
Alright I'll give it a go coach
Don't Use: Close Combat Electrium Zeraora


Zeraora @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Bulk Up

Why It's Bad:
Close Combat is helpful for little outside of Tyranitar in conjunction with Bulk Up. It can also beat Heatran, but just running Charge without Close Combat can beat Heatran. Additionally, going max speed is unnecessary as Zeraora is at a rather unique speed tier. This set may also have some troubles with Earthquake Gyarados, as it does not reliably OHKO and does not reliably tank an Earthquake even with Bulk Up.

Use: Outrage Electrium Zeraora


Zeraora @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 120 Def / 88 Spe (If you'd like you can run 192 Spe for Mega Lopunny and Mega Gengar)
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Outrage
- Bulk Up
- Fake Out/Charge

Why It's Better:
Outrage will let Zeraora beat Mega Charizard X, the most common Pokemon in the 1v1 tier. It also lets it beat Haxorus, as well as still retaining a move to use against opposing Zeraora. These bulk EVs are calculated to tank an offensive Mega Charizard X Outrage, then hit back with an Outrage of your own, winning the game. It also will tank Gyarados' Earthquake. The Speed EVs are more optimized to outspeed Greninja but a speed for Mega Lopunny can also be run.
 
Alright, here's my pitch:

mIxED ZErAoRA

Zeraora @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 92 HP / 196 Def / 28 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Taunt/Fake Out
- Charge
- Thunder
- Plasma Fists

Now why in the world would you run mixed?
Because with a charge, your EV's almost don't matter, also, it's more of a special attacker, since Z-Thunder is stronger.

Here's a list of it's wins/losses on the main VR:
W= Win
L=Loss
SD: Set dependant
R: Reliant on either taunt or fake out.
HD: Hax Dependant
PD: Prediction Dependant
S Rank



Charizard-Mega W against Y, L against X

Dragonite SD/R Requires Fake out, wins against special variant, loses to Physical

Gyarados-Mega W

Magearna W Charges Turn 1, lives any moves it throws out and obliterates it, if it boosts up, just Z in the opposing stat

A+ Rank

Porygon-Z SD Loses to Scarf Hyper Beam, wins against Conversion/Z-Hyper Beam

Tapu Lele SD

A Rank


Greninja W unless scarf


Magnezone Usually a W

Meloetta R Win with Fake out


Metagross-Mega W Lives an Earthquake and a bullet punch


Mew W


Slowbro-Mega W


Zygarde-Complete Big Fat L


A- Rank

Aegislash W

Gardevoir-Mega L, cuz friggin trace

Jumpluff W

Kommo-o L

Landorus-Therian L

Togekiss SD/HD Non scarf immidiatly dies, Scarf depends on Minimum 6 Air slash flinches

B+ Rank

Altaria-Mega L

Celesteela W

Clefable W

Donphan L



Garchomp L

Genesect SD: Loses to Scarf, Wins to Specs/Z

Heatran W

Lopunny-Mega W

Primarina W

Sableye-Mega W

Tapu Fini W

Tyranitar-Mega L

Venusaur-Mega L

Zeraora SD, but usually a loss


B Rank


Aggron-Mega SD Wins to regular Aggron, loses to custap/endure Aggron


Crustle R wins with Fake out

Ferrothorn L

Incineroar L
jirachi.png

Jirachi SD/HD: Regular Scarf needs 4 heart stamps to kill, needs at least 3 flinches. Loses Pretty badly to Z-Celebrate

Kartana SD: One shots regular scarf and fast band with Z-Thunder, loses to Bulky Z-Leaf Blade

Magneton Usually a W

Mawile-Mega: L

Naganadel: L

Necrozma: W

Pinsir-Mega: W

Porygon2: W

Victini: L

Volcarona: W

B- Rank


Archeops L

audino-mega.png

Audino-Mega W


Blastoise-Mega W




Blaziken L

Camerupt-Mega L

Carracosta R Needs fake out

Deoxys-S W

Diancie-Mega W

Durant W

Golem L

Haxorus L

Hoopa-Unbound R: Need Fake Out

Krookodile L

Kyurem L

Latias-Mega L

Manaphy W

Medicham-Mega R, Needs Fake Out

Raikou SD, Wins if only running electric moves, loses if hp ice or Rest.

