Resource DOU Analysis Discussion Thread - Full Dex in OP!

Memoric

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Hey guys :)!

This thread will be primarily for discussion of making a change to an uploaded analysis, making a case for a Pokemon to have an analysis, or possibly giving a Pokemon a revamp. You may also ask questions about any analysis here. This may include the following:
  • Possibly adding or updating a set
  • Changing or adding slashes to moves
  • Revamping an analysis to better fit the metagame
As long as what you're going to say entails something about the analysis themselves, you should probably post here!

When making a case for a Pokemon that's not listed in the reservations thread, make sure that it: a) isn’t horrible; b) isn’t actually outclassed c) actually has a decent enough use. There will be times that we miss on a Pokemon in the reservations thread; an example of this from last generation would be Virizion. If you think a Pokemon is worth it, post here! But make sure to have some backing to your claims.

If you need help with your analysis in general, feel free to ask QC members by going to the Smogon Doubles room in PS!, or finding them on the public Doubles Discord Server. Note that members of the team may be busy, so posting here can let every one of us see any thoughts and ideas.

Note: This is not the thread for reserving analyses! Go to this thread instead. Also, discussion about analyses still being written up should go to their respective threads (If you're making a suggestion to Zapdos and it's still being written up, post in its thread)!

Another note: If a change you're going to suggest is merely fixing wording, typos, or the like, post in the Small Objective Changes thread instead.

On another note, this thread will be heavily moderated. Irrelevant posts will be deleted and repeat offenders will be infracted.

Relevant links:
List of Pokemon with completed Doubles analyses (64 as of June 14, 2019):
 
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Oricorio needs an analysis. It's ability Dancer is primarily a doubles ability, and its very popular in doubles, along-side a quiver dancer. Ribombee should get one to. It has a wide support movepool, including its signature move pollen puff, which can damage opponents and heal allies.
 
Oricorio needs an analysis. It's ability Dancer is primarily a doubles ability, and its very popular in doubles, along-side a quiver dancer. Ribombee should get one to. It has a wide support movepool, including its signature move pollen puff, which can damage opponents and heal allies.
oricorio and ribombee are both trash.
oricorio is gimmicky, and is stopped by anything with rock slide or taunt, both of which are incredibly common moves.
ribombee is also gimmicky, with mediocre typing and no offensive presence.
 
oricorio and ribombee are both trash.
oricorio is gimmicky, and is stopped by anything with rock slide or taunt, both of which are incredibly common moves.
ribombee is also gimmicky, with mediocre typing and no offensive presence.
I disagree. Ribombee's great support movepool allows you to run life orb oricorio fairly well, and both are very speedy compared to the rest of gen 7. In fact, ribombee's base speed is 124 if I remember correctly.
Either way, it's subjective.
 
I disagree. Ribombee's great support movepool allows you to run life orb oricorio fairly well, and both are very speedy compared to the rest of gen 7. In fact, ribombee's base speed is 124 if I remember correctly.
Either way, it's subjective.
By looking at your PS account and your replays, I can tell you're talking in the perspective of a "low ladder-er" and you haven't got much success at using them either. No offense, but experienced and competitive players have no problem against the "Dancer Gimmick". Its strategy is very predictable and easily counterable. It also leaves no room for flexibility in competitive play, meaning if the strategy fails, then Game Over. Also, it's best not to take advice from bad Youtubers or Youtubers who plays in another format for granted. Instead, you should ask in our chatroom (Smogon Doubles) to truly understand what's good in the current metagame. GL
 

Memoric

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Oricorio needs an analysis. It's ability Dancer is primarily a doubles ability, and its very popular in doubles, along-side a quiver dancer. Ribombee should get one to. It has a wide support movepool, including its signature move pollen puff, which can damage opponents and heal allies.
Uh, no. Both aren't really viable and are gimmicks at best, Oricorio essentially reliant on other Pokemon to have an actual use on teams and Ribombee relegated to only a mediocre Baton Passing role, hardly a necessity. They can't really hold up to the metagame outside of the gimmicks they do and are poor pokemon outside of them.
 

Bughouse

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Uh, no. Both aren't really viable and are gimmicks at best, Oricorio essentially reliant on other Pokemon to have an actual use on teams and Ribombee relegated to only a mediocre Baton Passing role, hardly a necessity. They can't really hold up to the metagame outside of the gimmicks they do and are poor pokemon outside of them.
Rimbombee is not best used for baton passing, fyi. It would be for Pollen Puff, which is a Heal Pulse that if you redirect it becomes a base 90 Special Attack off of Rimbombee's decent base 95 Special Attack. And its 124 speed makes this support relatively hard to outpace. A very, very small niche to be sure and still not a priority analysis until like 80+ other ones are done unless someone makes a team to prove this thing can actually work. It also gets Speed Swap, which is a further sort-of useful gimmick.