Sawk W

Swampert-Mega L

Vivillon W

Whimsicott L Requires Taunt to even have a chance of winning, and loses to Taunt, also loses to moonblast/Z-Twinkle Tackle variant

Zapdos W

C+ Rank
ambipom.png

Ambipom W

Avalugg W

Blacephalon SD Lose to scarf, win against specs/Z

Chansey R Requires Taunt
emboar.png

Emboar W/R, Wins against scarf, Needs Fake out for Band/Z (Scarf is most common tho)

Gallade-Mega W (Most suckers will willo turn 1 lol)

Gengar-Mega HD/PD You can either charge, and hope for a turn 2 wake, or you can taunt expecting a hypnosis then charge and kaboom them.

Gigalith L

Heracross-Mega W Surprisingly lives 5 pin missiles or a close combat to the face

Latios L

Nihilego W

Pheromosa L

Rotom-Heat L

Salamence SD/R/PD Wins against Fast and bulky Sala and Mega, Loses to Adamant max attack z-outrage/DDance with a bad prediction

Scizor-Mega W
scolipede.png

Scolipede L
scrafty.png

Scrafty W

Skarmory W

Steelix-Mega L

Tapu Bulu L

Terrakion SD: Wins against Rockium/Band, loses to scarf

Type: Null W

Umbreon W

Xurkitree W

C Rank



Alakazam L


Blissey R Requires Taunt


Buzzwole W


Crobat W

Empoleon W

Entei W

Excadrill L

Infernape W

Keldeo W
lilligant.png

Lilligant R Requires Taunt

Lycanroc-Dusk W

Marowak-Alola SD Flat out loses to Lightning Rod

Pidgeot-Mega W

Pyukumuku W

Rhyperior L

Serperior L

Slaking L

Smeargle W

Thundurus-Therian L

Volcanion W


C- Rank

Alomomola W

Azumarill W

Bellossom SD Wins with taunt

Chandelure SD Loses to Scarf and Modest Z-Fire Blast, Wins against specs, Jolly Z-Fire Blast and Z-Shadow Ball
chesnaught.png

Chesnaught L

Cloyster W

Darmanitan HD Lives a Flare Blitz and has a 75% roll for Z-Thunder in Zera's favour

Gliscor L

Hydreigon L

Illumise W


Landorus L


Lucario-Mega W Z-Thunders turn 1 for a 93.8% roll
mamoswine.png

Mamoswine L

Muk-Alola W

Ninetales-Alola W

Quagsire L
reuniclus.png

Reuniclus W

Salazzle W



Sceptile L

Staraptor W

Suicune W

Talonflame W

Togedemaru W


D Rank

Abomasnow-Mega L

Araquanid W

Arcanine W

Aron SD: Requires Taunt

Breloom L

Dhelmise L

Hawlucha W

Rampardos W Actually one shots with z-thunder

Relicanth R Requires fake out
riolu.png

Riolu L

Stakataka W

Sylveon R Requires Taunt to beat out Yawn and Endure

So Essentially,
Why it's good:
Charge is dumb strong, and can be used to one shot essentially anything that doesn't resist it, after living essentially living most attacks due to the defensive EV's plus the special defense, and can run either taunt or Fake Out for coverage.
I rest my case.

Why it's better than Eriey's:
Zeraora is pretty predictable, so most of the time, opponent's will send a physically defensive pokemon to wall it.
For my set, it doesn't matter what they predict, I can attack them in both sides of the attacking spectrum.
Also charge boosts your electric move better than bulk up.
So aside from losing to dragon types, this zeraora beats many things that the top Zeraora just can't.
 
Last edited:
Do Not Use: Choice Scarf Kyurem
Kyurem @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast

Why it's bad:
Choice Scarf Kyurem relies on its decent Speed and Special Attack stats to KO opponents. Poor coverage moves don't allow Kyurem to beat many defensive Pokemon such as Golem, Donphan, and others.

Use: Noble Roar Kyurem
Kyurem @ Groundium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 224 HP / 136 Def / 148 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Noble Roar
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Why it’s better: Noble Roar Kyurem maximizes Kyurem’s bulk, ability, and access to roost. It allows it to beat most of the things scarf does more reliably, and beats generally more, such as Choice Scarf Porygon Z and Choice Scarf Haxorus. Noble Roar variants carry a lot of clout in this meta for good reasons, as they allow Kyurem to turn from a waste of a legendary into a defensive behemoth that can take down numerous opposing stall pokemon as well.
 
Zeraora @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 92 HP / 196 Def / 28 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Taunt/Fake Out
- Charge
- Thunder
- Plasma Fists
Double post BUT!
Zeraora @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 80 HP / 52 Atk / 252 Def / 36 SpA / 88 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Charge
- Thunder
- Plasma Fists

Why it’s good: Beats Metagross and Magearna 100% of the time. loses to lopunny tho.

Why it’s better: M24’s set doesn’t KO magearna, which is unfort asf, also people EXPECT zera to beat lop so it’s like him saying that they’ll go a phys wall v mixed zera, as PhysDef Mixed can scare the opponent from using lopunny. Mixed Zera NEEDS to beat Pokemon that you know, beat physical, like Magearna, and also shouldn’t lose to one of its better MUs, Metagross


Also!

Don’t use this! FEAR Nosepass
Nosepass @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 9
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Toxic
- Pain Split
- Magic Coat
- Rock Blast

why it’s bad: Nosepass is an especially bad FEAR pokemon, due to its lack of a steel typing, making it susceptible to toxic damage.

Use this!

Probopass @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 8
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Toxic
- Pain Split
- Magic Coat
- Rock Blast

Probopass has the added benefit of the steel typing, making it immune to toxic damage, this drastically improves its viability.
 
Last edited:
M24’s set doesn’t KO magearna,
What Magearna set in particular were you thinking of? My Zera beats the standard ID/CM one on the sets page.

Also:
Probopass @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 8
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Toxic
- Pain Split
- Magic Coat
- Rock Blast
Why it's bad:
Cough Cough Taunt, Cough Cough Poison Types, Cough Cough

Use This!

Aron @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Sandstorm
- Metal Burst

Aron beats out the usual threats that'll taunt it by using endeavor along with metal burst, plus can actually kill poison types.
 
Alright, here's my pitch:

mIxED ZErAoRA

Zeraora @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 92 HP / 196 Def / 28 SpA / 192 Spe
Naive Nature
- Taunt/Fake Out
- Charge
- Thunder
- Plasma Fists

Now why in the world would you run mixed?
Because with a charge, your EV's almost don't matter, also, it's more of a special attacker, since Z-Thunder is stronger.

Here's a list of it's wins/losses on the main VR:
W= Win
L=Loss
SD: Set dependant
R: Reliant on either taunt or fake out.
HD: Hax Dependant
PD: Prediction Dependant
S Rank



Charizard-Mega W against Y, L against X

Dragonite SD/R Requires Fake out, wins against special variant, loses to Physical

Gyarados-Mega W With your strangely bulky set, it should win, but you could've just gone more SpA :|

Magearna W Charges Turn 1, lives any moves it throws out and obliterates it, if it boosts up, just Z in the opposing stat
0 Atk Zeraora Fake Out vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Magearna: 13-15 (3.5 - 4.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+2 0 Atk Zeraora Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Magearna: 345-406 (95 - 111.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (assuming low roll on Fake Out)
Still pretty good, unless they run extra defense


A+ Rank

Porygon-Z SD Loses to Scarf Hyper Beam, wins against Conversion/Z-Hyper Beam

Tapu Lele SD 0 Atk Zeraora Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 271-319 (93.7 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
0+ SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. +1 92 HP / 0- SpD Zeraora in Psychic Terrain: 348-409 (102.3 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tapu Lele Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. +1 92 HP / 0- SpD Zeraora in Psychic Terrain: 316-373 (92.9 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

A Rank


Greninja W unless scarf


Magnezone Usually a W

Meloetta R Win with Fake out Can't just spamming Plasma Fists do the trick for you?