But meh Heal Pulse can be a cool move and getting around redirection (and hitting redirectors neutrally, even) makes it that much more reliable. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually gets a set when DOU C&C runs out of things to do.
 

Memoric

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Baton Bassing is the one actual "decent" thing it does and is something one has to "respect" when fighting it on the (lower) ladder. The attack / healing move is cute and all but at the end of the day it's still a piss-weak attacker and a mediocre-ish momentum sucking supporter; the Baton Passing gig can actually end up with something that can endgame, at the very least. I don't see us making an analysis for Ribombee soon... or ever; we certainly won't make analyses even for badmons even after we finish everything up.
 

Memoric

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is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Analyses to now be written up after the first QC check!

We are not doing bullet point analyses anymore and are instead going straight to write-ups. The number of checks needed (2) is still the same. However, after the first QC check, an analysis now needs to be written up before the second QC check is made.

Test Bot # and Matame, please wait on a quick go-ahead from one of us before writing your analyses up in order to make sure that whatever you have is good; editing after writing up an analyses can be a somewhat taxing process, after all! Haruno, while you may have already maxed on QC checks, please still wait on a go-ahead from one of us before sending it to GP.
 

talkingtree

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Jirachi is now banned from Doubles OU!

As such, please remove all mentions of it from any analyses you may be working on. I don't want to have to go through and tell you all individually.
 

talkingtree

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Doubles Captain
Kangaskhanite is now banned from Doubles OU!

As such, please remove all mentions of it from any analyses you may be working on. I don't want to have to go through and tell you all individually.
 

talkingtree

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Doubles Captain
It's been a while since anything was posted here, but DOU C&C is ready for USUM! Stakataka, Kartana, Necrozma, and Blacephalon are all now up for reservation, and some SM analyses that have gotten outdated were added to the list as well. If you've been wanting to get into analysis writing but never got around to it, now's a great time to start!
 
I wanted to list here the viable mons which have not yet analyzes in Doubles: Chansey, Politoed, Suicune, Manectric-Mega, Togekiss, Rotom-Wash, Cresselia, Volcarona, Tornadus-I, Incineroar and Kommo-o.

Out of curiosity, I also compared VRs with usage statistics and there are contradictory and interesting situations:
• we have the mons who already have an analysis but have been removed from the VRs (which are no longer viable a priori): Ninetales-Alola, Marowak-Alola, Ludicolo, Torkoal, Latios, Abomasnow-Mega, Shaymin-Sky, Hydreigon, Terrakion, Landorus-I and Necrozma. This does not mean that you have to delete their analysis (which is if they become viable again);
• we have unviable mons that have only one proposed moveset: Venusaur-Mega, Persian-Alola, Staraptor, Porygon-Z, Thundurus-I and Thundurus-T.

But it's not the most interesting. I looked at all the uses in 1630 since march (after the Snorlax meta) and we find mons that are not viable apparently but are often above the famous 3.41% of uses: Arcanine, Shuckle, Mawile-Mega, Gastrodon, Weavile, Whimsicott, Oranguru, Torkoal, Togedemaru and Mimikyu (it's always the sames and they are numerous). Unless the DOU players like to play gimmick, I doubt that these ten mons are used for anything (there is necessarily a reason for them to be as high in the statistics). Should we consider creating an analysis for these mons?

Last question: since the DUber and the DUU are permanent formats on Showdown (at the same level as the Monotype, the BSS and the BH), will it ever have analyzes for playable mons in these tiers? (Groudon or M-Charizard X for example)?
 
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talkingtree

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Doubles Captain
All the Pokemon in your first list are already in the reservations thread, the sets there are just so that someone can get a quick idea of what is likely before we've finished the analysis.

The Pokemon with analyses and no place on the VR got analyses while they were on the VR, and the ones with a suggested set but no analysis were at one point on the VR and thus needed some sort of placeholder while we waited for the analysis to go up. Since it's against policy to delete analyses, we're just going to leave those up, and when someone on QC gets the chance, we'll rewrite them to fix potential overselling issues.

Since we're already quite behind on analyses, I currently have no plans to give analyses to Pokemon that are DOU by usage but largely unviable. Singles tiers have an obligation to do so in order to ensure that every Pokemon has at least one analysis in a usage-based tier, but I don't think the same goes for Doubles. If all the currently up analyses are completed and we're looking for something else to do, I could see some of these getting analyses at some point, but that's pretty far down the road.

DUbers and DUU have *significantly* smaller playerbases than the metagames you listed, so there are currently no plans to give analyses for those formats. The closest we'll get for now are n10sit's linked movesets in the DUU thread.

Thanks for your interest in DOU analyses, if you want to try your hand at writing we have plenty available (as you noted yourself).
 

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