Metagross-Mega W Lives an Earthquake and a bullet punch They can whip out Rock Tomb A straight up win is misleading, you would also have troubles with Substitute


Mew W


Slowbro-Mega W


Zygarde-Complete Big Fat L


A- Rank

Aegislash W
188+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. +1 92 HP / 0- SpD Zeraora: 274-324 (80.5 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
12 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 92 HP / 196 Def Zeraora: 63-75 (18.5 - 22%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (Assuming low roll)

Gardevoir-Mega L, cuz friggin trace

Jumpluff W If they get lucky enough they can potentially win
:psygrump:
Kommo-o L

Landorus-Therian L

Togekiss SD/HD Non scarf immidiatly dies, Scarf depends on Minimum 6 Air slash flinches

B+ Rank

Altaria-Mega L

Celesteela W

Clefable W Technically it can Reflect then Z-Magic Coat
0 SpA Unaware Clefable Moonblast vs. 92 HP / 0- SpD Zeraora: 132-156 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO it doesn't care about your SpD boosts

Donphan L



Garchomp L

Genesect SD: Loses to Scarf, Wins to Specs/Z You would lose except Scarf doesn't do enough damage Very big sad that you gave Genesect a SpA boost

Heatran W

Lopunny-Mega W Technically not guaranteed but mostly yes

Primarina W

Sableye-Mega W You can technically be cheesed by Wisp Calm Mind Physically Defensive Sableye because of your lack of offense

Tapu Fini W

Tyranitar-Mega L

Venusaur-Mega L

Zeraora SD, but usually a loss


B Rank


Aggron-Mega SD Wins to regular Aggron, loses to custap/endure Aggron You don't lose because it depends on how you play it


Crustle R wins with Fake out

Ferrothorn L

Incineroar L This is something your set kinda has over mine; you tank Incineroar then kill with Charged Z-Thunder

jirachi.png

Jirachi SD/HD: Regular Scarf needs 4 heart stamps to kill, needs at least 3 flinches. Loses Pretty badly to Z-Celebrate
It's Happy Hour not Celebrate

Kartana SD: One shots regular scarf and fast band with Z-Thunder, loses to Bulky Z-Leaf Blade
#EVS

Magneton Usually a W

Mawile-Mega: L You can actually sometimes win against SpD with this set
8 Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 92 HP / 192 Def Zeraora: 205-243 (60.2 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 92 HP / 192 Def Zeraora: 107-126 (31.4 - 37%) -- 79.7% chance to 3HKO

Naganadel: L You outspeed and Charge then kill

Necrozma: W
208+ SpA Choice Specs Necrozma Prismatic Laser vs. +1 92 HP / 0- SpD Zeraora: 367-433 (107.9 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO #EVS

Pinsir-Mega: W

Porygon2: W Trace

Victini: L You can win against Psychium

Volcarona: W

B- Rank


Archeops L Not all of them are Scarf, and also 252+ Atk Archeops Head Smash vs. 92 HP / 192 Def Zeraora: 288-339 (84.7 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

audino-mega.png

Audino-Mega W


Blastoise-Mega W




Blaziken L You and your silly Physical Defense won you another matchup!

Camerupt-Mega L

Carracosta R Needs fake out

Deoxys-S W It depends on taunt playing

Diancie-Mega W Looks like you die to Non-Mega Rock Tomb to Mega Diamond Storm

Durant W

Golem L

Haxorus L

Hoopa-Unbound R: Need Fake Out

Krookodile L

Kyurem L

Latias-Mega L

Manaphy W

Medicham-Mega R, Needs Fake Out

Raikou SD, Wins if only running electric moves, loses if hp ice or Rest.

Sawk W Need Fake Out?

Swampert-Mega L

Vivillon W

Whimsicott L Requires Taunt to even have a chance of winning, and loses to Taunt, also loses to moonblast/Z-Twinkle Tackle variant
So you don't even beat it with taunt

Zapdos W

C+ Rank
ambipom.png

Ambipom W

Avalugg W

Blacephalon SD Lose to scarf, win against specs/Z

Chansey R Requires Taunt +2 0 Atk Zeraora Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 564-664 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO You can potentially get Countered
emboar.png

Emboar W/R, Wins against scarf, Needs Fake out for Band/Z (Scarf is most common tho)

Gallade-Mega W (Most suckers will willo turn 1 lol)
192 Atk Gallade-Mega Rock Tomb vs. 92 HP / 192 Def Zeraora: 77-91 (22.6 - 26.7%) -- 30.4% chance to 4HKO
192 Atk Gallade-Mega Close Combat vs. 92 HP / 192 Def Zeraora: 229-270 (67.3 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Can't Fake Out because Inner Focus, and you don't ohko with Z Move

Gengar-Mega HD/PD You can either charge, and hope for a turn 2 wake, or you can taunt expecting a hypnosis then charge and kaboom them.

Gigalith L

Heracross-Mega W Surprisingly lives 5 pin missiles or a close combat to the face

Latios L

Nihilego W

Pheromosa L

Rotom-Heat L

Salamence SD Wins against Fast and bulky Sala and Mega, Loses to Adamant max attack z-outrage MEGA WHAT

Scizor-Mega W
scolipede.png

Scolipede L
scrafty.png

Scrafty W

Skarmory W

Steelix-Mega L

Tapu Bulu L

Terrakion SD: Wins against Rockium/Band, loses to scarf

Type: Null W Not without Taunt anyway

Umbreon W

Xurkitree W

C Rank



Alakazam L


Blissey R Requires Taunt Z Charm buddy


Buzzwole W


Crobat W

Empoleon W

Entei W

Excadrill L

Infernape W

Keldeo W
lilligant.png

Lilligant R Requires Taunt

Lycanroc-Dusk W

Marowak-Alola SD Flat out loses to Lightning Rod

Pidgeot-Mega W

Pyukumuku W

Rhyperior L

Serperior L

Slaking L Fake Out

Smeargle W

Thundurus-Therian L

Volcanion W


C- Rank

Alomomola W

Azumarill W

Bellossom SD Wins with taunt

Chandelure SD Loses to Scarf and Modest Z-Fire Blast, Wins against specs, Jolly Z-Fire Blast and Z-Shadow Ball
chesnaught.png

Chesnaught L

Cloyster W

Darmanitan HD Lives a Flare Blitz and has a 75% roll for Z-Thunder in Zera's favour

Gliscor L

Hydreigon L

Illumise W


Landorus L


Lucario-Mega W Z-Thunders turn 1 for a 93.8% roll
mamoswine.png

Mamoswine L

Muk-Alola W

Ninetales-Alola W

Quagsire L
reuniclus.png

Reuniclus W

Salazzle W



Sceptile L

Staraptor W

Suicune W

Talonflame W

Togedemaru W


D Rank

Abomasnow-Mega L

Araquanid W

Arcanine W

Aron SD: Requires Taunt You can just spam Plasma Fists

Breloom L

Dhelmise L

Hawlucha W

Rampardos W Actually one shots with z-thunder

Relicanth R Requires fake out
riolu.png

Riolu L

Stakataka W

Sylveon R Requires Taunt to beat out Yawn and Endure

So Essentially,
Why it's good:
Charge is dumb strong, and can be used to one shot essentially anything that doesn't resist it, after living essentially living most attacks due to the defensive EV's plus the special defense, and can run either taunt or Fake Out for coverage.
I rest my case.

Why it's better than Eriey's:
Zeraora is pretty predictable Well that's a new sight, so most of the time, opponent's will send a physically defensive pokemon to wall it.
For my set, it doesn't matter what they predict, I can attack them in both sides of the attacking spectrum.
Also charge boosts your electric move better than bulk up.
So aside from losing to dragon types, this zeraora beats many things that the top Zeraora just can't.
Oh no I didn't forget about Mixed I just figured it wouldn't be as applicable as Outrage
Mixed Electrium (Zeraora) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 60 Atk / 168 SpA / 128 SpD / 152 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Thunder
- Charge
- Fake Out

What this does is you actually live Tapu Lele's Z-Psychic (given they're 0 SpA Modest; if they're offensive you have to attack t1)
Also Taunt for Jumpluff ig? Ooh and Type:null
 
What Magearna set in particular were you thinking of? My Zera beats the standard ID/CM one on the sets page.

Also:


Why it's bad:
Cough Cough Taunt, Cough Cough Poison Types, Cough Cough

Use This!

Aron @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Sandstorm
- Metal Burst

Aron beats out the usual threats that'll taunt it by using endeavor along with metal burst, plus can actually kill poison types.
Taunt gets booped back by Magic Coat. There are very few viable poison types in this meta. The only poison type that Aron beats is Naga and Maybe like Nidoking and Tenta but they aren’t really real things
 
Oh no I didn't forget about Mixed I just figured it wouldn't be as applicable as Outrage
Mixed Electrium (Zeraora) @ Electrium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 60 Atk / 168 SpA / 128 SpD / 152 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Thunder
- Charge
- Fake Out

What this does is you actually live Tapu Lele's Z-Psychic (given they're 0 SpA Modest; if they're offensive you have to attack t1)
Also Taunt for Jumpluff ig? Ooh and Type:null
Losing the extra defense EV's and HP causes you to lose to a few physical and bulky mons, such as Metagross, Mega-Heracross, Mega-Scizor, etc.
 
Losing the extra defense EV's and HP causes you to lose to a few physical and bulky mons, such as Metagross, Mega-Heracross, Mega-Scizor, etc.
#TapuLeleKartanagang
You don't beat Magearna 100% I think is what he meant
 
Don't use Waterium Torrent Greninja

Greninja @ Waterium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 208 Def / 124 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hydro Cannon
- Water Shuriken
- Taunt

Why it's bad: Doesn't hit some targets hard enough, takes a 50/50 to Magearna.

Use Petaya Torrent Greninja

Greninja @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 208 Def / 124 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Hydro Cannon
- Work Up
- Taunt

Why it's better: Petaya's massive 1.5x boost lets you hit much harder, and work up lets you win 100% against key targets that try to boost up.
 

stableprince569

formerly SilvioGiovanna
Don't use: Leftovers and Moonblast Whimsicott
Use: Babiri Taunt

Whimsicott @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 212 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Taunt

This is what a top tier Whimsicott should run in terms of item, moves, and EVs. While moonblast might look like an appealing option, the only thing it actually beats is Mega Gyarados, since you lack the SpA investments to deal good damage to other relevant Dark types such as Tyranitar and Incineroar, while they have the offensive capabilities to deal back serious damage. Leftovers is just useless in most if not all case scenarios, since leech seed recovery usually gives you around 24-26% in two turns, enough to set up a substitute.
You can switch babiri berry with occa on this set depending on what you need to beat


Don't use: Cotton Guard Whimsicott
Use: Z-Charm

Whimsicott @ Fairium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Charm

For cotton guard to work properly, it has to transform a OHKO into a 3HKO, which a +3 simply isnt enough to do it reliably. Contrary to popular belief, +1 defense with -2 attack acts slightly better than a +4, not like a +3. The EVs are specifically made to beat 252+ Mega Metagross, and that's all the defense you need, since Pokemon like Victini will OHKO regardless, while other Steel- and Fire- type Pokemon like Excadrill pale in comparison with Metagross' strength. Also the item tradeoff is worth it, since Occa Berry or Babiri Berry don't do anything paired with cotton guard.
 

stableprince569

formerly SilvioGiovanna
Don't use: Last Resort Ambipom
Use this instead

four sour sore forearms (Ambipom) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Low Sweep
- Tickle
- Giga Impact

while Last Resort might seem tempting, as it gives you the opportunity to attack without 1 turn cooldown and has a 100% accuracy, this is 1v1, not NU. Ambipom can make good use of the moves Tickle and Low Sweep to beat threats that Last Resort can't, such as Incineroar, Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados. Adamant nature is also ran over Jolly, as Ambipom's speedtier allows it to outspeed both zards (and base 100s in general) by one point, making it so that further investing in speed is not worth it: Ambipom needs the extra attack power to OHKO Dragonite, both Charizards, and many other general threats.
 

lost heros

Meme Master
I'll be trying to do weekly posts of some !randpoke inspired Don't uses. Feel free to comment and improve these sets.


181235


Don't use: Z - Move Golisopod

Golisopod @ Waterium Z / Buginium Z
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Bulk Up
- First Impression

Why it's bad. Golisopod is a naturally slow and relatively physically bulky pokemon which may lend novice builders towards a Bulk Up Z-move set. However this set can't really stand up to other Bulk Up Pokemon like Krookodile or Scrafty because of its typing issues and moveset.

Use This! : Choice Band Golisopod
Golisopod @ Choice Band
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Drill Run / Giga Impact / Filler

Calcs shown in spoiler

This set, while not the most viable of sets, has an interesting niche. Choice Band First Impression is an interesting move as it has a high BP with a +2 priority allowing it to beat most Grass-type Speed Traps like Jumpluff, Whimsicott, Breloom and Smeargle or some fragile but fast pokemon like Greninja. Furthermore, with Choice Band Liquidation can be used against some Fire-type pokemon like Victini. Leech life is extremely helpful against bulkier targets and with no HP investment Golisopod can 50/50 Groundium Z Donphan by recovering off the Tectonic Rage or use Liquidation against the Head Smash.

vs Jumpluff
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jumpluff: 313-370 (107.5 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs Whimsicott
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Whimsicott: 270-318 (103.4 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs Breloom
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 282-333 (108 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs Smeargle
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Smeargle: 523-616 (208.3 - 245.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs Greninja
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 654-770 (229.4 - 270.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs Victini
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Golisopod: 229-270 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 444-524 (130.2 - 153.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

vs Donphan
252+ Atk Choice Band Golisopod Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Donphan: 178-211 (46.3 - 54.9%) -- 10.2% (30.5 - 36.2% recovered)
252+ Atk Donphan Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Golisopod: 95-112 (32.6 - 38.4%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
 
This set, while not the most viable of sets, has an interesting niche. Choice Band First Impression is an interesting move as it has a high BP with a +2 priority allowing it to beat most Grass-type Speed Traps like Jumpluff, Whimsicott, Breloom and Smeargle or some fragile but fast pokemon like Greninja.
Pluff, Breloom, and Whimsi just click protect and you lose lmao
 

stableprince569

formerly SilvioGiovanna
Pluff, Breloom, and Whimsi just click protect and you lose lmao
Pluff usually runs infestation over protect, and breloom (while being close to irrelevant in the tier) benefits way more by running moves like mach punch over protect.
But yes, Whimsicott just beats banded golisopod

Also, wasn't the default golisopod set AV?
 

Chickenpie2

red:active
is a Pre-Contributor
Also max hp does more for ya boi than max def:
56 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Golisopod: 126-150 (43.2 - 51.5%) -- 7.4%
56 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 152-180 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
Golisopods defense is already HUGE
Also better coverage options are Pin Missile (for FEAR and leechseed stallers) and Poison Jab (for whimsi and the like)
 
Pluff usually runs infestation over protect, and breloom (while being close to irrelevant in the tier) benefits way more by running moves like mach punch over protect.
But yes, Whimsicott just beats banded golisopod

Also, wasn't the default golisopod set AV?
That was just the first set that I had posted, and from my experience the best. you take the loss against jumpluff in exchange for a win against zard y
 
Don’t Use: Lovely Kiss/1 Attack Smeargle

Smeargle @ Normalium Z
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid/Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Imprison
- Transform
- Lovely Kiss/Attack

Lovely Kiss is there to 50/50 Grass types and try to cheese faster mons with Z-Lovely Kiss. But having most of your favorable matchups only being 2/3 sucks. The attacking move is there just for Taunt, but it doesn’t even reliably beat fast Taunt users and you already have a chance against slow ones. Also, the attack’s not doing much damage off a 20 base attacking stat.

Use: Substitute Smeargle

Smeargle @ Normalium Z
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Imprison
- Transform

Substitute turns you’re standard 2/3 matchup into a 242/243 matchup by using Spore when you can, subbing on sleeping targets, and using Imprison and Z-Transform to force a Struggle. This reliability really helps Smeargle. Of course, priority can make that lower. Also Dragon Dance makes a matchup 8/9. You still beat slow Taunt users 2/3 of the time by just not subbing. Overall, this is a much more consistent and well-rounded set.
 
Smeargle @ Normalium Z
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Imprison
- Transform

Don't use normalium Z smeargle.
Why:
While Z-Transform does indeed heal you up to full, you usually won't be dying to the opponent's struggle in most situations.
Instead, I believe it's a better idea solidifying your matchup against your bad matchups.

Smeargle @ Quick Claw
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Imprison
- Transform

Use Quick Claw
Why?
It essentially gives you a 20% chance of winning matchups that you usually lost, apart from that, it's essentially the same set.
 

stableprince569

formerly SilvioGiovanna
Smeargle @ Normalium Z
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Imprison
- Transform

Don't use normalium Z smeargle.
Why:
While Z-Transform does indeed heal you up to full, you usually won't be dying to the opponent's struggle in most situations.
Instead, I believe it's a better idea solidifying your matchup against your bad matchups.

Smeargle @ Quick Claw
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Imprison
- Transform

Use Quick Claw
Why?
It essentially gives you a 20% chance of winning matchups that you usually lost, apart from that, it's essentially the same set.
Z transform also allows you to bypass taunt, beating things like Mega Mawile and Mega Gyarados, very prominent threats in the metagame, more reliably. Also, the general best course of action when building is solidifying matchups as much as possible, not going for gimmicks that only work 20% of the time. That's why grass whistle bright powder Whimsicott isn't viable, despite giving a 70% chance of beating almost every Pokemon in the entire meta.
 
Don't use earthquake on Mega Metagross and Slaking

184557
184556

Metagross-Mega:
Earthquake does 100 damage, while Stomping Tantrum does 75.
Under Tough Claws, Stomping Tantrum will boost to 97.5 and when activated, will do 195, outpowering Meteor Mash. Easy ways this can be activated: Flinching via fake out or otherwise, meteor mash misses, waking up from sleep, etc. Protect will not activate this, but honestly you weren't going to win against that aegislash anyway.

Slaking:
Slaking's truant will activate stomping tantrum turns 3 and onwards - just not turn one. This is extremely useful for stall slaking and semi stall slakings.

Both have 16 PP, but ST makes contact and wont hit dig so be careful.
 

Jocus

Banned deucer.
Do not use Twinkle Tackle Donphan.

Donphan @ Fairium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Bulldoze / Counter / Head Smash / Rock Tomb / other filler move

Why it's bad: While at first glance Fairium Z might seem like a good option to lure and defeat Dragon- and Dark-types like Mega Gyarados and Kommo-o, it sacrifices important matchups as opposed to better lure sets. In particular, the matchup against Mega Gyarados is inconsistent due to the choice whether to Mega Evolve or not impacting whether Twinkle Tackle is effective or not. Additionally, matchups against Pokemon that are weak to Fairy like Haxorus are easily won by Donphan's standard sets (Choice Band and Groundium Z), so there's no need to use Fairium Z to counter them.

Instead use: Endeavor Donphan (set borrowed from MaceMaster)

Donphan @ Groundium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Substitute
- Endeavor

This set deviates from the standard Groundium Z set less and thus has better matchups aligned more precisely with said set. Against Kommo-o, expect a Clangorous Soulblaze and use Endeavor turn one; follow with Ice Shard turn two to defeat Kommo-o. Against Mega Gyarados, use Endeavor turn one expecting Mega Evolution and Waterfall; after you are barely finished by the Waterfall, use Ice Shard in turn to finish off Mega Gyarados. Play similarly against Pokemon that this set has a chance to lure like Primarina. Remember that if your opponent is wary of your plans, he can play around your strategies by alternative moves such as using Dragon Dance on Mega Gyarados turn one and using Aqua Jet on Primarina similarly. Meanwhile, maximum Attack investment allows Donphan to hit as hard as possible in other matchups, while 168 Def EVs guarantees that it survives a Waterfall from Mega Gyarados:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Donphan: 242-288 (83.4 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The remaining EVs are placed in Speed for Donphan to outspeed miscellaneous threats like the aforementioned Primarina. 0 HP IVs reduce the amount of HP Magearna gains from Pain Split.

If you are really intent on defeating Kommo-O, you can use a Choice Band set with Play Rough.

Disclaimer: Jocus is not responsible if hax ruins your game while you follow his advice.
 

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